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Re: Archiving content of a directory on a DVD-R.

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  Re: Archiving content of a directory on a DVD-R. peter@easthope.ca - 2022-02-26 17:50 +0100
    Re: Archiving content of a directory on a DVD-R. "Thomas Schmitt" <scdbackup@gmx.net> - 2022-02-26 18:30 +0100
      Re (2): Archiving content of a directory on a DVD-R. peter@easthope.ca - 2022-02-27 02:20 +0100
        Re: Archiving content of a directory on a DVD-R. "Thomas Schmitt" <scdbackup@gmx.net> - 2022-02-27 09:20 +0100
          Archiving on optical media; was Re: Archiving content of a directory on a DVD-R. peter@easthope.ca - 2022-02-28 07:20 +0100
            Re: Archiving on optical media "Thomas Schmitt" <scdbackup@gmx.net> - 2022-02-28 09:00 +0100
              Re (2): Archiving on optical media peter@easthope.ca - 2022-02-28 18:40 +0100
            Archiving on SD cards (was: Re: Archiving on optical media; was Re: Archiving content of a directory on a DVD-R.) rhkramer@gmail.com - 2022-02-28 16:00 +0100
              Re: Archiving on SD cards (was: Re: Archiving on optical media; was Re:    Archiving content of a directory on a DVD-R.) Chris Ramsden <chris.ramsden@gmail.com> - 2022-02-28 17:40 +0100
              Re (2): Archiving on optical media peter@easthope.ca - 2022-02-28 19:30 +0100
                Re: Re (2): Archiving on optical media conover@panix.com (John Conover) - 2022-02-28 20:20 +0100

#245697 — Re: Archiving content of a directory on a DVD-R.

    From: "Thomas Schmitt" <scdbackup@gmx.net>
    Date: Wed, 06 Mar 2019 17:28:39 +0100
>   xorriso -for_backup -dev /dev/sr0 \
>           -update_r . / \ 
>           -commit \
>           -toc -check_md5 failure -- \ 
>           -eject all 

With a blank disk, 
...
xorriso : FAILURE : Image size 1072576s exceeds free space on media 359844s
libisofs: MISHAP : Image write cancelled
...

root@joule:/home/root# df | grep sd
/dev/sda1        6227904 4218756   1673072  72% /
/dev/sda4       25764060 4672576  19759672  20% /home
/dev/sdb1        3658244 2214144   1258252  64% /home/root/MY

Building temporary data structures in / space is limited?

How can xorriso to told to work in /home?

Thx,               ... P.

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#245698

Hi,

peter@easthope.ca wrote:
> With a blank disk,
> xorriso : FAILURE : Image size 1072576s exceeds free space on media 359844s

359844 * 2048 = 736,960,512 bytes = 702.82 MiB.
This looks more like the size of a "700 MB" CD-R medium.


> Building temporary data structures in / space is limited?

Not in particular. Processing of directories with very many files can
become a bit sloww. There is memory needed for each file name and its
attribute when the emerging ISO 9660 filesystemi s planned. But unless
you have millions of files this should not be a problem even with an
old computer.

The FAILURE complaint rather says that libburn told xorriso that the
medium offers ~700 MiB for writing. But the emerging ISO 9660 filesystem
would need 2094.875 MiB of medium capacity.
A blank DVD-R would take that filesystem. A blank CD-R would not.


Question:
What messages do you get printed when the CD-or-DVD medium is inserted
and you do:

  xorriso -outdev /dev/sr0 -toc

With a blank "700 MB" CD-R i get:

  Drive current: -outdev '/dev/sr0'
  Media current: CD-R
  Media status : is blank
  Media summary: 0 sessions, 0 data blocks, 0 data,  703m free
  Drive current: -outdev '/dev/sr0'
  Drive access : exclusive:unrestricted
  Drive type   : vendor 'ASUS' product 'BW-16D1HT' revision '1.01'
  Drive id     : 'K9CF92A5012 '
  Media current: CD-R
  Media product: 97m34s23f/79m59s73f , Mitsubishi Chemical Corporation
  Media status : is blank
  Media blocks : 0 readable , 359846 writable , 359846 overall
  Media summary: 0 sessions, 0 data blocks, 0 data,  703m free

(The capacity of CD-R varies by nominal size: "650 MB", ... "900 MB"
 and in smaller range between manufacturers which use the exact start
 and end address to distinguish their products from other companies.)

