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Then it happened to me...

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  Then it happened to me... Dan Ritter <dsr-looksjustlikedsrbutisitreally@randomstring.org> - 2021-10-08 19:30 +0200
    Re: Then it happened to me... Reco <recoverym4n@enotuniq.net> - 2021-10-10 09:20 +0200
    Re: Then it happened to me... piorunz <piorunz@gmx.com> - 2021-10-10 09:40 +0200
      Re: Then it happened to me... "Alexander V. Makartsev" <avbetev@gmail.com> - 2021-10-10 10:00 +0200
      Re: Then it happened to me... john doe <johndoe65534@mail.com> - 2021-10-10 10:20 +0200
      Re: Then it happened to me... Keith Bainbridge <keith.bainbridge.3216@gmail.com> - 2021-10-10 10:30 +0200
        Re: Then it happened to me... Brad Rogers <brad@fineby.me.uk> - 2021-10-10 13:40 +0200
      Re: Then it happened to me... Brad Rogers <brad@fineby.me.uk> - 2021-10-10 10:30 +0200
        Re: Then it happened to me... piorunz <piorunz@gmx.com> - 2021-10-10 10:50 +0200
          Re: Then it happened to me... Eike Lantzsch ZP6CGE <zp6cge@gmx.net> - 2021-10-10 11:40 +0200
            Re: Then it happened to me... Eric S Fraga <e.fraga@ucl.ac.uk> - 2021-10-10 18:40 +0200
          Re: Then it happened to me... Bret Busby <bret@busby.net> - 2021-10-10 12:30 +0200
            Re: Then it happened to me... The Wanderer <wanderer@fastmail.fm> - 2021-10-10 12:30 +0200
            Re: Then it happened to me... piorunz <piorunz@gmx.com> - 2021-10-10 12:50 +0200
              Re: Then it happened to me... Brad Rogers <brad@fineby.me.uk> - 2021-10-10 13:40 +0200
                Re: Then it happened to me... piorunz <piorunz@gmx.com> - 2021-10-10 13:40 +0200
                Re: Then it happened to me... Nicholas Geovanis <nickgeovanis@gmail.com> - 2021-10-11 00:00 +0200
                  Re: Then it happened to me... Eric S Fraga <e.fraga@ucl.ac.uk> - 2021-10-11 10:10 +0200
                    Re: Then it happened to me... Nicholas Geovanis <nickgeovanis@gmail.com> - 2021-10-12 01:20 +0200
          Re: Then it happened to me... Brad Rogers <brad@fineby.me.uk> - 2021-10-10 13:40 +0200
        Re: Then it happened to me... Richard Owlett <rowlett@cloud85.net> - 2021-10-10 11:10 +0200
          Re: Then it happened to me... piorunz <piorunz@gmx.com> - 2021-10-10 11:30 +0200
            Re: Then it happened to me... Reco <recoverym4n@enotuniq.net> - 2021-10-10 12:20 +0200
            Re: Then it happened to me... "Andrew M.A. Cater" <amacater@einval.com> - 2021-10-10 18:40 +0200
              Re: Then it happened to me... piorunz <piorunz@gmx.com> - 2021-10-10 19:50 +0200
                Re: Then it happened to me... Brian <ad44@cityscape.co.uk> - 2021-10-10 20:20 +0200
                  Re: Then it happened to me... piorunz <piorunz@gmx.com> - 2021-10-10 23:20 +0200
                    Re: Then it happened to me... Nate Bargmann <n0nb@n0nb.us> - 2021-10-10 23:30 +0200
                      Re: Then it happened to me... The Wanderer <wanderer@fastmail.fm> - 2021-10-10 23:40 +0200
                      Re: Then it happened to me... piorunz <piorunz@gmx.com> - 2021-10-10 23:40 +0200
                        Re: Then it happened to me... Andrei POPESCU <andreimpopescu@gmail.com> - 2021-10-11 09:50 +0200
                          Re: Then it happened to me... Brian <ad44@cityscape.co.uk> - 2021-10-11 14:40 +0200
                Re: Then it happened to me... Pierre-Elliott Bécue <peb@debian.org>> - 2021-10-10 21:10 +0200
                  Re: Then it happened to me... Bret Busby <bret@busby.net> - 2021-10-10 21:30 +0200
                  Re: Then it happened to me... Bret Busby <bret@busby.net> - 2021-10-10 21:50 +0200
      Re: Then it happened to me... Reco <recoverym4n@enotuniq.net> - 2021-10-10 13:00 +0200
        Re: Then it happened to me... Gene Heskett <gheskett@shentel.net> - 2021-10-10 14:50 +0200
          Re: Then it happened to me... Nate Bargmann <n0nb@n0nb.us> - 2021-10-10 18:30 +0200
            Re: Then it happened to me... Andrei POPESCU <andreimpopescu@gmail.com> - 2021-10-11 10:10 +0200
          Re: Then it happened to me... Andrei POPESCU <andreimpopescu@gmail.com> - 2021-10-11 10:10 +0200
    Re: Then it happened to me... piorunz <piorunz@gmx.com> - 2021-10-10 23:00 +0200
      Re: Then it happened to me... Andrei POPESCU <andreimpopescu@gmail.com> - 2021-10-11 10:10 +0200
        Re: Then it happened to me... David Wright <deblis@lionunicorn.co.uk> - 2021-10-12 00:10 +0200
          Re: Then it happened to me... Greg Wooledge <greg@wooledge.org> - 2021-10-12 00:20 +0200
            Re: Then it happened to me... Andy Smith <andy@strugglers.net> - 2021-10-12 01:10 +0200

