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Groups > linux.debian.user > #244003 > unrolled thread
| Started by | Marco Möller <talby@debianlists.mobilxpress.net> |
|---|---|
| First post | 2022-01-15 11:30 +0100 |
| Last post | 2022-01-25 07:40 +0100 |
| Articles | 19 on this page of 79 — 22 participants |
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Why did Norbert Preining (having maintained KDE) left Debian? Marco Möller <talby@debianlists.mobilxpress.net> - 2022-01-15 11:30 +0100
Re: Why did Norbert Preining (having maintained KDE) left Debian? Andy Smith <andy@strugglers.net> - 2022-01-15 13:40 +0100
Re: Why did Norbert Preining (having maintained KDE) left Debian? Anders Andersson <pipatron@gmail.com> - 2022-01-16 17:20 +0100
Re: Why did Norbert Preining (having maintained KDE) left Debian? Pierre-Elliott Bécue <peb@debian.org> - 2022-01-16 22:40 +0100
Re: Why did Norbert Preining (having maintained KDE) left Debian? harryweaver@tutanota.com - 2022-01-17 01:10 +0100
Re: Why did Norbert Preining (having maintained KDE) left Debian? Pierre-Elliott Bécue <peb@debian.org> - 2022-01-17 23:20 +0100
Re: Why did Norbert Preining (having maintained KDE) left Debian? harryweaver@tutanota.com - 2022-01-17 23:30 +0100
Re: Why did Norbert Preining (having maintained KDE) left Debian? Nicholas Geovanis <nickgeovanis@gmail.com> - 2022-01-18 00:00 +0100
Re: Why did Norbert Preining (having maintained KDE) left Debian? Nicholas Geovanis <nickgeovanis@gmail.com> - 2022-01-18 00:10 +0100
Re: Why did Norbert Preining (having maintained KDE) left Debian? Pierre-Elliott Bécue <peb@debian.org> - 2022-01-18 00:10 +0100
Re: Why did Norbert Preining (having maintained KDE) left Debian? Marco Möller <talby@debianlists.mobilxpress.net> - 2022-01-22 14:00 +0100
Re: Why did Norbert Preining (having maintained KDE) left Debian? "Thomas Schmitt" <scdbackup@gmx.net> - 2022-01-22 14:50 +0100
Re: Why did Norbert Preining (having maintained KDE) left Debian? songbird <songbird@anthive.com> - 2022-01-22 15:30 +0100
Re: Why did Norbert Preining (having maintained KDE) left Debian? Marco Möller <talby@debianlists.mobilxpress.net> - 2022-01-22 20:40 +0100
[SUMMARY STATEMENT] Was: Re: Why did Norbert Preining (having maintained KDE) left Debian? "Andrew M.A. Cater" <amacater@einval.com> - 2022-01-23 00:30 +0100
Re: [SUMMARY STATEMENT] Was: Re: Why did Norbert Preining (having maintained KDE) left Debian? Marco Möller <talby@debianlists.mobilxpress.net> - 2022-01-23 19:50 +0100
Re: [SUMMARY STATEMENT] Was: Re: Why did Norbert Preining (having maintained KDE) left Debian? local10 <local10@tutanota.com> - 2022-01-23 20:20 +0100
Re: [SUMMARY STATEMENT] Was: Re: Why did Norbert Preining (having maintained KDE) left Debian? Pierre-Elliott Bécue <peb@debian.org> - 2022-01-23 21:10 +0100
Re: [SUMMARY STATEMENT] Was: Re: Why did Norbert Preining (having maintained KDE) left Debian? <tomas@tuxteam.de> - 2022-01-23 21:10 +0100
Re: [SUMMARY STATEMENT] Was: Re: Why did Norbert Preining (having maintained KDE) left Debian? Polyna-Maude Racicot-Summerside <debian@polynamaude.com> - 2022-01-23 21:20 +0100
Re: [SUMMARY STATEMENT] Was: Re: Why did Norbert Preining (having maintained KDE) left Debian? local10 <local10@tutanota.com> - 2022-01-23 21:40 +0100
Re: [SUMMARY STATEMENT] Was: Re: Why did Norbert Preining (having maintained KDE) left Debian? Jim Popovitch <jim@k4vqc.com> - 2022-01-23 21:50 +0100
Re: [SUMMARY STATEMENT] Was: Re: Why did Norbert Preining (having maintained KDE) left Debian? Pierre-Elliott Bécue <peb@debian.org> - 2022-01-23 23:00 +0100
Re: [SUMMARY STATEMENT] Was: Re: Why did Norbert Preining (having maintained KDE) left Debian? RP <reyadmin@gmail.com> - 2022-01-24 00:10 +0100
Re: [SUMMARY STATEMENT] Was: Re: Why did Norbert Preining (having maintained KDE) left Debian? local10 <local10@tutanota.com> - 2022-01-24 00:40 +0100
Re: [SUMMARY STATEMENT] Was: Re: Why did Norbert Preining (having maintained KDE) left Debian? Polyna-Maude Racicot-Summerside <debian@polynamaude.com> - 2022-01-24 01:00 +0100
Re: [SUMMARY STATEMENT] Was: Re: Why did Norbert Preining (having maintained KDE) left Debian? local10 <local10@tutanota.com> - 2022-01-24 01:30 +0100
Re: [SUMMARY STATEMENT] Was: Re: Why did Norbert Preining (having maintained KDE) left Debian? Polyna-Maude Racicot-Summerside <debian@polynamaude.com> - 2022-01-24 02:20 +0100
