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Groups > linux.debian.user > #246091 > unrolled thread

Wayland vs X

Started byKevin Exton <kcexton01@gmail.com>
First post2022-03-08 23:20 +0100
Last post2022-03-16 13:40 +0100
Articles 12 on this page of 72 — 18 participants

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Contents

  Wayland vs X Kevin Exton <kcexton01@gmail.com> - 2022-03-08 23:20 +0100
    Re: Wayland vs X Georgi Naplatanov <gosho@oles.biz> - 2022-03-09 11:00 +0100
      Re: Wayland vs X Emanuel Berg <moasenwood@zoho.eu> - 2022-03-09 11:20 +0100
        Re: Wayland vs X didier gaumet <didier.gaumet@gmail.com> - 2022-03-09 15:00 +0100
          Re: Wayland vs X Emanuel Berg <moasenwood@zoho.eu> - 2022-03-09 16:30 +0100
            Re: Wayland vs X didier gaumet <didier.gaumet@gmail.com> - 2022-03-09 21:30 +0100
              Re: Wayland vs X Emanuel Berg <moasenwood@zoho.eu> - 2022-03-10 16:30 +0100
                Re: Wayland vs X didier gaumet <didier.gaumet@gmail.com> - 2022-03-10 18:30 +0100
                  Re: Wayland vs X Emanuel Berg <moasenwood@zoho.eu> - 2022-03-10 19:10 +0100
                    Re: Wayland vs X didier gaumet <didier.gaumet@gmail.com> - 2022-03-10 21:30 +0100
                      Re: Wayland vs X Emanuel Berg <moasenwood@zoho.eu> - 2022-03-11 00:10 +0100
                        Re: Wayland vs X Nate Bargmann <n0nb@n0nb.us> - 2022-03-11 13:10 +0100
                          Re: Wayland vs X Christian Britz <cbritz@t-online.de> - 2022-03-11 14:20 +0100
                            Re: Wayland vs X Nate Bargmann <n0nb@n0nb.us> - 2022-03-11 15:10 +0100
                              Re: Wayland vs X didier gaumet <didier.gaumet@gmail.com> - 2022-03-11 17:40 +0100
                              Re: Wayland vs X Emanuel Berg <moasenwood@zoho.eu> - 2022-03-11 21:10 +0100
                                Re: Wayland vs X Nate Bargmann <n0nb@n0nb.us> - 2022-03-11 23:10 +0100
                                  Re: Wayland vs X Emanuel Berg <moasenwood@zoho.eu> - 2022-03-12 01:10 +0100
                            Re: Wayland vs X Marco Möller <talby@debianlists.mobilxpress.net> - 2022-03-11 19:30 +0100
                              Re: Wayland vs X Tim Woodall <debianuser@woodall.me.uk> - 2022-03-11 20:30 +0100
                              Re: Wayland vs X Nicholas Geovanis <nickgeovanis@gmail.com> - 2022-03-11 22:10 +0100
                                Re: Wayland vs X Nate Bargmann <n0nb@n0nb.us> - 2022-03-11 23:20 +0100
                                Re: Wayland vs X <tomas@tuxteam.de> - 2022-03-12 07:40 +0100
                                Re: Wayland vs X Anssi Saari <as@sci.fi> - 2022-03-14 16:30 +0100
                                  Re: Wayland vs X Marco Möller <talby@debianlists.mobilxpress.net> - 2022-03-14 17:50 +0100
                                    Re: Wayland vs X Anssi Saari <as@sci.fi> - 2022-03-14 18:30 +0100
                                      Re: Wayland vs X Marco Möller <talby@debianlists.mobilxpress.net> - 2022-03-14 20:30 +0100
                                        Re: Wayland vs X Nicholas Geovanis <nickgeovanis@gmail.com> - 2022-03-14 21:10 +0100
                          Re: Wayland vs X Emanuel Berg <moasenwood@zoho.eu> - 2022-03-11 21:20 +0100
                            Re: Wayland vs X Nate Bargmann <n0nb@n0nb.us> - 2022-03-11 23:10 +0100
                          Re: Wayland vs X The Wanderer <wanderer@fastmail.fm> - 2022-03-11 21:50 +0100
                            Re: Wayland vs X Emanuel Berg <moasenwood@zoho.eu> - 2022-03-11 22:10 +0100
                              Re: Wayland vs X Emanuel Berg <moasenwood@zoho.eu> - 2022-03-11 22:30 +0100