Page 2 of 3 — ← Prev page 1 [2] 3  Next page →

#241073

On 10/10/2021 02:48 AM, Brad Rogers wrote:
> On Sun, 10 Oct 2021 08:33:03 +0100
> piorunz <piorunz@gmx.com> wrote:
> 
> Hello piorunz,
> 
>> Isn't it time to switch to online forums?
> 
> No.  'Newer' = 'better' is a false equivalency.
> 

+1

To paraphrase a local advertising jingle:
E-mail lists are not good because they are old, they are old because 
they work well.

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#241074

On 10/10/2021 10:08, Richard Owlett wrote:

>> No.  'Newer' = 'better' is a false equivalency.
>>
>
> +1
>
> To paraphrase a local advertising jingle:
> E-mail lists are not good because they are old, they are old because
> they work well.

Dozens of users being kicked out (unsubscribed) on daily basis is "work
well" for you?

--
With kindest regards, Piotr.

⢀⣴⠾⠻⢶⣦⠀
⣾⠁⢠⠒⠀⣿⡁ Debian - The universal operating system
⢿⡄⠘⠷⠚⠋⠀ https://www.debian.org
⠈⠳⣄⠀⠀⠀⠀

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#241079

	Hi.

On Sun, Oct 10, 2021 at 10:22:38AM +0100, piorunz wrote:
> On 10/10/2021 10:08, Richard Owlett wrote:
> 
> > > No.  'Newer' = 'better' is a false equivalency.
> > > 
> > 
> > +1
> > 
> > To paraphrase a local advertising jingle:
> > E-mail lists are not good because they are old, they are old because
> > they work well.
> 
> Dozens of users being kicked out (unsubscribed) on daily basis is "work
> well" for you?

A minor hiccup which will be dealt with.
Besides, begin unsubscribed does not prevent one from writing here.

Reco

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#241109

On Sun, Oct 10, 2021 at 10:22:38AM +0100, piorunz wrote:
> On 10/10/2021 10:08, Richard Owlett wrote:
> 
> > > No.  'Newer' = 'better' is a false equivalency.
> > > 
> > 
> > +1
> > 
> > To paraphrase a local advertising jingle:
> > E-mail lists are not good because they are old, they are old because
> > they work well.
> 
> Dozens of users being kicked out (unsubscribed) on daily basis is "work
> well" for you?
> 
> --
> With kindest regards, Piotr.
> 
> ⢀⣴⠾⠻⢶⣦⠀
> ⣾⠁⢠⠒⠀⣿⡁ Debian - The universal operating system
> ⢿⡄⠘⠷⠚⠋⠀ https://www.debian.org
> ⠈⠳⣄⠀⠀⠀⠀
> 

Hi Piotr,

No - it's a nuisance. In this instance, it's an isolated nuisance - one VPS host in OVH.net which may be misconfigured, accidentally
or purposefully. Listmasters are aware - several of us have contacted them. It's an annoyance (much as when old-style spammers used
to harvest email addresses to apparently send spam from): it will go away again.

Forums work for some people, they don't for others - people have very different styles. Email is fairly readily mirrored, very searchable,
compresses well and the mailing lists are threaded. I can find mailing list postings from 23 years ago fairly readily - I can't find
posts on some forums from three months ago. As ever: Your ideal solution may be  somebody else's hell (and vice versa) and people can argue 
merits either way until they're blue in the face with no absolute conclusion.

