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  Debian courtneyxshort <courtneyxshort@btinternet.com> - 2021-10-19 13:40 +0200
    Re: Debian piorunz <piorunz@gmx.com> - 2021-10-19 13:50 +0200
      Re: Debian Greg Wooledge <greg@wooledge.org> - 2021-10-19 14:00 +0200
        Re: Debian piorunz <piorunz@gmx.com> - 2021-10-19 14:10 +0200
        Re: Debian lou <loushanguan2015@sina.com> - 2021-10-19 14:20 +0200
          Re: Debian Greg Wooledge <greg@wooledge.org> - 2021-10-19 14:20 +0200
            Re: Debian lou <loushanguan2015@sina.com> - 2021-10-19 14:30 +0200
            Re: Debian Curt <curty@free.fr> - 2021-10-19 17:40 +0200
          Re: Debian piorunz <piorunz@gmx.com> - 2021-10-19 14:50 +0200
            Re: Debian Dan Ritter <dsr@randomstring.org> - 2021-10-19 15:30 +0200
              Re: Debian Peter Ehlert <pb21a@sdi-baja.com> - 2021-10-19 15:50 +0200
                Re: Debian David Wright <deblis@lionunicorn.co.uk> - 2021-10-19 17:30 +0200
                  Re: Debian Dan Ritter <dsr@randomstring.org> - 2021-10-19 18:10 +0200
                  Re: Debian piorunz <piorunz@gmx.com> - 2021-10-19 18:10 +0200
    Re: Debian Jerome BENOIT <sphericaltriangle@rezozer.net> - 2021-10-19 14:10 +0200
    Re: Debian Jerome BENOIT <sphericaltriangle@rezozer.net> - 2021-10-19 14:10 +0200
    Re: Debian Dan Ritter <dsr@randomstring.org> - 2021-10-19 14:20 +0200
    Re: Debian "Thomas Schmitt" <scdbackup@gmx.net> - 2021-10-19 14:30 +0200
    Re: Debian "Andrew M.A. Cater" <amacater@einval.com> - 2021-10-19 18:00 +0200

#241492 — Debian

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Hello,

I am a Computer Science Masters student and part of my degree involves 
me downloading Debian on my Mac. I have tried this countless times and I 
have been unsuccessful.  I've watched Youtube videos/ read the 
information on your website and I am still unable to do this.

Is this something you could please help me with? I would be so grateful.

Courtney

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#241493

On 19/10/2021 12:11, courtneyxshort wrote:

> I am a Computer Science Masters student and part of my degree involves
> me downloading Debian on my Mac. I have tried this countless times and I
> have been unsuccessful. I've watched Youtube videos/ read the
> information on your website and I am still unable to do this.
> Is this something you could please help me with? I would be so grateful.
> Courtney


Hi Courtney.

You have been unsuccessful in what? Downloading Debian? Can you
elaborate what exactly went wrong? We will be happy to assist once we
know what have failed.

--
With kindest regards, Piotr.

⢀⣴⠾⠻⢶⣦⠀
⣾⠁⢠⠒⠀⣿⡁ Debian - The universal operating system
⢿⡄⠘⠷⠚⠋⠀ https://www.debian.org
⠈⠳⣄⠀⠀⠀⠀

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#241494

On Tue, Oct 19, 2021 at 12:46:41PM +0100, piorunz wrote:
> On 19/10/2021 12:11, courtneyxshort wrote:
> 
> > I am a Computer Science Masters student and part of my degree involves
> > me downloading Debian on my Mac. I have tried this countless times and I
> > have been unsuccessful. I've watched Youtube videos/ read the
> > information on your website and I am still unable to do this.
> > Is this something you could please help me with? I would be so grateful.
> > Courtney
> 
> 
> Hi Courtney.
> 
> You have been unsuccessful in what? Downloading Debian? Can you
> elaborate what exactly went wrong? We will be happy to assist once we
> know what have failed.

I'm guessing she meant "installing" Debian, but who knows.

If she's actually going to attempt an installation, it would be helpful
to know which model Mac she's using.

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#241496

On 19/10/2021 12:58, Greg Wooledge wrote:
> On Tue, Oct 19, 2021 at 12:46:41PM +0100, piorunz wrote:
>> On 19/10/2021 12:11, courtneyxshort wrote:
>>
>>> I am a Computer Science Masters student and part of my degree involves
>>> me downloading Debian on my Mac. I have tried this countless times and I
>>> have been unsuccessful. I've watched Youtube videos/ read the
>>> information on your website and I am still unable to do this.
>>> Is this something you could please help me with? I would be so grateful.
>>> Courtney
>>
>>
>> Hi Courtney.
>>
>> You have been unsuccessful in what? Downloading Debian? Can you
>> elaborate what exactly went wrong? We will be happy to assist once we
>> know what have failed.
>
> I'm guessing she meant "installing" Debian, but who knows.
>
> If she's actually going to attempt an installation, it would be helpful
> to know which model Mac she's using.

