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still fixing stuff the upgrade broke...

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  still fixing stuff the upgrade broke... "Roy J. Tellason, Sr." <roy@rtellason.com> - 2022-01-06 07:00 +0100
    Re: still fixing stuff the upgrade broke... Brad Rogers <brad@fineby.me.uk> - 2022-01-06 08:40 +0100
    Re: still fixing stuff the upgrade broke... Greg Wooledge <greg@wooledge.org> - 2022-01-06 13:30 +0100
      Re: still fixing stuff the upgrade broke... "Roy J. Tellason, Sr." <roy@rtellason.com> - 2022-01-06 16:40 +0100
        Re: still fixing stuff the upgrade broke... David <bouncingcats@gmail.com> - 2022-01-06 18:10 +0100
          Re: still fixing stuff the upgrade broke... "Roy J. Tellason, Sr." <roy@rtellason.com> - 2022-01-07 18:20 +0100
        Re: still fixing stuff the upgrade broke... Polyna-Maude Racicot-Summerside <debian@polynamaude.com> - 2022-01-06 18:40 +0100
    Re: still fixing stuff the upgrade broke... Dan Ritter <dsr@randomstring.org> - 2022-01-06 13:50 +0100
      Re: still fixing stuff the upgrade broke... Curt <curty@free.fr> - 2022-01-06 14:00 +0100
        Re: still fixing stuff the upgrade broke... "Andrew M.A. Cater" <amacater@einval.com> - 2022-01-06 15:00 +0100
      Re: still fixing stuff the upgrade broke... "Roy J. Tellason, Sr." <roy@rtellason.com> - 2022-01-06 16:50 +0100
        Re: still fixing stuff the upgrade broke... Dan Ritter <dsr@randomstring.org> - 2022-01-06 18:10 +0100
          Re: still fixing stuff the upgrade broke... "Roy J. Tellason, Sr." <roy@rtellason.com> - 2022-01-07 18:10 +0100
            Re: still fixing stuff the upgrade broke... Dan Ritter <dsr@randomstring.org> - 2022-01-07 18:50 +0100
              Re: still fixing stuff the upgrade broke... "Roy J. Tellason, Sr." <roy@rtellason.com> - 2022-01-07 21:10 +0100
                Re: still fixing stuff the upgrade broke... Polyna-Maude Racicot-Summerside <debian@polynamaude.com> - 2022-01-08 03:00 +0100
                  Re: still fixing stuff the upgrade broke... Andrei POPESCU <andreimpopescu@gmail.com> - 2022-01-15 19:10 +0100
                Re: still fixing stuff the upgrade broke... David Wright <deblis@lionunicorn.co.uk> - 2022-01-08 04:50 +0100
                Re: still fixing stuff the upgrade broke... "Roy J. Tellason, Sr." <roy@rtellason.com> - 2022-01-08 20:50 +0100
      Re: still fixing stuff the upgrade broke... David Wright <deblis@lionunicorn.co.uk> - 2022-01-07 02:30 +0100
        Re: still fixing stuff the upgrade broke... Dan Ritter <dsr@randomstring.org> - 2022-01-07 15:10 +0100
          Re: still fixing stuff the upgrade broke... David Wright <deblis@lionunicorn.co.uk> - 2022-01-07 18:40 +0100
            Re: still fixing stuff the upgrade broke... Nicholas Geovanis <nickgeovanis@gmail.com> - 2022-01-07 19:20 +0100

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#243749 — still fixing stuff the upgrade broke...

So in my Xfce applications menu I have a top-level entry "Ham radio",  and there was exactly _one_ program to invoke under that,  called "chirp".  (I use this to program radios.)  I don't run this too often,  but having recently acquired a new radio I went to fire it up,  and got a "file not found" error.  WTF?  I've no idea where this menu stores its data,  but there was no entry there when I went into the menu option to edit thing.  It just showed *no* entry in there at all.  Why an upgrade would screw with this I have no idea...

So I downloaded the current version of the program.  This gets incremental upgrades all the time,  and the latest one is chirp20220103,  which I downloaded.  When I went to invoke it directly,  there was an error about some missing python bit.  Going into synaptic,  I didn't see chirp listed at all,  though it did show up when I did a search,  and installing that package got me a version from 2018!  (Why the repository can't be more up to date than that I don't know.)  This also provided the missing python bit.  So I edited the application menu entry to point to the new version,  and it now works.

