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Leibniz' "best of all possible worlds" ...

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  Leibniz' "best of all possible worlds" ... "Ricardo C. Lopez" <lbrtchx@gmail.com> - 2021-10-24 21:50 +0200
    Re: Leibniz' "best of all possible worlds" ... David Christensen <dpchrist@holgerdanske.com> - 2021-10-24 22:10 +0200
    Re: Leibniz' "best of all possible worlds" ... Nicholas Geovanis <nickgeovanis@gmail.com> - 2021-10-24 22:20 +0200
      Re: Leibniz' "best of all possible worlds" ... Nicholas Geovanis <nickgeovanis@gmail.com> - 2021-10-24 22:30 +0200
    Re: Leibniz' "best of all possible          worlds" ... Linux-Fan <Ma_Sys.ma@web.de> - 2021-10-24 22:30 +0200
      Re: Leibniz' "best of all possible worlds" ... Nicholas Geovanis <nickgeovanis@gmail.com> - 2021-10-24 22:40 +0200
    Re: Leibniz' "best of all possible worlds" ... harryweaver@tutanota.com - 2021-10-24 22:40 +0200
    Re: Leibniz' "best of all possible worlds" ... "Andrew M.A. Cater" <amacater@einval.com> - 2021-10-24 23:00 +0200
      Re: Leibniz' "best of all possible worlds" ... "Ricardo C. Lopez" <lbrtchx@gmail.com> - 2021-10-25 00:00 +0200
    Re: Leibniz' "best of all possible worlds" ... Bret Busby <bret@busby.net> - 2021-10-24 23:10 +0200
      Leibniz' "best of all possible worlds" ... "Ricardo C. Lopez" <lbrtchx@gmail.com> - 2021-10-25 00:00 +0200
        Re: Leibniz' "best of all possible worlds" ... Nicholas Geovanis <nickgeovanis@gmail.com> - 2021-10-25 01:50 +0200
          Re: Leibniz' "best of all possible worlds" ... "James H. H. Lampert" <jamesl@touchtonecorp.com> - 2021-10-25 17:40 +0200
            Re: Leibniz' "best of all possible worlds" "Thomas Schmitt" <scdbackup@gmx.net> - 2021-10-25 18:40 +0200
              Re: Leibniz' "best of all possible worlds" Kenneth Parker <sea7kenp@gmail.com> - 2021-10-25 20:30 +0200
              Re: Leibniz' "best of all possible worlds" Nicholas Geovanis <nickgeovanis@gmail.com> - 2021-10-26 21:50 +0200
      Re: Leibniz' "best of all possible worlds" ... harryweaver@tutanota.com - 2021-10-25 02:00 +0200
    Re: Leibniz' "best of all possible worlds" ... "Ricardo C. Lopez" <lbrtchx@gmail.com> - 2021-10-24 23:30 +0200
      Re: Leibniz' "best of all possible worlds" ... "Andrew M.A. Cater" <amacater@einval.com> - 2021-10-24 23:40 +0200

#241640 — Leibniz' "best of all possible worlds" ...

 Use case: At work (a school) they use Windows 10 and IT is kind of
fundamentalist about it. So I am thinking of "just" using the RAM and
the processor in their machine. I am thinking of:
 * running Debian Live from an external USB attached DVD player
 * via Qemu, which, of course, I will have to install and for which I
may need admin rights, and
 * attached an external pan and/or microdrive with whatever code I
need for my business.

 Is such an environment possible? What kinds of technical problems do
you foresee with such setup?, probably with the BIOS? Any tips you
would share or any other way of doing such thing (I don't like to use
Windows, but at work you must use it)?

Thank you,
lbrtchx

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#241642

On 10/24/21 12:40 PM, Ricardo C. Lopez wrote:
>   Use case: At work (a school) they use Windows 10 and IT is kind of
> fundamentalist about it. So I am thinking of "just" using the RAM and
> the processor in their machine. I am thinking of:
>   * running Debian Live from an external USB attached DVD player
>   * via Qemu, which, of course, I will have to install and for which I
> may need admin rights, and
>   * attached an external pan and/or microdrive with whatever code I
> need for my business.
> 
>   Is such an environment possible? What kinds of technical problems do
> you foresee with such setup?, probably with the BIOS? Any tips you
> would share or any other way of doing such thing (I don't like to use
> Windows, but at work you must use it)?
> 
> Thank you,
> lbrtchx


It is their computer, so you had better play by their rules.


Ask them to install virtualization software and give you the ability to 
create virtual machines.