                                Re: Wayland vs X Greg Wooledge <greg@wooledge.org> - 2022-03-11 22:40 +0100
                                  Re: Wayland vs X 황병희 <soyeomul@doraji.xyz> - 2022-03-16 07:20 +0100
                              Re: Wayland vs X Greg Wooledge <greg@wooledge.org> - 2022-03-11 22:30 +0100
                                Re: Wayland vs X conover@panix.com (John Conover) - 2022-03-11 23:00 +0100
                              Re: Wayland vs X The Wanderer <wanderer@fastmail.fm> - 2022-03-11 22:40 +0100
                                Re: Wayland vs X Emanuel Berg <moasenwood@zoho.eu> - 2022-03-11 23:00 +0100
                                  Re: Wayland vs X The Wanderer <wanderer@fastmail.fm> - 2022-03-11 23:00 +0100
                                    Re: Wayland vs X Emanuel Berg <moasenwood@zoho.eu> - 2022-03-11 23:10 +0100
                            Re: Wayland vs X <tomas@tuxteam.de> - 2022-03-12 07:30 +0100
                              Re: Wayland vs X The Wanderer <wanderer@fastmail.fm> - 2022-03-12 13:30 +0100
                                Re: Wayland vs X <tomas@tuxteam.de> - 2022-03-12 13:40 +0100
                                  Re: Wayland vs X Nate Bargmann <n0nb@n0nb.us> - 2022-03-12 15:00 +0100
                                    Re: Wayland vs X <tomas@tuxteam.de> - 2022-03-12 15:10 +0100
                                  Re: Wayland vs X The Wanderer <wanderer@fastmail.fm> - 2022-03-13 00:40 +0100
                              Re: Wayland vs X Greg Wooledge <greg@wooledge.org> - 2022-03-12 21:10 +0100
                                Re: Wayland vs X <tomas@tuxteam.de> - 2022-03-12 22:00 +0100
                Re: Wayland vs X didier gaumet <didier.gaumet@gmail.com> - 2022-03-10 18:30 +0100
      Re: Wayland vs X Pascal Obry <pascal@obry.net> - 2022-03-09 11:40 +0100
        Re: Wayland vs X Emanuel Berg <moasenwood@zoho.eu> - 2022-03-09 11:50 +0100
    Re: Wayland vs X Christian Britz <cbritz@t-online.de> - 2022-03-09 11:50 +0100
      Re: Wayland vs X Emanuel Berg <moasenwood@zoho.eu> - 2022-03-09 12:00 +0100
      Re: Wayland vs X Nicholas Geovanis <nickgeovanis@gmail.com> - 2022-03-09 18:20 +0100
        Re: Wayland vs X <tomas@tuxteam.de> - 2022-03-09 18:50 +0100
          Re: Wayland vs X Nicholas Geovanis <nickgeovanis@gmail.com> - 2022-03-09 20:00 +0100
            Re: Wayland vs X <tomas@tuxteam.de> - 2022-03-09 20:40 +0100
              Re: Wayland vs X Emanuel Berg <moasenwood@zoho.eu> - 2022-03-09 20:50 +0100
                Re: Wayland vs X <tomas@tuxteam.de> - 2022-03-09 21:30 +0100
                  Re: Wayland vs X gene heskett <gheskett@shentel.net> - 2022-03-09 21:40 +0100
                    Re: Wayland vs X <tomas@tuxteam.de> - 2022-03-09 22:00 +0100
        Re: Wayland vs X Christian Britz <cbritz@t-online.de> - 2022-03-09 21:20 +0100
    Re: Wayland vs X 황병희 <soyeomul@doraji.xyz> - 2022-03-16 07:00 +0100
      Re: Wayland vs X Emanuel Berg <moasenwood@zoho.eu> - 2022-03-16 08:00 +0100
        Re: Wayland vs X Nate Bargmann <n0nb@n0nb.us> - 2022-03-16 08:20 +0100
          Re: Wayland vs X Emanuel Berg <moasenwood@zoho.eu> - 2022-03-16 08:30 +0100
        Re: Wayland vs X "Byung-Hee HWANG" <soyeomul@doraji.xyz> - 2022-03-16 08:40 +0100
        Re: Wayland vs X Greg Wooledge <greg@wooledge.org> - 2022-03-16 12:40 +0100
          Re: Wayland vs X Emanuel Berg <moasenwood@zoho.eu> - 2022-03-16 13:10 +0100
            Re: Wayland vs X Emanuel Berg <moasenwood@zoho.eu> - 2022-03-16 13:20 +0100
              Re: Wayland vs X Emanuel Berg <moasenwood@zoho.eu> - 2022-03-16 13:40 +0100

