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Then it happened to me...

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  Then it happened to me... Dan Ritter <dsr-looksjustlikedsrbutisitreally@randomstring.org> - 2021-10-08 19:30 +0200
    Re: Then it happened to me... Reco <recoverym4n@enotuniq.net> - 2021-10-10 09:20 +0200
    Re: Then it happened to me... piorunz <piorunz@gmx.com> - 2021-10-10 09:40 +0200
      Re: Then it happened to me... "Alexander V. Makartsev" <avbetev@gmail.com> - 2021-10-10 10:00 +0200
      Re: Then it happened to me... john doe <johndoe65534@mail.com> - 2021-10-10 10:20 +0200
      Re: Then it happened to me... Keith Bainbridge <keith.bainbridge.3216@gmail.com> - 2021-10-10 10:30 +0200
        Re: Then it happened to me... Brad Rogers <brad@fineby.me.uk> - 2021-10-10 13:40 +0200
      Re: Then it happened to me... Brad Rogers <brad@fineby.me.uk> - 2021-10-10 10:30 +0200
        Re: Then it happened to me... piorunz <piorunz@gmx.com> - 2021-10-10 10:50 +0200
          Re: Then it happened to me... Eike Lantzsch ZP6CGE <zp6cge@gmx.net> - 2021-10-10 11:40 +0200
            Re: Then it happened to me... Eric S Fraga <e.fraga@ucl.ac.uk> - 2021-10-10 18:40 +0200
          Re: Then it happened to me... Bret Busby <bret@busby.net> - 2021-10-10 12:30 +0200
            Re: Then it happened to me... The Wanderer <wanderer@fastmail.fm> - 2021-10-10 12:30 +0200
            Re: Then it happened to me... piorunz <piorunz@gmx.com> - 2021-10-10 12:50 +0200
              Re: Then it happened to me... Brad Rogers <brad@fineby.me.uk> - 2021-10-10 13:40 +0200
                Re: Then it happened to me... piorunz <piorunz@gmx.com> - 2021-10-10 13:40 +0200
                Re: Then it happened to me... Nicholas Geovanis <nickgeovanis@gmail.com> - 2021-10-11 00:00 +0200
                  Re: Then it happened to me... Eric S Fraga <e.fraga@ucl.ac.uk> - 2021-10-11 10:10 +0200
                    Re: Then it happened to me... Nicholas Geovanis <nickgeovanis@gmail.com> - 2021-10-12 01:20 +0200
          Re: Then it happened to me... Brad Rogers <brad@fineby.me.uk> - 2021-10-10 13:40 +0200
        Re: Then it happened to me... Richard Owlett <rowlett@cloud85.net> - 2021-10-10 11:10 +0200
          Re: Then it happened to me... piorunz <piorunz@gmx.com> - 2021-10-10 11:30 +0200
            Re: Then it happened to me... Reco <recoverym4n@enotuniq.net> - 2021-10-10 12:20 +0200
            Re: Then it happened to me... "Andrew M.A. Cater" <amacater@einval.com> - 2021-10-10 18:40 +0200
              Re: Then it happened to me... piorunz <piorunz@gmx.com> - 2021-10-10 19:50 +0200
                Re: Then it happened to me... Brian <ad44@cityscape.co.uk> - 2021-10-10 20:20 +0200
                  Re: Then it happened to me... piorunz <piorunz@gmx.com> - 2021-10-10 23:20 +0200
                    Re: Then it happened to me... Nate Bargmann <n0nb@n0nb.us> - 2021-10-10 23:30 +0200
                      Re: Then it happened to me... The Wanderer <wanderer@fastmail.fm> - 2021-10-10 23:40 +0200
                      Re: Then it happened to me... piorunz <piorunz@gmx.com> - 2021-10-10 23:40 +0200
                        Re: Then it happened to me... Andrei POPESCU <andreimpopescu@gmail.com> - 2021-10-11 09:50 +0200
                          Re: Then it happened to me... Brian <ad44@cityscape.co.uk> - 2021-10-11 14:40 +0200
                Re: Then it happened to me... Pierre-Elliott Bécue <peb@debian.org>> - 2021-10-10 21:10 +0200
                  Re: Then it happened to me... Bret Busby <bret@busby.net> - 2021-10-10 21:30 +0200
                  Re: Then it happened to me... Bret Busby <bret@busby.net> - 2021-10-10 21:50 +0200
      Re: Then it happened to me... Reco <recoverym4n@enotuniq.net> - 2021-10-10 13:00 +0200
        Re: Then it happened to me... Gene Heskett <gheskett@shentel.net> - 2021-10-10 14:50 +0200
          Re: Then it happened to me... Nate Bargmann <n0nb@n0nb.us> - 2021-10-10 18:30 +0200
            Re: Then it happened to me... Andrei POPESCU <andreimpopescu@gmail.com> - 2021-10-11 10:10 +0200
          Re: Then it happened to me... Andrei POPESCU <andreimpopescu@gmail.com> - 2021-10-11 10:10 +0200
    Re: Then it happened to me... piorunz <piorunz@gmx.com> - 2021-10-10 23:00 +0200
      Re: Then it happened to me... Andrei POPESCU <andreimpopescu@gmail.com> - 2021-10-11 10:10 +0200
        Re: Then it happened to me... David Wright <deblis@lionunicorn.co.uk> - 2021-10-12 00:10 +0200
          Re: Then it happened to me... Greg Wooledge <greg@wooledge.org> - 2021-10-12 00:20 +0200
            Re: Then it happened to me... Andy Smith <andy@strugglers.net> - 2021-10-12 01:10 +0200

