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OT: anybody uses eero 6 WiFi router?

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  OT: anybody uses eero 6 WiFi router? "Juan R.D. Silva" <juan.r.d.silva@gmail.com> - 2022-01-13 04:00 +0100
    Re: OT: anybody uses eero 6 WiFi router? "Alexander V. Makartsev" <avbetev@gmail.com> - 2022-01-13 08:30 +0100
      Re: OT: anybody uses eero 6 WiFi router? "Juan R.D. Silva" <juan.r.d.silva@gmail.com> - 2022-01-14 03:30 +0100
        Re: OT: anybody uses eero 6 WiFi router? "Alexander V. Makartsev" <avbetev@gmail.com> - 2022-01-14 07:10 +0100
      Re: OT: anybody uses eero 6 WiFi router? Anssi Saari <as@sci.fi> - 2022-01-14 15:10 +0100
        Re: OT: anybody uses eero 6 WiFi router? Dan Ritter <dsr@randomstring.org> - 2022-01-14 16:40 +0100
        Re: OT: anybody uses eero 6 WiFi router? "Alexander V. Makartsev" <avbetev@gmail.com> - 2022-01-14 21:00 +0100
          Re: OT: anybody uses eero 6 WiFi router? Stefan Monnier <monnier@iro.umontreal.ca> - 2022-01-14 21:50 +0100
    Re: OT: anybody uses eero 6 WiFi router? Andrei POPESCU <andreimpopescu@gmail.com> - 2022-01-15 17:40 +0100

#243941 — OT: anybody uses eero 6 WiFi router?

Hi folks,

Shopping for a new ISP came across company that uses exclusively eero 6 
router. Anyone to share your experience/opinion about the thing?

2 concerns of mine are:
- cloud based private network management
- Amazon owned

Thanks

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#243951

On 13.01.2022 07:56, Juan R.D. Silva wrote:
> Hi folks,
>
> Shopping for a new ISP came across company that uses exclusively eero 
> 6 router. Anyone to share your experience/opinion about the thing?
>
> 2 concerns of mine are:
> - cloud based private network management
> - Amazon owned
>
> Thanks
>
I've never used this thing, but if I had to choose I would choose 
against it.
If ISP uses eero 6 router exclusively, doesn't mean it is good, it is 
probably because of a special deal with Amazon.
Just by skimming few reviews I can see, it's a "black box" without any 
information about hardware inside, so it must be dirt cheap to produce.
Other concerns, it comes with Amazon spyware (content proxy) 
pre-installed, which raises privacy concerns.
It is impossible to control without a smartphone and special app, which 
leads to security concerns.
A few owners has reported about connectivity issues, that means a 
firmware is not stable enough.
There is no telling about for how long it will be supported by Amazon.
The only positive thing I can think of about this overpriced toy is an 
Amazon eco-system integration and Alexa interaction support. That is if 
someone needs something like that in their home.

If I was in the market for the router for myself, I'd always choose one 
from MikroTik¹.
They all have no-nonsence hardware and software design, no 
smartphone\app requirement, no eco-system requirement (like 'Ubiquiti' 
devices), it is highly customizable, has every feature you can think of, 
it could be controlled via many ways, secured and monitored and will be 
supported by manufacturer for years via firmware updates.
The only downside I can think of is somewhat advanced configuration 
could be difficult for somebody, but with help from official forum and 
wiki² quite manageable and as a bonus I'll learn a lot about networking, 
routing.


¹ https://mikrotik.com/products
² https://wiki.mikrotik.com/wiki/Main_Page

-- 
With kindest regards, Alexander.

⢀⣴⠾⠻⢶⣦⠀
⣾⠁⢠⠒⠀⣿⡁ Debian - The universal operating system
⢿⡄⠘⠷⠚⠋⠀ https://www.debian.org
⠈⠳⣄⠀⠀⠀⠀

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#243978

On 2022-01-13 2:20 a.m., Alexander V. Makartsev wrote:
> On 13.01.2022 07:56, Juan R.D. Silva wrote:
>> Hi folks,
>>
>> Shopping for a new ISP came across company that uses exclusively eero 
>> 6 router. Anyone to share your experience/opinion about the thing?
>>
>> 2 concerns of mine are:
>> - cloud based private network management
>> - Amazon owned
>>
>> Thanks
>>
> I've never used this thing, but if I had to choose I would choose 
> against it.
> If ISP uses eero 6 router exclusively, doesn't mean it is good, it is 
> probably because of a special deal with Amazon.
> Just by skimming few reviews I can see, it's a "black box" without any 
> information about hardware inside, so it must be dirt cheap to produce.
> Other concerns, it comes with Amazon spyware (content proxy) 
> pre-installed, which raises privacy concerns.
> It is impossible to control without a smartphone and special app, which 
> leads to security concerns.
> A few owners has reported about connectivity issues, that means a 
> firmware is not stable enough.
> There is no telling about for how long it will be supported by Amazon.
> The only positive thing I can think of about this overpriced toy is an 
> Amazon eco-system integration and Alexa interaction support. That is if 
> someone needs something like that in their home.
> 
> If I was in the market for the router for myself, I'd always choose one 
> from MikroTik¹.
> They all have no-nonsence hardware and software design, no 
> smartphone\app requirement, no eco-system requirement (like 'Ubiquiti' 
> devices), it is highly customizable, has every feature you can think of, 
> it could be controlled via many ways, secured and monitored and will be 
> supported by manufacturer for years via firmware updates.
> The only downside I can think of is somewhat advanced configuration 
> could be difficult for somebody, but with help from official forum and 
> wiki² quite manageable and as a bonus I'll learn a lot about networking, 
> routing.
> 
> 
> ¹ https://mikrotik.com/products
> ² https://wiki.mikrotik.com/wiki/Main_Page
> 

