Groups | Search | Server Info | Keyboard shortcuts | Login | Register [http] [https] [nntp] [nntps]

Groups > linux.debian.user > #241320 > unrolled thread

general broad question for help in setting up linux server and suggestions

Back to article view | Back to linux.debian.user

Contents

  general broad question for help in setting up linux server and suggestions Semih Ozlem <semihozlemlinuxuser@gmail.com> - 2021-10-15 08:40 +0200
    Re: general broad question for help in setting up linux server and  suggestions Jeremy Ardley <jeremy@ardley.org> - 2021-10-15 08:50 +0200
      Re: general broad question for help in setting up linux server and  suggestions john doe <johndoe65534@mail.com> - 2021-10-15 09:50 +0200
        Re: general broad question for help in setting up linux server and suggestions Semih Ozlem <semihozlemlinuxuser@gmail.com> - 2021-10-15 10:20 +0200
          Re: general broad question for help in setting up linux server and  suggestions Christian Britz <cbritz@t-online.de> - 2021-10-15 10:40 +0200
            Re: general broad question for help in setting up linux server and  suggestions john doe <johndoe65534@mail.com> - 2021-10-15 13:50 +0200
              Re: general broad question for help in setting up linux server and  suggestions Dan Ritter <dsr@randomstring.org> - 2021-10-15 16:10 +0200
                Re: general broad question for help in setting up linux server and suggestions rhkramer@gmail.com - 2021-10-15 21:10 +0200
            Re: general broad question for help in setting up linux server and  suggestions john doe <johndoe65534@mail.com> - 2021-10-15 13:50 +0200
            Re: general broad question for help in setting up linux server and suggestions Cindy Sue Causey <butterflybytes@gmail.com> - 2021-10-15 20:20 +0200
          Re: general broad question for help in setting up linux server and  suggestions Jeremy Ardley <jeremy@ardley.org> - 2021-10-15 10:40 +0200
    Re: general broad question for help in setting up linux server and suggestions Nicholas Geovanis <nickgeovanis@gmail.com> - 2021-10-15 14:00 +0200
    Re: general broad question for help in setting up linux server and  suggestions Miles Fidelman <mfidelman@meetinghouse.net> - 2021-10-15 19:00 +0200
      Re: general broad question for help in setting up linux server and  suggestions Jonathan Dowland <jon+debian-user@dow.land> - 2021-10-15 20:40 +0200
        Re: general broad question for help in setting up linux server and  suggestions Greg Wooledge <greg@wooledge.org> - 2021-10-15 21:20 +0200
        Re: general broad question for help in setting up linux server and  suggestions Dan Ritter <dsr@randomstring.org> - 2021-10-15 21:40 +0200
    Re: general broad question for help in setting up linux server and  suggestions Charles Curley <charlescurley@charlescurley.com> - 2021-10-15 19:10 +0200
    Re: general broad question for help in setting up linux server and  suggestions David Christensen <dpchrist@holgerdanske.com> - 2021-10-16 03:20 +0200
      Re: general broad question for help in setting up linux server and  suggestions "Andrew M.A. Cater" <amacater@einval.com> - 2021-10-16 14:40 +0200

#241320 — general broad question for help in setting up linux server and suggestions

[Multipart message — attachments visible in raw view] — view raw

Hello everyone

I am a mathematics PhD student completing my dissertation at Yeditepe
University Istanbul working under Prof Ilhan Ikeda who is at Bosphorus
University Istanbul. I am involved in setting up some seminars, keeping
correspondence with other mathematicians or mathematics students.

I worked for brief periods as a programmer mainly in python on small
projects.

Currently I am working with an electrical technician in Bursa Turkey who is
running an electrical electronical services store.

I am also interested in educational projects.

I am very much into using linux for academic work, I am willing to
introduce other people to linux and possibly set up a local linux users
group where I live.

I am thinking of setting up a server, both for local (at home use), (I have
already set up say samba server or openssh server) to be used only under
one modem. However due to lack of machines dedicated for that purpose the
server is not continuing.

I would like to make a server I set up say at home available at the
workplace as well so that I don't have to run back home while at work. If
possible make the server accessible via a smart phone or some other
computer.

Also in future possibly I would like to set up a web server possibly for
the shop and or for mathematical educational and linux related activities
as well as for myself and friends and maybe local community.

Already gdrive offers opportunities for storing files etc. and wix and some
other sites allow you to build websites and I am sure there are many other
options out there coming from the cloud. But I would like to explore, if
you guys also thinnk it might be a worthwhile endeavor too and worth the
time, to use linux LAMP server or any other option under the linux umbrella
that might be worthwhile. I am thinking of starting small scale since I am
operating on a really tight budget currently. And should I reach better
circumstances whether through finding some potential financial support or
better income myself, I would like to expand on number of things I try.

I am also in interested in humanitarian causes potentially though I would
not call myself very active or an activist I like reading on such issues
and discussing. One potential possibility is to develop projects in
relation to say immigration crisis to do with syria or any other cause...
even to help assist people in say getting help with reaching or finding out
about public services. But at the moment all these are ideas. Nothing
definite yet. I am exploring.

I would like to ask for suggestions like a roadmap that may be worthwhile
to follow.

Thank you in advance for any assistance and ideas and suggestions and
recommendations.