Re: [SUMMARY STATEMENT] Was: Re: Why did Norbert Preining (having maintained KDE) left Debian? Polyna-Maude Racicot-Summerside <debian@polynamaude.com> - 2022-01-24 03:50 +0100
Re: [SUMMARY STATEMENT] Was: Re: Why did Norbert Preining (having maintained KDE) left Debian? deloptes <emanoil.kotsev@deloptes.org> - 2022-01-24 04:20 +0100
Re: [SUMMARY STATEMENT] Was: Re: Why did Norbert Preining (having maintained KDE) left Debian? deloptes <emanoil.kotsev@deloptes.org> - 2022-01-24 03:50 +0100
Re: [SUMMARY STATEMENT] Was: Re: Why did Norbert Preining (having maintained KDE) left Debian? Pierre-Elliott Bécue <peb@debian.org> - 2022-01-24 22:10 +0100
Re: Why did Norbert Preining (having maintained KDE) left Debian? deloptes <emanoil.kotsev@deloptes.org> - 2022-01-23 09:30 +0100
Re: Why did Norbert Preining (having maintained KDE) left Debian? Polyna-Maude Racicot-Summerside <debian@polynamaude.com> - 2022-01-23 12:30 +0100
"Package was removed from Debian because of a variable name" myth (?) (was: Re: Why did Norbert Preining (having maintained KDE) left Debian?) Andy Smith <andy@strugglers.net> - 2022-01-23 12:40 +0100
Re: "Package was removed from Debian because of a variable name" myth (?) (was: Re: Why did Norbert Preining (having maintained KDE) left Debian?) Andy Smith <andy@strugglers.net> - 2022-01-23 13:00 +0100
Re: "Package was removed from Debian because of a variable name" myth (?) (was: Re: Why did Norbert Preining (having maintained KDE) left Debian?) Greg Wooledge <greg@wooledge.org> - 2022-01-23 15:00 +0100
Re: "Package was removed from Debian because of a variable name" myth (?) (was: Re: Why did Norbert Preining (having maintained KDE) left Debian?) Polyna-Maude Racicot-Summerside <debian@polynamaude.com> - 2022-01-23 21:00 +0100
Re: "Package was removed from Debian because of a variable name" myth (?) (was: Re: Why did Norbert Preining (having maintained KDE) left Debian?) Polyna-Maude Racicot-Summerside <debian@polynamaude.com> - 2022-01-23 13:00 +0100
Re: Why did Norbert Preining (having maintained KDE) left Debian? <tomas@tuxteam.de> - 2022-01-23 11:10 +0100
Re: Why did Norbert Preining (having maintained KDE) left Debian? deloptes <emanoil.kotsev@deloptes.org> - 2022-01-23 11:40 +0100
Re: Why did Norbert Preining (having maintained KDE) left Debian? Polyna-Maude Racicot-Summerside <debian@polynamaude.com> - 2022-01-23 11:50 +0100
Re: Why did Norbert Preining (having maintained KDE) left Debian? deloptes <emanoil.kotsev@deloptes.org> - 2022-01-23 12:20 +0100
Re: Why did Norbert Preining (having maintained KDE) left Debian? Charles Curley <charlescurley@charlescurley.com> - 2022-01-23 16:40 +0100
Re: Why did Norbert Preining (having maintained KDE) left Debian? <tomas@tuxteam.de> - 2022-01-23 17:10 +0100
Re: Why did Norbert Preining (having maintained KDE) left Debian? deloptes <emanoil.kotsev@deloptes.org> - 2022-01-23 11:10 +0100
Re: Why did Norbert Preining (having maintained KDE) left Debian? Pierre-Elliott Bécue <peb@debian.org> - 2022-01-23 11:20 +0100
Re: Why did Norbert Preining (having maintained KDE) left Debian? deloptes <emanoil.kotsev@deloptes.org> - 2022-01-23 11:40 +0100
Re: Why did Norbert Preining (having maintained KDE) left Debian? Pierre-Elliott Bécue <peb@debian.org> - 2022-01-23 13:00 +0100
Re: Why did Norbert Preining (having maintained KDE) left Debian? deloptes <emanoil.kotsev@deloptes.org> - 2022-01-23 13:50 +0100
Re: Why did Norbert Preining (having maintained KDE) left Debian? Andy Smith <andy@strugglers.net> - 2022-01-23 13:50 +0100
Re: Why did Norbert Preining (having maintained KDE) left Debian? Polyna-Maude Racicot-Summerside <debian@polynamaude.com> - 2022-01-23 13:50 +0100
Re: Why did Norbert Preining (having maintained KDE) left Debian? deloptes <emanoil.kotsev@deloptes.org> - 2022-01-23 15:00 +0100
Re: Why did Norbert Preining (having maintained KDE) left Debian? Pierre-Elliott Bécue <peb@debian.org> - 2022-01-23 14:50 +0100
Re: Why did Norbert Preining (having maintained KDE) left Debian? Polyna-Maude Racicot-Summerside <debian@polynamaude.com> - 2022-01-23 12:10 +0100
Re: Why did Norbert Preining (having maintained KDE) left Debian? "Andrew M.A. Cater" <amacater@einval.com> - 2022-01-23 15:00 +0100
Re: Why did Norbert Preining (having maintained KDE) left Debian? Polyna-Maude Racicot-Summerside <debian@polynamaude.com> - 2022-01-23 21:10 +0100
Re: Why did Norbert Preining (having maintained KDE) left Debian? Andrei POPESCU <andreimpopescu@gmail.com> - 2022-01-24 20:40 +0100