David

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#241643

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On Sun, Oct 24, 2021, 2:40 PM Ricardo C. Lopez <lbrtchx@gmail.com> wrote:

>  Use case: At work (a school) they use Windows 10 and IT is kind of
> fundamentalist about it. So I am thinking of "just" using the RAM and
> the processor in their machine. I am thinking of:
>  * running Debian Live from an external USB attached DVD player
>  * via Qemu, which, of course, I will have to install and for which I
> may need admin rights, and
>  * attached an external pan and/or microdrive with whatever code I
> need for my business.
>
>  Is such an environment possible? What kinds of technical problems do
> you foresee with such setup?, probably with the BIOS?


Some employers do lock the BIOS. So perhaps you won't be able to change the
boot order to try your DVD. Some types of block you can't even get a chance
to enter the BIOS pwd.

Any tips you
> would share or any other way of doing such thing (I don't like to use
> Windows, but at work you must use it)?
>

Don't forget that you should be able to mount your Win10 filesystem from
the running live image. At least RO. But again, perhaps the win admins got
there first.

Thank you,
> lbrtchx
>
>

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#241645

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On Sun, Oct 24, 2021, 3:12 PM Nicholas Geovanis <nickgeovanis@gmail.com>
wrote:

>
>
> On Sun, Oct 24, 2021, 2:40 PM Ricardo C. Lopez <lbrtchx@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>>  Use case: At work (a school) they use Windows 10 and IT is kind of
>> fundamentalist about it. So I am thinking of "just" using the RAM and
>> the processor in their machine. I am thinking of:
>>  * running Debian Live from an external USB attached DVD player
>>  * via Qemu, which, of course, I will have to install and for which I
>> may need admin rights, and
>>  * attached an external pan and/or microdrive with whatever code I
>> need for my business.
>>
>>  Is such an environment possible? What kinds of technical problems do
>> you foresee with such setup?, probably with the BIOS?
>
>
> Some employers do lock the BIOS. So perhaps you won't be able to change
> the boot order to try your DVD. Some types of block you can't even get a
> chance to enter the BIOS pwd.
>

Forgot to mention: Check the USB ports too. Some or all may be bootable and
present in the boot list. Sometimes rear-facing ports are configured
different to the front panel ports.
And so consider a bootable stick rather than optical.

Thank you,
>> lbrtchx
>>
>>

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#241646 — Re: Leibniz' "best of all possible worlds" ...

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Ricardo C. Lopez writes:

>  Use case: At work (a school) they use Windows 10 and IT is kind of
> fundamentalist about it. So I am thinking of "just" using the RAM and
> the processor in their machine. I am thinking of:

>  * running Debian Live from an external USB attached DVD player

May work, but is going to run slow. While live images of today are still ISO  
files, running them from actual DVDs is slow. It will need dedicated  
preparation time before each use to startup such live images.

>  * via Qemu, which, of course, I will have to install and for which I
> may need admin rights, and

I am not sure if QEMU on Windows supports the virtualization accelleration  
yet. If yes, this route might be quite feasible. If no, you could consider  
using one of the other solutions like Microsoft Hyper V, VirtualBox, VMWare  
Player. All of them need admin rights. Also: Where would you store the VM's  
HDD image?

>  * attached an external pan and/or microdrive with whatever code I
> need for my business.

This is what I would probably try first. Especially consider these two  
variants:

 - Live system from external pen drive (16 GB stick or similar)
   You might consider adding a "persistence" partition such that
   work results can be saved.

 - Installed system from external hard drive or large pen drive
   (> 32 GB). This allows for the most "natural" feel of Linux because
   all settings will be saved persistently by default.

>  Is such an environment possible? What kinds of technical problems do
> you foresee with such setup?, probably with the BIOS? Any tips you
> would share or any other way of doing such thing (I don't like to use
> Windows, but at work you must use it)?

Problem I foresee: Most likely, your admins have deactivated booting from  
external devices.

You could also tackle this with a networked approach: Given that your  
Windows PCs are most likely already properly connected to a common local  
network, you could make use of that by providing a central "Linux  
server" - if your admins insist, it could be a Windows host with Linux in  
VMs. Then, you could access it from any windows host either vith a  
virtualization client software (VMWare vSphere?) or through the SSH and VNC  
protocols. 

