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Request free live CD

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  Request free live CD Dozzyjean Dozie <info.dozzyjeandozie@gmail.com> - 2022-02-10 15:30 +0100
    Re: Request free live CD <tomas@tuxteam.de> - 2022-02-10 16:50 +0100
      Re: Request free live CD Celejar <celejar@gmail.com> - 2022-02-11 02:10 +0100
        Re: Request free live CD fxkl47BF@protonmail.com - 2022-02-11 02:30 +0100
        Re: Request free live CD Bijan Soleymani <bijan@psq.com> - 2022-02-11 03:00 +0100
          Re: Request free live CD Celejar <celejar@gmail.com> - 2022-02-11 03:30 +0100
            Re: Request free live CD Dan Ritter <dsr@randomstring.org> - 2022-02-11 15:20 +0100
              Re: Request free live CD Celejar <celejar@gmail.com> - 2022-02-11 15:30 +0100
            Re: Request free live CD Bijan Soleymani <bijan@psq.com> - 2022-02-12 04:50 +0100
        Re: Request free live CD <tomas@tuxteam.de> - 2022-02-11 07:30 +0100
        Re: Request free live CD "Thomas Schmitt" <scdbackup@gmx.net> - 2022-02-11 09:00 +0100
          Re: Request free live CD Celejar <celejar@gmail.com> - 2022-02-11 14:50 +0100
            Re: Request free live CD "Thomas Schmitt" <scdbackup@gmx.net> - 2022-02-11 20:40 +0100
              Re: Request free live CD Celejar <celejar@gmail.com> - 2022-02-11 20:50 +0100
                Re: Request free live CD Brad Rogers <brad@fineby.me.uk> - 2022-02-11 21:10 +0100
                Re: Request free live CD "Thomas Schmitt" <scdbackup@gmx.net> - 2022-02-11 22:20 +0100
                Re: Request free live CD rhkramer@gmail.com - 2022-02-12 01:20 +0100
                  Re: Request free live CD Celejar <celejar@gmail.com> - 2022-02-14 15:10 +0100
        Re: Request free live CD Andrei POPESCU <andreimpopescu@gmail.com> - 2022-02-12 14:10 +0100
          Re: Request free live CD Celejar <celejar@gmail.com> - 2022-02-14 22:50 +0100
        Re: Request free live CD Curt <curty@free.fr> - 2022-02-13 13:40 +0100
          Re: Request free live CD Celejar <celejar@gmail.com> - 2022-02-14 16:10 +0100
            Re: Request free live CD Dan Ritter <dsr@randomstring.org> - 2022-02-14 17:10 +0100
            Re: Request free live CD Curt <curty@free.fr> - 2022-02-14 17:30 +0100
        Re: Request free live CD Pierre-Elliott Bécue <peb@debian.org> - 2022-02-14 17:30 +0100

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#245175 — Request free live CD

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Please I will be very much interested to get a live CD from you, please
what are the prerequisites that are needed to be archived this request free
cd for free from you.

Thanks
Dozie Dozzyjean

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#245179

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On Thu, Feb 10, 2022 at 03:05:26PM +0100, Dozzyjean Dozie wrote:
> Please I will be very much interested to get a live CD from you, please
> what are the prerequisites that are needed to be archived this request free
> cd for free from you.

See here:

  https://www.debian.org/CD/free-linux-cd

Since burning a CD and putting into the mail costs money, you can't
expect someone doing it for you. In the above page it is explained
how you can either download an image and burn it yourself, or order
it from a service (there is a list linked from the above page), but
then, you'll have to pay. Prices are not very high, though.

Cheers
-- 
t

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#245195

On Thu, 10 Feb 2022 16:47:18 +0100
<tomas@tuxteam.de> wrote:

> On Thu, Feb 10, 2022 at 03:05:26PM +0100, Dozzyjean Dozie wrote:
> > Please I will be very much interested to get a live CD from you, please
> > what are the prerequisites that are needed to be archived this request free
> > cd for free from you.
> 
> See here:
> 
>   https://www.debian.org/CD/free-linux-cd
> 
> Since burning a CD and putting into the mail costs money, you can't
> expect someone doing it for you. In the above page it is explained

I'm genuinely curious about this: time and money are both scarce and
precious resources. Why is there an assumption that people will gladly
donate of their time to help others, but not their money? Is it because
the assumption is that the person asking for help should just spend
his own money, but may not be able to solve his problem by spending his
own time?