Re: Why did Norbert Preining (having maintained KDE) left Debian? RP <reyadmin@gmail.com> - 2022-01-24 20:50 +0100
Re: Why did Norbert Preining (having maintained KDE) left Debian? Polyna-Maude Racicot-Summerside <debian@polynamaude.com> - 2022-01-25 00:30 +0100
Re: Why did Norbert Preining (having maintained KDE) left Debian? max <maxwillb@mailfence.com> - 2022-01-24 01:40 +0100
Re: Why did Norbert Preining (having maintained KDE) left Debian? RP <reyadmin@gmail.com> - 2022-01-24 01:50 +0100
Re: Why did Norbert Preining (having maintained KDE) left Debian? Polyna-Maude Racicot-Summerside <debian@polynamaude.com> - 2022-01-24 02:30 +0100
Re: Why did Norbert Preining (having maintained KDE) left Debian? Polyna-Maude Racicot-Summerside <debian@polynamaude.com> - 2022-01-24 03:50 +0100
Re: Why did Norbert Preining (having maintained KDE) left Debian? max <maxwillb@mailfence.com> - 2022-01-24 04:30 +0100
Re: Why did Norbert Preining (having maintained KDE) left Debian? max <maxwillb@mailfence.com> - 2022-01-24 03:50 +0100
Re: Why did Norbert Preining (having maintained KDE) left Debian? Andrei POPESCU <andreimpopescu@gmail.com> - 2022-01-24 21:10 +0100
Re: Re: Why did Norbert Preining (having maintained KDE) left Debian? Norbert Preining <norbert@preining.info> - 2022-01-24 00:30 +0100
Re: Re: Why did Norbert Preining (having maintained KDE) left Debian? max <maxwillb@mailfence.com> - 2022-01-24 11:00 +0100
Re: Re: Why did Norbert Preining (having maintained KDE) left Debian? harryweaver@tutanota.com - 2022-01-24 11:10 +0100
Re: Re: Why did Norbert Preining (having maintained KDE) left Debian? deloptes <emanoil.kotsev@deloptes.org> - 2022-01-24 12:50 +0100
[CODE OF CONDUCT REMINDER - WAS Re: Re: Why did Norbert Preining (having maintained KDE) left Debian?] "Andrew M.A. Cater" <amacater@einval.com> - 2022-01-24 18:00 +0100
Re: [CODE OF CONDUCT REMINDER - WAS Re: Re: Why did Norbert Preining (having maintained KDE) left Debian?] Roberto C. Sánchez <roberto@debian.org> - 2022-01-24 18:40 +0100
Re: [CODE OF CONDUCT REMINDER - WAS Re: Re: Why did Norbert Preining (having maintained KDE) left Debian?] Polyna-Maude Racicot-Summerside <debian@polynamaude.com> - 2022-01-24 19:10 +0100
Re: [CODE OF CONDUCT REMINDER - WAS Re: Re: Why did Norbert Preining (having maintained KDE) left Debian?] RP <reyadmin@gmail.com> - 2022-01-24 19:10 +0100
Re: [CODE OF CONDUCT REMINDER - WAS Re: Re: Why did Norbert Preining (having maintained KDE) left Debian?] Roberto C. Sánchez <roberto@debian.org> - 2022-01-24 19:10 +0100
Re: Why did Norbert Preining (having maintained KDE) left Debian? Pierre-Elliott Bécue <peb@pimeys.fr> - 2022-01-24 22:00 +0100
Re: Why did Norbert Preining (having maintained KDE) left Debian? Norbert Preining <norbert@preining.info> - 2022-01-25 01:30 +0100
Re: Why did Norbert Preining (having maintained KDE) left Debian? Pierre-Elliott Bécue <peb@debian.org> - 2022-01-25 07:40 +0100
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| From | max <maxwillb@mailfence.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2022-01-24 01:40 +0100 |
| Message-ID | <DIVyN-6GG-7@gated-at.bofh.it> |
| In reply to | #244323 |
January 22, 2022 1:52:16 PM CET "Marco Möller" <talby@debianlists.mobilxpress.net> wrote: > Without transparency the Debian project does not present itself as community driven, but as a closer circle of directing minds hiding the reasoning for their decisions. Indeed. In the US, one can demand to read the archived emails of public officials (not just mailing lists) Why does Debian need "private" mailing lists? What is it hiding from the public? -- Sent with https://mailfence.com Secure and private email
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| From | RP <reyadmin@gmail.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2022-01-24 01:50 +0100 |
| Message-ID | <DIVIt-6JV-3@gated-at.bofh.it> |
| In reply to | #244476 |
On 1/23/22 16:37, max wrote: > January 22, 2022 1:52:16 PM CET "Marco Möller" <talby@debianlists.mobilxpress.net> wrote: > >> Without transparency the Debian project does not present itself as community driven, but as a closer circle of directing minds hiding the reasoning for their decisions. > Indeed. In the US, one can demand to read the archived emails of public officials (not just mailing lists) > > Why does Debian need "private" mailing lists? What is it hiding from the public? > Maybe taking it a bit too far but go ahead and file a lawsuit. In the pursuit truth and justice.