With a blank DVD-R i get:

  Drive current: -outdev '/dev/sr0'
  Media current: DVD-R sequential recording
  Media status : is blank
  Media summary: 0 sessions, 0 data blocks, 0 data, 4489m free
  Drive current: -outdev '/dev/sr0'
  Drive access : exclusive:unrestricted
  Drive type   : vendor 'ASUS' product 'BW-16D1HT' revision '1.01'
  Drive id     : 'K9CF92A5012 '
  Media current: DVD-R sequential recording
  Media product: RITEKF1 , Ritek Corp
  Media status : is blank
  Media blocks : 0 readable , 2298496 writable , 2298496 overall
  Media summary: 0 sessions, 0 data blocks, 0 data, 4489m free


Have a nice day :)

Thomas

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#245705 — Re (2): Archiving content of a directory on a DVD-R.

    From: "Thomas Schmitt" <scdbackup@gmx.net>
    Date: Sat, 26 Feb 2022 18:29:45 +0100
> What messages do you get printed when the CD-or-DVD medium is inserted
> and you do:
> 
>   xorriso -outdev /dev/sr0 -toc

root@joule:/home/root# xorriso -outdev /dev/sr0 -toc
xorriso 1.5.2 : RockRidge filesystem manipulator, libburnia project.

Drive current: -outdev '/dev/sr0'
Media current: CD-R
Media status : is blank
Media summary: 0 sessions, 0 data blocks, 0 data,  703m free
Drive current: -outdev '/dev/sr0'
Drive access : exclusive:unrestricted
Drive type   : vendor 'SONY' product 'CD-RW CRX320E' revision 'NYK2'
Media current: CD-R
Media product: 97m26s66f/79m59s71f , CMC Magnetics Corporation
Media status : is blank
Media blocks : 0 readable , 359844 writable , 359844 overall
Media summary: 0 sessions, 0 data blocks, 0 data,  703m free
root@joule:/home/root# 

Thanks.  I should have read the fine print at the center of the disk.

To squeeze the data, add -zisofs.

FilesToDVD () { \
  printf "Insert open or new DVD-R.";
  read t;
  cd ~/MY0.Bak/;
  xorriso -for_backup -dev /dev/sr0 \
          -update_r . / \
          -zisofs \
          -commit \
          -toc -check_md5 failure -- \
          -eject all ;
}

I have a supply of CD-Rs and DVDs aren't accessible at present. 
Likely xorriso provides a way to spread an archive over multiple CDs.  
Documentation or example?

Thx,                               ... P.


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#245706

Hi,

peter@easthope.ca wrote:
> Drive type   : vendor 'SONY' product 'CD-RW CRX320E' revision 'NYK2'

Ouch. That's a "Combo" drive which can write only CD-R and CD-RW.
With DVD media it can only do reading.

So there is no use buying writable DVDs for it.


> To squeeze the data, add -zisofs.

This can help if the data are compressible by a factor 3.
But that would be quite boring data.


>  xorriso -for_backup -dev /dev/sr0 \
>          -update_r . / \
>          -zisofs \
>          -commit \

Command -zisofs sets parameters for the compression. It needs an argument
or else it would eat the command -commit and complain that it is not
a suitable parameter for -zisofs.

To cause the files to be compressed you have to equip them by zisofs
filters. For best and slowest compression choose zlib level 9:

  xorriso -for_backup -dev /dev/sr0 \
          -update_r . / \
          -zisofs level=9 \
          -find / -type f -pending_data -exec set_filter --zisofs -- \
          -commit \
          ...

----------------------------------------------------------------------

> Likely xorriso provides a way to spread an archive over multiple CDs.
> Documentation or example?

That would be the job of an older project of mine:
  http://scdbackup.sourceforge.net/main_eng.html
  http://scdbackup.sourceforge.net/scdbackup-0.9.2.tar.gz

Installation and configuration are some work:
  http://scdbackup.sourceforge.net/examples.html#configure

(That's a reason why it is not in Debian. Another reason is that scdbackup
gets installed by particular users, which is good for isolating their
backup data but not suitable for the sysadmin-driven model of a Linux
distro.)

For building the software you need the C compiler and its companions
from Debian package "build-essential". Compilation happens automatically
during the run of ./CONFIGURE_CD or ./CONFIGURE_DVD.

After the installation you may simply run

  scdbackup_home

See
  http://scdbackup.sourceforge.net/examples.html#scdbackup_home

The more general command

  scdbackup

takes pathspecs as known from mkisofs and exclusions of paths:

  scdbackup /home /home2=/usr/home -not /home/guest

This example backups /home and /usr/home . It gives on CD the name /home2
to the directory tree that is /usr/home on hard disk. Subdir /home/guest
will not get into the backup.