All the very best, as ever,

Andy Cater

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#241119

On 10/10/2021 17:13, Andrew M.A. Cater wrote:

> Hi Piotr,
>
> No - it's a nuisance. In this instance, it's an isolated nuisance - one VPS host in OVH.net which may be misconfigured, accidentally
> or purposefully. Listmasters are aware - several of us have contacted them. It's an annoyance (much as when old-style spammers used
> to harvest email addresses to apparently send spam from): it will go away again.
>
> Forums work for some people, they don't for others - people have very different styles. Email is fairly readily mirrored, very searchable,
> compresses well and the mailing lists are threaded. I can find mailing list postings from 23 years ago fairly readily - I can't find
> posts on some forums from three months ago. As ever: Your ideal solution may be  somebody else's hell (and vice versa) and people can argue
> merits either way until they're blue in the face with no absolute conclusion.

Thanks for your input. Your post has merit. I agree with most of what
you said.

I just wish Debian maintains online forums so people have a choice?
AFAIK https://forums.debian.net/ is not official, not long time ago they
didn't even had https. Now they do, but their main page debian.net still
incorrectly redirects to debian.org via http, not https. IDK who is the
operator but doesn't sound professional.

--
With kindest regards, Piotr.

⢀⣴⠾⠻⢶⣦⠀
⣾⠁⢠⠒⠀⣿⡁ Debian - The universal operating system
⢿⡄⠘⠷⠚⠋⠀ https://www.debian.org
⠈⠳⣄⠀⠀⠀⠀

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#241121

On Sun 10 Oct 2021 at 18:45:12 +0100, piorunz wrote:

[...]

> I just wish Debian maintains online forums so people have a choice?
> AFAIK https://forums.debian.net/ is not official, not long time ago they
> didn't even had https. Now they do, but their main page debian.net still
> incorrectly redirects to debian.org via http, not https. IDK who is the
> operator but doesn't sound professional.

Users may be interested in

  https://bits.debian.org/2021/08/debianuserforums.html

There are at least three people there to express concerns to.

-- 
Brian.

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#241135

On 10/10/2021 19:14, Brian wrote:
> On Sun 10 Oct 2021 at 18:45:12 +0100, piorunz wrote:
>
> [...]
>
>> I just wish Debian maintains online forums so people have a choice?
>> AFAIK https://forums.debian.net/ is not official, not long time ago they
>> didn't even had https. Now they do, but their main page debian.net still
>> incorrectly redirects to debian.org via http, not https. IDK who is the
>> operator but doesn't sound professional.
>
> Users may be interested in
>
>    https://bits.debian.org/2021/08/debianuserforums.html
>
> There are at least three people there to express concerns to.
>
Lol.... So Debian has "official" forum after all! As they say "The
server instance is now running directly within Debian's infrastructure."

So this posting from August has been announced NOWHERE on Debian, from
my perspective. I am subscribed to ALL relevant Debian e-mail lists:
debian-announce, debian-news, debian-release, debian-security,
debian-security announce, debian-stable announce, debian-user. And
NOTHING. Fact of forum re-launch under Debian umbrella and Debian
project care, is not worthy debian-announce or debian-news. What is
going on?

And it's not first time.. This is laughable to the point, where
debian-news has announced CLOSING of DebConf21 recently, but didn't
announced it's schedule and opening!!! So hundreds of users, including
me, has missed it, despite being subscribed to everything what I think
to be relevant to Debian, I still don't get full picture.
Debian really has a problem with marketing and coherence.

--
With kindest regards, Piotr.

⢀⣴⠾⠻⢶⣦⠀
⣾⠁⢠⠒⠀⣿⡁ Debian - The universal operating system
⢿⡄⠘⠷⠚⠋⠀ https://www.debian.org
⠈⠳⣄⠀⠀⠀⠀

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#241136

[Multipart message — attachments visible in raw view] — view raw

Years back there was an emailed newsletter titled Debian Weekly News.
At some point the author lost motivation as I recall and the newsletter
effectively ceased.  Keep in mind that Debian is an organization that
depends on volunteer effort to accomplish its goals.  I think you have
identified an area where you can help, i.e. the timely dissemination of
project news.

- Nate

-- 
"The optimist proclaims that we live in the best of all
possible worlds.  The pessimist fears this is true."
Web: https://www.n0nb.us
Projects: https://github.com/N0NB
GPG fingerprint: 82D6 4F6B 0E67 CD41 F689 BBA6 FB2C 5130 D55A 8819

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#241137

[Multipart message — attachments visible in raw view] — view raw

On 2021-10-10 at 17:27, Nate Bargmann wrote:

> Years back there was an emailed newsletter titled Debian Weekly
> News. At some point the author lost motivation as I recall and the
> newsletter effectively ceased.  Keep in mind that Debian is an
> organization that depends on volunteer effort to accomplish its
> goals.  I think you have identified an area where you can help, i.e.
> the timely dissemination of project news.