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#246138

Fromgene heskett <gheskett@shentel.net>
Date2022-03-09 21:40 +0100
Message-ID<DZbgd-EUg-7@gated-at.bofh.it>
In reply to#246136
On Wednesday, 9 March 2022 15:21:10 EST tomas@tuxteam.de wrote:
> On Wed, Mar 09, 2022 at 08:42:31PM +0100, Emanuel Berg wrote:
> > tomas wrote:
> > > I hope X isn't going anywhere the next 10..15 years.
> > > After that, I'll be gone myself, so... ;-)
> > :
> > :( *sob*
> 
> Don't worry. Life is like that :)
> 
Or Tomas, you could be like me.  He's had several good chances to put a 
~30~ on my story, but he knows he'd have to send me down, I'd fix the 
stoker, rewind the generator to power it and some AC, and open an air 
conditioned bar serving good WV hooch in mason jars.  And both are so 
afraid of that that they keep sending me back. So at 87, you're stuck 
with me till? ;o) Take care my friend.

> Cheers
> --
> t


Cheers, Gene Heskett.
-- 
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author, 1940)
If we desire respect for the law, we must first make the law respectable.
 - Louis D. Brandeis

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#246139

From<tomas@tuxteam.de>
Date2022-03-09 22:00 +0100
Message-ID<DZbzA-F0A-3@gated-at.bofh.it>
In reply to#246138

[Multipart message — attachments visible in raw view] — view raw

On Wed, Mar 09, 2022 at 03:37:17PM -0500, gene heskett wrote:

[...]

> > Don't worry. Life is like that :)
> > 
> Or Tomas, you could be like me.  He's had several good chances to put a 
> ~30~ on my story, but he knows he'd have to send me down, I'd fix the 
> stoker, rewind the generator to power it and some AC, and open an air 
> conditioned bar serving good WV hooch in mason jars.  And both are so 
> afraid of that that they keep sending me back. So at 87, you're stuck 
> with me till? ;o) Take care my friend.

Well, you take care, too :)

Cheers
-- 
t

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#246134

FromChristian Britz <cbritz@t-online.de>
Date2022-03-09 21:20 +0100
Message-ID<DZaWR-EOf-5@gated-at.bofh.it>
In reply to#246128

On 2022-03-09 18:15 UTC+0100, Nicholas Geovanis wrote:
> Here's something about the X ecosystem that I don't understand anymore.
> I've read the statement
> that "X isn't developed anymore, only XFree86". In other words, X source
> was re-based to Xfree86
> a long time ago. So it must be that in the XFree86-based X Windows, only
> the X server is under active
> development, nothing more than that. Is that accurate?
That statement is wrong, you are confusing some things. XFree86 was the
important free implementation of the X11 stack for many years. XFree86
as a whole software stack was forked by some of it's developers under
the umbrella of X.org, when they became unhappy with the project leader.

X.org has the only relevant X11 implementation today (XFree86 does not
exist anymore), but it's development seems to have slowed down very much
in the last years, probably in favour of Wayland. Recently the project
showed some activity again, as far as I have heard.

My personal opinion: X11 may have some design flaws, but I can live with
them very well, I especially like the network transparency of it, which
Wayland does not offer, AFAIK. I would prefer to see the development
resources invested into X11, instead of Wayland.

Regards,
Christian

-- 
http://www.cb-fraggle.de

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#246338

From황병희 <soyeomul@doraji.xyz>
Date2022-03-16 07:00 +0100
Message-ID<E1uRr-23RU-1@gated-at.bofh.it>
In reply to#246091
Dear Kevin,

Kevin Exton <kcexton01@gmail.com> writes:

> I tried Wayland some years ago now (might have been when they first
> trialled it in Ubuntu) but decided not to stick with it.