HTH and YMMV
Linux-Fan

öö

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#241647

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On Sun, Oct 24, 2021, 3:23 PM Linux-Fan <Ma_Sys.ma@web.de> wrote:

> - if your admins insist, it could be a Windows host with Linux in
> VMs. Then, you could access it from any windows host either vith a
> virtualization client software (VMWare vSphere?) or through the SSH and
> VNC
> protocols.
>

And there's another option :-)
Ignore the Win admins and find the folks doing AWS or Google cloud (even
Azure ;-) Could be the same crowd :-)
Just tell them you need a little-tiny Linux VM. Special side project for
your boss, but that web app needs extra vRAM. Say, oh, 64GB :-)
And you'll need at least 6 cores: 4 for LAMP and 2 for you and Linux :-)

HTH and YMMV
> Linux-Fan
>
> öö
>

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#241648

-- 
 Sent with Tutanota, the secure & ad-free mailbox. 



25 Oct 2021, 05:40 by lbrtchx@gmail.com:

> Use case: At work (a school) they use Windows 10 and IT is kind of
> fundamentalist about it. So I am thinking of "just" using the RAM and
> the processor in their machine. I am thinking of:
>  * running Debian Live from an external USB attached DVD player
>  * via Qemu, which, of course, I will have to install and for which I
> may need admin rights, and
>  * attached an external pan and/or microdrive with whatever code I
> need for my business.
>
>  Is such an environment possible? What kinds of technical problems do
> you foresee with such setup?, probably with the BIOS? Any tips you
> would share or any other way of doing such thing (I don't like to use
> Windows, but at work you must use it)?
>
Why not an install on an external harddrive in an enclosure?
Have the BIOS geared to pick up the USB connection first, and GRUB will pick up the Windows install.
You choose which you boot into there.
Cheers!

Harry.

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#241650

On Sun, Oct 24, 2021 at 02:40:13PM -0500, Ricardo C. Lopez wrote:
>  Use case: At work (a school) they use Windows 10 and IT is kind of
> fundamentalist about it. So I am thinking of "just" using the RAM and
> the processor in their machine. I am thinking of:
>  * running Debian Live from an external USB attached DVD player
>  * via Qemu, which, of course, I will have to install and for which I
> may need admin rights, and
>  * attached an external pan and/or microdrive with whatever code I
> need for my business.
> 
>  Is such an environment possible? What kinds of technical problems do
> you foresee with such setup?, probably with the BIOS? Any tips you
> would share or any other way of doing such thing (I don't like to use
> Windows, but at work you must use it)?
> 
> Thank you,
> lbrtchx
> 

Microsoft WSL2 - if on Windows Pro - and Debian WSL image. WSL2 is sorted
by Microsoft and "just works" on Windows. Debian image can be downloaded
from Microsoft Store - there is another way to get images that are 
distributable round a business but I'm unsure how that works.

Debian on WSL has an IRC list and is maintained by a Debian developer
as an official image. It's essentially the equivalent of a VM with
full access to Windows filesystem and networking.

Hope this helps,

Andy Cater
Andy Cater

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#241657

On 10/24/21, Andrew M.A. Cater <amacater@einval.com> wrote:
> Microsoft WSL2 - if on Windows Pro - and Debian WSL image. WSL2 is sorted
> by Microsoft and "just works" on Windows. Debian image can be downloaded
> from Microsoft Store - there is another way to get images that are
> distributable round a business but I'm unsure how that works.
>
> Debian on WSL has an IRC list and is maintained by a Debian developer
> as an official image. It's essentially the equivalent of a VM with
> full access to Windows filesystem and networking.
>
> Hope this helps,

 Well, that seems to be exactly what I need. I will have to find some
time to look into that.

 Thank you,
 lbrtchx

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#241651

On 25/10/21 3:40 am, Ricardo C. Lopez wrote:
>   Use case: At work (a school) they use Windows 10 and IT is kind of
> fundamentalist about it. So I am thinking of "just" using the RAM and
> the processor in their machine. I am thinking of:
>   * running Debian Live from an external USB attached DVD player
>   * via Qemu, which, of course, I will have to install and for which I
> may need admin rights, and
>   * attached an external pan and/or microdrive with whatever code I
> need for my business.
> 
>   Is such an environment possible? What kinds of technical problems do
> you foresee with such setup?, probably with the BIOS? Any tips you
> would share or any other way of doing such thing (I don't like to use
> Windows, but at work you must use it)?
> 
> Thank you,
> lbrtchx
> 

I wonder at the ethics and legality of using the computer system of a 
school, for your own personal business, instead of your business having 
its own assets. On the face of it, it seems comparable to embezzlement.