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| From | Polyna-Maude Racicot-Summerside <debian@polynamaude.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2022-01-24 02:30 +0100 |
| Message-ID | <DIWlb-7bF-1@gated-at.bofh.it> |
| In reply to | #244476 |
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Hi, On 2022-01-23 19:37, max wrote: > January 22, 2022 1:52:16 PM CET "Marco Möller" <talby@debianlists.mobilxpress.net> wrote: > >> Without transparency the Debian project does not present itself as community driven, but as a closer circle of directing minds hiding the reasoning for their decisions. > > Indeed. In the US, one can demand to read the archived emails of public officials (not just mailing lists) > None here are public officials, this is a private corporation even if it's of public utility. And even public officials, you can get their mail but there will still be private information kept private. > Why does Debian need "private" mailing lists? What is it hiding from the public? > If all would be public you'd be the first complaining and saying that it's so rude to talk about specific case, before a decision is made and share the information publicly. If there's a private sharing of information then haven't it ever passed thru your mind that it can be related to the need to keep confidential information ? For example, private and personal information regarding someone. The same as a jury decision is public, the deliberate are not. Oh, by the way, nice to meet you ! Seems odd that you are new to this mailing list and have some much interest in this debate. And so close on the timeline since someone else had left... -- Polyna-Maude R.-Summerside -Be smart, Be wise, Support opensource development
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| From | Polyna-Maude Racicot-Summerside <debian@polynamaude.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2022-01-24 03:50 +0100 |
| Message-ID | <DIXAE-7Vd-15@gated-at.bofh.it> |
| In reply to | #244480 |
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On 2022-01-23 21:39, max wrote: > January 24, 2022 2:23:12 AM CET Polyna-Maude Racicot-Summerside <debian@polynamaude.com> wrote: > >> None here are public officials, this is a private corporation even if it's of public utility. > > Nor was I suggesting otherwise. > > I'm just saying that it's odd for a moralistic organization like Debian to be less transparent than the US government. > >> Seems odd that you are new to this mailing list and have some much interest in this debate. > > Why is it odd? I have a moderate amount of interest. I sent one email. And your main interest regarding Debian, as someone who's new here is.... The arguments relating the faith of a decision concerning a long term developer. You don't have other interest ? This seem to be the only thing you talked about and never asked a question on another subject. Maybe you shall learn about a community *BEFORE* making opinion. A bit like learning to program a language *BEFORE* trying to compile code. > >> And so close on the timeline since someone else had left... > > Who's "someone"? Are you saying I signed up when someone else stopped posting? Is it suspicious? Have you noticed anyone else signing up around the same time? Better be careful. They are out there. They come at night! > No they won't come tonight. Monster only knock on my door the 31st of October. -- Polyna-Maude R.-Summerside -Be smart, Be wise, Support opensource development
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| From | max <maxwillb@mailfence.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2022-01-24 04:30 +0100 |
| Message-ID | <DIYdj-8tu-1@gated-at.bofh.it> |
| In reply to | #244483 |
January 24, 2022 3:44:51 AM CET Polyna-Maude Racicot-Summerside <debian@polynamaude.com> wrote: > You don't have other interest ? This seem to be the only thing you talked about and never asked a question on another subject. You must have missed by post about https://medium.com/@maxwillb/why-is-debian-not-telling-the-truth-about-its-security-fixes-85f0f85f19a0 just the other day. -- Sent with https://mailfence.com Secure and private email
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| From | max <maxwillb@mailfence.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2022-01-24 03:50 +0100 |
| Message-ID | <DIXAE-7Vd-17@gated-at.bofh.it> |
| In reply to | #244480 |