I've been nudged more than once to continue with my upgrades to bring things up to the current stable version,  but am still not sure I want to go there in one swell foop.  Too many changes,  and things that aren't right.

I'm stilll trying to figure out what's invoking a screensaver in my virtualbox slackware install,  which I don't want but can't quite figout out how to turn off...



-- 
Member of the toughest, meanest, deadliest, most unrelenting -- and
ablest -- form of life in this section of space,  a critter that can
be killed but can't be tamed.  --Robert A. Heinlein, "The Puppet Masters"
-
Information is more dangerous than cannon to a society ruled by lies. --James 
M Dakin

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#243750

[Multipart message — attachments visible in raw view] — view raw

On Thu, 6 Jan 2022 01:01:07 -0500
"Roy J. Tellason, Sr." <roy@rtellason.com> wrote:

Hello Sr.,

> (Why the repository can't be more up to date than that I don't know.) 

Because, by the sound of things, you're using at least old-stable, which
won't get many, if any, updates.  Maybe the odd security bug fix.
Anything EOL won't get any updates at all.

-- 
 Regards  _
         / )      "The blindingly obvious is never immediately apparent"
        / _)rad   "Is it only me that has a working delete key?"
Early morning when I wake up, I look like Kiss but without the make up
Strong - Robbie Williams

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#243757

On Thu, Jan 06, 2022 at 01:01:07AM -0500, Roy J. Tellason, Sr. wrote:
> So I downloaded the current version of the program.  This gets incremental
> upgrades all the time,  and the latest one is chirp20220103,  which I
> downloaded.  When I went to invoke it directly,  there was an error about
> some missing python bit.  Going into synaptic,  I didn't see chirp listed at
> all,  though it did show up when I did a search,  and installing that package
> got me a version from 2018!  (Why the repository can't be more up to date
> than that I don't know.)  This also provided the missing python bit.  So I
> edited the application menu entry to point to the new version,  and it now
> works.

It would help if you would be more specific.  Give us the actual names
of things, and the actual version numbers.

For example:

unicorn:~$ apt-cache search --names-only chirp
chirp - Configuration tool for amateur radios
unicorn:~$ apt-cache show chirp | head
Package: chirp
Version: 1:20200227+py3+20200213-3
Installed-Size: 4206
Maintainer: Debian Hamradio Maintainers <debian-hams@lists.debian.org>
Architecture: all
Depends: python3-future, python3-serial, python3-six, python3-wxgtk4.0, python3:any
Description-en: Configuration tool for amateur radios
 CHIRP is a free, open-source tool for programming your amateur radio. It
 supports a large number of manufacturers and models, as well as provides a way
 to interface with multiple data sources and formats.

Going by the version number, that looks like it's from 2020.  Are you
not running the current stable release of Debian?

As far as running your chirp20220103 version, seeing the errors might be
helpful.  I'm not a python expert myself, but I'd be willing to bet that
someone on this list would be able to advise you if we could see the
actual error message.

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#243766

On Thursday 06 January 2022 07:20:43 am Greg Wooledge wrote:
> On Thu, Jan 06, 2022 at 01:01:07AM -0500, Roy J. Tellason, Sr. wrote:
> > So I downloaded the current version of the program.  This gets incremental
> > upgrades all the time,  and the latest one is chirp20220103,  which I
> > downloaded.  When I went to invoke it directly,  there was an error about
> > some missing python bit.  Going into synaptic,  I didn't see chirp listed at
> > all,  though it did show up when I did a search,  and installing that package
> > got me a version from 2018!  (Why the repository can't be more up to date
> > than that I don't know.)  This also provided the missing python bit.  So I
> > edited the application menu entry to point to the new version,  and it now
> > works.
> 
> It would help if you would be more specific.  Give us the actual names
> of things, and the actual version numbers.
> 
> For example:
> 
> unicorn:~$ apt-cache search --names-only chirp
> chirp - Configuration tool for amateur radios
> unicorn:~$ apt-cache show chirp | head
> Package: chirp
> Version: 1:20200227+py3+20200213-3
> Installed-Size: 4206
> Maintainer: Debian Hamradio Maintainers <debian-hams@lists.debian.org>
> Architecture: all
> Depends: python3-future, python3-serial, python3-six, python3-wxgtk4.0, python3:any
> Description-en: Configuration tool for amateur radios
>  CHIRP is a free, open-source tool for programming your amateur radio. It
>  supports a large number of manufacturers and models, as well as provides a way
>  to interface with multiple data sources and formats.
> 
> Going by the version number, that looks like it's from 2020.  Are you
> not running the current stable release of Debian?