Wikipedia says:

"On 3 August 2018, MikroTik routers were found to have been compromised 
by the Coinhive cryptocurrency malware."

"Beginning in June 2021, a botnet composed of unprotected Mikrotik 
devices created huge volumes of application-layer traffic using http 
pipelining, resulting in DDOS. The net was named Mēris (or Meris) by 
Qrator. Yandex reported attacks beginning August 4 2021 (over 5 million 
requests per second) with a massive attack on September 5, 2021 reaching 
almost 22 million RPS (requests per second). Cloudflare acknowledged an 
attack at over 17 million RPS in July 2021. The botnet appeared to be 
composed of 250,000 devices."

Nice try Alexaner. :-)

Thanks anyway.

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#243979

On 14.01.2022 07:22, Juan R.D. Silva wrote:
>
> Wikipedia says:
>
> "On 3 August 2018, MikroTik routers were found to have been 
> compromised by the Coinhive cryptocurrency malware."
>
> "Beginning in June 2021, a botnet composed of unprotected Mikrotik 
> devices created huge volumes of application-layer traffic using http 
> pipelining, resulting in DDOS. The net was named Mēris (or Meris) by 
> Qrator. Yandex reported attacks beginning August 4 2021 (over 5 
> million requests per second) with a massive attack on September 5, 
> 2021 reaching almost 22 million RPS (requests per second). Cloudflare 
> acknowledged an attack at over 17 million RPS in July 2021. The botnet 
> appeared to be composed of 250,000 devices."
>
> Nice try Alexaner. :-)
>
> Thanks anyway.
>
Huh? Try? There are no tries.
You've asked "to share your experience/opinion", so I gave you my 
personal recommendation.

As for reported "compromises", you always have to read between the lines.
If you connect a device to WAN network you have to configure it 
properly, otherwise anything could happen to it and it doesn't matter 
who manufactured it.
RISC architecture hardware coupled with RouterOS is a powerful tool and 
it is end-user's responsibility to secure it and maintain it, not just 
leaving it there with open service ports and default or even changed 
login\password.

-- 
With kindest regards, Alexander.

⢀⣴⠾⠻⢶⣦⠀
⣾⠁⢠⠒⠀⣿⡁ Debian - The universal operating system
⢿⡄⠘⠷⠚⠋⠀ https://www.debian.org
⠈⠳⣄⠀⠀⠀⠀

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#243983

"Alexander V. Makartsev" <avbetev@gmail.com> writes:

> If I was in the market for the router for myself, I'd always choose
> one from MikroTik¹.

> They all have no-nonsence hardware and software design...

I can't agree with the software part. Or I guess no-nonsense can be
agreed but I just find their web config interface messy,
counter-intuitive and poorly documented. Same goes for their proprietary
CLI. And they provide their own awful script language too.

Mikrotik's HW seems fine and they have a reputation for reliability
although my hEX S runs rather hot.

> The only downside I can think of is somewhat advanced configuration
> could be difficult for somebody, but with help from official forum and
> wiki² quite manageable and as a bonus I'll learn a lot about
> networking, routing.

That downside is huge. The thing is, I already know a lot about
networking and routing. What I don't know is all the Mikrotik
proprietary stuff or "the Mikrotik way". And since it all seems kind of
ass-backwards I don't particularly want to learn.

For sure, most router makers seem to think they have to add a fat
proprietary layer of crap on top of Linux. I have recent experience from
a Draytek router but at least their web interface was easily understood
even if things were placed strangely and some things were just odd. Too
bad the router didn't actually work reliably enough so I RMAd it and got
the Mikrotik.

Anyways, as soon as I have some free time I'll be setting up my PC
Engines APU2 board with Debian Linux to act as my router.

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#243986

Anssi Saari wrote: 
> For sure, most router makers seem to think they have to add a fat
> proprietary layer of crap on top of Linux. I have recent experience from
> a Draytek router but at least their web interface was easily understood
> even if things were placed strangely and some things were just odd. Too
> bad the router didn't actually work reliably enough so I RMAd it and got
> the Mikrotik.
> 
> Anyways, as soon as I have some free time I'll be setting up my PC
> Engines APU2 board with Debian Linux to act as my router.