Yes, who knows. I won't write essays and jump to conclusions. One who
seeks help must know what they need help with, first.

--
With kindest regards, Piotr.

⢀⣴⠾⠻⢶⣦⠀
⣾⠁⢠⠒⠀⣿⡁ Debian - The universal operating system
⢿⡄⠘⠷⠚⠋⠀ https://www.debian.org
⠈⠳⣄⠀⠀⠀⠀

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#241498

On 19/10/2021 12:11, courtneyxshort wrote:
>>> I am a Computer Science Masters student and part of my degree involves
>>> me downloading Debian on my Mac. I have tried this countless times and I
>>> have been unsuccessful. I've watched Youtube videos/ read the
>>> information on your website and I am still unable to do this.
>>> Is this something you could please help me with? I would be so grateful.
>>> Courtney
>>
>

Computer Science Masters student don't know how to download (use) debian on Mac??
it's quite unbelievable.

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#241499

On Tue, Oct 19, 2021 at 08:10:02AM -0400, lou wrote:
> On 19/10/2021 12:11, courtneyxshort wrote:
> > > > I am a Computer Science Masters student and part of my degree involves
> > > > me downloading Debian on my Mac. I have tried this countless times and I
> > > > have been unsuccessful. I've watched Youtube videos/ read the
> > > > information on your website and I am still unable to do this.
> > > > Is this something you could please help me with? I would be so grateful.
> > > > Courtney
> > > 
> > 
> 
> Computer Science Masters student don't know how to download (use) debian on Mac??
> it's quite unbelievable.

No, that's fully believable.  It's a fairly specialized knowledge set,
which a Computer Science student may not possess.

What's more worrying is the vagueness of the help request.  You'd think
such a student would provide at least a modicum of detail, like which
model computer they're using, which version of Debian they tried to
download (and install??) and what the error message said.

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#241501

On 10/19/21 8:13 AM, Greg Wooledge wrote:
> No, that's fully believable. It's a fairly specialized knowledge 
> set,which a Computer Science student may not possess.
> What's more worrying is the vagueness of the help request.  You'd think
> such a student would provide at least a modicum of detail, like which
> model computer they're using, which version of Debian they tried to
> download (and install??) and what the error message said.
>
>
i think he/she is CS student pursuing Master degree

deian/linux is mature product, documentation/howto abounds on Internet

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#241513

On 2021-10-19, Greg Wooledge <greg@wooledge.org> wrote:
> On Tue, Oct 19, 2021 at 08:10:02AM -0400, lou wrote:
>> On 19/10/2021 12:11, courtneyxshort wrote:
>> > > > I am a Computer Science Masters student and part of my degree involves
>> > > > me downloading Debian on my Mac. I have tried this countless times and I
>> > > > have been unsuccessful. I've watched Youtube videos/ read the
>> > > > information on your website and I am still unable to do this.
>> > > > Is this something you could please help me with? I would be so grateful.
>> > > > Courtney
>> > > 
>> > 
>> 
>> Computer Science Masters student don't know how to download (use) debian on Mac??
>> it's quite unbelievable.
>
> No, that's fully believable.  It's a fairly specialized knowledge set,
> which a Computer Science student may not possess.
>
> What's more worrying is the vagueness of the help request.  You'd think
> such a student would provide at least a modicum of detail, like which
> model computer they're using, which version of Debian they tried to
> download (and install??) and what the error message said.
>
>

Computer "Sigh"ence, I guess.

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#241503

On 19/10/2021 13:10, lou wrote:
> On 19/10/2021 12:11, courtneyxshort wrote:
>>>> I am a Computer Science Masters student and part of my degree involves
>>>> me downloading Debian on my Mac. I have tried this countless times
>>>> and I
>>>> have been unsuccessful. I've watched Youtube videos/ read the
>>>> information on your website and I am still unable to do this.
>>>> Is this something you could please help me with? I would be so
>>>> grateful.
>>>> Courtney
>>>
>>
>
> Computer Science Masters student don't know how to download (use) debian
> on Mac??
> it's quite unbelievable.
>
Yep, sounds fishy.

--
With kindest regards, Piotr.