No,  I'm not.  I had been updating packages from time to time using synaptic,  under the mistaken impression that this would keep things current,  and then I found that not to be the case.  I did an upgrade from 8 -> 9,  and that's where things are sitting at the moment.  I've been encouraged to get with current stable,  which is what,  11 at this point?  I'll get there,  but slowly,  so I can see what's changed at each step of the process and fix that which ends up broken.
 
> As far as running your chirp20220103 version, seeing the errors might be
> helpful.  I'm not a python expert myself, but I'd be willing to bet that
> someone on this list would be able to advise you if we could see the
> actual error message.

It was missing the python-serial package,  which installing the older version in synaptic got me,  so it's working now.  But the version that synaptic installed was from 2018!  That one isn't going to support this radio,  which is a tri-bander,  hence my move to the current version...

-- 
Member of the toughest, meanest, deadliest, most unrelenting -- and
ablest -- form of life in this section of space,  a critter that can
be killed but can't be tamed.  --Robert A. Heinlein, "The Puppet Masters"
-
Information is more dangerous than cannon to a society ruled by lies. --James 
M Dakin

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#243769

On Fri, 7 Jan 2022 at 02:39, Roy J. Tellason, Sr. <roy@rtellason.com> wrote:

Hi Roy,

You sound unhappy to me. Unhappiness can often be caused by a
mismatch between expectations and reality. I try to offer you some
advice based on years of reading this list ...

> > Going by the version number, that looks like it's from 2020.  Are you
> > not running the current stable release of Debian?

> No,  I'm not.

[...]

> I did an upgrade from 8 -> 9,  and that's where things are sitting at the moment.
> I've been encouraged to get with current stable,  which is what,  11 at this point?

> I'll get there, but slowly, so I can see what's changed at each step of the process
> and fix that which ends up broken.

My two cent opinion (after reading all your messages about this process):
This is not the best approach. A waste of your time, and a waste of our time
reading, and slightly unpleasant if we have to filter out your dissatisfaction
at each hurdle.

Many of the people here who advised you to migrate 8..9..10..11
(because that is the only way to migrate) are professional system
administrators whose livelihood depends on keeping complex
services available to their clients.

For a home user (I am one), this stepwise upgrade seems like a waste
of time, unless your hobby is complaining about things that don't work.

In your situation, I would keep the previous system untouched and runnable
somewhere, and create a fresh Debian 11 somewhere else, and migrate
the desired workflow, tools and configuration onto it at my leisure.

This approach will be more relaxed, and any learning involved will actually
be useful. People here will support it.

> > As far as running your chirp20220103 version, seeing the errors might be
> > helpful.  I'm not a python expert myself, but I'd be willing to bet that
> > someone on this list would be able to advise you if we could see the
> > actual error message.

[...]

> It was missing the python-serial package, which installing the older
> version in synaptic got me,  so it's working now.

> But the version that synaptic installed was from 2018!
> That one isn't going to support this radio,  which is a tri-bander,
> hence my move to the current version...

If you are deliberately choosing to run not only Debian, but
_ancient_ Debian, complaining about old software looks ridiculous,
and risks alienating people from caring or wanting to help you.

On Thu, 6 Jan 2022 at 16:59, Roy J. Tellason, Sr. <roy@rtellason.com> wrote:

> (Why the repository can't be more up to date than that I don't know.)

This right here is the problem. The "I don't know" bit.
Fix that knowledge gap, or be forever unhappy.

Hint: "be more up to date" is not a primary goal of the Debian project.
Complaining won't change that.
If you want that, use a different distribution.

Some info on how Debian expects to be used:
  https://wiki.debian.org/DontBreakDebian

> I've been nudged more than once to continue with my upgrades to
> bring things up to the current stable version,  but am still not sure
> I want to go there in one swell foop. Too many changes, and things
> that aren't right.

People aren't nudging you to go through a tortuous 8..9..10..11
upgrade process. People are simply recommending that, if you
want to use Debian, that you use the latest stable, 11.
How you get there is your choice.

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#243794

On Thursday 06 January 2022 12:05:38 pm David wrote:
> > I did an upgrade from 8 -> 9,  and that's where things are sitting at the moment.
> > I've been encouraged to get with current stable,  which is what,  11 at this point?
> 
> > I'll get there, but slowly, so I can see what's changed at each step of the process
> > and fix that which ends up broken.