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#241133

Now my turn. Just received a warning.

This is deeply broken.

"Dear subscriber,

We've encountered some problems while sending listmail to your
emailaddress piorunz@gmx.com.

In the last seven days we've seen bounces for the following list:
* debian-user
	1 bounce out of 68 mails in one day (1%, kick-score is 80%)
	(https://lists.debian.org/bounces/jIDIoxeNb9XRGvl0AsCQhQ)

(The link above points to a copy of the latest bounce and will be valid
for seven days.)

If the bounce-rate passes the kick-score, our bounce-detection will
forcibly remove your subscription."

--
With kindest regards, Piotr.

⢀⣴⠾⠻⢶⣦⠀
⣾⠁⢠⠒⠀⣿⡁ Debian - The universal operating system
⢿⡄⠘⠷⠚⠋⠀ https://www.debian.org
⠈⠳⣄⠀⠀⠀⠀

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#241152

[Multipart message — attachments visible in raw view] — view raw

On Du, 10 oct 21, 21:50:54, piorunz wrote:
> Now my turn. Just received a warning.
> 
> This is deeply broken.
> 
> "Dear subscriber,
> 
> We've encountered some problems while sending listmail to your
> emailaddress piorunz@gmx.com.
> 
> In the last seven days we've seen bounces for the following list:
> * debian-user
> 	1 bounce out of 68 mails in one day (1%, kick-score is 80%)
> 	(https://lists.debian.org/bounces/jIDIoxeNb9XRGvl0AsCQhQ)
> 
> (The link above points to a copy of the latest bounce and will be valid
> for seven days.)
> 
> If the bounce-rate passes the kick-score, our bounce-detection will
> forcibly remove your subscription."

That's probably unrelated, I get that too with GMX from time to time, 
although I tried my best to whitelist debian-user via the web interface.

Kind regards,
Andrei
-- 
http://wiki.debian.org/FAQsFromDebianUser

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#241214

On Mon 11 Oct 2021 at 10:52:22 (+0300), Andrei POPESCU wrote:
> On Du, 10 oct 21, 21:50:54, piorunz wrote:
> > Now my turn. Just received a warning.
> > 
> > This is deeply broken.
> > 
> > "Dear subscriber,
> > 
> > We've encountered some problems while sending listmail to your
> > emailaddress piorunz@gmx.com.
> > 
> > In the last seven days we've seen bounces for the following list:
> > * debian-user
> > 	1 bounce out of 68 mails in one day (1%, kick-score is 80%)
> > 	(https://lists.debian.org/bounces/jIDIoxeNb9XRGvl0AsCQhQ)
> > 
> > (The link above points to a copy of the latest bounce and will be valid
> > for seven days.)
> > 
> > If the bounce-rate passes the kick-score, our bounce-detection will
> > forcibly remove your subscription."
> 
> That's probably unrelated, I get that too with GMX from time to time, 
> although I tried my best to whitelist debian-user via the web interface.