⢀⣴⠾⠻⢶⣦⠀
⣾⠁⢠⠒⠀⣿⡁ Debian - The universal operating system
⢿⡄⠘⠷⠚⠋⠀ https://www.debian.org
⠈⠳⣄⠀⠀⠀⠀

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#241505

piorunz wrote: 
> On 19/10/2021 13:10, lou wrote:
> > On 19/10/2021 12:11, courtneyxshort wrote:
> > > > > I am a Computer Science Masters student and part of my degree involves
> > > > > me downloading Debian on my Mac. I have tried this countless times
> > > > > and I
> > > > > have been unsuccessful. I've watched Youtube videos/ read the
> > > > > information on your website and I am still unable to do this.
> > > > > Is this something you could please help me with? I would be so
> > > > > grateful.
> > > > > Courtney
> > > > 
> > > 
> > 
> > Computer Science Masters student don't know how to download (use) debian
> > on Mac??
> > it's quite unbelievable.
> > 
> Yep, sounds fishy.

It's getting towards off-topic, but I can confirm that just
because a person is working on a CS master's degree, that
doesn't mean they have any degree of competence.

There is a major university here in the Boston area where the CS
undergrads are consistently better than the graduate students.
My company gets many of both interviewing for temporary positions.
The undergrads tend to be clever, curious, and ready to learn;
the grad students are frequently (not always) prone to making up
fantasy answers rather than admitting that they don't know
something.

-dsr-

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#241506

On 10/19/21 6:08 AM, Dan Ritter wrote:
> piorunz wrote:
>> On 19/10/2021 13:10, lou wrote:
>>> On 19/10/2021 12:11, courtneyxshort wrote:
>>>>>> I am a Computer Science Masters student and part of my degree involves
>>>>>> me downloading Debian on my Mac. I have tried this countless times
>>>>>> and I
>>>>>> have been unsuccessful. I've watched Youtube videos/ read the
>>>>>> information on your website and I am still unable to do this.
>>>>>> Is this something you could please help me with? I would be so
>>>>>> grateful.
>>>>>> Courtney
>>> Computer Science Masters student don't know how to download (use) debian
>>> on Mac??
>>> it's quite unbelievable.
>>>
>> Yep, sounds fishy.
> It's getting towards off-topic, but I can confirm that just
> because a person is working on a CS master's degree, that
> doesn't mean they have any degree of competence.
>
> There is a major university here in the Boston area where the CS
> undergrads are consistently better than the graduate students.
> My company gets many of both interviewing for temporary positions.
> The undergrads tend to be clever, curious, and ready to learn;
> the grad students are frequently (not always) prone to making up
> fantasy answers rather than admitting that they don't know
> something.
>
> -dsr-
>
that is an interesting observation, similar to mine interviewing for 
civil engineering and land surveying positions

I suspect "courtneyxshort" is not in a local that is native English speaking

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#241512

On Tue 19 Oct 2021 at 06:41:14 (-0700), Peter Ehlert wrote:
> On 10/19/21 6:08 AM, Dan Ritter wrote:
> > piorunz wrote:
> > > On 19/10/2021 13:10, lou wrote:
> > > > On 19/10/2021 12:11, courtneyxshort wrote:
> > > > > > > I am a Computer Science Masters student and part of my degree involves
> > > > > > > me downloading Debian on my Mac. I have tried this countless times
> > > > > > > and I
> > > > > > > have been unsuccessful. I've watched Youtube videos/ read the
> > > > > > > information on your website and I am still unable to do this.
> > > > > > > Is this something you could please help me with? I would be so
> > > > > > > grateful.
> > > > > > > Courtney
> > > > Computer Science Masters student don't know how to download (use) debian
> > > > on Mac??
> > > > it's quite unbelievable.
> > > > 
> > > Yep, sounds fishy.
> > It's getting towards off-topic, but I can confirm that just
> > because a person is working on a CS master's degree, that
> > doesn't mean they have any degree of competence.
> > 
> > There is a major university here in the Boston area where the CS
> > undergrads are consistently better than the graduate students.
> > My company gets many of both interviewing for temporary positions.
> > The undergrads tend to be clever, curious, and ready to learn;
> > the grad students are frequently (not always) prone to making up
> > fantasy answers rather than admitting that they don't know
> > something.

That can be caused by selection bias: you're offering something
attractive to the brighter students at undergraduate level; by the
time those brighter students have graduated, they may already be
networking with a wider geographical range of institutions offering
something more permanent.

