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LXQT desktop environment hangs?

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  LXQT desktop environment hangs? kaye n <guikaye@gmail.com> - 2021-10-29 14:30 +0200
    Re: LXQT desktop environment hangs? kaye n <guikaye@gmail.com> - 2021-10-29 15:00 +0200
      choice of web browsers Dan Ritter <dsr@randomstring.org> - 2021-10-29 15:30 +0200
        Re: choice of web browsers "Roy J. Tellason, Sr." <roy@rtellason.com> - 2021-10-29 19:10 +0200
        Re: choice of web browsers Christian Britz <cbritz@t-online.de> - 2021-10-29 19:20 +0200
        Re: choice of web browsers riveravaldez <riveravaldezmail@gmail.com> - 2021-10-31 05:40 +0100
          Re: choice of web browsers songbird <songbird@anthive.com> - 2021-11-01 02:20 +0100
      Re: LXQT desktop environment hangs? "Andrew M.A. Cater" <amacater@einval.com> - 2021-10-29 16:00 +0200
        Re: LXQT desktop environment hangs? Christian Britz <cbritz@t-online.de> - 2021-10-29 19:30 +0200
          Netsurf Christian Britz <cbritz@t-online.de> - 2021-10-29 19:30 +0200
            Re: Netsurf harryweaver@tutanota.com - 2021-10-29 21:00 +0200
      Re: LXQT desktop environment hangs? David Wright <deblis@lionunicorn.co.uk> - 2021-10-29 16:50 +0200
        Re: LXQT desktop environment hangs? kaye n <guikaye@gmail.com> - 2021-10-31 14:30 +0100
          Re: LXQT desktop environment hangs? piorunz <piorunz@gmx.com> - 2021-10-31 17:50 +0100
    Re: LXQT desktop environment hangs? "Andrew M.A. Cater" <amacater@einval.com> - 2021-10-29 15:00 +0200
    Re: LXQT desktop environment hangs? Dan Ritter <dsr@randomstring.org> - 2021-10-29 15:00 +0200
      Re: LXQT desktop environment hangs? kaye n <guikaye@gmail.com> - 2021-10-29 15:00 +0200
        Re: LXQT desktop environment hangs? Eric S Fraga <e.fraga@ucl.ac.uk> - 2021-10-29 16:00 +0200
          Re: LXQT desktop environment hangs? piorunz <piorunz@gmx.com> - 2021-10-31 10:20 +0100
            Re: LXQT desktop environment hangs? Eric S Fraga <e.fraga@ucl.ac.uk> - 2021-11-01 09:00 +0100
              Re: LXQT desktop environment hangs? piorunz <piorunz@gmx.com> - 2021-11-01 11:40 +0100
                Re: LXQT desktop environment hangs? Tixy <tixy@yxit.co.uk> - 2021-11-01 14:20 +0100
                  Re: LXQT desktop environment hangs? piorunz <piorunz@gmx.com> - 2021-11-01 15:00 +0100
                Re: LXQT desktop environment hangs? Eric S Fraga <e.fraga@ucl.ac.uk> - 2021-11-01 15:10 +0100
                  Re: LXQT desktop environment hangs? piorunz <piorunz@gmx.com> - 2021-11-01 16:00 +0100
                    Re: LXQT desktop environment hangs? Eric S Fraga <e.fraga@ucl.ac.uk> - 2021-11-01 18:00 +0100
              Re: LXQT desktop environment hangs? Andrei POPESCU <andreimpopescu@gmail.com> - 2021-12-10 12:30 +0100
                Re: LXQT desktop environment hangs? Eric S Fraga <e.fraga@ucl.ac.uk> - 2021-12-13 12:50 +0100
                  Re: LXQT desktop environment hangs? Andrei POPESCU <andreimpopescu@gmail.com> - 2021-12-14 09:20 +0100
                    Re: LXQT desktop environment hangs? Eric S Fraga <e.fraga@ucl.ac.uk> - 2021-12-14 12:20 +0100
        Re: LXQT desktop environment hangs? piorunz <piorunz@gmx.com> - 2021-10-31 10:30 +0100
    Re: LXQT desktop environment hangs? Linux-Fan <Ma_Sys.ma@web.de> - 2021-10-29 16:40 +0200
      Re: LXQT desktop environment hangs? Linux-Fan <Ma_Sys.ma@web.de> - 2021-11-01 00:40 +0100

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#241823

On 01/11/2021 07:58, Eric S Fraga wrote:
> On Sunday, 31 Oct 2021 at 09:17, piorunz wrote:
>> Nah. Problem is your computer, not Firefox.
>
> Rather dismissive?
>
> Everything else on this "slow" computer (yes, it's old but has 4
> dual-core Intel(R) Xeon(R) CPU E5-1620 v2 @ 3.70GHz processors and 32 GB
> RAM) works just fine otherwise.  Drive and memory all test fine.
>
> Only Firefox causes me problems if I let it run for a long time.  My
> system is up 24/7.
>
> YMMV, of course, and that's great for you.  But don't dismiss other
> people's experiences so out of hand please.