So.
 
> My two cent opinion (after reading all your messages about this process):
> This is not the best approach. A waste of your time, and a waste of our time
> reading, and slightly unpleasant if we have to filter out your dissatisfaction
> at each hurdle.

If you find my posts unpleasant to deal with,  feel free to skip them,  or filter them out completely.  There is that option listed at the bottom of every groups.io message that says "mute this topic"...
 
> Many of the people here who advised you to migrate 8..9..10..11
> (because that is the only way to migrate) are professional system
> administrators whose livelihood depends on keeping complex
> services available to their clients.
> 
> For a home user (I am one), this stepwise upgrade seems like a waste
> of time, unless your hobby is complaining about things that don't work.

You are of course entitled to your opinion of my choices.  In terms of system administration,  *I* am that person here,  and there is a level of functionality and a workflow that I want to have continuously maintained during the upgrade process.  My circumstances are obvously not yours.  And my choices are not yours as well.
 
> In your situation, I would keep the previous system untouched and runnable
> somewhere, and create a fresh Debian 11 somewhere else, and migrate
> the desired workflow, tools and configuration onto it at my leisure.

Right.  That's one way to do it,  all right.  Not my choice here,  for a number of reasons.
 
(snip)
> complaining about old software looks ridiculous,
> and risks alienating people from caring or wanting to help you.

Then feel free to ignore and to not respond to my posts,  if you feel that way.
 
> Some info on how Debian expects to be used:
>   https://wiki.debian.org/DontBreakDebian

Read that,  yesterday or the day before.
 
> > I've been nudged more than once to continue with my upgrades to
> > bring things up to the current stable version,  but am still not sure
> > I want to go there in one swell foop. Too many changes, and things
> > that aren't right.
> 
> People aren't nudging you to go through a tortuous 8..9..10..11
> upgrade process. People are simply recommending that, if you
> want to use Debian, that you use the latest stable, 11.
> How you get there is your choice.

Just so.  I've made my choice,  and am proceeding on that basis.

All:  Please don't cc replies to me to my direct email.  I *do* have this list flowing in here,  and I *do* read the messages...

-- 
Member of the toughest, meanest, deadliest, most unrelenting -- and
ablest -- form of life in this section of space,  a critter that can
be killed but can't be tamed.  --Robert A. Heinlein, "The Puppet Masters"
-
Information is more dangerous than cannon to a society ruled by lies. --James 
M Dakin

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#243770

[Multipart message — attachments visible in raw view] — view raw

On 2022-01-06 10:41 a.m., Roy J. Tellason, Sr. wrote:
> On Thursday 06 January 2022 07:20:43 am Greg Wooledge wrote:
>> On Thu, Jan 06, 2022 at 01:01:07AM -0500, Roy J. Tellason, Sr. wrote:
>>> So I downloaded the current version of the program.  This gets incremental
>>> upgrades all the time,  and the latest one is chirp20220103,  which I
>>> downloaded.  When I went to invoke it directly,  there was an error about
>>> some missing python bit.  Going into synaptic,  I didn't see chirp listed at
>>> all,  though it did show up when I did a search,  and installing that package
>>> got me a version from 2018!  (Why the repository can't be more up to date
>>> than that I don't know.)  This also provided the missing python bit.  So I
>>> edited the application menu entry to point to the new version,  and it now
>>> works.
>>
Debian goal is to be stable, not the latest version available.
Also, running Debian version 8 or 9 (9 being old-old-stable or Stretch)
when we are now at 11 is doing two things :
1st - it disallow you any type of complaint regarding having old
software, because you have made such situation and supported it for many
years from now.
2nd - it prevent you from getting updates when they get out.

>> Going by the version number, that looks like it's from 2020.  Are you
>> not running the current stable release of Debian?
> 
> No,  I'm not.  I had been updating packages from time to time using synaptic,  under the mistaken impression that this would keep things current,  and then I found that not to be the case.  I did an upgrade from 8 -> 9,  and that's where things are sitting at the moment.  I've been encouraged to get with current stable,  which is what,  11 at this point?  I'll get there,  but slowly,  so I can see what's changed at each step of the process and fix that which ends up broken>
Stuff won't be broken if you take a day to create a backup of you data,
do a complete installation of Buster / Bullseye. And restore your data.
You can use a spare partition to save your data, mounting later and copy
those data.

You are creating a messed up hell by using the path you choose. You'll
end up with risking many problem of software having older configuration
(all the ones you manually modified the files in /etc).

