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Thunderbird not allowing local accounts

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  Thunderbird not allowing local accounts "Paul M. Foster" <paulf@quillandmouse.com> - 2022-01-05 14:40 +0100
    Re: Thunderbird not allowing local accounts Richard Hector <richard@walnut.gen.nz> - 2022-01-05 15:20 +0100
      Re: Thunderbird not allowing local accounts "Paul M. Foster" <paulf@quillandmouse.com> - 2022-01-05 15:50 +0100
        Re: Thunderbird not allowing local accounts Celejar <celejar@gmail.com> - 2022-01-05 18:00 +0100
          Re: Thunderbird not allowing local accounts <paulf@quillandmouse.com> - 2022-01-05 19:40 +0100
            Re: Thunderbird not allowing local accounts Celejar <celejar@gmail.com> - 2022-01-05 21:50 +0100
            Re: Thunderbird not allowing local accounts conover@rahul.net (John Conover) - 2022-01-05 21:50 +0100
              Re: Thunderbird not allowing local accounts Celejar <celejar@gmail.com> - 2022-01-05 22:20 +0100
              Re: Thunderbird not allowing local accounts Brad Rogers <brad@fineby.me.uk> - 2022-01-06 08:40 +0100
                Re: Thunderbird not allowing local accounts Brad Rogers <brad@fineby.me.uk> - 2022-01-06 16:30 +0100
                  Re: Thunderbird not allowing local accounts <paulf@quillandmouse.com> - 2022-01-06 21:10 +0100
                Re: Thunderbird not allowing local accounts "Jeremy Nicoll" <jn.ml.dbn.25@letterboxes.org> - 2022-01-06 16:30 +0100
              Re: Thunderbird not allowing local accounts Marc Shapiro <marcnshap@gmail.com> - 2022-02-07 03:20 +0100
          Re: Thunderbird not allowing local accounts rhkramer@gmail.com - 2022-01-06 02:30 +0100
          Re: Thunderbird not allowing local accounts didier gaumet <didier.gaumet@gmail.com> - 2022-01-06 09:30 +0100
            Re: Thunderbird not allowing local accounts Celejar <celejar@gmail.com> - 2022-01-06 15:00 +0100
        Re: Thunderbird not allowing local accounts Charles Curley <charlescurley@charlescurley.com> - 2022-01-05 19:50 +0100
          Re: Thunderbird not allowing local accounts Eric S Fraga <e.fraga@ucl.ac.uk> - 2022-01-06 11:50 +0100
            Re: Thunderbird not allowing local accounts Celejar <celejar@gmail.com> - 2022-01-06 15:00 +0100
          Re: Thunderbird not allowing local accounts John Crawley <john@bunsenlabs.org> - 2022-01-08 08:00 +0100
            Re: Thunderbird not allowing local accounts "Bob Crochelt" <rfc56@fastmail.com> - 2022-01-08 15:40 +0100
        Re: Thunderbird not allowing local accounts didier gaumet <didier.gaumet@gmail.com> - 2022-01-06 09:50 +0100
          Re: Thunderbird not allowing local accounts didier.gaumet@gmail.com - 2022-01-06 10:20 +0100
    Re: Thunderbird not allowing local accounts "Jeremy Nicoll" <jn.ml.dbn.25@letterboxes.org> - 2022-01-05 20:30 +0100
      Re: Thunderbird not allowing local accounts Dan Ritter <dsr@randomstring.org> - 2022-01-05 21:10 +0100
        Re: Thunderbird not allowing local accounts "Jeremy Nicoll" <jn.ml.dbn.25@letterboxes.org> - 2022-01-05 21:20 +0100

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#243708 — Thunderbird not allowing local accounts

Folks:

I just restarted my machine, and am using Thunderbird 91.4.1 (the 
latest) 64 bit on Debian 11. I didn't reinstall Thunderbird or upgrade 
it. Before I restarted the machine, I had a Thunderbird email account 
for local emails, which grabbed email from my /var/mail/paulf folder. 
Now that account doesn't show up in Thunderbird, and I'm unable to 
create an account like that (one which grabs mail from a local folder). 
The dialogs which used to be there allowing you to create a localhost 
mbox account are gone. I've verified the (complicated) procedure for 
doing this on the Internet, and the dialogs shown are no longer in 
Thunderbird. I am unable to create a localhost email account in Thunderbird.