Well i don't know my login desktop what it is. Always i use default
values. Currently i'm using Debian 11 Bullseye under Chromebook. That
seems not X11, maybe... And i am happy with the default values.

#+begin_src text
soyeomul@penguin:~$ lsb_release -d
Description:    Debian GNU/Linux 11 (bullseye)
soyeomul@penguin:~$ env | grep wayland
WAYLAND_DISPLAY_LOW_DENSITY=wayland-1
WAYLAND_DISPLAY=wayland-0
#+end_src

Sincerely, Linux fan Byung-Hee

-- 
^고맙습니다 _和合團結_ 감사합니다_^))//

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#246340

FromEmanuel Berg <moasenwood@zoho.eu>
Date2022-03-16 08:00 +0100
Message-ID<E1vNw-24qe-1@gated-at.bofh.it>
In reply to#246338
황병희 wrote:

>> I tried Wayland some years ago now (might have been when
>> they first trialled it in Ubuntu) but decided not to stick
>> with it.
>
> Well i don't know my login desktop what it is.
> WAYLAND_DISPLAY_LOW_DENSITY=wayland-1
> WAYLAND_DISPLAY=wayland-0

  echo $XDG_CURRENT_DESKTOP

Never says anything for me.

-- 
underground experts united
https://dataswamp.org/~incal

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#246341

FromNate Bargmann <n0nb@n0nb.us>
Date2022-03-16 08:20 +0100
Message-ID<E1w6R-24Mk-1@gated-at.bofh.it>
In reply to#246340

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* On 2022 16 Mar 01:53 -0500, Emanuel Berg wrote:
> 황병희 wrote:
> 
> >> I tried Wayland some years ago now (might have been when
> >> they first trialled it in Ubuntu) but decided not to stick
> >> with it.
> >
> > Well i don't know my login desktop what it is.
> > WAYLAND_DISPLAY_LOW_DENSITY=wayland-1
> > WAYLAND_DISPLAY=wayland-0
> 
>   echo $XDG_CURRENT_DESKTOP
> 
> Never says anything for me.

It's possible that environment variable is only set by certain desktops:

$ env | grep -i wayland
XDG_SESSION_TYPE=wayland
XAUTHORITY=/run/user/1000/.mutter-Xwaylandauth.B6TFI1
WAYLAND_DISPLAY=wayland-0
MOZ_ENABLE_WAYLAND=1

$ echo $XDG_CURRENT_DESKTOP
GNOME

- Nate

-- 
"The optimist proclaims that we live in the best of all
possible worlds.  The pessimist fears this is true."
Web: https://www.n0nb.us
Projects: https://github.com/N0NB
GPG fingerprint: 82D6 4F6B 0E67 CD41 F689 BBA6 FB2C 5130 D55A 8819

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#246342

FromEmanuel Berg <moasenwood@zoho.eu>
Date2022-03-16 08:30 +0100
Message-ID<E1wgy-24Pe-1@gated-at.bofh.it>
In reply to#246341
Nate Bargmann wrote:

> It's possible that environment variable is only set by
> certain desktops:

I should set it to "pox" since what it does is just

  picom &
  openbsd-cwm &
  xterm

And maybe do a Linux distro based on pox, Poxix ...

Not sure how much the desktop metaphor is uphold tho?

-- 
underground experts united
https://dataswamp.org/~incal

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#246343

From"Byung-Hee HWANG" <soyeomul@doraji.xyz>
Date2022-03-16 08:40 +0100
Message-ID<E1wqd-24S0-1@gated-at.bofh.it>
In reply to#246340
Hellow Emanuel ^^^

Emanuel Berg <moasenwood@zoho.eu> writes:

> (...)
>   echo $XDG_CURRENT_DESKTOP
>
> Never says anything for me.