> that is an interesting observation, similar to mine interviewing for
> civil engineering and land surveying positions
> 
> I suspect "courtneyxshort" is not in a local[e] that is native English speaking

That seems unlikely, seeing as they post in British Summer Time
through an IP address owned by BSKYB-BROADBAND (Sky UK Limited)
that geolocates around Northolt/Uxbridge, near the east end of
the so-called Silicon Corridor.

Cheers,
David.

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#241515

David Wright wrote: 
> On Tue 19 Oct 2021 at 06:41:14 (-0700), Peter Ehlert wrote:
> > On 10/19/21 6:08 AM, Dan Ritter wrote:
> > > It's getting towards off-topic, but I can confirm that just
> > > because a person is working on a CS master's degree, that
> > > doesn't mean they have any degree of competence.
> > > 
> > > There is a major university here in the Boston area where the CS
> > > undergrads are consistently better than the graduate students.
> > > My company gets many of both interviewing for temporary positions.
> > > The undergrads tend to be clever, curious, and ready to learn;
> > > the grad students are frequently (not always) prone to making up
> > > fantasy answers rather than admitting that they don't know
> > > something.
> 
> That can be caused by selection bias: you're offering something
> attractive to the brighter students at undergraduate level; by the
> time those brighter students have graduated, they may already be
> networking with a wider geographical range of institutions offering
> something more permanent.

I actually fear that the selection bias is in a different place:
the undergrads are the product of a competitive academic
process; the grad students appear to have been selected for
ability to pay.

-dsr-

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#241516

On 19/10/2021 16:29, David Wright wrote:
>> I suspect "courtneyxshort" is not in a local[e] that is native English speaking
> That seems unlikely, seeing as they post in British Summer Time
> through an IP address owned by BSKYB-BROADBAND (Sky UK Limited)
> that geolocates around Northolt/Uxbridge, near the east end of
> the so-called Silicon Corridor.

Yep. Nailed it. "Courtney" is in the UK, has got @btinternet.com e-mail
address which is for BT Group plc (trading as BT and formerly British
Telecom) customers only.

--
With kindest regards, Piotr.

⢀⣴⠾⠻⢶⣦⠀
⣾⠁⢠⠒⠀⣿⡁ Debian - The universal operating system
⢿⡄⠘⠷⠚⠋⠀ https://www.debian.org
⠈⠳⣄⠀⠀⠀⠀

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#241495

On 19/10/2021 13:50, courtneyxshort wrote:
> So there is no possible way to support Debian?

Currently there is no easy way to install Debian (or any Linux based distribution) on recent Macs.
People are working on porting the Linux kernel on them, but it is not a one-day job.
As noticed on the Debian-User list, you must be more specific on what you really want to do:
technical terms are here important.
Best, Jerome


> 
> 
> 
>     ------ Original Message ------
>     From: "Jerome BENOIT" <sphericaltriangle@rezozer.net>
>     To: "courtneyxshort" <courtneyxshort@btinternet.com>; debian-user@lists.debian.org
>     Sent: Tuesday, 19 Oct, 21 At 12:45
>     Subject: Re: Debian
> 
>     Hi Courtney,
>     latest Mac are not well, if not at all, supported by Linux.
>     You may try to install Debian on a PC (or an old supported mac) instead.
>     hth,
>     Jerome
> 
>     On 19/10/2021 13:11, courtneyxshort wrote:
>     			Hello,
> 
> 
>     I am a Computer Science Masters student and part of my degree involves me downloading Debian on my Mac. I have tried this countless times and I have been unsuccessful. I've watched Youtube videos/ read the information on your website and I am still unable to do this.
> 
> 
>     Is this something you could please help me with? I would be so grateful.
> 
> 
>     Courtney
> 

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#241497

Hi Courtney,
latest Mac are not well, if not at all, supported by Linux.
You may try to install Debian on a PC (or an old supported mac) instead.
hth,
Jerome

On 19/10/2021 13:11, courtneyxshort wrote:
> Hello,
> 
> 
> I am a Computer Science Masters student and part of my degree involves me downloading Debian on my Mac. I have tried this countless times and I have been unsuccessful. I've watched Youtube videos/ read the information on your website and I am still unable to do this.
> 
> 
> Is this something you could please help me with? I would be so grateful.
> 
> 
> Courtney
> 

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#241500

courtneyxshort wrote: 
> 
> I am a Computer Science Masters student and part of my degree involves me
> downloading Debian on my Mac. I have tried this countless times and I have
> been unsuccessful.  I've watched Youtube videos/ read the information on
> your website and I am still unable to do this.
> 
> Is this something you could please help me with? I would be so grateful.


Debian is an operating system, not an application. It wants to
run your computer the same way that MacOS does.

Assuming that you want to keep running MacOS day-to-day, your
best bet is to install Debian in a virtual machine.