Any help? Did Thunderbird make some change I don't know about?

Paul

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#243712

On 6/01/22 02:35, Paul M. Foster wrote:
> Folks:
> 
> I just restarted my machine, and am using Thunderbird 91.4.1 (the 
> latest) 64 bit on Debian 11. I didn't reinstall Thunderbird or upgrade 
> it. Before I restarted the machine, I had a Thunderbird email account 
> for local emails, which grabbed email from my /var/mail/paulf folder. 
> Now that account doesn't show up in Thunderbird, and I'm unable to 
> create an account like that (one which grabs mail from a local folder). 
> The dialogs which used to be there allowing you to create a localhost 
> mbox account are gone. I've verified the (complicated) procedure for 
> doing this on the Internet, and the dialogs shown are no longer in 
> Thunderbird. I am unable to create a localhost email account in 
> Thunderbird.
> 
> Any help? Did Thunderbird make some change I don't know about?
> 
> Paul
> 

Looks like it :-(

https://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=993526
https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1625741

Richard

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#243714

On 1/5/22 09:05, Richard Hector wrote:
> On 6/01/22 02:35, Paul M. Foster wrote:
>> Folks:
>>
>> I just restarted my machine, and am using Thunderbird 91.4.1 (the 
>> latest) 64 bit on Debian 11. I didn't reinstall Thunderbird or upgrade 
>> it. Before I restarted the machine, I had a Thunderbird email account 
>> for local emails, which grabbed email from my /var/mail/paulf folder. 
>> Now that account doesn't show up in Thunderbird, and I'm unable to 
>> create an account like that (one which grabs mail from a local 
>> folder). The dialogs which used to be there allowing you to create a 
>> localhost mbox account are gone. I've verified the (complicated) 
>> procedure for doing this on the Internet, and the dialogs shown are no 
>> longer in Thunderbird. I am unable to create a localhost email account 
>> in Thunderbird.
>>
>> Any help? Did Thunderbird make some change I don't know about?
>>
>> Paul
>>
> 
> Looks like it :-(
> 
> https://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=993526
> https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1625741
> 
> Richard
> 

Thanks for the info. Mozilla Foundation is seriously annoying me lately.

Can anyone recommend another MUA which uses mbox format and is 
relatively easy to configure?

Paul

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#243723

On Wed, 5 Jan 2022 09:44:24 -0500
"Paul M. Foster" <paulf@quillandmouse.com> wrote:

...

> Thanks for the info. Mozilla Foundation is seriously annoying me lately.
> 
> Can anyone recommend another MUA which uses mbox format and is 
> relatively easy to configure?

Sylpheed?

Celejar

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#243732

On Wed, 5 Jan 2022 11:58:09 -0500
Celejar <celejar@gmail.com> wrote:

> On Wed, 5 Jan 2022 09:44:24 -0500
> "Paul M. Foster" <paulf@quillandmouse.com> wrote:
> 
> ...
> 
> > Thanks for the info. Mozilla Foundation is seriously annoying me
> > lately.
> > 
> > Can anyone recommend another MUA which uses mbox format and is 
> > relatively easy to configure?
> 
> Sylpheed?
> 
> Celejar
> 

It's starting to look that way. Actually, I'm looking at claws-mail.

-- 
Paul M. Foster
http://noferblatz.com
http://quillandmouse.com

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#243741

On Wed, 5 Jan 2022 13:28:55 -0500
<paulf@quillandmouse.com> wrote:

> On Wed, 5 Jan 2022 11:58:09 -0500
> Celejar <celejar@gmail.com> wrote:
> 
> > On Wed, 5 Jan 2022 09:44:24 -0500
> > "Paul M. Foster" <paulf@quillandmouse.com> wrote:
> > 
> > ...
> > 
> > > Thanks for the info. Mozilla Foundation is seriously annoying me
> > > lately.
> > > 
> > > Can anyone recommend another MUA which uses mbox format and is 
> > > relatively easy to configure?
> > 
> > Sylpheed?
> > 
> > Celejar
> > 
> 
> It's starting to look that way. Actually, I'm looking at claws-mail.