It's time to make the jump (and not from a bridge).

>> As far as running your chirp20220103 version, seeing the errors might be
>> helpful.  I'm not a python expert myself, but I'd be willing to bet that
>> someone on this list would be able to advise you if we could see the
>> actual error message.
> 
> It was missing the python-serial package,  which installing the older version in synaptic got me,  so it's working now.  But the version that synaptic installed was from 2018!  That one isn't going to support this radio,  which is a tri-bander,  hence my move to the current version...
You are mostly causing your self most of the problem you will get.
You repeated many time "I don't know" and this seems to support a "I'm
looking into trying to understand why".

But even worse, you are mixing software version from outside source
(like what you seem to be doing with python-serial) and the one supplied
by Debian.

You are only creating a messed up system that no one will understand,
except yourself (and I wouldn't bet on this one).

> 

-- 
Polyna-Maude R.-Summerside
-Be smart, Be wise, Support opensource development

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#243758

Roy J. Tellason, Sr. wrote: 
> So in my Xfce applications menu I have a top-level entry "Ham radio",  and there was exactly _one_ program to invoke under that,  called "chirp".  (I use this to program radios.)  I don't run this too often,  but having recently acquired a new radio I went to fire it up,  and got a "file not found" error.  WTF?  I've no idea where this menu stores its data,  but there was no entry there when I went into the menu option to edit thing.  It just showed *no* entry in there at all.  Why an upgrade would screw with this I have no idea...
> 
> So I downloaded the current version of the program.  This gets incremental upgrades all the time,  and the latest one is chirp20220103,  which I downloaded.  When I went to invoke it directly,  there was an error about some missing python bit.  Going into synaptic,  I didn't see chirp listed at all,  though it did show up when I did a search,  and installing that package got me a version from 2018!  (Why the repository can't be more up to date than that I don't know.)  This also provided the missing python bit.  So I edited the application menu entry to point to the new version,  and it now works.

The change there is that python2 and python3 are ridiculously
incompatible with each other, so programs written in each need
to call the appropriate interpreter. However, most python
programs just assume that "/usr/bin/python" or `env python` will
magically produce the right one.

You can install either one of these metapackages to set the
default:

pytnon-is-python2

python-is-python3

Either way, something's going to break. Blame Guido Van Rossum.

> 
> I've been nudged more than once to continue with my upgrades to bring things up to the current stable version,  but am still not sure I want to go there in one swell foop.  Too many changes,  and things that aren't right.
> 
> I'm stilll trying to figure out what's invoking a screensaver in my virtualbox slackware install,  which I don't want but can't quite figout out how to turn off...

In a terminal in your virtual machine, run 

ps -auwx|grep -e screen -e lock

Almost all screensavers have one of those components in their
process name.

-dsr-

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#243759

On 2022-01-06, Dan Ritter <dsr@randomstring.org> wrote:
>
> The change there is that python2 and python3 are ridiculously
> incompatible with each other, so programs written in each need
> to call the appropriate interpreter. However, most python
> programs just assume that "/usr/bin/python" or `env python` will
> magically produce the right one.

There's still no version of chirp that works with python 3, I guess is the
problem. Did it get removed when the OP upgraded as a result of this?

https://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=983721

> You can install either one of these metapackages to set the
> default:
>
> pytnon-is-python2
>
> python-is-python3
>
> Either way, something's going to break. Blame Guido Van Rossum.
>
>> 

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#243760

On Thu, Jan 06, 2022 at 12:55:51PM -0000, Curt wrote:
> On 2022-01-06, Dan Ritter <dsr@randomstring.org> wrote:
> >
> > The change there is that python2 and python3 are ridiculously
> > incompatible with each other, so programs written in each need
> > to call the appropriate interpreter. However, most python
> > programs just assume that "/usr/bin/python" or `env python` will
> > magically produce the right one.
> 
> There's still no version of chirp that works with python 3, I guess is the
> problem. Did it get removed when the OP upgraded as a result of this?
> 
> https://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=983721
> 
> > You can install either one of these metapackages to set the
> > default:
> >
> > pytnon-is-python2
> >
> > python-is-python3
> >
> > Either way, something's going to break. Blame Guido Van Rossum.
> >
> >> 
> 
>

Chirp is one of those annoying packages that updates very regularly indeed.
It may well be available as an appimage somewhere.

To the original poster:

Bring your machine cleanly up to Bullseye (Debian 11) and we may well be
able to help you better. It's always easier and more straightforward to
be dealing wtih something current because more of us can help you.