Sorry if you felt offended. But you said yourself "It can slow the whole
system down in my experience."

No single application should slow down entire system with 32GB of RAM, 2
CPUs and multiple threads, unless something is misconfigured or
suboptimal, like GPU driver for example. I have 64GB of ECC RAM in this
machine, Firefox ESR didn't crashed even once since I installed
Bullseye, I never close it. I use Radeon card with open source driver.
GPU has a big effect on browsers, because they use hardware acceleration.
What GPU you have?


--
With kindest regards, Piotr.

⢀⣴⠾⠻⢶⣦⠀
⣾⠁⢠⠒⠀⣿⡁ Debian - The universal operating system
⢿⡄⠘⠷⠚⠋⠀ https://www.debian.org
⠈⠳⣄⠀⠀⠀⠀

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#241824

On Mon, 2021-11-01 at 10:38 +0000, piorunz wrote:
> No single application should slow down entire system with 32GB of RAM, 2
> CPUs and multiple threads, unless something is misconfigured...

Sure it can, depends on how many processes and threads the application
uses. E.g. transcoding a video will quite happily eat most of the time
on all my CPUs, as will compiling a large program. And whilst I have no
performance problems with Firefox, myself, I see that it's config on my
machine is set to use 8 process by default, and sure enough there's
lot's of processes spawned when opening several tabs (which I don't
normally do). If I then turn off the ad blocker and enable javascript,
then it seems to use up to 100% of a single CPU total when doing
'nothing'. (Presumably that's crap and malicious java script doing
whatever it does.)

-- 
Tixy

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#241825

On 01/11/2021 13:14, Tixy wrote:
> Sure it can, depends on how many processes and threads the application
> uses. E.g. transcoding a video will quite happily eat most of the time
> on all my CPUs

In that case just decrease Firefox priority using htop when already
running, or nice during starting Firefox so CPU priority setting is
inherited to it's children processes. Even set priority to idle. That
way, Firefox eating all CPU time will not have any impact on other
programs running in your machine.

Everything can be sorted out. Even fact that Firefox spawns dozens of
processes as you add more tabs - just disable multiprocess spawning in
Firefox settings. Another proof that Firefox can be running for months
without any problem - problem it always in hardware or in the user not
being aware of configuration options available.

--
With kindest regards, Piotr.

⢀⣴⠾⠻⢶⣦⠀
⣾⠁⢠⠒⠀⣿⡁ Debian - The universal operating system
⢿⡄⠘⠷⠚⠋⠀ https://www.debian.org
⠈⠳⣄⠀⠀⠀⠀

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#241826

On Monday,  1 Nov 2021 at 10:38, piorunz wrote:
> Sorry if you felt offended. 

Not offended! :-)

> No single application should slow down entire system with 32GB of RAM, 2

Agreed, it shouldn't.  But my experience is that it does.  Why?  I don't
know.

Your comment about the GPU driver is helpful as I probably don't have
the optimum graphics card settings (I do very little graphical work:
mostly text in Emacs all day long...).  I have an nvidia graphics card
and my experience with nvidia has never been positive, to be fair.

-- 
Eric S Fraga via Emacs 28.0.60 & org 9.5 on Debian 11.1

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#241828

On 01/11/2021 14:02, Eric S Fraga wrote:

> Your comment about the GPU driver is helpful as I probably don't have
> the optimum graphics card settings (I do very little graphical work:
> mostly text in Emacs all day long...).  I have an nvidia graphics card
> and my experience with nvidia has never been positive, to be fair.

Glad I could help you move to (hopefully) right direction. Nvidia
provides closed source drivers only which are known to have errors and
bugs. I you don't use closed source drivers, open source equivalent -
nouveau driver, is (or could be) even more buggy and basic.

Sometimes Nvidia drivers are blacklisted in browsers and you have no
acceleration whatsoever, because of bugs. Can you change your GPU to
AMD? To Radeon card with open source driver? I do 4K 60FPS gaming on my
radeon card with open source driver, no problems at all. Didn't hang on
me since I installed Bullseye.