Sincerely

Semih Ozlem

[toc] | [next] | [standalone]

#241321 — Re: general broad question for help in setting up linux server and suggestions

[Multipart message — attachments visible in raw view] — view raw

On 15/10/21 2:33 pm, Semih Ozlem wrote:
> Hello everyone
>
> I am a mathematics PhD student completing my dissertation at Yeditepe 
> University Istanbul working under Prof Ilhan Ikeda who is at Bosphorus 
> University Istanbul. I am involved in setting up some seminars, 
> keeping correspondence with other mathematicians or mathematics students.
>
> I worked for brief periods as a programmer mainly in python on small 
> projects.
>
> Currently I am working with an electrical technician in Bursa Turkey 
> who is running an electrical electronical services store.
>
> I am also interested in educational projects.
>
> I am very much into using linux for academic work, I am willing to 
> introduce other people to linux and possibly set up a local linux 
> users group where I live.
>
> I am thinking of setting up a server, both for local (at home use), (I 
> have already set up say samba server or openssh server) to be used 
> only under one modem. However due to lack of machines dedicated for 
> that purpose the server is not continuing.
>
> I would like to make a server I set up say at home available at the 
> workplace as well so that I don't have to run back home while at work. 
> If possible make the server accessible via a smart phone or some other 
> computer.
>
> Also in future possibly I would like to set up a web server possibly 
> for the shop and or for mathematical educational and linux related 
> activities as well as for myself and friends and maybe local community.
>
> Already gdrive offers opportunities for storing files etc. and wix and 
> some other sites allow you to build websites and I am sure there are 
> many other options out there coming from the cloud. But I would like 
> to explore, if you guys also thinnk it might be a worthwhile endeavor 
> too and worth the time, to use linux LAMP server or any other option 
> under the linux umbrella that might be worthwhile. I am thinking of 
> starting small scale since I am operating on a really tight budget 
> currently. And should I reach better circumstances whether through 
> finding some potential financial support or better income myself, I 
> would like to expand on number of things I try.
>
> I am also in interested in humanitarian causes potentially though I 
> would not call myself very active or an activist I like reading on 
> such issues and discussing. One potential possibility is to develop 
> projects in relation to say immigration crisis to do with syria or any 
> other cause... even to help assist people in say getting help with 
> reaching or finding out about public services. But at the moment all 
> these are ideas. Nothing definite yet. I am exploring.
>
> I would like to ask for suggestions like a roadmap that may be 
> worthwhile to follow.
>
> Thank you in advance for any assistance and ideas and suggestions and 
> recommendations.
>
> Sincerely
>
> Semih Ozlem

If you want to smart small and cheap, you can get quite a decent LAMP 
server using a nanopi M4V2 which has gigabit+ connectivity and can fit 
an NVME drive for excellent speed and storage.

http://wiki.friendlyarm.com/wiki/index.php/NanoPi_M4V2

It has better connectivity and storage than the Raspberry Pi 4

Because heat is a problem you should get the fancy metal case

I run an earlier version of the board under armbian


-- 
Jeremy

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#241323 — Re: general broad question for help in setting up linux server and suggestions

On 10/15/2021 8:47 AM, Jeremy Ardley wrote:
>
> On 15/10/21 2:33 pm, Semih Ozlem wrote:
>> Hello everyone
>>
>> I am a mathematics PhD student completing my dissertation at Yeditepe
>> University Istanbul working under Prof Ilhan Ikeda who is at Bosphorus
>> University Istanbul. I am involved in setting up some seminars,
>> keeping correspondence with other mathematicians or mathematics students.
>>
>> I worked for brief periods as a programmer mainly in python on small
>> projects.
>>
>> Currently I am working with an electrical technician in Bursa Turkey
>> who is running an electrical electronical services store.
>>
>> I am also interested in educational projects.
>>
>> I am very much into using linux for academic work, I am willing to
>> introduce other people to linux and possibly set up a local linux
>> users group where I live.
>>
>> I am thinking of setting up a server, both for local (at home use), (I
>> have already set up say samba server or openssh server) to be used
>> only under one modem. However due to lack of machines dedicated for
>> that purpose the server is not continuing.
>>
>> I would like to make a server I set up say at home available at the
>> workplace as well so that I don't have to run back home while at work.
>> If possible make the server accessible via a smart phone or some other
>> computer.
>>
>> Also in future possibly I would like to set up a web server possibly
>> for the shop and or for mathematical educational and linux related
>> activities as well as for myself and friends and maybe local community.
>>
>> Already gdrive offers opportunities for storing files etc. and wix and
>> some other sites allow you to build websites and I am sure there are
>> many other options out there coming from the cloud. But I would like
>> to explore, if you guys also thinnk it might be a worthwhile endeavor
>> too and worth the time, to use linux LAMP server or any other option
>> under the linux umbrella that might be worthwhile. I am thinking of
>> starting small scale since I am operating on a really tight budget
>> currently. And should I reach better circumstances whether through
>> finding some potential financial support or better income myself, I
>> would like to expand on number of things I try.
>>
>> I am also in interested in humanitarian causes potentially though I
>> would not call myself very active or an activist I like reading on
>> such issues and discussing. One potential possibility is to develop
>> projects in relation to say immigration crisis to do with syria or any
>> other cause... even to help assist people in say getting help with
>> reaching or finding out about public services. But at the moment all
>> these are ideas. Nothing definite yet. I am exploring.
>>
>> I would like to ask for suggestions like a roadmap that may be
>> worthwhile to follow.
>>
>> Thank you in advance for any assistance and ideas and suggestions and
>> recommendations.
>>
>> Sincerely
>>
>> Semih Ozlem
>
> If you want to smart small and cheap, you can get quite a decent LAMP
> server using a nanopi M4V2 which has gigabit+ connectivity and can fit
> an NVME drive for excellent speed and storage.
>
> http://wiki.friendlyarm.com/wiki/index.php/NanoPi_M4V2
>
> It has better connectivity and storage than the Raspberry Pi 4
>
> Because heat is a problem you should get the fancy metal case
>
> I run an earlier version of the board under armbian
>
>

To get me started and with no mony for this  I repurpose a desktop
computer that I had/found as a server.
The server was simply Debian in headless mode (no DE ...).