With every good wish, as ever,

Andy Cater [also G0EVX]

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#243767

On Thursday 06 January 2022 07:24:47 am Dan Ritter wrote:
> ps -auwx|grep -e screen -e lock

That gets me this:

Warning: bad ps syntax, perhaps a bogus '-'? See http://procps.sf.net/faq.html
root       110  0.0  0.0      0     0 ?        S<    2021   0:15 [kblockd/0]
root       295  0.0  0.0      0     0 ?        S<    2021   0:00 [glock_workqueue]
root      1114  0.0  0.0      0     0 ?        S<    2021   0:00 [block-osm/0]
root     11332  0.0  0.1   2088   668 pts/0    S+   10:41   0:00 grep -e screen -e lock

Not sure what I'm looking at here...

-- 
Member of the toughest, meanest, deadliest, most unrelenting -- and
ablest -- form of life in this section of space,  a critter that can
be killed but can't be tamed.  --Robert A. Heinlein, "The Puppet Masters"
-
Information is more dangerous than cannon to a society ruled by lies. --James 
M Dakin

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#243768

Roy J. Tellason, Sr. wrote: 
> On Thursday 06 January 2022 07:24:47 am Dan Ritter wrote:
> > ps -auwx|grep -e screen -e lock
> 
> That gets me this:
> 
> Warning: bad ps syntax, perhaps a bogus '-'? See http://procps.sf.net/faq.html
> root       110  0.0  0.0      0     0 ?        S<    2021   0:15 [kblockd/0]
> root       295  0.0  0.0      0     0 ?        S<    2021   0:00 [glock_workqueue]
> root      1114  0.0  0.0      0     0 ?        S<    2021   0:00 [block-osm/0]
> root     11332  0.0  0.1   2088   668 pts/0    S+   10:41   0:00 grep -e screen -e lock
> 
> Not sure what I'm looking at here...

No processes with a suitable name.

Is the "screensaver" showing pictures, or just going black after
a while?

-dsr-

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#243792

On Thursday 06 January 2022 11:46:33 am Dan Ritter wrote:
> Roy J. Tellason, Sr. wrote: 
> > On Thursday 06 January 2022 07:24:47 am Dan Ritter wrote:
> > > ps -auwx|grep -e screen -e lock
> > 
> > That gets me this:
> > 
> > Warning: bad ps syntax, perhaps a bogus '-'? See http://procps.sf.net/faq.html
> > root       110  0.0  0.0      0     0 ?        S<    2021   0:15 [kblockd/0]
> > root       295  0.0  0.0      0     0 ?        S<    2021   0:00 [glock_workqueue]
> > root      1114  0.0  0.0      0     0 ?        S<    2021   0:00 [block-osm/0]
> > root     11332  0.0  0.1   2088   668 pts/0    S+   10:41   0:00 grep -e screen -e lock
> > 
> > Not sure what I'm looking at here...
> 
> No processes with a suitable name.
> 
> Is the "screensaver" showing pictures, or just going black after
> a while?

It just goes black.  The inside of the window that virtualbox uses,  that is.  Nothing of the sort happening on the host machine.

-- 
Member of the toughest, meanest, deadliest, most unrelenting -- and
ablest -- form of life in this section of space,  a critter that can
be killed but can't be tamed.  --Robert A. Heinlein, "The Puppet Masters"
-
Information is more dangerous than cannon to a society ruled by lies. --James 
M Dakin

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#243798

Roy J. Tellason, Sr. wrote: 
> On Thursday 06 January 2022 11:46:33 am Dan Ritter wrote:
> > Roy J. Tellason, Sr. wrote: 
> > > Not sure what I'm looking at here...
> > 
> > No processes with a suitable name.
> > 
> > Is the "screensaver" showing pictures, or just going black after
> > a while?
> 
> It just goes black.  The inside of the window that virtualbox uses,  that is.  Nothing of the sort happening on the host machine.


Ah-hah.

Inside the virtualbox, run 

xset s off

which will turn off the built-in X11 screen blanker. 

man xset for details.