January 24, 2022 2:23:12 AM CET Polyna-Maude Racicot-Summerside <debian@polynamaude.com> wrote: > None here are public officials, this is a private corporation even if it's of public utility. Nor was I suggesting otherwise. I'm just saying that it's odd for a moralistic organization like Debian to be less transparent than the US government. > Seems odd that you are new to this mailing list and have some much interest in this debate. Why is it odd? I have a moderate amount of interest. I sent one email. > And so close on the timeline since someone else had left... Who's "someone"? Are you saying I signed up when someone else stopped posting? Is it suspicious? Have you noticed anyone else signing up around the same time? Better be careful. They are out there. They come at night! -- Sent with https://mailfence.com Secure and private email
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| From | Andrei POPESCU <andreimpopescu@gmail.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2022-01-24 21:10 +0100 |
| Message-ID | <DJdP3-1co-1@gated-at.bofh.it> |
| In reply to | #244476 |
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On Lu, 24 ian 22, 01:37:55, max wrote: > January 22, 2022 1:52:16 PM CET "Marco Möller" <talby@debianlists.mobilxpress.net> wrote: > > > Without transparency the Debian project does not present itself as community driven, but as a closer circle of directing minds hiding the reasoning for their decisions. > > Indeed. In the US, one can demand to read the archived emails of > public officials (not just mailing lists) Does a foreign citizen enjoy the same right? The various delegated teams (including DAM) ultimately answer only to Debian Project Members, all of which do have access to debian-private. (see the Debian Project's Constitution for details) As users we "only" get to enjoy the results of their labour, for free. > Why does Debian need "private" mailing lists? What is it hiding from the public? There's this thing called "privacy", especially of the person directly affected. In some countries there are even laws regulating that (e.g. the EU GDPR) and publicly sharing sensitive information about other persons is illegal. Kind regards, Andrei -- http://wiki.debian.org/FAQsFromDebianUser
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| From | Norbert Preining <norbert@preining.info> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2022-01-24 00:30 +0100 |
| Message-ID | <DIUt3-654-5@gated-at.bofh.it> |
| In reply to | #244085 |
Hi peb, > And as debian-private is private, there is little to no chance a Debian > Member will provide any mail Norbert might not provide. > > And, for the sake of clarity, neither Norbert should provide no mail at > all, for the forementioned reason. That remains solely at my discretion. I will happily publish what is necessary to clarify positions and actions. Enjoy Norbert -- PREINING Norbert https://www.preining.info Fujitsu Research + IFMGA Guide + TU Wien + TeX Live GPG: 0x860CDC13 fp: F7D8 A928 26E3 16A1 9FA0 ACF0 6CAC A448 860C DC13
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| From | max <maxwillb@mailfence.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2022-01-24 11:00 +0100 |
| Subject | Re: Re: Why did Norbert Preining (having maintained KDE) left Debian? |
| Message-ID | <DJ4iL-3DD-15@gated-at.bofh.it> |
| In reply to | #244463 |
For comparison, RMS is publicly against singular "they", and Debian developers voted not to censure him. https://stallman.org/articles/genderless-pronouns.html Seems like a double standard, but whatever. BTW, Norbert, I have used TeX on Debian many times. So let me take this opportunity to say thanks. -- Sent with https://mailfence.com Secure and private email
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| From | harryweaver@tutanota.com |
|---|---|
| Date | 2022-01-24 11:10 +0100 |
| Subject | Re: Re: Why did Norbert Preining (having maintained KDE) left Debian? |
| Message-ID | <DJ4sq-3Wj-9@gated-at.bofh.it> |
| In reply to | #244500 |
24 Jan 2022, 19:52 by maxwillb@mailfence.com: > For comparison, RMS is publicly against singular "they", and Debian developers voted not to censure him. https://stallman.org/articles/genderless-pronouns.html Seems like a double standard, but whatever. > > BTW, Norbert, I have used TeX on Debian many times. So let me take this opportunity to say thanks. > And so say all of us! Cheers! Harry.