HTH.

--
John Doe

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#241326

[Multipart message — attachments visible in raw view] — view raw

How much does it cost to run a server full time, is it cheaper to run one
yourself or to rent one online? Do you have an estimate? or range? (cost
could be electricity and internet connection used?)

john doe <johndoe65534@mail.com>, 15 Eki 2021 Cum, 10:40 tarihinde şunu
yazdı:

> On 10/15/2021 8:47 AM, Jeremy Ardley wrote:
> >
> > On 15/10/21 2:33 pm, Semih Ozlem wrote:
> >> Hello everyone
> >>
> >> I am a mathematics PhD student completing my dissertation at Yeditepe
> >> University Istanbul working under Prof Ilhan Ikeda who is at Bosphorus
> >> University Istanbul. I am involved in setting up some seminars,
> >> keeping correspondence with other mathematicians or mathematics
> students.
> >>
> >> I worked for brief periods as a programmer mainly in python on small
> >> projects.
> >>
> >> Currently I am working with an electrical technician in Bursa Turkey
> >> who is running an electrical electronical services store.
> >>
> >> I am also interested in educational projects.
> >>
> >> I am very much into using linux for academic work, I am willing to
> >> introduce other people to linux and possibly set up a local linux
> >> users group where I live.
> >>
> >> I am thinking of setting up a server, both for local (at home use), (I
> >> have already set up say samba server or openssh server) to be used
> >> only under one modem. However due to lack of machines dedicated for
> >> that purpose the server is not continuing.
> >>
> >> I would like to make a server I set up say at home available at the
> >> workplace as well so that I don't have to run back home while at work.
> >> If possible make the server accessible via a smart phone or some other
> >> computer.
> >>
> >> Also in future possibly I would like to set up a web server possibly
> >> for the shop and or for mathematical educational and linux related
> >> activities as well as for myself and friends and maybe local community.
> >>
> >> Already gdrive offers opportunities for storing files etc. and wix and
> >> some other sites allow you to build websites and I am sure there are
> >> many other options out there coming from the cloud. But I would like
> >> to explore, if you guys also thinnk it might be a worthwhile endeavor
> >> too and worth the time, to use linux LAMP server or any other option
> >> under the linux umbrella that might be worthwhile. I am thinking of
> >> starting small scale since I am operating on a really tight budget
> >> currently. And should I reach better circumstances whether through
> >> finding some potential financial support or better income myself, I
> >> would like to expand on number of things I try.
> >>
> >> I am also in interested in humanitarian causes potentially though I
> >> would not call myself very active or an activist I like reading on
> >> such issues and discussing. One potential possibility is to develop
> >> projects in relation to say immigration crisis to do with syria or any
> >> other cause... even to help assist people in say getting help with
> >> reaching or finding out about public services. But at the moment all
> >> these are ideas. Nothing definite yet. I am exploring.
> >>
> >> I would like to ask for suggestions like a roadmap that may be
> >> worthwhile to follow.
> >>
> >> Thank you in advance for any assistance and ideas and suggestions and
> >> recommendations.
> >>
> >> Sincerely
> >>
> >> Semih Ozlem
> >
> > If you want to smart small and cheap, you can get quite a decent LAMP
> > server using a nanopi M4V2 which has gigabit+ connectivity and can fit
> > an NVME drive for excellent speed and storage.
> >
> > http://wiki.friendlyarm.com/wiki/index.php/NanoPi_M4V2
> >
> > It has better connectivity and storage than the Raspberry Pi 4
> >
> > Because heat is a problem you should get the fancy metal case
> >
> > I run an earlier version of the board under armbian
> >
> >
>
> To get me started and with no mony for this  I repurpose a desktop
> computer that I had/found as a server.
> The server was simply Debian in headless mode (no DE ...).
>
> HTH.
>
> --
> John Doe
>
>

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#241328 — Re: general broad question for help in setting up linux server and suggestions

Semih Ozlem wrote:
> How much does it cost to run a server full time, is it cheaper to run 
> one yourself or to rent one online? Do you have an estimate? or range? 
> (cost could be electricity and internet connection used?)
>

Assuming that you want to use your private Internet connection at the 
beginning and you have a flatrate, there will be only the electricity 
causing extra costs.
Keep in mind that your local Internet provider will probably not assign 
you a fixed IP adress, so you will probably need to use some sort of 
DynDNS service (should be cheap).
When your project becomes more professional, I would recommend switching 
to a hosted solution.

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#241337 — Re: general broad question for help in setting up linux server and suggestions

On 10/15/2021 1:40 PM, john doe wrote:
> On 10/15/2021 10:30 AM, Christian Britz wrote:
>>
>>
>> Semih Ozlem wrote:
>>> How much does it cost to run a server full time, is it cheaper to run
>>> one yourself or to rent one online? Do you have an estimate? or range?
>>> (cost could be electricity and internet connection used?)
>>>
>>
>> Assuming that you want to use your private Internet connection at the
>> beginning and you have a flatrate, there will be only the electricity
>> causing extra costs.
>> Keep in mind that your local Internet provider will probably not assign
>> you a fixed IP adress, so you will probably need to use some sort of
>> DynDNS service (should be cheap).
>
> For starter you could use a free DDNS provider.
>
> To answer the question of the OP:
>
> To learn how to run a server your only cost would be energy bill and
> mayby internet depending on your ISP plan.
>

I'll add that running a server at home as some security implecation.
The server would need to be properly secured (firewall, hardening of
services...).