-dsr-

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#243806

On Friday 07 January 2022 12:30:55 pm Dan Ritter wrote:
> Roy J. Tellason, Sr. wrote: 
> > On Thursday 06 January 2022 11:46:33 am Dan Ritter wrote:
> > > Roy J. Tellason, Sr. wrote: 
> > > > Not sure what I'm looking at here...
> > > 
> > > No processes with a suitable name.
> > > 
> > > Is the "screensaver" showing pictures, or just going black after
> > > a while?
> > 
> > It just goes black.  The inside of the window that virtualbox uses,  that is.  Nothing of the sort happening on the host machine.
> 
> 
> Ah-hah.
> 
> Inside the virtualbox, run 
> 
> xset s off
> 
> which will turn off the built-in X11 screen blanker. 
> 
> man xset for details.
> 
> -dsr-
 
Okay,  tried that and we'll see what happens.

My question,  then,  is what would have turned this on?  It wasn't on before...

And,  please don't cc to my direct address,  I do get the list here and I do read all of the messages.  Doing so only results in me getting the message twice,  which is not necessary or desirable.


-- 
Member of the toughest, meanest, deadliest, most unrelenting -- and
ablest -- form of life in this section of space,  a critter that can
be killed but can't be tamed.  --Robert A. Heinlein, "The Puppet Masters"
-
Information is more dangerous than cannon to a society ruled by lies. --James 
M Dakin

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#243815

[Multipart message — attachments visible in raw view] — view raw

Hi,

On 2022-01-07 15:03, Roy J. Tellason, Sr. wrote:
> On Friday 07 January 2022 12:30:55 pm Dan Ritter wrote:
>> Roy J. Tellason, Sr. wrote: 
>>> On Thursday 06 January 2022 11:46:33 am Dan Ritter wrote:
>>>> Roy J. Tellason, Sr. wrote: 
>>>>> Not sure what I'm looking at here...
>>>>
>>>> No processes with a suitable name.
>>>>
>>>> Is the "screensaver" showing pictures, or just going black after
>>>> a while?
>>>
>>> It just goes black.  The inside of the window that virtualbox uses,  that is.  Nothing of the sort happening on the host machine.
>>
>>
>> Ah-hah.
>>
>> Inside the virtualbox, run 
>>
>> xset s off
>>
>> which will turn off the built-in X11 screen blanker. 
>>
>> man xset for details.
>>
>> -dsr-
>  
> Okay,  tried that and we'll see what happens.
> 
> My question,  then,  is what would have turned this on?  It wasn't on before...
> 
Could list all you have done on your computer between the time it didn't
show the screen blanker and the time where it started to blank screen.

Only then will we be able to take hours dissecting all the happened and
find the offending action.

I'm sure this type of investigation regards yourself and about the only
other persons being you, oh already said this one.

Sorry, bad joke. Maybe your expectation shall meet reality.

It's like your choice of really wanting to update each version, one at a
time. Like if any down time was a definite impossibility to live with.
Sorry but you are doing yourself more problem than anything else.

And telling user with experience that this is your choice and if they
ain't happy to look somewhere else. Sorry this is called rudeness.

You ask for help, accept what people with experience suggest you.

Or go your own day to the ditch and get yourself out of problem without
asking others. Because at that moment they'll just ignored you, having
took their time to warn you and give you a better path.

No this is not Microsoft tech support where you get all the small talk
you want. Here you get a free service, unlimited, well limited to the
benefits you are smart enough to take from advice.

Still, it's quasi impossible task to answer.

You say "I have a problem".
It didn't work like this before.
I have did thousands of action in between.

Sorry, this is impossible !

Only one thing that you could look at and it's the power settings on
your virtual machine (ACPI and related) and some possible default
general settings on virtualbox (I don't use virtualbox but Qemu has such
a thing).

What you do on your host machine doesn't affect what goes on inside the
virtual system (machine inside virtual box). In case this wasn't obvious.

The only thing that can be touched is the configuration of the host
software.

Cheers
> And,  please don't cc to my direct address,  I do get the list here and I do read all of the messages.  Doing so only results in me getting the message twice,  which is not necessary or desirable.
> 
> 

-- 
Polyna-Maude R.-Summerside
-Be smart, Be wise, Support opensource development

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#244023

[Multipart message — attachments visible in raw view] — view raw

On Vi, 07 ian 22, 20:50:20, Polyna-Maude Racicot-Summerside wrote:
> 
> What you do on your host machine doesn't affect what goes on inside the
> virtual system (machine inside virtual box). In case this wasn't obvious.

I'd bet that e.g. upgrading the virtualization software can (and 
probably often does) affect the guest system.

BIOS/UEFI settings/upgrades and kernel upgrades might have an effect as 
well for virtualization supported by hardware.