Celejar

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#245196

On Thu, 10 Feb 2022, Celejar wrote:

> On Thu, 10 Feb 2022 16:47:18 +0100
> <tomas@tuxteam.de> wrote:
>
>> On Thu, Feb 10, 2022 at 03:05:26PM +0100, Dozzyjean Dozie wrote:
>>> Please I will be very much interested to get a live CD from you, please
>>> what are the prerequisites that are needed to be archived this request free
>>> cd for free from you.
>>
>> See here:
>>
>>   https://www.debian.org/CD/free-linux-cd
>>
>> Since burning a CD and putting into the mail costs money, you can't
>> expect someone doing it for you. In the above page it is explained
>
> I'm genuinely curious about this: time and money are both scarce and
> precious resources. Why is there an assumption that people will gladly
> donate of their time to help others, but not their money? Is it because
> the assumption is that the person asking for help should just spend
> his own money, but may not be able to solve his problem by spending his
> own time?
>
> Celejar
>

What ????

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#245198

On 2022-02-10 20:05, Celejar wrote:
> I'm genuinely curious about this: time and money are both scarce and
> precious resources. Why is there an assumption that people will gladly
> donate of their time to help others, but not their money? Is it because
> the assumption is that the person asking for help should just spend
> his own money, but may not be able to solve his problem by spending his
> own time?

I think this is the distinction between free speech and free beer (two 
different meanings of the word free in English).

That is the difference between freedom (no restrictions), and something 
being gratis (no cost).

Debian is committed to free software, as in users are free to modify the 
software, and they have access to the source code.

Debian is not a charity that provides free hardware to people who need 
computers.

Since there is not much cost to distributing software online Debian does 
so for free (on their servers and through mirrors), but the important 
goal is that the users who get the software have the freedom to modify it.
See:
https://www.debian.org/social_contract#guidelines

and

https://www.gnu.org/philosophy/free-sw.en.html

(the related point in the Debian Free Software Guidelines that there 
cannot be a fee required to distribute the software, doesn't mean that 
one can't charge a fee (for either a CD or download), but rather that 
one can't put requirements on further redistribution after that)

Bijan

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#245199

On Thu, 10 Feb 2022 20:51:42 -0500
Bijan Soleymani <bijan@psq.com> wrote:

> On 2022-02-10 20:05, Celejar wrote:
> > I'm genuinely curious about this: time and money are both scarce and
> > precious resources. Why is there an assumption that people will gladly
> > donate of their time to help others, but not their money? Is it because
> > the assumption is that the person asking for help should just spend
> > his own money, but may not be able to solve his problem by spending his
> > own time?
> 
> I think this is the distinction between free speech and free beer (two 
> different meanings of the word free in English).
> 
> That is the difference between freedom (no restrictions), and something 
> being gratis (no cost).
> 
> Debian is committed to free software, as in users are free to modify the 
> software, and they have access to the source code.
> 
> Debian is not a charity that provides free hardware to people who need 
> computers.
> 
> Since there is not much cost to distributing software online Debian does 
> so for free (on their servers and through mirrors), but the important 
> goal is that the users who get the software have the freedom to modify it.
> See:
> https://www.debian.org/social_contract#guidelines
> 
> and
> 
> https://www.gnu.org/philosophy/free-sw.en.html
> 
> (the related point in the Debian Free Software Guidelines that there 
> cannot be a fee required to distribute the software, doesn't mean that 
> one can't charge a fee (for either a CD or download), but rather that 
> one can't put requirements on further redistribution after that)

I do understand and agree with this, but my point was that we (at least
the more helpful of us) on this list are perfectly willing to freely
give of our time to help others, so why would we (at least those of us
fortunate enough to have disposable income to spare) not be willing to
give of our money as well to help others who need it?

