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Held Back Packages on Debian Sid

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  Held Back Packages on Debian Sid Ashish Kujur <ashish.kujur2@protonmail.com> - 2021-10-24 06:30 +0200
    Re: Held Back Packages on Debian Sid westlake <westlake2012@videotron.ca> - 2021-10-24 09:10 +0200
      Re: Held Back Packages on Debian Sid Joe <joe@jretrading.com> - 2021-10-24 20:10 +0200
        Re: Held Back Packages on Debian Sid harryweaver@tutanota.com - 2021-10-24 20:40 +0200
      Re: Held Back Packages on Debian Sid John Hasler <john@sugarbit.com> - 2021-10-24 21:00 +0200
        Re: Held Back Packages on Debian Sid Brian <ad44@cityscape.co.uk> - 2021-10-24 21:30 +0200
          Re: Held Back Packages on Debian Sid Andrei POPESCU <andreimpopescu@gmail.com> - 2021-10-25 07:40 +0200
    Re: Held Back Packages on Debian Sid Andrei POPESCU <andreimpopescu@gmail.com> - 2021-10-24 09:40 +0200
    Re: Held Back Packages on Debian Sid "Andrew M.A. Cater" <amacater@einval.com> - 2021-10-24 13:10 +0200

#241624 — Held Back Packages on Debian Sid

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Hello everyone!
I switched to Sid from Stable last month and everything seems to be going great. I have setup Timeshift to take snapsnots once everyday, in case, any packages break.
I use GNU Octave 6.2 and it depends on older version of libhypre. There's a newer version of libhypre available from apt and it has been held back. If I try to upgrade libhypre using full-upgrade (which is not recommended, of course) or install it manually, apt tries to remove Octave. What are my options here? Should I be okay with packages getting held back? Also, will libhypre be upgrade when there's a newer version of GNU Octave available? In general, if some package x depends on a package y and there's a upgrade available for y, will both x and y be upgraded when there's an upgrade available for x?

Thanking You!

Best Regards,
Ashish Kujur.

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#241627

'testing' is more safe to use as it is the branch used where packages 
have been pulled (from sid) after some reviewing of the package.

sid is more for development and requires a special setup with snapshots 
or a chroot environment.

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#241635

On Sun, 24 Oct 2021 02:59:19 -0400
westlake <westlake2012@videotron.ca> wrote:

> 'testing' is more safe to use as it is the branch used where packages 
> have been pulled (from sid) after some reviewing of the package.
> 
> sid is more for development and requires a special setup with
> snapshots or a chroot environment.
> 
> 

It depends. I've just retired a fifteen-year-old sid, used pretty much
daily (upgraded pretty much daily), and never done any of this. 

I do have more than one computer...

-- 
Joe

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#241636

-- 
 Sent with Tutanota, the secure & ad-free mailbox. 



25 Oct 2021, 04:03 by joe@jretrading.com:

> On Sun, 24 Oct 2021 02:59:19 -0400
> westlake <westlake2012@videotron.ca> wrote:
>
>> 'testing' is more safe to use as it is the branch used where packages 
>> have been pulled (from sid) after some reviewing of the package.
>>
>> sid is more for development and requires a special setup with
>> snapshots or a chroot environment.
>>
>
> It depends. I've just retired a fifteen-year-old sid, used pretty much
> daily (upgraded pretty much daily), and never done any of this. 
>
> I do have more than one computer...
>
+1
Ran Libranet for a couple of years, when XP came out in 2001, then switched to SID and been running with that since.
Never had a problem that wasn't resolved within 24 hours, and had plenty to go on with in the meantime.
No special requirements at all.
Cheers!

Harry.

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#241637

westlake writes:
> 'testing' is more safe to use as it is the branch used where packages
> have been pulled (from sid) after some reviewing of the package.

Packages migrate from Unstable (Sid) to Testing when they have been in
Unstable for ten days with no serious bugs being filed and when all
dependencies can be satisfied.

> sid is more for development and requires a special setup with
> snapshots or a chroot environment.

I've been using Unstable ever since it was created and have never needed
to do this.
-- 
John Hasler 
john@sugarbit.com
Elmwood, WI USA

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#241638

On Sun 24 Oct 2021 at 13:43:22 -0500, John Hasler wrote:

> westlake writes:
> > 'testing' is more safe to use as it is the branch used where packages
> > have been pulled (from sid) after some reviewing of the package.
> 
> Packages migrate from Unstable (Sid) to Testing when they have been in
> Unstable for ten days with no serious bugs being filed and when all
> dependencies can be satisfied.
> 
> > sid is more for development and requires a special setup with
> > snapshots or a chroot environment.
> 
> I've been using Unstable ever since it was created and have never needed
> to do this.

