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update, reboot required?

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  update, reboot required? Lee <ler762@gmail.com> - 2022-03-19 03:40 +0100
    Re: update, reboot required? Greg Wooledge <greg@wooledge.org> - 2022-03-19 03:40 +0100
      Re: update, reboot required? Lee <ler762@gmail.com> - 2022-03-19 03:50 +0100
        Re: update, reboot required? David Christensen <dpchrist@holgerdanske.com> - 2022-03-19 05:30 +0100
        Re: update, reboot required? Eduardo M KALINOWSKI <eduardo@kalinowski.com.br> - 2022-03-19 12:20 +0100
          Re: update, reboot required? l0f4r0@tuta.io - 2022-03-19 12:50 +0100
      Re: update, reboot required? Nicholas Geovanis <nickgeovanis@gmail.com> - 2022-03-19 16:10 +0100
        Re: update, reboot required? Greg Wooledge <greg@wooledge.org> - 2022-03-19 16:20 +0100
    Re: update, reboot required? piorunz <piorunz@gmx.com> - 2022-03-19 06:00 +0100
      Re: update, reboot required? Toni Mas Soler <antomassol@gmail.com> - 2022-03-19 11:00 +0100
        Re: update, reboot required? Greg Wooledge <greg@wooledge.org> - 2022-03-19 14:30 +0100
          Re: update, reboot required? Cindy Sue Causey <butterflybytes@gmail.com> - 2022-03-19 15:20 +0100
      Re: update, reboot required? songbird <songbird@anthive.com> - 2022-03-19 14:20 +0100
        Re: update, reboot required? piorunz <piorunz@gmx.com> - 2022-03-19 14:40 +0100
          Re: update, reboot required? Peter Ehlert <pb21a@sdi-baja.com> - 2022-03-19 15:40 +0100
            Re: update, reboot required? Lee <ler762@gmail.com> - 2022-03-19 21:30 +0100
            Re: update, reboot required? Charles Curley <charlescurley@charlescurley.com> - 2022-03-19 22:40 +0100
      Re: update, reboot required? Lee <ler762@gmail.com> - 2022-03-19 21:10 +0100

#246438 — update, reboot required?

How to tell if I need to reboot the machine after updating the software?

If it makes a difference, 99.99% of the time I'm using Synaptic
Package Manager to do the updates and I've never seen any kind of
notice that a reboot is needed to start using the newly installed
software.

Thanks
Lee

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#246440

On Fri, Mar 18, 2022 at 10:32:49PM -0400, Lee wrote:
> How to tell if I need to reboot the machine after updating the software?

Reboots are needed if you got a new kernel, or new firmware, or new
microcode, or a new version of the dbus package (because dbus cannot
be restarted).

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#246441

On 3/18/22, Greg Wooledge <greg@wooledge.org> wrote:
> On Fri, Mar 18, 2022 at 10:32:49PM -0400, Lee wrote:
>> How to tell if I need to reboot the machine after updating the software?
>
> Reboots are needed if you got a new kernel, or new firmware, or new
> microcode, or a new version of the dbus package (because dbus cannot
> be restarted).

I guessed that much :)  I just updated a laptop that had been turned
off for a while & noticed it got a new vmlinuz-5.10.0-12-amd64 .. and
after the update uname -a still showed 5.10.0-10, so it was pretty
clear that a reboot was needed.

But the chances of me realizing that something is a dbus package or
firmware or pretty much anything else isn't something I'd bet on.  So
it would be nice if there was some program that would just say that I
needed to reboot  .. even better would be if Synaptic said so right
after the update process finished.

Thanks
Lee

>
>

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#246442

On 3/18/22 19:47, Lee wrote:
> On 3/18/22, Greg Wooledge <greg@wooledge.org> wrote:
>> On Fri, Mar 18, 2022 at 10:32:49PM -0400, Lee wrote:
>>> How to tell if I need to reboot the machine after updating the software?
>>
>> Reboots are needed if you got a new kernel, or new firmware, or new
>> microcode, or a new version of the dbus package (because dbus cannot
>> be restarted).
> 
> I guessed that much :)  I just updated a laptop that had been turned
> off for a while & noticed it got a new vmlinuz-5.10.0-12-amd64 .. and
> after the update uname -a still showed 5.10.0-10, so it was pretty
> clear that a reboot was needed.
> 
> But the chances of me realizing that something is a dbus package or
> firmware or pretty much anything else isn't something I'd bet on.  So
> it would be nice if there was some program that would just say that I
> needed to reboot  .. even better would be if Synaptic said so right
> after the update process finished.
> 
> Thanks
> Lee


I reboot after updating/ upgrading as a matter of habit on Debian, 
FreeBSD, and Windows (macOS reboots by itself).