I also wonder how Leibniz is relevant to this scenario - my 
understanding is that Leibniz is a symbol structure used in differential 
calculus as an alternative to Newtonian differential calculus symbolism.

-- 
Bret Busby
Armadale
West Australia
(UTC+0800)
..............

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#241658

On 10/24/21, Bret Busby <bret@busby.net> wrote:
> I wonder at the ethics and legality of using the computer system of a school, for your own personal business

 Well yes, what I had in mind wasn't exactly kosher, but in a sense I
wasn't hacking their rear ends or messing with their computers in a
way that would actually alter their own setup. I was "just" using
their RAM and processor's ticks (to put it somehow), so, as I
understand things, all they would have to do is remove the
virtualization software to have their thing exactly as they had given
it to me and yes, I was a bit lazy. I was trying to avoid using,
minding another computer ...

 Also I wanted to leave their computer on with email and such related
business ... while still being able to multitask (which I do quite
naturally, even unconsciously) from another virtualized view. At the
end of the day I would have removed my USB micro drive and we would be
all happy. Something in me tells me this should be technically
possible.

> I also wonder how Leibniz is relevant to this scenario ...

 and I wonder if you clinically lack some sense of humor or probably
your thoughts and jokes are flying too high and fast for me to follow
them:

 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Best_of_all_possible_worlds

 https://plato.stanford.edu/entries/leibniz-evil/

 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Candide

 In my way of interpreting his philosophy. He wasn't really talking
about "evil"/"good", "optimism"/"pessimism" ... to see that you must
understand his "God" in a "characteristica universalis" kind of way,
but then again this might be off topic here in a computer related
group or maybe it is very much topical, who knows.

 lbrtchx

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#241659

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On Sun, Oct 24, 2021, 4:55 PM Ricardo C. Lopez <lbrtchx@gmail.com> wrote:

> On 10/24/21, Bret Busby <bret@busby.net>
>
....

>
> > I also wonder how Leibniz is relevant to this scenario ...
>
>  and I wonder if you clinically lack some sense of humor or probably
> your thoughts and jokes are flying too high and fast for me to follow
> them:
>
>  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Best_of_all_possible_worlds


Philosophy is generally discouraged on this group. And in most of modern
societies.
Many people will respect you less for it, be less inclined to help. Even
logic: Modal and temporal logics are important in CS and DB work. They
originate in Aristotle but so what? :-)


>  https://plato.stanford.edu/entries/leibniz-evil/
>
>  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Candide
>
>  In my way of interpreting his philosophy. He wasn't really talking
>
....

>
>  lbrtchx
>
>

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#241670

 >>> I also wonder how Leibniz is relevant to this scenario ...

<shrug> When I think of Leibniz, I think of calculus (and rejoice in the 
fact that the only calculus I still have to deal with is what the 
dentist has to jackhammer off my teeth [before it turns into partial 
differential equations]).

When I think of "the best of all possible worlds," I think of Candide 
(take your pick: Voltaire, Bernstein, or both), and I think of the old 
chestnut that "an optimist believes we live in the best of all possible 
worlds, while a pessimist fears that the optimist is right."

When I went to Long Beach State, we used CDC Cybers. Which was a major 
culture shock after using an IBM 370/135 (running McGill University 
MUSIC), going from 8-bit EBCDIC to 6-bit CDC Scientific (with no room in 
the character set for any control characters!)

Still, if I were going to a school where WinDoze was compulsory, I'd 
find another school.

--
JHHL

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#241671 — Re: Leibniz' "best of all possible worlds"

Hi,

James H. H. Lampert wrote:
> When I think of Leibniz, I think of calculus

We german kids think of cookies with toes:

  https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/4/4c/Butterkeks.jpg


Have a nice day :)

Thomas

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#241672 — Re: Leibniz' "best of all possible worlds"

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On Mon, Oct 25, 2021, 12:35 PM Thomas Schmitt <scdbackup@gmx.net> wrote:

> Hi,
>
> James H. H. Lampert wrote:
> > When I think of Leibniz, I think of calculus
>
> We german kids think of cookies with toes:
>
>   https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/4/4c/Butterkeks.jpg


When I was a teen, I attended a Family reunion.  One of the other attendees
shared that he had returned from a Business Trip to Germany and brought us
a tin of these Cookies.  Quite delicious!

Have a nice day :)
>
> Thomas
>

Thanks for the Memory.