In general, I would not advise to have a web server publically available
at home.

--
John Doe

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#241345 — Re: general broad question for help in setting up linux server and suggestions

john doe wrote: 
> On 10/15/2021 1:40 PM, john doe wrote:
> 
> I'll add that running a server at home as some security implecation.
> The server would need to be properly secured (firewall, hardening of
> services...).
> 
> In general, I would not advise to have a web server publically available
> at home.

I strongly disagree.

The best place to learn to run a web server is at home.
Preferably with a good, tested backup solution and no sensitive
data on the same machine.

The entire point of UNIX and UNIX-like systems is that at any
moment, a user may suddenly become a programmer or a sysadmin,
and this is fully supported behavior.

-dsr-

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#241352

On Friday, October 15, 2021 09:50:26 AM Dan Ritter wrote:
> john doe wrote:
> > On 10/15/2021 1:40 PM, john doe wrote:
> > In general, I would not advise to have a web server publically available
> > at home.
> 
> I strongly disagree.

I agree with Dan (on the strongly disagree).

Further, I would mention that the way some people used to do this was to have 
sort of two levels of firewall protection.  They had strong firewall (or 
similar) protection for their personal computer / network, and then the server 
(for public use) sat outside that firewall, possibly with a less restrictive 
firewall in front of it.

I vaguely think I remember a phrase like "demilitarized zone" for (iirc) the 
area outside your personal computer / network.

I never did this.  For a little while, a long time ago, I ran a server just 
for my home network (with no public access).

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#241338 — Re: general broad question for help in setting up linux server and suggestions

On 10/15/2021 10:30 AM, Christian Britz wrote:
>
>
> Semih Ozlem wrote:
>> How much does it cost to run a server full time, is it cheaper to run
>> one yourself or to rent one online? Do you have an estimate? or range?
>> (cost could be electricity and internet connection used?)
>>
>
> Assuming that you want to use your private Internet connection at the
> beginning and you have a flatrate, there will be only the electricity
> causing extra costs.
> Keep in mind that your local Internet provider will probably not assign
> you a fixed IP adress, so you will probably need to use some sort of
> DynDNS service (should be cheap).

For starter you could use a free DDNS provider.

To answer the question of the OP:

To learn how to run a server your only cost would be energy bill and
mayby internet depending on your ISP plan.

--
John Doe

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#241350

On 10/15/21, Christian Britz <cbritz@t-online.de> wrote:
>
> Semih Ozlem wrote:
>> How much does it cost to run a server full time, is it cheaper to run
>> one yourself or to rent one online? Do you have an estimate? or range?
>> (cost could be electricity and internet connection used?)
>>
>
> Assuming that you want to use your private Internet connection at the
> beginning and you have a flatrate, there will be only the electricity
> causing extra costs.
> Keep in mind that your local Internet provider will probably not assign
> you a fixed IP adress, so you will probably need to use some sort of
> DynDNS service (should be cheap).
> When your project becomes more professional, I would recommend switching
> to a hosted solution.


Which reminds that you have to make sure that hosting a personal
server doesn't violate terms of service from one's ISP (Internet
service provider). It depends on the type of connection, that kind of
thing. It would byte to have to go scrambling for a new way to
continue an existing setup with established traffic if one is suddenly
shut down for unknowingly violating those terms.

Just thinking out loud.. and my apologies in advance if that subject
was already mentioned. :)

Cindy :)
-- 
Cindy-Sue Causey
Talking Rock, Pickens County, Georgia, USA
* runs with birdseed *

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#241329 — Re: general broad question for help in setting up linux server and suggestions