David

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#246450

On 18/03/2022 23:47, Lee wrote:
> So
> it would be nice if there was some program that would just say that I
> needed to reboot

The needrestart package will offer to restart services affected when 
there'a a library update, and it also warns you when the kernel has been 
udpated (and a reboot is necessary). It just doesn't warn you about 
microcode updates, AFAIK.


-- 
On-line, adj.:
	The idea that a human being should always be accessible to a computer.

Eduardo M KALINOWSKI
eduardo@kalinowski.com.br

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#246451

Hi,

19 mars 2022, 12:16 de eduardo@kalinowski.com.br:

> The needrestart package will offer to restart services affected when there'a a library update, and it also warns you when the kernel has been udpated (and a reboot is necessary). It just doesn't warn you about microcode updates, AFAIK.
>
Advanced mode indicates if the processor microcode seems to be up-to-date or not.
See below:

# needrestart -m a
Scanning processes...                                                                                                                                                                                             
Scanning processor microcode...                                                                                                                                                                                   
Scanning linux images...                                                                                                                                                                                          

Running kernel seems to be up-to-date.

The processor microcode seems to be up-to-date.

No services need to be restarted.

No containers need to be restarted.

No user sessions are running outdated binaries.

Best regards,
l0f4r0

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#246462

[Multipart message — attachments visible in raw view] — view raw

On Fri, Mar 18, 2022 at 9:35 PM Greg Wooledge <greg@wooledge.org> wrote:

> On Fri, Mar 18, 2022 at 10:32:49PM -0400, Lee wrote:
> > How to tell if I need to reboot the machine after updating the software?
>
> Reboots are needed if you got a new kernel, or new firmware, or new
> microcode, or a new version of the dbus package (because dbus cannot
> be restarted).
>

And if there was an upgrade to a major C/C++ library, you may find a
message that
running processes using those libraries will be running on the older
library versions.
Only newly started processes invoke the new versions. So if a library bug
is causing you
a current problem, init itself or kernel-space code may need to be
reloaded. So a reboot.

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#246464

On Sat, Mar 19, 2022 at 10:04:59AM -0500, Nicholas Geovanis wrote:
> On Fri, Mar 18, 2022 at 9:35 PM Greg Wooledge <greg@wooledge.org> wrote:
> 
> > On Fri, Mar 18, 2022 at 10:32:49PM -0400, Lee wrote:
> > > How to tell if I need to reboot the machine after updating the software?
> >
> > Reboots are needed if you got a new kernel, or new firmware, or new
> > microcode, or a new version of the dbus package (because dbus cannot
> > be restarted).
> >
> 
> And if there was an upgrade to a major C/C++ library, you may find a
> message that
> running processes using those libraries will be running on the older
> library versions.

Yes.  That's why apt will offer to restart services for you.

> Only newly started processes invoke the new versions. So if a library bug
> is causing you
> a current problem, init itself or kernel-space code may need to be
> reloaded. So a reboot.

Huh?  No, you don't need to reboot to restart these processes.  Unless
one of them happens to be dbus.

You *can* reboot, if you want.  If you're unsure, that's always the
safest choice.

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#246444

On 19/03/2022 02:32, Lee wrote:
> How to tell if I need to reboot the machine after updating the software?

install "needrestart" package.

Description: needrestart checks which daemons need to be restarted after
library upgrades.
  It is inspired by checkrestart from the debian-goodies package.

  Features:
   - supports (but does not require) systemd
   - binary blacklisting (i.e. display managers)
   - tries to detect required restarts of interpreter based daemons
     (supports Java, Perl, Python, Ruby)
   - tries to detect required restarts of containers (docker, LXC)
   - tries to detect pending kernel upgrades
   - tries to detect pending microcode upgrades for Intel CPUs
   - could be used as nagios check_command
   - fully integrated into apt/dpkg using hooks

--
With kindest regards, Piotr.

⢀⣴⠾⠻⢶⣦⠀
⣾⠁⢠⠒⠀⣿⡁ Debian - The universal operating system
⢿⡄⠘⠷⠚⠋⠀ https://www.debian.org/
⠈⠳⣄⠀⠀⠀⠀

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#246448

I restart Dbus from time to time. Actually, I stop Dbus if i don't
need, that is when I do not use X (almost allways).
Do you mean my action is not effective?