You can use the netinst image to install Debian into a VM:
https://cdimage.debian.org/debian-cd/current/amd64/iso-cd/debian-11.1.0-amd64-netinst.iso

or you can get a live VM image from

https://cloud.debian.org/images/cloud/bullseye/20211011-792/

and run under any of the following virtualization systems:

Parallels
VirtualBox
VMWare
and the free QEMU:
https://wiki.qemu.org/Hosts/Mac

In either case, you should read through

https://www.debian.org/releases/stable/amd64/

Note that if you have a very recent Mac -- one with an M1 CPU --
support is going to be more limited.

It might be to your advantage to just pay ($5-$10/month) for a VM in the cloud;
talk to your instructors.

It is also likely that your university has resources to offer
here.


-dsr-

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#241502

Hi,

courtneyxshort wrote:
> I am a Computer Science Masters student and part of my degree involves me
> downloading Debian on my Mac.

In normal times i would advise you to seek contact to local Linux users
at your university or school.

Nomenclature:
I guess you are supposed to "install" a Debian GNU/Linux operating
system. "Downloading" an installation disk-or-filesystem image is one of
the early steps of installing.

The general procedure is:

- Get a machine where the existing operating system shall be overwritten.
  In your case i would propose to create a virtual machine on your Mac,
  if this is acceptable to your teachers.
  (There is the possibility to add an operating system as neighbor of
   the existing ones. But such coexistence as boot alternatives can be
   tricky.)

- Identify the Debian architecture which would match your machine.
  This is mainly about the CPU type. Most popular is "amd64" for 64 bit
  x86 CPUs, which should match a Mac that is not too old (PowerPC) or
  too young (M1).
  So if you use a virtual machine, let it emulate 64 bit x86.

- Download the matching installation medium. Given that you use a Mac
  i propose you offer it an ISO with all non-free firmware that you can
  get from Debian:
    https://cdimage.debian.org/cdimage/unofficial/non-free/cd-including-firmware/11.1.0+nonfree/amd64/iso-dvd/firmware-11.1.0-amd64-DVD-1.iso
  (With a virtual machine it might be feasible to use purely free
    https://cdimage.debian.org/cdimage/release/current/amd64/iso-dvd/debian-11.1.0-amd64-DVD-1.iso
  )

- Offer the downloaded .iso image file to your virtual machine either as
  virtual CD-ROM or as virtual hard disk.
  If you install on a real machine, burn the .iso onto a DVD
    https://www.debian.org/CD/faq/#record-mac
  or copy it flatly onto a USB stick
    https://www.debian.org/CD/faq/#write-usb

- When the machine starts up, check for the offer to boot from that
  virtual or real medium. (I have no experience with the firmware of
  Macs. You will have to find out yourself.)

- When you have managed to start the Debian installer system from the
  medium, it will offer you the option to install Debian on the virtual
  or real hard disk of the machine.

If you get that far and have questions, then ask here for more info.
If you get stuck at some step, provide more info about your Mac and
ask here. (I guess MacOS can list you the hardware components of your
machine somehow.)


If you ask again, better subscribe to the list at
  https://lists.debian.org/debian-user/
Some answers to your mail will only go to the list and not to your
mail address directly. (I conclude that you are not subscribed from
the "X-Spam-Status:" header, which the list server added to your mail
before sending it out to all subscribers.)

Alternatively you may watch the follow-ups of your message
  https://lists.debian.org/debian-user/2021/10/msg00799.html
and their follow-ups, or look for the thread "Debian courtneyxshort" at
  https://lists.debian.org/debian-user/2021/10/thrd2.html


Have a nice day :)

Thomas

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#241514

On Tue, Oct 19, 2021 at 12:11:56PM +0100, courtneyxshort wrote:
> 
> Hello,
> 
> I am a Computer Science Masters student and part of my degree involves me
> downloading Debian on my Mac. I have tried this countless times and I have
> been unsuccessful.  I've watched Youtube videos/ read the information on
> your website and I am still unable to do this.
> 
> Is this something you could please help me with? I would be so grateful.
> 
> Courtney

Hi Courtney,

If you mean downloading the Debian install media - that's one thing.

If you mean installing Debian so as to dual boot natively into Debian/MacOS - 
that's something different and a fair bit harder. It will also only
work on a Mac which has Intel chips inside - not the later ARM M1 Macs.

If you mean installing Debian into a virtual machine under MacOS: that's 
another thing again. You might well need a commercial program - 
Parallels / VMWare Fusion or whatever.

With every good wish, as ever,

Andy Cater

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