This is an excellent way to go.

My low-power AMD Kabrini has been serving as a router running
Debian since 2014.

-dsr-

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#243991

On 14.01.2022 19:02, Anssi Saari wrote:
> "Alexander V. Makartsev" <avbetev@gmail.com> writes:
>
>> If I was in the market for the router for myself, I'd always choose
>> one from MikroTik¹.
>> They all have no-nonsence hardware and software design...
> I can't agree with the software part. Or I guess no-nonsense can be
> agreed but I just find their web config interface messy,
> counter-intuitive and poorly documented.
It is probably because nobody needs or uses it. WinBox and CLI-over-SSH 
are the way to go.
Cisco devices don't have very comfortable Web-GUI either and I can't 
really imagine a web interface that
will be able to manage these kind of devices with this level of 
complexity and look fancy and be secure at the same time.

> Same goes for their proprietary
> CLI. And they provide their own awful script language too.
I'll choose RouterOS CLI over IOS CLI any time of a day. It's really a 
matter of personal preference.
Tab-completion\suggestion of ROS CLI really helps to get around and do 
the job.
I also think, any CLI is made for scripting first and manual management 
second.
I do use it on occasion when I inevitably screw something up.

> Mikrotik's HW seems fine and they have a reputation for reliability
> although my hEX S runs rather hot.
>
>> The only downside I can think of is somewhat advanced configuration
>> could be difficult for somebody, but with help from official forum and
>> wiki² quite manageable and as a bonus I'll learn a lot about
>> networking, routing.
> That downside is huge. The thing is, I already know a lot about
> networking and routing. What I don't know is all the Mikrotik
> proprietary stuff or "the Mikrotik way". And since it all seems kind of
> ass-backwards I don't particularly want to learn.
I couldn't find any "the Mikrotik way" things. Proprietary probably, but 
I think it is just a Linux (BSD?) kernel, that was
highly optimized performance-wise for variety of different architectures.
When I think about it all I see is just interfaces of different kind¹, 
L2 and L3 packet filter² and various tools to watch, debug and monitor 
traffic.
Anything you'd find in there will have an existing RFC and all of it 
build up on the same algorithms you find in Linux.

> For sure, most router makers seem to think they have to add a fat
> proprietary layer of crap on top of Linux. I have recent experience from
> a Draytek router but at least their web interface was easily understood
> even if things were placed strangely and some things were just odd. Too
> bad the router didn't actually work reliably enough so I RMAd it and got
> the Mikrotik.
Once again, a matter of preference. I guess some people just want a 
fancy GUI dashboard to look at.
MikroTik is like C. It's low-level, really fast and powerful, but you 
have to know how to use it. :)

> Anyways, as soon as I have some free time I'll be setting up my PC
> Engines APU2 board with Debian Linux to act as my router.
I will be delighted to see a screen shot of a web interface you made for it.
I also yet to see an SMB-grade feature-wise router for the price of a 
SOHO-grade one.



¹ Bridges, VLANs, Bonding, PPP, etc, configured in the same way you 
would do it on Linux, but without cryptic config lines,
    where you have to verify every word you type with a man page, 
sometimes more than once.
² Judging by the way it looks and works is probably a carbon copy of 
iptables+ebtables with existing extensions.

-- 
With kindest regards, Alexander.

⢀⣴⠾⠻⢶⣦⠀
⣾⠁⢠⠒⠀⣿⡁ Debian - The universal operating system
⢿⡄⠘⠷⠚⠋⠀ https://www.debian.org
⠈⠳⣄⠀⠀⠀⠀

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#243992

>> Same goes for their proprietary
>> CLI. And they provide their own awful script language too.

I see many of their boards are supported by OpenWRT.
Maybe you can run Debian on them just as well (to bring this back on-topic).


        Stefan

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#244016

[Multipart message — attachments visible in raw view] — view raw

On Mi, 12 ian 22, 21:56:47, Juan R.D. Silva wrote:
> Hi folks,
> 
> Shopping for a new ISP came across company that uses exclusively eero 6
> router. Anyone to share your experience/opinion about the thing?
> 
> 2 concerns of mine are:
> - cloud based private network management
> - Amazon owned

Is that just a router or a modem / media converter / whatever[1]?

A router should be optional and in most cases it's probably best to 
avoid it completely and use something with OpenWrt instead.

In case it's a modem or media converter check if it is possible *and* 
allowed to put it in bridge mode, then use your own router connected to 
it.

If bridge mode is not possible (for whatever reason) it's still possible 
to use your own router, but for some specific use cases (e.g. port 
forwarding) you will be stuck with whatever the modem's firmware 
supports.

[1] regardless if including a wireless AP or not

Kind regards,
Andrei
-- 
http://wiki.debian.org/FAQsFromDebianUser

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