Toni Mas

Missatge de piorunz <piorunz@gmx.com> del dia ds., 19 de març 2022 a les 5:55:
>
> On 19/03/2022 02:32, Lee wrote:
> > How to tell if I need to reboot the machine after updating the software?
>
> install "needrestart" package.
>
> Description: needrestart checks which daemons need to be restarted after
> library upgrades.
>   It is inspired by checkrestart from the debian-goodies package.
>
>   Features:
>    - supports (but does not require) systemd
>    - binary blacklisting (i.e. display managers)
>    - tries to detect required restarts of interpreter based daemons
>      (supports Java, Perl, Python, Ruby)
>    - tries to detect required restarts of containers (docker, LXC)
>    - tries to detect pending kernel upgrades
>    - tries to detect pending microcode upgrades for Intel CPUs
>    - could be used as nagios check_command
>    - fully integrated into apt/dpkg using hooks
>
> --
> With kindest regards, Piotr.
>
> ⢀⣴⠾⠻⢶⣦⠀
> ⣾⠁⢠⠒⠀⣿⡁ Debian - The universal operating system
> ⢿⡄⠘⠷⠚⠋⠀ https://www.debian.org/
> ⠈⠳⣄⠀⠀⠀⠀
>

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#246458

On Sat, Mar 19, 2022 at 10:55:03AM +0100, Toni Mas Soler wrote:
> I restart Dbus from time to time. Actually, I stop Dbus if i don't
> need, that is when I do not use X (almost allways).
> Do you mean my action is not effective?

The fact that you're "almost always" not using X is probably relevant
here.

See <https://www.reddit.com/r/linuxquestions/comments/8hy3tu/how_to_restart_the_dbusdaemon_without_a_reboot/>
for some discussion.  Or just google "cannot restart dbus" as I did
to find many more such discussions.

My own knowledge of the topic came mainly from reading the output
of apt-get as it was upgrading dbus, and telling me that I would have
to reboot, because it can't restart dbus by itself.

I don't know why other people aren't reading that output.

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#246460

On 3/19/22, Greg Wooledge <greg@wooledge.org> wrote:
> On Sat, Mar 19, 2022 at 10:55:03AM +0100, Toni Mas Soler wrote:
>> I restart Dbus from time to time. Actually, I stop Dbus if i don't
>> need, that is when I do not use X (almost allways).
>> Do you mean my action is not effective?
>
> The fact that you're "almost always" not using X is probably relevant
> here.
>
> See
> <https://www.reddit.com/r/linuxquestions/comments/8hy3tu/how_to_restart_the_dbusdaemon_without_a_reboot/>
> for some discussion.  Or just google "cannot restart dbus" as I did
> to find many more such discussions.
>
> My own knowledge of the topic came mainly from reading the output
> of apt-get as it was upgrading dbus, and telling me that I would have
> to reboot, because it can't restart dbus by itself.
>
> I don't know why other people aren't reading that output.


I've wondered that same thing as I watch messages scroll by (when I
happen to have not looked away from the terminal). Some upgrades have
all kinds of advisories tucked into that scrolling that rips by.

Unattended upgrades always come to mind as a place for where those
messages would go unseen. It has also come to mind that users have
admin emails sent to them as a potential remedy. It's on my to-do to
play around with those emails to see if that catches those upgrade
messages..

PS I've seen those dbus ones rip by. Seems like I played with
restarting something related in just the last couple weeks. I don't
remember the experience feeling very successful. :D

Cindy :)
-- 
Talking Rock, Pickens County, Georgia, USA
* runs with birdseed *

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#246457

piorunz wrote:
> On 19/03/2022 02:32, Lee wrote:
>> How to tell if I need to reboot the machine after updating the software?
>
> install "needrestart" package.
>
> Description: needrestart checks which daemons need to be restarted after
> library upgrades.
>   It is inspired by checkrestart from the debian-goodies package.
>
>   Features:
>    - supports (but does not require) systemd
>    - binary blacklisting (i.e. display managers)
>    - tries to detect required restarts of interpreter based daemons
>      (supports Java, Perl, Python, Ruby)
>    - tries to detect required restarts of containers (docker, LXC)
>    - tries to detect pending kernel upgrades
>    - tries to detect pending microcode upgrades for Intel CPUs
>    - could be used as nagios check_command
>    - fully integrated into apt/dpkg using hooks


  there is also package debian-goodies which has the
command checkrestart.  i'm not sure which is better.


  songbird

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#246459

On 19/03/2022 10:02, songbird wrote:

>    there is also package debian-goodies which has the
> command checkrestart.  i'm not sure which is better.
>
>
>    songbird

All I know is that needrestart works for me, it correctly prompts for
computer reboot after kernel upgrade; and offers to restart various
services if reboot is not required.