(Back in 1999 a 650 MB CD-R was a respectable backup medium, competing
with 500 MB QIC tapes and 1.2 GB DDS tapes.
Nowadays i use them only for small backups and for software delivery.
My bread-and-butter backup media are now "25 GB" BD-RE media. They are
not much more expensive than DVD+RW. Only the prices of burner drives
are significantly higher for BD than for DVD.)


Have a nice day :)

Thomas

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#245718 — Archiving on optical media; was Re: Archiving content of a directory on a DVD-R.

    From: "Thomas Schmitt" <scdbackup@gmx.net>
    Date: Sun, 27 Feb 2022 09:15:04 +0100
> Ouch. That's a "Combo" drive which can write only CD-R and CD-RW.
> With DVD media it can only do reading.
  ...
> That would be the job of an older project of mine:
>   http://scdbackup.sourceforge.net/main_eng.html
>   http://scdbackup.sourceforge.net/scdbackup-0.9.2.tar.gz
> 
> Installation and configuration are some work:
>   http://scdbackup.sourceforge.net/examples.html#configure
  ...
> (Back in 1999 a 650 MB CD-R was a respectable backup medium, competing
> with 500 MB QIC tapes and 1.2 GB DDS tapes.
> Nowadays i use them only for small backups and for software delivery.
> My bread-and-butter backup media are now "25 GB" BD-RE media. They are
> not much more expensive than DVD+RW. Only the prices of burner drives
> are significantly higher for BD than for DVD.)

My conclusion: invest in more recent hardware.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blu-ray_Disc_recordable#Pricing

Backing data in a 4 or 16 GB SD card is a modest requirement.  
PC Galore might have a drive in stock.  http://www.pcgalore.com/

Tips to select a drive welcome.

Thanks,                     ... P.


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#245719 — Re: Archiving on optical media

Hi,

> My conclusion: invest in more recent hardware.
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blu-ray_Disc_recordable#Pricing

Those prices are slightly optimistic. But not too much.


> Tips to select a drive welcome.

Beware of "Combo" drives. Make sure the product description mentions
_write_ speed for BD-RE and BD-R, not only read speed for BD-ROM.
("Combo" drives are usually a bit cheaper than real BD burners.)

Buy from a seller who takes defective or wrongly chosen hardware back
without offering much resistance.
The quality of new drives varies much more individually than by the
brand or manufacturer. (Even 80 EUR are not enough to pay for a
convincing quality management in the factory.)

If my ASUS BW-16D1HT would die, i would by a new one of the same model.
It is the only one which writes more than 128 sessions to a single BD-R.

Another good drive which i have and is still at sale is LG BH16NS40.

I would not buy a new Pioneer BDR-S09 in the next years because mine
creates cracks on contemporary Verbatim BD-RE media after reading
them a dozen times. The cracks start at the inner hole and eventually
reach the recording area which then causes read failure.
I did not observe this damage with RITEK BD-RE, which are sold by about
any brand except Verbatim, or with older Verbatim BD-RE media.
(I'd blame the problem on the 10x read speed of the drive, its hard
grip on the medium, and the little engraved letters at the inner rim
of the modern Verbatim BD-RE. Forcing the drive to read more slowly
protects the victim media. It does not react on speed setting commands
but only slows down when i let the reader program wait between read
operations.)

I have no experience with slim BD drives which are sold in USB enclosures.
My USB attached drives are full-height "internal" drives which i put
into USB boxes which cost nearly as much as the drives.
("Man goennt sich ja sonst nichts." = I hardly grant myself anything else.)


Have a nice day :)

Thomas

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#245730 — Re (2): Archiving on optical media

From:	"Thomas Schmitt" <scdbackup@gmx.net>
Date:	Mon, 28 Feb 2022 08:55:40 +0100
> Beware of "Combo" drives. Make sure the product description mentions
> _write_ speed for BD-RE and BD-R, not only read speed for BD-ROM.
> ("Combo" drives are usually a bit cheaper than real BD burners.)

Critical point, thanks.

> Buy from a seller who takes defective or wrongly chosen hardware back
> without offering much resistance.

First stop will be PC Galore which mostly sells used equipment.  
They're knowledgeable and honest. If nothing there is suitable will go 
to the big retailers where sales clerks can be unhelpful.

> The quality of new drives varies much more individually than by the
> brand or manufacturer. (Even 80 EUR are not enough to pay for a
> convincing quality management in the factory.)

Your instructions in 2019 were used with a DVD burner at work.
Completely effective.  Thanks.  The current interest is to establish 
backups at home.

Considering the earlier experience and modest quantity of data (< 2 
GB) another DVD drive might be adequate.  Will see what is at PC 
Galore.