Claws started out as a fork of Sylph, but eventually evolved into a
distinct application. Sylph is very good, if not the newest and
shiniest thing. Claws is probably very good, too, although I've never
used it.

Celejar

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#243742

paulf@quillandmouse.com writes:
> On Wed, 5 Jan 2022 11:58:09 -0500
> Celejar <celejar@gmail.com> wrote:
> 
> > On Wed, 5 Jan 2022 09:44:24 -0500
> > "Paul M. Foster" <paulf@quillandmouse.com> wrote:
> > 
> > ...
> > 
> > > Thanks for the info. Mozilla Foundation is seriously annoying me
> > > lately.
> > > 
> > > Can anyone recommend another MUA which uses mbox format and is 
> > > relatively easy to configure?
> > 
> > Sylpheed?
> > 
> > Celejar
> > 
> 
> It's starting to look that way. Actually, I'm looking at claws-mail.
>

Yea, and claws-mail is not compatible with Gmail's oauth2, which is
now required by Google, (as of this month,) and Thunderbird is
compatible, but no longer supports local mbox delivery for a LAN.

Kind of a mess.

    John

-- 

John Conover, conover@rahul.net, http://www.johncon.com/

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#243744

On Wed, 5 Jan 2022 12:33:36 -0800
conover@rahul.net (John Conover) wrote:

> paulf@quillandmouse.com writes:
> > On Wed, 5 Jan 2022 11:58:09 -0500
> > Celejar <celejar@gmail.com> wrote:
> > 
> > > On Wed, 5 Jan 2022 09:44:24 -0500
> > > "Paul M. Foster" <paulf@quillandmouse.com> wrote:
> > > 
> > > ...
> > > 
> > > > Thanks for the info. Mozilla Foundation is seriously annoying me
> > > > lately.
> > > > 
> > > > Can anyone recommend another MUA which uses mbox format and is 
> > > > relatively easy to configure?
> > > 
> > > Sylpheed?
> > > 
> > > Celejar
> > > 
> > 
> > It's starting to look that way. Actually, I'm looking at claws-mail.
> >
> 
> Yea, and claws-mail is not compatible with Gmail's oauth2, which is
> now required by Google, (as of this month,) and Thunderbird is

? I'm still downloading my Gmail email via POP3 with getmail, without
OAuth2. For a couple of years now, Google has been pushing OAuth2, but
has still allowed ordinary POP3 / IMAP access to email using "app
specific passwords." Has something changed recently?

https://support.google.com/mail/thread/23019816/how-can-i-continue-to-use-pop-based-email-after-oauth-is-required-next-year

> compatible, but no longer supports local mbox delivery for a LAN.

FWIW, BTW, getmail (which does support mbox delivery) does have support
for Gmail's OAuth2 (in case you want / need to use it) via its
getmail-gmail-xoauth-tokens script:

https://www.bytereef.org/howto/oauth2/getmail.html

You can also find detailed instructions in the file
"getmailrc-examples.gz", in Debian's getmail6 package.

Celejar

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#243751

[Multipart message — attachments visible in raw view] — view raw

On Wed, 5 Jan 2022 12:33:36 -0800
conover@rahul.net (John Conover) wrote:

Hello John,

>Yea, and claws-mail is not compatible with Gmail's oauth2, which is

Many CM users are successfully collecting mail from google using oauth2.

-- 
 Regards  _
         / )      "The blindingly obvious is never immediately apparent"
        / _)rad   "Is it only me that has a working delete key?"
I must be hallucinating, watching angels celebrating
There Must Be An Angel (Playing With My Heart) - Eurythmics

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#243764

[Multipart message — attachments visible in raw view] — view raw

On Thu, 06 Jan 2022 15:19:27 +0000
"Jeremy Nicoll" <jn.ml.dbn.25@letterboxes.org> wrote:

Hello Jeremy,

>but other servers that use OAuth2 - notably Microsoft ones - regularly
>revoke users' access tokens and the users currently have to set those

Not using oauth myself, I'd failed to do more than simply glance at some
of those messages as it' not really of interest to me.  Having just read
a few in more of those messages in depth, that certainly seem to be the
case.  What a palaver.  The cynic in me says they're doing this to
discourage non-preferred software from being used.