Celejar

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#245225

Celejar wrote: 
> 
> I do understand and agree with this, but my point was that we (at least
> the more helpful of us) on this list are perfectly willing to freely
> give of our time to help others, so why would we (at least those of us
> fortunate enough to have disposable income to spare) not be willing to
> give of our money as well to help others who need it?

That's easy: time is much more effective than money in this
context.

If you answer a question on this mailing list, it is recorded
and can be searched; hundreds or thousands of people can be
helped.

If you fix a bug in a major package, millions of people will be
helped.

If you donate the money that you make in an hour to postage and
media for DVDs or USB sticks, somewhere between a fraction of a
person and a couple of hundred will be helped -- for an average
US income, about 2 USB sticks.

Money is great, but it is needed in business-sized quantities.
Any individual person with skills makes the community better off by
answering questions and fixing bugs than they would by donating
the equivalent time in money.

As a corollary, if you can spend a couple of hours convincing a
business that runs Debian to donate some money, that's probably
an excellent use of your time.

-dsr-

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#245226

On Fri, 11 Feb 2022 09:00:22 -0500
Dan Ritter <dsr@randomstring.org> wrote:

> Celejar wrote: 
> > 
> > I do understand and agree with this, but my point was that we (at least
> > the more helpful of us) on this list are perfectly willing to freely
> > give of our time to help others, so why would we (at least those of us
> > fortunate enough to have disposable income to spare) not be willing to
> > give of our money as well to help others who need it?
> 
> That's easy: time is much more effective than money in this
> context.
> 
> If you answer a question on this mailing list, it is recorded
> and can be searched; hundreds or thousands of people can be
> helped.
> 
> If you fix a bug in a major package, millions of people will be
> helped.

Fair points, certainly, although many people spend much time even on
very minor packages, and on helping people with very niche questions,
where their answers are really unlikely to help hundreds or thousands
of people.

> If you donate the money that you make in an hour to postage and
> media for DVDs or USB sticks, somewhere between a fraction of a
> person and a couple of hundred will be helped -- for an average
> US income, about 2 USB sticks.
> 
> Money is great, but it is needed in business-sized quantities.
> Any individual person with skills makes the community better off by
> answering questions and fixing bugs than they would by donating
> the equivalent time in money.
> 
> As a corollary, if you can spend a couple of hours convincing a
> business that runs Debian to donate some money, that's probably
> an excellent use of your time.

Indeed.

Celejar

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#245268

On 2022-02-10 21:25, Celejar wrote:
> I do understand and agree with this, but my point was that we (at least
> the more helpful of us) on this list are perfectly willing to freely
> give of our time to help others, so why would we (at least those of us
> fortunate enough to have disposable income to spare) not be willing to
> give of our money as well to help others who need it?

This does bring up two related points:

1. When you give time to help someone else it generally helps you too.

In the sense that if you help out on this mailing list, trying to figure 
out how to help solve other people's problems, you learn about solutions 
that can be helpful to you as well. And you learn more about how systems 
work in general.

If you maintain a package or write free software, it's generally 
packages or software that you yourself would find useful.

When it comes to money, it often does not help you. Burning a live CD 
and mailing it to someone else, involves both time and money but doesn't 
help you.

2. In this specific scenario of live CD, there's an element of the 
saying, give someone a fish and you feed them for a day, teach them how 
to fish and you feed them for a lifetime.

So you send this CD and they run or install the current version of the 
OS. Later on their system breaks down or they get a new one, or they 
want the next version of the OS, and what do they do then?

Bijan

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#245210

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On Thu, Feb 10, 2022 at 08:05:32PM -0500, Celejar wrote:
> On Thu, 10 Feb 2022 16:47:18 +0100
> <tomas@tuxteam.de> wrote:
> 
> > On Thu, Feb 10, 2022 at 03:05:26PM +0100, Dozzyjean Dozie wrote:
> > > Please I will be very much interested to get a live CD from you, please
> > > what are the prerequisites that are needed to be archived this request free
> > > cd for free from you.
> > 
> > See here:
> > 
> >   https://www.debian.org/CD/free-linux-cd
> > 
> > Since burning a CD and putting into the mail costs money, you can't
> > expect someone doing it for you. In the above page it is explained
> 
> I'm genuinely curious about this: time and money are both scarce and
> precious resources. Why is there an assumption that people will gladly
> donate of their time to help others, but not their money? Is it because
> the assumption is that the person asking for help should just spend
> his own money, but may not be able to solve his problem by spending his
> own time?