Thx,                                     ... P.

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#245720 — Archiving on SD cards (was: Re: Archiving on optical media; was Re: Archiving content of a directory on a DVD-R.)

On Monday, February 28, 2022 12:37:49 AM peter@easthope.ca wrote:
> Backing data in a 4 or 16 GB SD card is a modest requirement.
> PC Galore might have a drive in stock.  http://www.pcgalore.com/

What has been your experience with reliability of SD cards for backup?

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#245725 — Re: Archiving on SD cards (was: Re: Archiving on optical media; was Re: Archiving content of a directory on a DVD-R.)

Monday, February 28, 2022, 2:52:35 PM, rhkramer wrote:

> On Monday, February 28, 2022 12:37:49 AM peter@easthope.ca wrote:
>> Backing data in a 4 or 16 GB SD card is a modest requirement.
>> PC Galore might have a drive in stock.  http://www.pcgalore.com/
> What has been your experience with reliability of SD cards for backup?

Mine has been bad. I have accumulated several dead SD cards, yet over many years, I can think of only one USB memory device failing. 
 
USB and SD memory devices are based on similar (if not identical) flash technology, are they not? 
 
Under this assumption, I'd guess that the USB interface is rather more robust than that found in SD cards. SD cards seem to be fine if installed and left there (IP cameras, dashcams, phones) but fail when handled. And yes, I am aware of ESD (electrostatic discharge) issues and take steps to minimize risk. 
 
I wouldn't trust my data to SD cards.   
-- 
Regards,
Chris

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#245731 — Re (2): Archiving on optical media

    From: rhkramer@gmail.com
    Date: Mon, 28 Feb 2022 09:52:35 -0500
> What has been your experience with reliability of SD cards for backup?

My explanation was ambiguous.  =8~|  The primary medium here is SD.  
The backup is optical. 

The oldest SD card I have was purchased about 2012.  The label was 
NextTech. Purchased via eBay from a seller in Ontario or Quebec.  It's 
been reformatted 2 or 3 times over the years and still works.  =8~)  
Recently parts of some files disappeared or showed garbled 
information. The card has served better than I expected.  Probably due 
for retirement.  =8~)

Since 2012 I've purchased three Kingston 8 GB SDs.  Two are used in 
mobile phones; one is system store in a OLPC XO 1.5.  Those SDs 
continue to work with no apparent difficulties.

General policy.  Buy only name brands: Kingston, SanDisk, Lexar & etc. 
Buy only from local businesses maintaining a reputation in the 
marketplace.  Noname cards only waste time and money. 

Regardless of reliability of a specific medium, data preservation 
comes from a good backup system.  =8~)

Regards,                            ... P.





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#245737 — Re: Re (2): Archiving on optical media

peter@easthope.ca writes:
>     From: rhkramer@gmail.com
>     Date: Mon, 28 Feb 2022 09:52:35 -0500
> > What has been your experience with reliability of SD cards for backup?
> 
> My explanation was ambiguous.  =8~|  The primary medium here is SD.  
> The backup is optical. 
> 
> The oldest SD card I have was purchased about 2012.  The label was 
> NextTech. Purchased via eBay from a seller in Ontario or Quebec.  It's 
> been reformatted 2 or 3 times over the years and still works.  =8~)  
> Recently parts of some files disappeared or showed garbled 
> information. The card has served better than I expected.  Probably due 
> for retirement.  =8~)
> 
> Since 2012 I've purchased three Kingston 8 GB SDs.  Two are used in 
> mobile phones; one is system store in a OLPC XO 1.5.  Those SDs 
> continue to work with no apparent difficulties.
> 
> General policy.  Buy only name brands: Kingston, SanDisk, Lexar & etc. 
> Buy only from local businesses maintaining a reputation in the 
> marketplace.  Noname cards only waste time and money.
>

Also, make sure the SD manufacturing technology has wear
leveling. Many cheap SDs do NOT. (They are manufactured in out dated
facilities.)

If used for backups, write the file, then write the check sum of the
file, (perhaps using something linke md5sum(1),) to the disk, with the
same file name plus an extension, so that md5sum can be used to check
the integrity of the data before installing the backup.

For long term archival data, use a new SD, and write once, (perhaps on
multiple SDs, for file reconstruction; any corrupt file on one SD can
probably be retrieved from another SD.) Store at STP for the plastics.

> 
> Regardless of reliability of a specific medium, data preservation 
> comes from a good backup system.  =8~)
>

    John

-- 

John Conover, conover@panix.com, http://www.johncon.com/

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