[Multipart message — attachments visible in raw view] — view raw

On 15/10/21 4:16 pm, Semih Ozlem wrote:
> How much does it cost to run a server full time, is it cheaper to run 
> one yourself or to rent one online? Do you have an estimate? or range? 
> (cost could be electricity and internet connection used?)
>
> john doe <johndoe65534@mail.com <mailto:johndoe65534@mail.com>>, 15 
> Eki 2021 Cum, 10:40 tarihinde şunu yazdı:
>
>     On 10/15/2021 8:47 AM, Jeremy Ardley wrote:
>     >
>     > On 15/10/21 2:33 pm, Semih Ozlem wrote:
>     >> Hello everyone
>     >>
>     >> I am a mathematics PhD student completing my dissertation at
>     Yeditepe
>     >> University Istanbul working under Prof Ilhan Ikeda who is at
>     Bosphorus
>     >> University Istanbul. I am involved in setting up some seminars,
>     >> keeping correspondence with other mathematicians or mathematics
>     students.
>     >>
>     >> I worked for brief periods as a programmer mainly in python on
>     small
>     >> projects.
>     >>
>     >> Currently I am working with an electrical technician in Bursa
>     Turkey
>     >> who is running an electrical electronical services store.
>     >>
>     >> I am also interested in educational projects.
>     >>
>     >> I am very much into using linux for academic work, I am willing to
>     >> introduce other people to linux and possibly set up a local linux
>     >> users group where I live.
>     >>
>     >> I am thinking of setting up a server, both for local (at home
>     use), (I
>     >> have already set up say samba server or openssh server) to be used
>     >> only under one modem. However due to lack of machines dedicated for
>     >> that purpose the server is not continuing.
>     >>
>     >> I would like to make a server I set up say at home available at the
>     >> workplace as well so that I don't have to run back home while
>     at work.
>     >> If possible make the server accessible via a smart phone or
>     some other
>     >> computer.
>     >>
>     >> Also in future possibly I would like to set up a web server
>     possibly
>     >> for the shop and or for mathematical educational and linux related
>     >> activities as well as for myself and friends and maybe local
>     community.
>     >>
>     >> Already gdrive offers opportunities for storing files etc. and
>     wix and
>     >> some other sites allow you to build websites and I am sure
>     there are
>     >> many other options out there coming from the cloud. But I would
>     like
>     >> to explore, if you guys also thinnk it might be a worthwhile
>     endeavor
>     >> too and worth the time, to use linux LAMP server or any other
>     option
>     >> under the linux umbrella that might be worthwhile. I am thinking of
>     >> starting small scale since I am operating on a really tight budget
>     >> currently. And should I reach better circumstances whether through
>     >> finding some potential financial support or better income myself, I
>     >> would like to expand on number of things I try.
>     >>
>     >> I am also in interested in humanitarian causes potentially though I
>     >> would not call myself very active or an activist I like reading on
>     >> such issues and discussing. One potential possibility is to develop
>     >> projects in relation to say immigration crisis to do with syria
>     or any
>     >> other cause... even to help assist people in say getting help with
>     >> reaching or finding out about public services. But at the
>     moment all
>     >> these are ideas. Nothing definite yet. I am exploring.
>     >>
>     >> I would like to ask for suggestions like a roadmap that may be
>     >> worthwhile to follow.
>     >>
>     >> Thank you in advance for any assistance and ideas and
>     suggestions and
>     >> recommendations.
>     >>
>     >> Sincerely
>     >>
>     >> Semih Ozlem
>     >
>     > If you want to smart small and cheap, you can get quite a decent
>     LAMP
>     > server using a nanopi M4V2 which has gigabit+ connectivity and
>     can fit
>     > an NVME drive for excellent speed and storage.
>     >
>     > http://wiki.friendlyarm.com/wiki/index.php/NanoPi_M4V2
>     <http://wiki.friendlyarm.com/wiki/index.php/NanoPi_M4V2>
>     >
>     > It has better connectivity and storage than the Raspberry Pi 4
>     >
>     > Because heat is a problem you should get the fancy metal case
>     >
>     > I run an earlier version of the board under armbian
>     >
>     >
>
>     To get me started and with no mony for this  I repurpose a desktop
>     computer that I had/found as a server.
>     The server was simply Debian in headless mode (no DE ...).
>
>     HTH.
>
>     --
>     John Doe
>

I also have an AWS ARM LAMP server that has probably better performance 
than my MV2. It costs me under USD $10 per month and has really good 
data speed maybe 5Gbps - my MV2 is limited by my internet connection to 
20 Mbps upload. The AWS server only has 2G RAM and 8G disk, but both can 
be expanded at nominal cost

-- 
Jeremy

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#241339

[Multipart message — attachments visible in raw view] — view raw

If you have internet connectivity and want to experiment, you can fire up
smaller Amazon AWS (cloud) instances for less than 1 day for no cost. You
can keep large data long term in their S3 storage buckets for nearly zero
cost. You can pay month to month.

I haven't been on Google cloud for 3 or 4 years. But they used to be
cheaper than AWS.

On Fri, Oct 15, 2021, 1:34 AM Semih Ozlem <semihozlemlinuxuser@gmail.com>
wrote:

> Hello everyone
>
> I am a mathematics PhD student completing my dissertation at Yeditepe
> University Istanbul working under Prof Ilhan Ikeda who is at Bosphorus
> University Istanbul. I am involved in setting up some seminars, keeping
> correspondence with other mathematicians or mathematics students.
>
> I worked for brief periods as a programmer mainly in python on small
> projects.
>
> Currently I am working with an electrical technician in Bursa Turkey who
> is running an electrical electronical services store.
>
> I am also interested in educational projects.
>
> I am very much into using linux for academic work, I am willing to
> introduce other people to linux and possibly set up a local linux users
> group where I live.
>
> I am thinking of setting up a server, both for local (at home use), (I
> have already set up say samba server or openssh server) to be used only
> under one modem. However due to lack of machines dedicated for that purpose
> the server is not continuing.
>
> I would like to make a server I set up say at home available at the
> workplace as well so that I don't have to run back home while at work. If
> possible make the server accessible via a smart phone or some other
> computer.
>
> Also in future possibly I would like to set up a web server possibly for
> the shop and or for mathematical educational and linux related activities
> as well as for myself and friends and maybe local community.
>
> Already gdrive offers opportunities for storing files etc. and wix and
> some other sites allow you to build websites and I am sure there are many
> other options out there coming from the cloud. But I would like to explore,
> if you guys also thinnk it might be a worthwhile endeavor too and worth the
> time, to use linux LAMP server or any other option under the linux umbrella
> that might be worthwhile. I am thinking of starting small scale since I am
> operating on a really tight budget currently. And should I reach better
> circumstances whether through finding some potential financial support or
> better income myself, I would like to expand on number of things I try.
>
> I am also in interested in humanitarian causes potentially though I would
> not call myself very active or an activist I like reading on such issues
> and discussing. One potential possibility is to develop projects in
> relation to say immigration crisis to do with syria or any other cause...
> even to help assist people in say getting help with reaching or finding out
> about public services. But at the moment all these are ideas. Nothing
> definite yet. I am exploring.
>
> I would like to ask for suggestions like a roadmap that may be worthwhile
> to follow.
>
> Thank you in advance for any assistance and ideas and suggestions and
> recommendations.
>
> Sincerely
>
> Semih Ozlem
>