It's not just probably unrelated. The gentle warning above bears no
relation to the abrupt message when you get forcibly unsubscribed.
I would assume that Piotr's bounce is for the ">>" post:
https://lists.debian.org/debian-user/2021/10/msg00429.html
which Thomas Schmitt reported, as they both use GMX. Looking at
the link provided: https://www.gmx.net/mail/senderguidelines
I don't think I would be able to subscribe and post through that
system, on several points.

Cheers,
David.

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#241216

I had an interesting one earlier.  Usually I get unsubscribed after one
of my own posts.  This time, I got unsubscribed after someone else's.

Here's the tail end of what I received from bendel:

>
><andreimpopescu@gmail.com>: Re: How exactly do I create a Debian live USB?
>On Lu, 11 oct 21, 21:20:25, kaye n wrote:
>> On Mon, Oct 11, 2021 at 8:41 PM Greg Wooledge <greg@wooledge.org> wrote:
>>
>> > O
>Please stop the message. we have already unsubscribed our email address.
>

As you can see, the address at the top of the body was not mine.  Mine
appears further down inside the body.  Still inside angle brackets.  I
suspect that's relevant to whatever bug bendel is suffering from.

And yeah, I'm definitely calling this a bug.  How can it be anything else?
It's parsing the BODIES of posts for email addresses in angle brackets,
and each address found is being treated as if it had generated a "bounce".

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#241219

Hello,

On Mon, Oct 11, 2021 at 06:18:27PM -0400, Greg Wooledge wrote:
> As you can see, the address at the top of the body was not mine.  Mine
> appears further down inside the body.  Still inside angle brackets.  I
> suspect that's relevant to whatever bug bendel is suffering from.
> 
> And yeah, I'm definitely calling this a bug.  How can it be anything else?
> It's parsing the BODIES of posts for email addresses in angle brackets,
> and each address found is being treated as if it had generated a "bounce".

Mailing list managers sometimes try very hard to work out if a message is a
bounce, because bounce messages have no standard format, so they do
sometimes end up treating things as bounces which aren't actually
bounces.

However, Debian's list manager uses Variable Envelope Return Path,
e.g. your mail as delivered to me used an envelope sender of
bounce-debian-user=andy=strugglers.net@lists.debian.org with my
subscribed address encoded within the local part. So it does know
that any email to
bounce-debian-user=andy=strugglers.net@lists.debian.org is a bounce
generated by a mail sent to me and doesn't have to try to parse any
of the body.

So I think you are correct that it's a bug, but in the
configuration, insofar as it's still willing to try to parse mails
that end up at debian-user@lists.debian.org. Nothing should be
bouncing mail there.

(Though note that in *this* thread we are/were discussing these GMX
bounces, which do go to the correct place, and are causing problems
only for recipients on GMX mail infrastructure.)

If you look at the nag email you got from bendel it showed that the
mail it processed was:

From: "Mail Delivery Subsystem" <postmaster@vps268904.ovh.net>
To: <debian-user@lists.debian.org>

I suspect that the list manager is trapping anything like "Mail
Delivery Subsystem" and/or postmaster@ to try to protect the list
from receiving a torrent of someone else's bounces.

I don't know how much unwanted email the list would get if this
behaviour were removed. Perhaps it would be best to just silently
discard such emails, since as I say nothing should be sending
bounces there.

An irritating point is that if the miscreant who's bouncing these
messages had chosen to send the bounce to the VERP address, they'd
already have unsubscribed themselves by now!

That's what I think is happening with these ovh bounces anyway!

Cheers,
Andy

-- 
https://bitfolk.com/ -- No-nonsense VPS hosting

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