>
Kenneth Parker

>

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#241698 — Re: Leibniz' "best of all possible worlds"

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On Mon, Oct 25, 2021, 11:35 AM Thomas Schmitt <scdbackup@gmx.net> wrote:

> Hi,
>
> James H. H. Lampert wrote:
> > When I think of Leibniz, I think of calculus
>
> We german kids think of cookies with toes:
>
>   https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/4/4c/Butterkeks.jpg


Ach. Natürlich vorher gegessen. Mein Sohn Al's Kind auch :-)

Of course I've had Butterkeks. And my son when he needed them.
Thomas he also did his türnen at the Lincoln Turnverein in Chicago :-) Abe
Lincoln wasn't very German.... :-)


> Have a nice day :)
>
> Thomas
>
>

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#241660

25 Oct 2021, 06:42 by bret@busby.net:

> On 25/10/21 3:40 am, Ricardo C. Lopez wrote:
>
>> Use case: At work (a school) they use Windows 10 and IT is kind of
>> fundamentalist about it. So I am thinking of "just" using the RAM and
>> the processor in their machine. I am thinking of:
>>  * running Debian Live from an external USB attached DVD player
>>  * via Qemu, which, of course, I will have to install and for which I
>> may need admin rights, and
>>  * attached an external pan and/or microdrive with whatever code I
>> need for my business.
>>
>>  Is such an environment possible? What kinds of technical problems do
>> you foresee with such setup?, probably with the BIOS? Any tips you
>> would share or any other way of doing such thing (I don't like to use
>> Windows, but at work you must use it)?
>>
>> Thank you,
>> lbrtchx
>>
>
> I wonder at the ethics and legality of using the computer system of a school, for your own personal business, instead of your business having its own assets. On the face of it, it seems comparable to embezzlement.
>
You have absolutely no idea of what the situation is.
He could be a contractor who has been offered the school facilities; just one potential scenario.

>
> I also wonder how Leibniz is relevant to this scenario - my understanding is that Leibniz is a symbol structure used in differential calculus as an alternative to Newtonian differential calculus symbolism.
>
And Liebniz was a philosopher and mathematician. The `symbol structure' you refer to would add up to a fullstop in the entirety of his works, so your `understanding' would appear to be as limited as your sense of common courtesy.
Cheers!

Harry.

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#241655

 Well, I see too many "possible" problems of technical and political
nature. Perhaps I was too hopeful and/or Voltaire is still as right as
ever, but I was hoping for "yeah, sure!",  "here is a link showing how
to do it ..." kinds of answers.

 Here is plan B:
 * I may have to use an extra laptop (perhaps with Debian installed,
or, preferably)
 * still with an external DVD (I would like to be sure on a physical
level that my baseline hasn't been messed with and I don't want to
waste too much time checking it)
 * connect that extra laptop to their laptop to gain internet access
via a direct cable connection
 or:
 * use a relatively large USB with a special init configuration to use
a RAM disk and/or an extra disk and discard -absolutely- everything
that may have been installed or dropped in my files and folders while
I was connected to the Internet

 is there a Debian derivative conceived around such basic ideas?

 lbrtchx

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#241656

On Sun, Oct 24, 2021 at 04:22:58PM -0500, Ricardo C. Lopez wrote:
>  Well, I see too many "possible" problems of technical and political
> nature. Perhaps I was too hopeful and/or Voltaire is still as right as
> ever, but I was hoping for "yeah, sure!",  "here is a link showing how
> to do it ..." kinds of answers.
> 
>  Here is plan B:
>  * I may have to use an extra laptop (perhaps with Debian installed,
> or, preferably)
>  * still with an external DVD (I would like to be sure on a physical
> level that my baseline hasn't been messed with and I don't want to
> waste too much time checking it)
>  * connect that extra laptop to their laptop to gain internet access
> via a direct cable connection
>  or:
>  * use a relatively large USB with a special init configuration to use
> a RAM disk and/or an extra disk and discard -absolutely- everything
> that may have been installed or dropped in my files and folders while
> I was connected to the Internet
> 
>  is there a Debian derivative conceived around such basic ideas?
> 
>  lbrtchx
> 

It's a school / your work. You are going to have to play by their admin's 
rules - or they'll likely throw you off their network. My suggestion
is that you talk to them politely and explain what you want to do
and that you'll demonstrate it to them.

Some "clueless user doing random dangerous stuff on our network" - and
that's what school admins tend to think because of other people they've
dealt with in the past - is not a good basis to be going on with.

/me has experience of similar environments in the past.

All the very best, as ever,

Andy Cater

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