--
With kindest regards, Piotr.

⢀⣴⠾⠻⢶⣦⠀
⣾⠁⢠⠒⠀⣿⡁ Debian - The universal operating system
⢿⡄⠘⠷⠚⠋⠀ https://www.debian.org/
⠈⠳⣄⠀⠀⠀⠀

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#246461

On 3/19/22 06:32, piorunz wrote:
> On 19/03/2022 10:02, songbird wrote:
>
>>    there is also package debian-goodies which has the
>> command checkrestart.  i'm not sure which is better.
>>
>>
>>    songbird
>
> All I know is that needrestart works for me, it correctly prompts for
> computer reboot after kernel upgrade; and offers to restart various
> services if reboot is not required.

thanks.

I now have both needrestart and needrestart-session installed.

Question: do either run in the background?

>
> -- 
> With kindest regards, Piotr.
>
> ⢀⣴⠾⠻⢶⣦⠀
> ⣾⠁⢠⠒⠀⣿⡁ Debian - The universal operating system
> ⢿⡄⠘⠷⠚⠋⠀ https://www.debian.org/
> ⠈⠳⣄⠀⠀⠀⠀
>
>

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#246472

On 3/19/22, Peter Ehlert wrote:
>
> On 3/19/22 06:32, piorunz wrote:
>> On 19/03/2022 10:02, songbird wrote:
>>
>>>    there is also package debian-goodies which has the
>>> command checkrestart.  i'm not sure which is better.
>>>
>>
>> All I know is that needrestart works for me, it correctly prompts for
>> computer reboot after kernel upgrade; and offers to restart various
>> services if reboot is not required.
>
> thanks.
>
> I now have both needrestart and needrestart-session installed.
>
> Question: do either run in the background?

Seems like that isn't necessary:
  https://github.com/liske/needrestart
  There are some hook scripts in the ex/ directory (to be used with
apt and dpkg.
  The scripts will call needrestart after any package installation/upgrades.

Regards,
Lee

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#246473

On Sat, 19 Mar 2022 07:31:04 -0700
Peter Ehlert <pb21a@sdi-baja.com> wrote:

> I now have both needrestart and needrestart-session installed.
> 
> Question: do either run in the background?

Apt calls needrestart, so it isn't necessary to run it in the
background.

Unattended upgrades will inform you of which processes it restarted,
which it did not restart, and whether a reboot is required. I have it
set a reboot on some of my machines, but not on machines that have
encrypted storage which require a passphrase to boot.

-- 
Does anybody read signatures any more?

https://charlescurley.com
https://charlescurley.com/blog/

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#246470

On 3/19/22, piorunz wrote:
> On 19/03/2022 02:32, Lee wrote:
>> How to tell if I need to reboot the machine after updating the software?
>
> install "needrestart" package.
>
> Description: needrestart checks which daemons need to be restarted after
> library upgrades.
>   It is inspired by checkrestart from the debian-goodies package.

Yes!  Thank you!!

It seems to me that "checks which daemons need to be restarted
(needrestart)" won't catch as much as "check which processes need to
be restarted (checkrestart)" so I'll try both but I'm probably going
with checkrestart

Thanks again
Lee

>
>   Features:
>    - supports (but does not require) systemd
>    - binary blacklisting (i.e. display managers)
>    - tries to detect required restarts of interpreter based daemons
>      (supports Java, Perl, Python, Ruby)
>    - tries to detect required restarts of containers (docker, LXC)
>    - tries to detect pending kernel upgrades
>    - tries to detect pending microcode upgrades for Intel CPUs
>    - could be used as nagios check_command
>    - fully integrated into apt/dpkg using hooks
>
> --
> With kindest regards, Piotr.
>
> ⢀⣴⠾⠻⢶⣦⠀
> ⣾⠁⢠⠒⠀⣿⡁ Debian - The universal operating system
> ⢿⡄⠘⠷⠚⠋⠀ https://www.debian.org/
> ⠈⠳⣄⠀⠀⠀⠀
>
>

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