I can answer that only for myself: currently I've more decision power
over my time than over my money. Were this the other way around, I might
decide the other way around, too :-)

Cheers
-- 
t

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#245212

Hi,

Celejar wrote:
> Why is there an assumption that people will gladly
> donate of their time to help others, but not their money?

Let me quote from a classic british play:

  The Doctor:   "Do i pay you ? I should give you a raise."
  Clara Oswald: "You're not my boss, you're my hobby."


Have a nice day :)

Thomas

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#245224

On Fri, 11 Feb 2022 08:58:51 +0100
"Thomas Schmitt" <scdbackup@gmx.net> wrote:

> Hi,
> 
> Celejar wrote:
> > Why is there an assumption that people will gladly
> > donate of their time to help others, but not their money?
> 
> Let me quote from a classic british play:
> 
>   The Doctor:   "Do i pay you ? I should give you a raise."
>   Clara Oswald: "You're not my boss, you're my hobby."

I found the quote:

https://www.tvfanatic.com/quotes/youre-not-my-boss-youre-my-hobby/

But I think I'm missing your point. Explain, please?

Celejar

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#245242

Hi,

i wrote:
> >   Clara Oswald: "You're not my boss, you're my hobby."

Celejar wrote:
> I think I'm missing your point. Explain, please?

I contribute time because i like to do so.
Less entertaining would be to give away an optical medium,
to buy post stamps, and to reveil my real world postal address.


Have a nice day :)

Thomas

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#245245

On Fri, 11 Feb 2022 20:33:45 +0100
"Thomas Schmitt" <scdbackup@gmx.net> wrote:

> Hi,
> 
> i wrote:
> > >   Clara Oswald: "You're not my boss, you're my hobby."
> 
> Celejar wrote:
> > I think I'm missing your point. Explain, please?
> 
> I contribute time because i like to do so.
> Less entertaining would be to give away an optical medium,
> to buy post stamps, and to reveil my real world postal address.

Fair enough, although the question then is why we enjoy giving of our
time but not our money. I assume that a primary motive of many (I can't
speak for anyone in particular, of course) who give of their time is a
desire to help others, and the act of helping others is what provides
enjoyment to them, so then the question is why they would not enjoy
helping others with financial contributions.

Celejar

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#245247

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On Fri, 11 Feb 2022 14:44:26 -0500
Celejar <celejar@gmail.com> wrote:

Hello Celejar,

>enjoyment to them, so then the question is why they would not enjoy
>helping others with financial contributions.

Most of us can afford to give up some time.  Not everyone can afford to
give up money.

I'm fortunate in being able to give up some of both.  For that reason, I
donate to various FLOSS projects annually.  It changes year to year, but
I've donated to various FLOSS projects over the years.

-- 
 Regards  _
         / )      "The blindingly obvious is never immediately apparent"
        / _)rad   "Is it only me that has a working delete key?"
They really dig me man, and I dig them
To Be Someone (Didn't We Have A Nice Time) - The Jam

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#245255

Hi,

Celejar wrote:
> the question then is why we enjoy giving of our
> time but not our money.

In my case it is because contributing to free software is not the same as
sacrificing something that i could use more selfishly.
I want it, i do it. That's paradise for a limited time.


> why they would not enjoy
> helping others with financial contributions.

I have helped friends in need in the past.
It has its own emotional rewards to do the right thing when necessary
and possible. But i would not compare them with the state of mind when
thinking about software or other interesting riddles.


Have a nice day :)

Thomas

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#245263

On Friday, February 11, 2022 02:44:26 PM Celejar wrote:
> Fair enough, although the question then is why we enjoy giving of our
> time but not our money. I assume that a primary motive of many (I can't
> speak for anyone in particular, of course) who give of their time is a
> desire to help others, and the act of helping others is what provides
> enjoyment to them, so then the question is why they would not enjoy
> helping others with financial contributions.