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#241348 — Re: general broad question for help in setting up linux server and suggestions

Semih Ozlem wrote:
>
> I am thinking of setting up a server, both for local (at home use), (I 
> have already set up say samba server or openssh server) to be used 
> only under one modem. However due to lack of machines dedicated for 
> that purpose the server is not continuing.
>
> I would like to make a server I set up say at home available at the 
> workplace as well so that I don't have to run back home while at work. 
> If possible make the server accessible via a smart phone or some other 
> computer.
>
>
Two comments:

1.  If you want to make the server available, via the net, you need to 
look at something like Dynamic DNS.  Broadband services tend to 
periodically reassign your IP address.

2.  If you have any expectation of providing any services - even 
something as basic as hosting an email list, you can easily swamp a 
desktop/laptop class machine.  You probably want to look at something 
Xeon based.

Personally, I've been looking rather longingly at the Intel NUC 9 Pro - 
which provides a huge amount of capability in a mini-pc chassis.  
Basically, a workstation class mini-pc.  Of course, it's hard to get 
one's hands on them these days, and a well-loaded system will easily set 
you back $2-3000.  You can get some comparable, Supermicro mini-itx 
boxes for a bit less.

Miles Fidelman





-- 
In theory, there is no difference between theory and practice.
In practice, there is.  .... Yogi Berra

Theory is when you know everything but nothing works.
Practice is when everything works but no one knows why.
In our lab, theory and practice are combined:
nothing works and no one knows why.  ... unknown

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#241351 — Re: general broad question for help in setting up linux server and suggestions

On Fri, Oct 15, 2021 at 12:43:57PM -0400, Miles Fidelman wrote:
>2.  If you have any expectation of providing any services - even 
>something as basic as hosting an email list, you can easily swamp a 
>desktop/laptop class machine.  You probably want to look at something 
>Xeon based.

I have never, ever needed something Xeon based, and I've provided basic
services on low-spec VPSes for a very long time.

-- 
Please do not CC me for listmail.

👱🏻	Jonathan Dowland
✎	 jmtd@debian.org
🔗	https://jmtd.net

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#241354 — Re: general broad question for help in setting up linux server and suggestions

On Fri, Oct 15, 2021 at 07:39:28PM +0100, Jonathan Dowland wrote:
> On Fri, Oct 15, 2021 at 12:43:57PM -0400, Miles Fidelman wrote:
> > 2.  If you have any expectation of providing any services - even
> > something as basic as hosting an email list, you can easily swamp a
> > desktop/laptop class machine.  You probably want to look at something
> > Xeon based.
> 
> I have never, ever needed something Xeon based, and I've provided basic
> services on low-spec VPSes for a very long time.

Some of the statements in this thread have been quite exaggerated.
You can run a mailing list on a 486.  (I mean, you *could* back when
you could actually run Linux on a 486... no modern Linux kernels support
that old CPU any more.)

At its heart, a mailing list service is quite simple, and does not use
a lot of resources.  You need an MTA, of course, which is configured to
receive and send (and therefore queue up) email.  Then you just need a
mailing list program which is invoked when a designated address receives
a new email.  The typical action will be "queue up a bunch of outgoing
messages", and then the MTA sends them out.

It only needs a few megabytes of RAM, and not much CPU.  The bottleneck
on a mailing list service will be the time spent waiting on network I/O
while talking to other mail servers (and DNS) around the world.  Not local
memory or CPU.

Things only get complicated if you try to do spam detection.  Which, to
be fair, you probably would want if it's an open mailing list publicized
to the world.  If it's a private mailing list that you only maintain for
communications with your family or whatever, you probably don't need it.
Simply disallow incoming messages from non-subscribed addresses.

If you're "swamping" a modern desktop PC by running a small- to medium-sized
mailing list, you've probably done something very, very wrong.

A web server with static content is pretty light as well.  Obviously it
will depend on how many "clicks" you get per day, and what kind of content
you're offering (i.e. how big the pages are), but a small web server that
gets, let's say, a thousand hits per day (that's about one hit every minute)
will not even place a noticeable load on a modern desktop or laptop PC.

On a busier web server, the bottleneck will often be your upload speed,
especially if you have larger files (images, audio, video, large data
sets).  The amount of RAM and CPU used for static content is still quite
small, but you can easily max out a typical home Internet's upload speed.
I believe Gene has experienced this.

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#241356 — Re: general broad question for help in setting up linux server and suggestions

Jonathan Dowland wrote: 
> On Fri, Oct 15, 2021 at 12:43:57PM -0400, Miles Fidelman wrote:
> > 2.  If you have any expectation of providing any services - even
> > something as basic as hosting an email list, you can easily swamp a
> > desktop/laptop class machine.  You probably want to look at something
> > Xeon based.
> 
> I have never, ever needed something Xeon based, and I've provided basic
> services on low-spec VPSes for a very long time.

We ran thousand-person mailing lists on a microVAX 3500 with a
then-astonishing 32MB of RAM and an 11 MHz CPU.

A Raspberry Pi 4b has much more compute power, faster storage,
and 50-100x faster networking, to go with 200x the RAM.