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| From | deloptes <emanoil.kotsev@deloptes.org> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2022-01-24 12:50 +0100 |
| Message-ID | <DJ61b-4I5-7@gated-at.bofh.it> |
| In reply to | #244500 |
max wrote: > For comparison, RMS is publicly against singular "they", and Debian > developers voted not to censure him. > https://stallman.org/articles/genderless-pronouns.html Seems like a double > standard, but whatever. If you engage in such discussion, you are ready to fail. There is no force in this universe to tell me not to use the pronouns he and she based on biological sex. The opposite is complete madness: I recommend listening to Jordan Peterson on this subject. I doubt RMS is authority in this field. He has opinion and this is it - he and not only he - no one has the authority to tell you or me how to speak. Language is to help us understand each other. Obviously someone does not want to admit to this basic rule and wants us to roll over into the Overtone window. It is absolutely unnecessary discussion. J. Peterson refuses to accept, I refuse and many others. It is perfectly OK. I have the same rights as you do. Period. -- FCD6 3719 0FFB F1BF 38EA 4727 5348 5F1F DCFE BCB0
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| From | "Andrew M.A. Cater" <amacater@einval.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2022-01-24 18:00 +0100 |
| Subject | [CODE OF CONDUCT REMINDER - WAS Re: Re: Why did Norbert Preining (having maintained KDE) left Debian?] |
| Message-ID | <DJaRd-7EK-3@gated-at.bofh.it> |
| In reply to | #244513 |
On Mon, Jan 24, 2022 at 12:44:52PM +0100, deloptes wrote: > max wrote: > > > For comparison, RMS is publicly against singular "they", and Debian > > developers voted not to censure him. > > https://stallman.org/articles/genderless-pronouns.html Seems like a double > > standard, but whatever. > > If you engage in such discussion, you are ready to fail. There is no force > in this universe to tell me not to use the pronouns he and she based on > biological sex. > The opposite is complete madness: I recommend listening to Jordan Peterson > on this subject. > I doubt RMS is authority in this field. He has opinion and this is it - he > and not only he - no one has the authority to tell you or me how to speak. > Language is to help us understand each other. Obviously someone does not > want to admit to this basic rule and wants us to roll over into the > Overtone window. It is absolutely unnecessary discussion. J. Peterson > refuses to accept, I refuse and many others. It is perfectly OK. I have the > same rights as you do. Period. > Can I please remind readers and posters: Communication on this list, on IRC and on other Debian media are bound by the Debian mailing list code of conduct, the Debian IRC code of conduct and, above all, by the Debian Code of Conduct. https://www.debian.org/MailingLists/#codeofconduct https://www.debian.org/support#irc https://wiki.debian.org/DebianIRCChannelGuidelines https://www.debian.org/code_of_conduct Action can and will be taken by listmasters if appropriate. Please also report issues with conduct to the Community Team With thanks for your attention, Andrew Cater [For and on behalf of the Debian Community Team] > -- > FCD6 3719 0FFB F1BF 38EA 4727 5348 5F1F DCFE BCB0 >
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| From | Roberto C. Sánchez <roberto@debian.org> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2022-01-24 18:40 +0100 |
| Subject | Re: [CODE OF CONDUCT REMINDER - WAS Re: Re: Why did Norbert Preining (having maintained KDE) left Debian?] |
| Message-ID | <DJbtU-878-7@gated-at.bofh.it> |
| In reply to | #244523 |
On Mon, Jan 24, 2022 at 04:55:25PM +0000, Andrew M.A. Cater wrote: > On Mon, Jan 24, 2022 at 12:44:52PM +0100, deloptes wrote: > > max wrote: > > > > > For comparison, RMS is publicly against singular "they", and Debian > > > developers voted not to censure him. > > > https://stallman.org/articles/genderless-pronouns.html Seems like a double > > > standard, but whatever. > > > > If you engage in such discussion, you are ready to fail. There is no force > > in this universe to tell me not to use the pronouns he and she based on > > biological sex. > > The opposite is complete madness: I recommend listening to Jordan Peterson > > on this subject. > > I doubt RMS is authority in this field. He has opinion and this is it - he > > and not only he - no one has the authority to tell you or me how to speak. > > Language is to help us understand each other. Obviously someone does not > > want to admit to this basic rule and wants us to roll over into the > > Overtone window. It is absolutely unnecessary discussion. J. Peterson > > refuses to accept, I refuse and many others. It is perfectly OK. I have the > > same rights as you do. Period. > > > > Can I please remind readers and posters: > > Communication on this list, on IRC and on other Debian media are bound > by the Debian mailing list code of conduct, the Debian IRC code of conduct > and, above all, by the Debian Code of Conduct. > > https://www.debian.org/MailingLists/#codeofconduct > https://www.debian.org/support#irc > https://wiki.debian.org/DebianIRCChannelGuidelines > https://www.debian.org/code_of_conduct > > Action can and will be taken by listmasters if appropriate. > Please also report issues with conduct to the Community Team > > With thanks for your attention, > > Andrew Cater > [For and on behalf of the Debian Community Team] > Andrew, I am very concerned by your message and the signal it seems to be communicating. The links you provided do not seem to describe any sort of boundary or misbehavior which appears to be at issue in deloptes's message. The most egregious thing seems to be the continuation of an off-topic thread. There many contributors to that particular problem in this case in addition to delpotes. Could you perhaps describe precisely what offense was caused or what boundary was skirted in this instance? In the future, messages such as yours would appear less menacing and more constructive with this additional bit of information added. Regards, -Roberto -- Roberto C. Sánchez
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| From | Polyna-Maude Racicot-Summerside <debian@polynamaude.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2022-01-24 19:10 +0100 |
| Subject | Re: [CODE OF CONDUCT REMINDER - WAS Re: Re: Why did Norbert Preining (having maintained KDE) left Debian?] |