-- 
 Regards  _
         / )      "The blindingly obvious is never immediately apparent"
        / _)rad   "Is it only me that has a working delete key?"
Never give in until they crack
Emergency - 999

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#243771

On Thu, 6 Jan 2022 15:26:23 +0000
Brad Rogers <brad@fineby.me.uk> wrote:

> On Thu, 06 Jan 2022 15:19:27 +0000
> "Jeremy Nicoll" <jn.ml.dbn.25@letterboxes.org> wrote:
> 
> Hello Jeremy,
> 
> >but other servers that use OAuth2 - notably Microsoft ones -
> >regularly revoke users' access tokens and the users currently have
> >to set those
> 
> Not using oauth myself, I'd failed to do more than simply glance at
> some of those messages as it' not really of interest to me.  Having
> just read a few in more of those messages in depth, that certainly
> seem to be the case.  What a palaver.  The cynic in me says they're
> doing this to discourage non-preferred software from being used.
> 

That's not cynicism, it's realism. Microsoft alone has been doing this
kind of thing for decades. Case in point: when I switched from
Thunderbird to Claws-Mail, I had to sign into my Google account and
okay the use of this "new" email client, before I could fetch my gmail
mail in Claws-Mail. Including two factor authentication on my cell
phone. The only way I knew to do that was because my wife had had to go
through it earlier on her Mac.

Paul

-- 
Paul M. Foster
http://noferblatz.com
http://quillandmouse.com

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#243765

On Thu, 6 Jan 2022, at 05:31, Brad Rogers wrote:

> Many CM users are successfully collecting mail from google using
> oauth2.

In the last couple of days there's been a flurry of discussion on the CM
Developers' mail list about some problems with OAuth2 though.

My impression, not knowing the ins&outs, is that CM is ok with google
but other servers that use OAuth2 - notably Microsoft ones - regularly
revoke users' access tokens and the users currently have to set those
up again manually.

-- 
Jeremy Nicoll - my opinions are my own.

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#245066

On 1/5/22 12:33, John Conover wrote:
> paulf@quillandmouse.com writes:
>> On Wed, 5 Jan 2022 11:58:09 -0500
>> Celejar <celejar@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> On Wed, 5 Jan 2022 09:44:24 -0500
>>> "Paul M. Foster" <paulf@quillandmouse.com> wrote:
>>>
>>> ...
>>>
>>>> Thanks for the info. Mozilla Foundation is seriously annoying me
>>>> lately.
>>>>
>>>> Can anyone recommend another MUA which uses mbox format and is
>>>> relatively easy to configure?
>>> Sylpheed?
>>>
>>> Celejar
>>>
>> It's starting to look that way. Actually, I'm looking at claws-mail.
>>
> Yea, and claws-mail is not compatible with Gmail's oauth2, which is
> now required by Google, (as of this month,) and Thunderbird is
> compatible, but no longer supports local mbox delivery for a LAN.
>
> Kind of a mess.
>
>      John

DISCLAIMER:

     * I am running on Devuan, then days, not Debian

     * I get my Thunderbird directly from Mozilla  (Currently 91.5.1)

I have local accounts set up so that I can receive e-mail sent by cron.  
I have had no difficulty with receiving these e-mails. Over the last two 
months, I have used 91.4.0, 91.4.1, 91.5.0, and now 91.5.1.  None have 
given me any problems with receiving e-mail sent by cron to my local 
account.  Under "Local Folders" I have an account with my name.  
Properties shows the location of this to be 'mailbox:///var/mail/marc'.  
No soft links required.  Am I misunderstanding the problem, here?

Marc

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#243748

On Wednesday, January 05, 2022 11:58:09 AM Celejar wrote:
> On Wed, 5 Jan 2022 09:44:24 -0500
> "Paul M. Foster" <paulf@quillandmouse.com> wrote:
> > Can anyone recommend another MUA which uses mbox format and is
> > relatively easy to configure?
> 
> Sylpheed?

kmail (for kde prior to 4.8.4, and maybe a few later versions, but by 4.14.2., 
it no longer supported mbox)

e.g., kmail, kmail 1.13.7 under kde 4.8.4 (on Debian Wheezy (yeah, I know)

or the kmail in TDE (the Trinity Desktop Environment) 