For learning about running servers and doing non-commercial
work, Pis and old desktops and laptops are excellent machines.

-dsr-

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#241349 — Re: general broad question for help in setting up linux server and suggestions

On Fri, 15 Oct 2021 09:33:24 +0300
Semih Ozlem <semihozlemlinuxuser@gmail.com> wrote:

> I am very much into using linux for academic work, I am willing to
> introduce other people to linux and possibly set up a local linux
> users group where I live.

There may already be a Linux User Group (LUG) near you. If there is one
in Turkey, I would expect to find it in Istanbul or Ankara.

In general, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Linux_user_group
https://tldp.org/HOWTO/User-Group-HOWTO.html (TLDP material tends to be
behind the times, alas.)

> But I would like to explore, if
> you guys also thinnk it might be a worthwhile endeavor too and worth
> the time, to use linux LAMP server or any other option under the
> linux umbrella that might be worthwhile. I am thinking of starting
> small scale since I am operating on a really tight budget currently.

Running your own server is an excellent learning opportunity. There is
plenty of inexpensive hardware available, new and used. You might also
check with local universities or colleges for donations of hardware for
a good cause. Also, check for surplus sales at local companies,
universities, and colleges.

The other costs are your Internet connection, your electricity bill,
and your time maintaining it.

-- 
Does anybody read signatures any more?

https://charlescurley.com
https://charlescurley.com/blog/

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#241359 — Re: general broad question for help in setting up linux server and suggestions

On 10/14/21 23:33, Semih Ozlem wrote:
> Hello everyone
> 
> I am a mathematics PhD student completing my dissertation at
> Yeditepe University Istanbul working under Prof Ilhan Ikeda who is at
> Bosphorus University Istanbul. I am involved in setting up some
> seminars, keeping correspondence with other mathematicians or
> mathematics students.
> 
> I worked for brief periods as a programmer mainly in python on small 
> projects.
> 
> Currently I am working with an electrical technician in Bursa Turkey
> who is running an electrical electronical services store.
> 
> I am also interested in educational projects.
> 
> I am very much into using linux for academic work, I am willing to 
> introduce other people to linux and possibly set up a local linux
> users group where I live.
> 
> I am thinking of setting up a server, both for local (at home use),
> (I have already set up say samba server or openssh server) to be used
> only under one modem. However due to lack of machines dedicated for
> that purpose the server is not continuing.
> 
> I would like to make a server I set up say at home available at the 
> workplace as well so that I don't have to run back home while at
> work. If possible make the server accessible via a smart phone or
> some other computer.
> 
> Also in future possibly I would like to set up a web server possibly
> for the shop and or for mathematical educational and linux related
> activities as well as for myself and friends and maybe local
> community.
> 
> Already gdrive offers opportunities for storing files etc. and wix
> and some other sites allow you to build websites and I am sure there
> are many other options out there coming from the cloud. But I would
> like to explore, if you guys also thinnk it might be a worthwhile
> endeavor too and worth the time, to use linux LAMP server or any
> other option under the linux umbrella that might be worthwhile. I am
> thinking of starting small scale since I am operating on a really
> tight budget currently. And should I reach better circumstances
> whether through finding some potential financial support or better
> income myself, I would like to expand on number of things I try.
> 
> I am also in interested in humanitarian causes potentially though I
> would not call myself very active or an activist I like reading on
> such issues and discussing. One potential possibility is to develop
> projects in relation to say immigration crisis to do with syria or
> any other cause... even to help assist people in say getting help
> with reaching or finding out about public services. But at the moment
> all these are ideas. Nothing definite yet. I am exploring.
> 
> I would like to ask for suggestions like a roadmap that may be
> worthwhile to follow.
> 
> Thank you in advance for any assistance and ideas and suggestions
> and recommendations.
> 
> Sincerely
> 
> Semih Ozlem


On 10/15/21 01:16, Semih Ozlem wrote:
> How much does it cost to run a server full time, is it cheaper to run
> one yourself or to rent one online? Do you have an estimate? or
> range? (cost could be electricity and internet connection used?)


For your situation, I suggest that you get a 14" or 15" laptop with 
Windows 7 Pro 64-bit, a 4+ core CPU with virtualization support, 8+ GB 
of dual-channel memory, and a 256+ GB SSD.  Get a 1+ TB external SSD or 
HDD with the fastest connection the laptop supports, and put your data 
on it.  Install virtualization software and create Debian virtual 
machines (VM).  Get a backpack with a laptop compartment and carry it 
all around with you.


Note that you don't need a new or expensive laptop.  I have a Dell 
Latitude E6520 that was near top-of-the line in ~2011, but sells for 
US$150~200 today.  It is my primary workstation; I use it daily.  While 
older machines are bulkier and heavier, and the batteries do not last 
very long, they are easier to modify and upgrade than newer laptops. 
And, now that Microsoft has declared Windows 11 will not support 
machines prior to Intel Core 8th generation, the price of older x86 
computers has dropped even more.


It is not wise to host Internet services on a home server.  If and when 
you want an Internet presence, get a virtual private server (VPS). 
Prices range from free to very expensive, depending upon provider and plan.


I live in California, USA.  Graduate programs here typically require 
students to obtain a certain number of graduate-level courses in their 
department, plus some number of upper-division or graduate courses 
outside their department.  If your university has a computer science 
(CS) department, perhaps you could take CS courses and apply them 
towards your Ph.D..