| Message-ID | <DJbWW-8wk-11@gated-at.bofh.it> |
| In reply to | #244526 |
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On 2022-01-24 12:50, RP wrote: > On 1/24/22 09:33, Roberto C. Sánchez wrote: >> On Mon, Jan 24, 2022 at 04:55:25PM +0000, Andrew M.A. Cater wrote: >>> On Mon, Jan 24, 2022 at 12:44:52PM +0100, deloptes wrote: >>>> max wrote: >>>> >>>>> For comparison, RMS is publicly against singular "they", and Debian >>>>> developers voted not to censure him. >>>>> https://stallman.org/articles/genderless-pronouns.html Seems like a >>>>> double >>>>> standard, but whatever. >>>> If you engage in such discussion, you are ready to fail. There is no >>>> force >>>> in this universe to tell me not to use the pronouns he and she based on >>>> biological sex. >>>> The opposite is complete madness: I recommend listening to Jordan >>>> Peterson >>>> on this subject. >>>> I doubt RMS is authority in this field. He has opinion and this is >>>> it - he >>>> and not only he - no one has the authority to tell you or me how to >>>> speak. >>>> Language is to help us understand each other. Obviously someone does >>>> not >>>> want to admit to this basic rule and wants us to roll over into the >>>> Overtone window. It is absolutely unnecessary discussion. J. Peterson >>>> refuses to accept, I refuse and many others. It is perfectly OK. I >>>> have the >>>> same rights as you do. Period. >>>> >>> Can I please remind readers and posters: >>> >>> Communication on this list, on IRC and on other Debian media are bound >>> by the Debian mailing list code of conduct, the Debian IRC code of >>> conduct >>> and, above all, by the Debian Code of Conduct. >>> >>> https://www.debian.org/MailingLists/#codeofconduct >>> https://www.debian.org/support#irc >>> https://wiki.debian.org/DebianIRCChannelGuidelines >>> https://www.debian.org/code_of_conduct >>> >>> Action can and will be taken by listmasters if appropriate. >>> Please also report issues with conduct to the Community Team >>> >>> With thanks for your attention, >>> >>> Andrew Cater >>> [For and on behalf of the Debian Community Team] >>> >> Andrew, >> >> I am very concerned by your message and the signal it seems to be >> communicating. The links you provided do not seem to describe any sort >> of boundary or misbehavior which appears to be at issue in deloptes's >> message. The most egregious thing seems to be the continuation of an >> off-topic thread. There many contributors to that particular problem in >> this case in addition to delpotes. >> >> Could you perhaps describe precisely what offense was caused or what >> boundary was skirted in this instance? >> >> In the future, messages such as yours would appear less menacing and >> more constructive with this additional bit of information added. >> >> Regards, >> >> -Roberto >> > This whole thread has turned into a violation of the very first rule. > If you read Andrew's post, the first line says to "readers and > posters". This is for everyone. > Copy of CoC : 1 - The mailing lists exist to foster the development and use of Debian. Non-constructive or off-topic messages, along with other abuses, are not welcome. 2 - Do not use foul language; besides, some people receive the lists via packet radio, where swearing is illegal. 3 - Try not to flame; it is not polite. -- Polyna-Maude R.-Summerside -Be smart, Be wise, Support opensource development
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| From | RP <reyadmin@gmail.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2022-01-24 19:10 +0100 |
| Subject | Re: [CODE OF CONDUCT REMINDER - WAS Re: Re: Why did Norbert Preining (having maintained KDE) left Debian?] |
| Message-ID | <DJbWW-8wk-13@gated-at.bofh.it> |
| In reply to | #244526 |
On 1/24/22 09:33, Roberto C. Sánchez wrote: > On Mon, Jan 24, 2022 at 04:55:25PM +0000, Andrew M.A. Cater wrote: >> On Mon, Jan 24, 2022 at 12:44:52PM +0100, deloptes wrote: >>> max wrote: >>> >>>> For comparison, RMS is publicly against singular "they", and Debian >>>> developers voted not to censure him. >>>> https://stallman.org/articles/genderless-pronouns.html Seems like a double >>>> standard, but whatever. >>> If you engage in such discussion, you are ready to fail. There is no force >>> in this universe to tell me not to use the pronouns he and she based on >>> biological sex. >>> The opposite is complete madness: I recommend listening to Jordan Peterson >>> on this subject. >>> I doubt RMS is authority in this field. He has opinion and this is it - he >>> and not only he - no one has the authority to tell you or me how to speak. >>> Language is to help us understand each other. Obviously someone does not >>> want to admit to this basic rule and wants us to roll over into the >>> Overtone window. It is absolutely unnecessary discussion. J. Peterson >>> refuses to accept, I refuse and many others. It is perfectly OK. I have the >>> same rights as you do. Period. >>> >> Can I please remind readers and posters: >> >> Communication on this list, on IRC and on other Debian media are bound >> by the Debian mailing list code of conduct, the Debian IRC code of conduct >> and, above all, by the Debian Code of Conduct. >> >> https://www.debian.org/MailingLists/#codeofconduct >> https://www.debian.org/support#irc >> https://wiki.debian.org/DebianIRCChannelGuidelines >> https://www.debian.org/code_of_conduct >> >> Action can and will be taken by listmasters if appropriate. >> Please also report issues with conduct to the Community Team >> >> With thanks for your attention, >> >> Andrew Cater >> [For and on behalf of the Debian Community Team] >> > Andrew, > > I am very concerned by your message and the signal it seems to be > communicating. The links you provided do not seem to describe any sort > of boundary or misbehavior which appears to be at issue in deloptes's > message. The most egregious thing seems to be the continuation of an > off-topic thread. There many contributors to that particular problem in > this case in addition to delpotes. > > Could you perhaps describe precisely what offense was caused or what > boundary was skirted in this instance? > > In the future, messages such as yours would appear less menacing and > more constructive with this additional bit of information added. > > Regards, > > -Roberto > This whole thread has turned into a violation of the very first rule. If you read Andrew's post, the first line says to "readers and posters". This is for everyone.