Please check hardware acceleration settings in Firefox. Maybe they can
be enabled, disabled, changed, or reset to default. Reason of this
procedure is that Firefox works better with your GPU. See what you can
do, start from about:support page in Firefox. But that perhaps is
offtopic discussion in this Debian mailing list.

--
With kindest regards, Piotr.

⢀⣴⠾⠻⢶⣦⠀
⣾⠁⢠⠒⠀⣿⡁ Debian - The universal operating system
⢿⡄⠘⠷⠚⠋⠀ https://www.debian.org
⠈⠳⣄⠀⠀⠀⠀

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#241830

On Monday,  1 Nov 2021 at 14:53, piorunz wrote:
> Glad I could help you move to (hopefully) right direction. 

Thank you for all the suggestions.

My solution is straightforward: I open Firefox when I need it (usually
these days only for banking, using eww in Emacs for most everything else
web related... ;-)) and then close it immediately.  No performance
issues then!

-- 
Eric S Fraga via Emacs 28.0.60 & org 9.5 on Debian 11.1

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#242894

[Multipart message — attachments visible in raw view] — view raw

On Lu, 01 nov 21, 07:58:09, Eric S Fraga wrote:
> On Sunday, 31 Oct 2021 at 09:17, piorunz wrote:
> > Nah. Problem is your computer, not Firefox. 
> 
> Rather dismissive?
> 
> Everything else on this "slow" computer (yes, it's old but has 4
> dual-core Intel(R) Xeon(R) CPU E5-1620 v2 @ 3.70GHz processors and 32 GB
> RAM) works just fine otherwise.  Drive and memory all test fine.
> 
> Only Firefox causes me problems if I let it run for a long time.  My
> system is up 24/7.

I've seen some hints on the web that slow storage can also have an 
impact, something to do with periodic flushing of some sqlite database 
to persistent storage.

Even on older hardware, persistent storage is significantly slower than 
the rest, a fast SSD can really breath new life into it.

Kind regards,
Andrei
-- 
http://wiki.debian.org/FAQsFromDebianUser

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#243051

On Friday, 10 Dec 2021 at 12:23, Andrei POPESCU wrote:
> I've seen some hints on the web that slow storage can also have an 
> impact, something to do with periodic flushing of some sqlite database 
> to persistent storage.

This is indeed a very likely explanation.  The disk drives on this
system are definitely on the slow side.  I could upgrade but killing
firefox periodically is an easier (and cheaper 😉) solution for me! 🙂

-- 
Eric S Fraga with org 9.5.1 in Emacs 29.0.50 on Debian 11.1

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#243089

[Multipart message — attachments visible in raw view] — view raw

On Lu, 13 dec 21, 11:40:15, Eric S Fraga wrote:
> On Friday, 10 Dec 2021 at 12:23, Andrei POPESCU wrote:
> > I've seen some hints on the web that slow storage can also have an 
> > impact, something to do with periodic flushing of some sqlite database 
> > to persistent storage.
> 
> This is indeed a very likely explanation.  The disk drives on this
> system are definitely on the slow side.  I could upgrade but killing
> firefox periodically is an easier (and cheaper 😉) solution for me! 🙂

If at all possible, that system would benefit greatly from moving the 
system to an SSD.

Kind regards,
Andrei
-- 
http://wiki.debian.org/FAQsFromDebianUser

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#243098

On Tuesday, 14 Dec 2021 at 09:14, Andrei POPESCU wrote:
> If at all possible, that system would benefit greatly from moving the 
> system to an SSD.

I do have one system with an SSD and these drives do have an incredible
positive performance impact.

With respect to the system I have been referring in this thread, I'm
sure replacing the drives with an SSD would help the system but this
would cost money and, more to the point, this system is scheduled to be
replaced in the near future by a much newer (albeit not new: 4-5 years
old) system.

If it were a big issue for me, then the cost could be worth it, of
course, but it's not really.  I only posted earlier in the thread as a
data point on what things can slow desktop environments down.

Thank you for your suggestions!
-- 
Eric S Fraga with org 9.5.1 in Emacs 29.0.50 on Debian 11.1

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#241806

On 29/10/2021 13:56, kaye n wrote:
> For example when I'm using Firefox and I have about 10 to 12 websites
> opened in different tabs
>
> First tab is google, second is ebay, third is amazon, third is youtube, etc.
>
> That's when things get real slow.
>
> I have the CPU Monitor widget on the taskbar. It goes up to almost 100.
> I see that when the system slows down or hangs.