David

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#241378 — Re: general broad question for help in setting up linux server and suggestions

On Fri, Oct 15, 2021 at 06:09:48PM -0700, David Christensen wrote:
> On 10/14/21 23:33, Semih Ozlem wrote:
> > Hello everyone
> > 
> > I am a mathematics PhD student completing my dissertation at
> > Yeditepe University Istanbul working under Prof Ilhan Ikeda who is at
> > Bosphorus University Istanbul. I am involved in setting up some
> > seminars, keeping correspondence with other mathematicians or
> > mathematics students.
> > 
> > I worked for brief periods as a programmer mainly in python on small
> > projects.
> > 
> > Currently I am working with an electrical technician in Bursa Turkey
> > who is running an electrical electronical services store.
> > 
> > I am also interested in educational projects.
> > 

It depends: these seem to be fairly well based on the Raspberry Pi. I don't
know what costs/exchange rates are like in Turkey.

> > I am very much into using linux for academic work, I am willing to
> > introduce other people to linux and possibly set up a local linux
> > users group where I live.

That may cost nothing: you may find that the university maths/computer
science faculties may have enough interested students to start.

> > 
> > I am thinking of setting up a server, both for local (at home use),
> > (I have already set up say samba server or openssh server) to be used
> > only under one modem. However due to lack of machines dedicated for
> > that purpose the server is not continuing.
> > 
> > I would like to make a server I set up say at home available at the
> > workplace as well so that I don't have to run back home while at
> > work. If possible make the server accessible via a smart phone or
> > some other computer.

Something like an OpenVPN connection - again, you might want to use
a Pi as a gateway - or just pay for a virtual private server at a hosting
company?

> > 
> > Also in future possibly I would like to set up a web server possibly
> > for the shop and or for mathematical educational and linux related
> > activities as well as for myself and friends and maybe local
> > community.

Ask the CS department - they may already have one :)

> > 
> > Already gdrive offers opportunities for storing files etc. and wix
> > and some other sites allow you to build websites and I am sure there
> > are many other options out there coming from the cloud. But I would
> > like to explore, if you guys also thinnk it might be a worthwhile
> > endeavor too and worth the time, to use linux LAMP server or any
> > other option under the linux umbrella that might be worthwhile. I am
> > thinking of starting small scale since I am operating on a really
> > tight budget currently. And should I reach better circumstances
> > whether through finding some potential financial support or better
> > income myself, I would like to expand on number of things I try.
> > 
> > I am also in interested in humanitarian causes potentially though I
> > would not call myself very active or an activist I like reading on
> > such issues and discussing. One potential possibility is to develop
> > projects in relation to say immigration crisis to do with syria or
> > any other cause... even to help assist people in say getting help
> > with reaching or finding out about public services. But at the moment
> > all these are ideas. Nothing definite yet. I am exploring.

Perhaps talk to the Debian-based FreedomBox project?
> > 
> > I would like to ask for suggestions like a roadmap that may be
> > worthwhile to follow.
> > 
> > Thank you in advance for any assistance and ideas and suggestions
> > and recommendations.
> > 
> > Sincerely
> > 
> > Semih Ozlem
> 
> 

Also - if you have no money, start small. You may even be able to pick
up a couple of dead desktop systems and build one good one / become
friends with your local compauter repair person. Something small to 
get your own experience up: as you build up experience, document each step
you take, configuration files etc. and share them / help others with problems: "a mind is a terrible
thing to waste" and if you can help other people, you often find that as you
explain things, your understanding deepens.**

** This is very much like discussing maths with a fellow student and helping
them: you can help them use their own mind to derive solutions - don't do 
everything for them and deprive them of knowledge and explanation but, 
similarly, don't do all their homework for them :) Similarly, it helps
to be systematic and lay out your working so that others can see how
you reached a conclusion.

All the best, as ever,

Andy Cater     

> On 10/15/21 01:16, Semih Ozlem wrote:
> > How much does it cost to run a server full time, is it cheaper to run
> > one yourself or to rent one online? Do you have an estimate? or
> > range? (cost could be electricity and internet connection used?)
> 
> 
> For your situation, I suggest that you get a 14" or 15" laptop with Windows
> 7 Pro 64-bit, a 4+ core CPU with virtualization support, 8+ GB of
> dual-channel memory, and a 256+ GB SSD.  Get a 1+ TB external SSD or HDD
> with the fastest connection the laptop supports, and put your data on it.
> Install virtualization software and create Debian virtual machines (VM).
> Get a backpack with a laptop compartment and carry it all around with you.
> 
> 
> Note that you don't need a new or expensive laptop.  I have a Dell Latitude
> E6520 that was near top-of-the line in ~2011, but sells for US$150~200
> today.  It is my primary workstation; I use it daily.  While older machines
> are bulkier and heavier, and the batteries do not last very long, they are
> easier to modify and upgrade than newer laptops. And, now that Microsoft has
> declared Windows 11 will not support machines prior to Intel Core 8th
> generation, the price of older x86 computers has dropped even more.
> 
> 
> It is not wise to host Internet services on a home server.  If and when you
> want an Internet presence, get a virtual private server (VPS). Prices range
> from free to very expensive, depending upon provider and plan.
> 
> 
> I live in California, USA.  Graduate programs here typically require
> students to obtain a certain number of graduate-level courses in their
> department, plus some number of upper-division or graduate courses outside
> their department.  If your university has a computer science (CS)
> department, perhaps you could take CS courses and apply them towards your
> Ph.D..
> 
> 
> David
> 

[toc] | [prev] | [standalone]

Back to top | Article view | linux.debian.user

csiph-web