Also i don't have $XDG_CURRENT_DESKTOP. Somewhat chromebook's Debian 11
is different from original Debian 11. Though, under Wayland i'm using
GTK-like programs such as GNU Emacs, GIMP, etc. ;;;

Sincerely, Linux fan Byung-Hee

-- 
^고맙습니다 _和合團結_ 감사합니다_^))//

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#246345

FromGreg Wooledge <greg@wooledge.org>
Date2022-03-16 12:40 +0100
Message-ID<E1Aat-277S-1@gated-at.bofh.it>
In reply to#246340
On Wed, Mar 16, 2022 at 07:52:19AM +0100, Emanuel Berg wrote:
> 황병희 wrote:
> 
> >> I tried Wayland some years ago now (might have been when
> >> they first trialled it in Ubuntu) but decided not to stick
> >> with it.
> >
> > Well i don't know my login desktop what it is.
> > WAYLAND_DISPLAY_LOW_DENSITY=wayland-1
> > WAYLAND_DISPLAY=wayland-0
> 
>   echo $XDG_CURRENT_DESKTOP
> 
> Never says anything for me.

unicorn:~$ env | grep XDG
XDG_SEAT=seat0
XDG_SESSION_TYPE=tty
XDG_SESSION_CLASS=user
XDG_VTNR=1
XDG_SESSION_ID=1
XDG_RUNTIME_DIR=/run/user/1000

That's after running "startx" from tty1.  I don't use a Desktop Environment.

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#246347

FromEmanuel Berg <moasenwood@zoho.eu>
Date2022-03-16 13:10 +0100
Message-ID<E1ADv-27wM-7@gated-at.bofh.it>
In reply to#246345
Greg Wooledge wrote:

>>>> I tried Wayland some years ago now (might have been when
>>>> they first trialled it in Ubuntu) but decided not to
>>>> stick with it.
>>>
>>> Well i don't know my login desktop what it is.
>>> WAYLAND_DISPLAY_LOW_DENSITY=wayland-1
>>> WAYLAND_DISPLAY=wayland-0
>> 
>>   echo $XDG_CURRENT_DESKTOP
>> 
>> Never says anything for me.
>
> unicorn:~$ env | grep XDG
> XDG_SEAT=seat0
> XDG_SESSION_TYPE=tty
> XDG_SESSION_CLASS=user
> XDG_VTNR=1
> XDG_SESSION_ID=1
> XDG_RUNTIME_DIR=/run/user/1000
>
> That's after running "startx" from tty1. I don't use
> a Desktop Environment.

I do the same, only I do 'startx -- -nocursor' LOL, no,
compared to your output I get exactly the same except it get

  XDG_SESSION_ID=254

Maybe I restarted X 253 times ...
-- 
underground experts united
https://dataswamp.org/~incal

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#246349

FromEmanuel Berg <moasenwood@zoho.eu>
Date2022-03-16 13:20 +0100
Message-ID<E1ANb-27A2-5@gated-at.bofh.it>
In reply to#246347
Emanuel Berg wrote:

>> That's after running "startx" from tty1. I don't use
>> a Desktop Environment.
>
> I do the same, only I do 'startx -- -nocursor' LOL, no,
> compared to your output I get exactly the same except it get

Oh, actually I start X from /dev/tty6!

xdir=~/x
tty_number=${TTY#/dev/tty}
case $tty_number in
    (1)     lkeys
            make -C ~/.emacs.d/emacs-init
            DISPLAY=":0" nice -n -18 emacs -nw 2> emacs-erros.txt          ;;
    (2|3|4) tmux-new-session-split                                         ;;
    (5)     clear                                                          ;;
    (6)     startx -- -nocursor > ${xdir}/stdout.txt 2> ${xdir}/stderr.txt ;;
esac

X then executes there as well it seems as 'chvt 6' takes me to
X (or stays if I'm there already).

But I have forgotten what problem or situation it is we are
trying to solve ...

https://dataswamp.org/~incal/conf/.zprofile

-- 
underground experts united
https://dataswamp.org/~incal

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#246350

FromEmanuel Berg <moasenwood@zoho.eu>
Date2022-03-16 13:40 +0100
Message-ID<E1B6x-27Gh-3@gated-at.bofh.it>
In reply to#246349
> X then executes there as well it seems as 'chvt 6' takes me
> to X (or stays if I'm there already).

Only works like that if you first do:

  $ sudo chmod +s /bin/chvt

-- 
underground experts united
https://dataswamp.org/~incal

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