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#243752

Le mercredi 05 janvier 2022 à 11:58 -0500, Celejar a écrit :
> On Wed, 5 Jan 2022 09:44:24 -0500
> "Paul M. Foster" <paulf@quillandmouse.com> wrote:
> 
> ...
> 
> > Thanks for the info. Mozilla Foundation is seriously annoying me
> > lately.
> > 
> > Can anyone recommend another MUA which uses mbox format and is 
> > relatively easy to configure?
> 
> Sylpheed?
> 
> Celejar
> 
> 

Hello Celejar,


Sylpheed does not manage Mbox mailboxes, only MH mailboxes

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#243762

On Thu, 06 Jan 2022 09:26:16 +0100
didier gaumet <didier.gaumet@gmail.com> wrote:

> 
> 
> Le mercredi 05 janvier 2022 à 11:58 -0500, Celejar a écrit :
> > On Wed, 5 Jan 2022 09:44:24 -0500
> > "Paul M. Foster" <paulf@quillandmouse.com> wrote:
> > 
> > ...
> > 
> > > Thanks for the info. Mozilla Foundation is seriously annoying me
> > > lately.
> > > 
> > > Can anyone recommend another MUA which uses mbox format and is 
> > > relatively easy to configure?
> > 
> > Sylpheed?
> > 
> > Celejar
> > 
> > 
> 
> Hello Celejar,
> 
> 
> Sylpheed does not manage Mbox mailboxes, only MH mailboxes

Sorry, my mistake. I conflated its support for importing from and
exporting to mbox with actual use of mbox.

Celejar

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#243733

On Wed, 5 Jan 2022 09:44:24 -0500
"Paul M. Foster" <paulf@quillandmouse.com> wrote:

> Can anyone recommend another MUA which uses mbox format and is 
> relatively easy to configure?

Claws-mail and mutt for two.

Or, if you want to stick with your investment in Thunderbird, use
dovecot to set up a local imap server.

-- 
Does anybody read signatures any more?

https://charlescurley.com
https://charlescurley.com/blog/

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#243755

On Wednesday,  5 Jan 2022 at 11:26, Charles Curley wrote:
> Or, if you want to stick with your investment in Thunderbird, use
> dovecot to set up a local imap server.

dovecot is also quite useful for letting those MUAs that do not support
oauth2 access services which require it.

-- 
Eric S Fraga with org 9.5.2 in Emacs 29.0.50 on Debian 11.2

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#243761

On Thu, 06 Jan 2022 10:40:10 +0000
Eric S Fraga <e.fraga@ucl.ac.uk> wrote:

> On Wednesday,  5 Jan 2022 at 11:26, Charles Curley wrote:
> > Or, if you want to stick with your investment in Thunderbird, use
> > dovecot to set up a local imap server.
> 
> dovecot is also quite useful for letting those MUAs that do not support
> oauth2 access services which require it.

And there's also this, although I have not used it and don't know how
well it works:

https://github.com/simonrob/email-oauth2-proxy

Celejar

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#243820

On 06/01/2022 03:26, Charles Curley wrote:
> On Wed, 5 Jan 2022 09:44:24 -0500
> "Paul M. Foster" <paulf@quillandmouse.com> wrote:
> 
>> Can anyone recommend another MUA which uses mbox format and is
>> relatively easy to configure?
> 
> Claws-mail and mutt for two.
> 
> Or, if you want to stick with your investment in Thunderbird, use
> dovecot to set up a local imap server.

This issue hit me this morning too. With a huge decades-long investment in TB.
Much websearching later, discovered that setting up dovecot as a local imap server is nowhere as complicated as it looks [1].

Just install dovecot-imapd + dependencies
It's configured by default to do exactly what's needed here (serve /var/mail<username>).

Then set up a new imap account on Thunderbird:

name and email address <username>@<hostname>

Server Type: IMAP Mail Server
Server Name: localhost, Port: 143
User Name: <username>
Connection security: None
Authentication method: Password, transmitted insecurely

It seems to be working now. Just have to wait to see if it fetches new messages as they arrive...

[1] https://forums.linuxmint.com/viewtopic.php?p=2089364&sid=3a7ead4db70a4207632405a9aa06dc59#p2089364

-- 
John

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