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| From | Roberto C. Sánchez <roberto@debian.org> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2022-01-24 19:10 +0100 |
| Subject | Re: [CODE OF CONDUCT REMINDER - WAS Re: Re: Why did Norbert Preining (having maintained KDE) left Debian?] |
| Message-ID | <DJbWX-8wk-29@gated-at.bofh.it> |
| In reply to | #244531 |
On Mon, Jan 24, 2022 at 09:50:45AM -0800, RP wrote: > > > This whole thread has turned into a violation of the very first rule. By that, I presume you are referring to "The mailing lists exist to foster the development and use of Debian. Non-constructive or off-topic messages, along with other abuses, are not welcome" from the mailing list code of conduct. I agree that this thread has become rather off-topic for this list. > If you read Andrew's post, the first line says to "readers and posters". It does say that. However, his choice of quoting sends a different message. Hence my request for additional information about the specific offense that prompted the warning. > This is for everyone. > There are ways to send messages intended "for everyone" and Andrew's message seems (unintentionally, I assume) to single out particular invidual in a somewhat threatning way. Regards, -Roberto -- Roberto C. Sánchez
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| From | Pierre-Elliott Bécue <peb@pimeys.fr> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2022-01-24 22:00 +0100 |
| Message-ID | <DJeBt-1se-17@gated-at.bofh.it> |
| In reply to | #244463 |
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Norbert Preining <norbert@preining.info> wrote on 24/01/2022 at 00:09:10+0100: > Hi peb, > >> And as debian-private is private, there is little to no chance a Debian >> Member will provide any mail Norbert might not provide. >> >> And, for the sake of clarity, neither Norbert should provide no mail at >> all, for the forementioned reason. > > That remains solely at my discretion. I will happily publish what is > necessary to clarify positions and actions. > > Enjoy Hi Norbert, Luckily I used the word "should", because, clearly, we all know that respecting the privacy of private lists is a moral contract. So, while this would be bad-mannered, of course, you can publish private mails, I doubt anyone would go in court for that. But still, you shouldn't. -- PEB
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| From | Norbert Preining <norbert@preining.info> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2022-01-25 01:30 +0100 |
| Message-ID | <DJhSF-3xI-1@gated-at.bofh.it> |
| In reply to | #244540 |
On Mon, 24 Jan 2022, Pierre-Elliott Bécue wrote: > moral contract. Moral? Haven't seen that in the last months or years. Riding the moral horse after having waded through so much stuff. That is krass. Norbert -- PREINING Norbert https://www.preining.info Fujitsu Research + IFMGA Guide + TU Wien + TeX Live GPG: 0x860CDC13 fp: F7D8 A928 26E3 16A1 9FA0 ACF0 6CAC A448 860C DC13
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| From | Pierre-Elliott Bécue <peb@debian.org> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2022-01-25 07:40 +0100 |
| Message-ID | <DJnEK-76S-3@gated-at.bofh.it> |
| In reply to | #244548 |
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Le 25 janvier 2022 01:07:14 GMT+01:00, Norbert Preining <norbert@preining.info> a écrit : >On Mon, 24 Jan 2022, Pierre-Elliott Bécue wrote: >> moral contract. > >Moral? Haven't seen that in the last months or years. >Riding the moral horse after having waded through so much stuff. > >That is krass. > >Norbert > >-- >PREINING Norbert https://www.preining.info >Fujitsu Research + IFMGA Guide + TU Wien + TeX Live >GPG: 0x860CDC13 fp: F7D8 A928 26E3 16A1 9FA0 ACF0 6CAC A448 860C DC13 > I'll leave that ranting and these barely masked attempts to paint yourself as a victim to you. -- Pierre-Elliott Bécue From my phone
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