For me, it is easier (emotionally) to give time rather than money.  Although 
I'm not too bad off re money, I don't get my supply renewed everyday (well, for 
the most part, I do now get SS (in the US).

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#245371

On Fri, 11 Feb 2022 19:10:58 -0500
rhkramer@gmail.com wrote:

> On Friday, February 11, 2022 02:44:26 PM Celejar wrote:
> > Fair enough, although the question then is why we enjoy giving of our
> > time but not our money. I assume that a primary motive of many (I can't
> > speak for anyone in particular, of course) who give of their time is a
> > desire to help others, and the act of helping others is what provides
> > enjoyment to them, so then the question is why they would not enjoy
> > helping others with financial contributions.
> 
> For me, it is easier (emotionally) to give time rather than money.  Although 
> I'm not too bad off re money, I don't get my supply renewed everyday (well, for 
> the most part, I do now get SS (in the US).

True. On the other hand, one's time on this earth is limited, while
money is, at least for some, less of a rigid constraint.

Celejar

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#245280

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On Jo, 10 feb 22, 20:05:32, Celejar wrote:
> On Thu, 10 Feb 2022 16:47:18 +0100
> <tomas@tuxteam.de> wrote:
> 
> > On Thu, Feb 10, 2022 at 03:05:26PM +0100, Dozzyjean Dozie wrote:
> > > Please I will be very much interested to get a live CD from you, please
> > > what are the prerequisites that are needed to be archived this request free
> > > cd for free from you.
> > 
> > See here:
> > 
> >   https://www.debian.org/CD/free-linux-cd
> > 
> > Since burning a CD and putting into the mail costs money, you can't
> > expect someone doing it for you. In the above page it is explained
> 
> I'm genuinely curious about this: time and money are both scarce and
> precious resources. Why is there an assumption that people will gladly
> donate of their time to help others, but not their money? Is it because
> the assumption is that the person asking for help should just spend
> his own money, but may not be able to solve his problem by spending his
> own time?

Assuming I might have a decent internet connection, a disc burner and 
spare blank media I might consider helping out.

However, this particular request feels too much like someone just 
wanting to take advantage of some freebie ("hey, I heard you give out 
stuff for free so I want some"), as opposed to someone in real need 
(hey, internet here is slow and/or metered, media burners are nowhere to 
be found, etc., could someone help out?").

Kind regards,
Andrei
-- 
http://wiki.debian.org/FAQsFromDebianUser

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#245387

On Sat, 12 Feb 2022 14:09:29 +0100
Andrei POPESCU <andreimpopescu@gmail.com> wrote:

> On Jo, 10 feb 22, 20:05:32, Celejar wrote:
> > On Thu, 10 Feb 2022 16:47:18 +0100
> > <tomas@tuxteam.de> wrote:
> > 
> > > On Thu, Feb 10, 2022 at 03:05:26PM +0100, Dozzyjean Dozie wrote:
> > > > Please I will be very much interested to get a live CD from you, please
> > > > what are the prerequisites that are needed to be archived this request free
> > > > cd for free from you.
> > > 
> > > See here:
> > > 
> > >   https://www.debian.org/CD/free-linux-cd
> > > 
> > > Since burning a CD and putting into the mail costs money, you can't
> > > expect someone doing it for you. In the above page it is explained
> > 
> > I'm genuinely curious about this: time and money are both scarce and
> > precious resources. Why is there an assumption that people will gladly
> > donate of their time to help others, but not their money? Is it because
> > the assumption is that the person asking for help should just spend
> > his own money, but may not be able to solve his problem by spending his
> > own time?
> 
> Assuming I might have a decent internet connection, a disc burner and 
> spare blank media I might consider helping out.
> 
> However, this particular request feels too much like someone just 
> wanting to take advantage of some freebie ("hey, I heard you give out 
> stuff for free so I want some"), as opposed to someone in real need 
> (hey, internet here is slow and/or metered, media burners are nowhere to 
> be found, etc., could someone help out?").

Totally understandable. Just to be clear, I did not mean to criticize
or accuse anyone of irrationality or hypocrisy - I was just curious
about the mindsets of open source devotees.

Celejar

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