Kind regards,
Andrei
-- 
http://wiki.debian.org/FAQsFromDebianUser

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#243818

On Fri 07 Jan 2022 at 15:03:25 (-0500), Roy J. Tellason, Sr. wrote:
> On Friday 07 January 2022 12:30:55 pm Dan Ritter wrote:
> > Roy J. Tellason, Sr. wrote: 
> > > It just goes black.  The inside of the window that virtualbox uses,  that is.  Nothing of the sort happening on the host machine.
> > 
> > Ah-hah.
> > 
> > Inside the virtualbox, run 
> > 
> > xset s off
> > 
> > which will turn off the built-in X11 screen blanker. 
> > 
> > man xset for details.
>  
> Okay,  tried that and we'll see what happens.
> 
> My question,  then,  is what would have turned this on?  It wasn't on before...

The fact that it's the default? Probably after 10 minutes.

Cheers,
David.

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#243831

On Friday 07 January 2022 03:03:25 pm Roy J. Tellason, Sr. wrote:
> On Friday 07 January 2022 12:30:55 pm Dan Ritter wrote:
> > Roy J. Tellason, Sr. wrote: 
> > > On Thursday 06 January 2022 11:46:33 am Dan Ritter wrote:
> > > > Roy J. Tellason, Sr. wrote: 
> > > > > Not sure what I'm looking at here...
> > > > 
> > > > No processes with a suitable name.
> > > > 
> > > > Is the "screensaver" showing pictures, or just going black after
> > > > a while?
> > > 
> > > It just goes black.  The inside of the window that virtualbox uses,  that is.  Nothing of the sort happening on the host machine.
> > 
> > Ah-hah.
> > 
> > Inside the virtualbox, run 
> > 
> > xset s off
> > 
> > which will turn off the built-in X11 screen blanker. 
> > 
> > man xset for details.
> > 
> > -dsr-
>  
> Okay,  tried that and we'll see what happens.
> 
> My question,  then,  is what would have turned this on?  It wasn't on before...

That didn't do it,  but apparently xset -dpms did.

-- 
Member of the toughest, meanest, deadliest, most unrelenting -- and
ablest -- form of life in this section of space,  a critter that can
be killed but can't be tamed.  --Robert A. Heinlein, "The Puppet Masters"
-
Information is more dangerous than cannon to a society ruled by lies. --James 
M Dakin

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#243774

On Thu 06 Jan 2022 at 07:24:47 (-0500), Dan Ritter wrote:
> Roy J. Tellason, Sr. wrote: 
> > So in my Xfce applications menu I have a top-level entry "Ham radio",  and there was exactly _one_ program to invoke under that,  called "chirp".  (I use this to program radios.)  I don't run this too often,  but having recently acquired a new radio I went to fire it up,  and got a "file not found" error.  WTF?  I've no idea where this menu stores its data,  but there was no entry there when I went into the menu option to edit thing.  It just showed *no* entry in there at all.  Why an upgrade would screw with this I have no idea...
> > 
> > So I downloaded the current version of the program.  This gets incremental upgrades all the time,  and the latest one is chirp20220103,  which I downloaded.  When I went to invoke it directly,  there was an error about some missing python bit.  Going into synaptic,  I didn't see chirp listed at all,  though it did show up when I did a search,  and installing that package got me a version from 2018!  (Why the repository can't be more up to date than that I don't know.)  This also provided the missing python bit.  So I edited the application menu entry to point to the new version,  and it now works.
> 
> The change there is that python2 and python3 are ridiculously
> incompatible with each other, so programs written in each need
> to call the appropriate interpreter. However, most python
> programs just assume that "/usr/bin/python" or `env python` will
> magically produce the right one.
> 
> You can install either one of these metapackages to set the
> default:
> 
> pytnon-is-python2
> 
> python-is-python3
> 
> Either way, something's going to break. Blame Guido Van Rossum.

That seems rather unfair. As far as the OP is concerned, their
problems seem to be as much to do with the age and mixed nature
of the system they're doing battle with.

As for Python, human nature is to ignore deadlines until they're
upon us. Unfortunately, this habit is reinforced by extending
deadlines. So seven years notice of the 2015 end for Python2
support turned into a dozen, and by now 2020-01-01 has long passed.

Throughout those years, Python3 was available, and there were
compatibility layers and cheatsheets assisting with or documenting
the production of compatible code or its conversion for deployment
when upgrading. Makes no difference to human nature.

So I think any blame should be shared around a lot more.

Cheers,
David.

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