Ditto. I have never come across this requirement.

-- 
Brian.

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#241662

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On Du, 24 oct 21, 20:21:49, Brian wrote:
> On Sun 24 Oct 2021 at 13:43:22 -0500, John Hasler wrote:
> 
> > westlake writes:
> > > 'testing' is more safe to use as it is the branch used where packages
> > > have been pulled (from sid) after some reviewing of the package.
> > 
> > Packages migrate from Unstable (Sid) to Testing when they have been in
> > Unstable for ten days with no serious bugs being filed and when all
> > dependencies can be satisfied.
> > 
> > > sid is more for development and requires a special setup with
> > > snapshots or a chroot environment.
> > 
> > I've been using Unstable ever since it was created and have never needed
> > to do this.
> 
> Ditto. I have never come across this requirement.

That was probably a bit too specific, I'd reword that as "some fallback 
is highly recommended".

Kind regards,
Andrei
-- 
http://wiki.debian.org/FAQsFromDebianUser

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#241629

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On Du, 24 oct 21, 04:19:54, Ashish Kujur wrote:
> Hello everyone!
> I switched to Sid from Stable last month and everything seems to be 
> going great. I have setup Timeshift to take snapsnots once everyday, 
> in case, any packages break.
> I use GNU Octave 6.2 and it depends on older version of libhypre. 
> There's a newer version of libhypre available from apt and it has been 
> held back. If I try to upgrade libhypre using full-upgrade (which is 
> not recommended, of course) or install it manually, apt tries to 
> remove Octave. What are my options here? Should I be okay with 
> packages getting held back? Also, will libhypre be upgrade when 
> there's a newer version of GNU Octave available?

It's difficult to tell from the limited information you provided. Please 
paste here the full output of 'apt -sV full-upgrade'.

> In general, if some package x depends on a package y and there's a 
> upgrade available for y, will both x and y be upgraded when there's an 
> upgrade available for x?

It depends on how strict the dependencies are, but in general APT will 
try to upgrade everything it can according to your request (`upgrade` or 
`full-upgrade`).

Kind regards,
Andrei
-- 
http://wiki.debian.org/FAQsFromDebianUser

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#241630

On Sun, Oct 24, 2021 at 04:19:54AM +0000, Ashish Kujur wrote:
> Hello everyone!
> I switched to Sid from Stable last month and everything seems to be going 
> great. 

_How_ did you switch from stable? Did you upgrade to testing first, then 
upgrade to Sid? Important because, unless you have a minimal system, there's
now a fair amount of churn from bullseye -> bookworm. If you're going to jump
to Sid, it's worth having a minimal system to upgrade to begin with.

What does your /etc/apt/sources.list file look like now?

I have setup Timeshift to take snapsnots once everyday, in case, any packages 
> break.
> I use GNU Octave 6.2 and it depends on older version of libhypre. There's a 
> newer version of libhypre available from apt and it has been held back. 

https://tracker.debian.org/pkg/octave is useful.

Unsatisfiable dependencies and a new version waiting in experimental.
The unsatisfiable dependency mentions libhypre

> If I try to upgrade libhypre using full-upgrade (which is not recommended, 
> of course) or install it manually, apt tries to remove Octave. 
> What are my options here? Should I be okay with packages getting held back? 

You are now running Sid. You are assumed to be fully capable of understanding
and dealing with problems that arise on your own initiative.

There's a reason that the folk on this list suggest running stable: in fact
for Octave, the version in stable is the same as in unstable. 

Unless you really, really, really need to run Sid and are prepared to accept 
problems of package transitions, delays in fixes and uncertain levels of 
security support, you may be better off running stable. Doubly so if this
is a system which you rely on for stability / serious work.

> Also, will libhypre be upgrade when there's a newer version of GNU Octave 
> available? In general, if some package x depends on a package y and there's
> a upgrade available for y, will both x and y be upgraded when there's an 
> upgrade available for x?
>

Yes, that's the package maintainers job - if need be, they will talk to 
maintainers of other libraries and packagers to help satisfy their 
dependencies
 
> Thanking You!
> 
> Best Regards,
> Ashish Kujur.

All the very best, as ever,

Andy Cater

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