Please show screenshot of "htop" command running in the terminal.

--
With kindest regards, Piotr.

⢀⣴⠾⠻⢶⣦⠀
⣾⠁⢠⠒⠀⣿⡁ Debian - The universal operating system
⢿⡄⠘⠷⠚⠋⠀ https://www.debian.org
⠈⠳⣄⠀⠀⠀⠀

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#241787

[Multipart message — attachments visible in raw view] — view raw

kaye n writes:

> Hi Friends!
>
> LXQT says,
>
> It will not get in your way. It will not hang or slow down your system.
>
> However, I've experienced the opposite, especially when I'm using Firefox  
> browser and attempt to open several pages in different tabs.
>
> I don't think the problem lies with Firefox though because I didn't have that  
> problem on Debian 10 XFCE.  I am now running Debian 11 LXQT.

Note that from Debian 10 XFCE to Debian 11 LXQT a lot of things changed. I  
am pretty sure that it is not LXQT's fault here especially if the problem  
only occurs while Firefox is running.

I'd suggest to try debugging _why_ Firefox has become so much slower as per  
the upgrade. It is unlikely that it is the new Firefox version being slower  
than the old ones (although it may be possible). What I'd rather guess is  
that something different changed in the system which now causes it to run  
slower.

What GPU are you using? How is the RAM load during the slow phases? Can you  
close invidual tabs to stop the slowness i.e. can you make out that the high  
load is caused by a specific website or a specific type of website. It could  
be possible that during the upgrade a combination of driver+GUI was  
installed that is no longer compatible with your GPU. This would typically  
manifest in high CPU load for things like video playing or animations of all  
kinds because the system falls back to "software rendering" in case the GPU  
is not supported properly.

> I don't want to use XFCE again just because I want to try another.
>
> Could LXDE be better?  Is there a way I can install LXDE to my existing  
> Debian 11 running LXQT?  Or should I just fresh install Debian 11 with LXDE  
> as the default desktop environment?

Adding LXDE to your existing installation should be as simple as

	# apt-get install task-lxde-desktop

Watch out if APT displays any conflicts with your existing packages. During  
login, you should then be able select different types of "sessions"  
including LXDE and LXQT ones.

>From experiments on slow (old, i386) machines, my experience was that LXDE  
was indeed a little bit faster than LXQT but the difference is probably not  
notable on anything but >13 year old hardware :)

> Thank you for your time.

HTH and YMMV
Linux-Fan

öö

OT: If you want something that _really_ does not get in the way or slow  
down, consider switching to any lightweight window manager like Fluxbox,  
IceWM, i3 etc. These are know to be _very_ responsive even on old machines.  
Of course, this will not solve the slowness caused by the software you use.  
Webbrowsers will remain bulky and large as many sites do not work with the  
lightweight browsers anymore...

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#241819

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kaye n writes:

> SORRY I SHOULD HAVE SENT IT TO DEBIAN LIST

Never mind, I am taking this as an OK to post my answer to the list :)

> On Sun, Oct 31, 2021 at 9:16 PM kaye n <guikaye@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>
>    On Fri, Oct 29, 2021 at 10:35 PM Linux-Fan <Ma_Sys.ma@web.de> wrote:

[...]

>      I'd suggest to try debugging _why_ Firefox has become so much slower as
>      per 
>      the upgrade. It is unlikely that it is the new Firefox version being
>      slower 
>      than the old ones (although it may be possible). What I'd rather guess
>      is 
>      that something different changed in the system which now causes it to
>      run 
>      slower.
>
>      What GPU are you using? How is the RAM load during the slow phases? Can
>      you 
>      close invidual tabs to stop the slowness i.e. can you make out that the
>      high 
>      load is caused by a specific website or a specific type of website. It

[...]

>     What GPU are you using?
>      Device-1: Intel 82945G/GZ Integrated Graphics driver: i915 v: kernel
>      Display: x11 server: X.Org 1.20.11 driver: loaded: intel
>      unloaded: fbdev,modesetting,vesa resolution: 1366x768~60Hz
>      OpenGL: renderer: Mesa DRI Intel 945G v: 1.4 Mesa 20.3.5
>
>    Can you  close invidual tabs to stop the slowness
>    Almost always no.

Actually, this looks pretty OK to me. I conclude that it is most likely not  
to be a GPU-related issue, although I do not know what else might be causing  
the slowness. Others suggested to check the CPU load with `htop`. This might  
indeed be a good next thing to try?

HTH
Linux-Fan

öö

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