This actually still exists; it's just been renamed, to reflect the fact
that it wasn't being mailed out on a weekly basis anymore (partly
because of lack of available person-power for the purpose, partly I
think because there wasn't actually always enough news available to
report that often).

It's currently called "Debian Project News". According to my archives,
the first issue with that name was mailed out on April 21st, 2008 (after
a nine-month gap from the previous issue of Debian Weekly News, on July
3rd, 2007). The latest issue was mailed out on August 28th, announcing
the end of DebConf 21. There have been well over 200 issues mailed out
over the course of that period.

See

https://www.debian.org/News/

and in particular (linked to from there)

https://lists.debian.org/debian-news/

for what there is of this.

-- 
   The Wanderer

The reasonable man adapts himself to the world; the unreasonable one
persists in trying to adapt the world to himself. Therefore all
progress depends on the unreasonable man.         -- George Bernard Shaw

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#241138

On 10/10/2021 22:27, Nate Bargmann wrote:
> Years back there was an emailed newsletter titled Debian Weekly News.
> At some point the author lost motivation as I recall and the newsletter
> effectively ceased.

Oh that's sad

> Keep in mind that Debian is an organization that
> depends on volunteer effort to accomplish its goals.  I think you have
> identified an area where you can help, i.e. the timely dissemination of
> project news.

Yes I am aware of that, but I am curious why isn't any money spent on
that. To hire someone to spend two hours per week summarising news on
the list and post them? My English grammar is not that perfect to the
point where I can write to international audience, I a not a developer
either, so I wouldn't even understand everything what is going on.

That's why I do what I can - report bugs where I see them and send
donations to Debian every year. I'm just puzzled how many lists I have
subscribed to and I still miss all the news.

--
With kindest regards, Piotr.

⢀⣴⠾⠻⢶⣦⠀
⣾⠁⢠⠒⠀⣿⡁ Debian - The universal operating system
⢿⡄⠘⠷⠚⠋⠀ https://www.debian.org
⠈⠳⣄⠀⠀⠀⠀

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#241147

[Multipart message — attachments visible in raw view] — view raw

On Du, 10 oct 21, 22:33:15, piorunz wrote:
> On 10/10/2021 22:27, Nate Bargmann wrote:
> > Years back there was an emailed newsletter titled Debian Weekly News.
> > At some point the author lost motivation as I recall and the newsletter
> > effectively ceased.
> 
> Oh that's sad
> 
> > Keep in mind that Debian is an organization that
> > depends on volunteer effort to accomplish its goals.  I think you have
> > identified an area where you can help, i.e. the timely dissemination of
> > project news.
> 
> Yes I am aware of that, but I am curious why isn't any money spent on
> that. To hire someone to spend two hours per week summarising news on
> the list and post them?

Because there is a risk it will kill the motivation of volunteers.

> My English grammar is not that perfect to the
> point where I can write to international audience, I a not a developer
> either, so I wouldn't even understand everything what is going on.

Proof-reading should be done anyway, regardless of the writer, and 
having one's submissions taken apart and rewritten can be a good way to 
improve one's language and writing skills.

Kind regards,
Andrei
-- 
http://wiki.debian.org/FAQsFromDebianUser

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#241182

On Mon 11 Oct 2021 at 10:47:21 +0300, Andrei POPESCU wrote:

> On Du, 10 oct 21, 22:33:15, piorunz wrote:
> > On 10/10/2021 22:27, Nate Bargmann wrote:
> > > Years back there was an emailed newsletter titled Debian Weekly News.
> > > At some point the author lost motivation as I recall and the newsletter
> > > effectively ceased.
> > 
> > Oh that's sad
> > 
> > > Keep in mind that Debian is an organization that
> > > depends on volunteer effort to accomplish its goals.  I think you have
> > > identified an area where you can help, i.e. the timely dissemination of
> > > project news.
> > 
> > Yes I am aware of that, but I am curious why isn't any money spent on
> > that. To hire someone to spend two hours per week summarising news on
> > the list and post them?
> 
> Because there is a risk it will kill the motivation of volunteers.

As has happened in the past:

  https://lists.debian.org/debian-project/2006/10/msg00260.html

This occasioned (I think) Joey Schulze ceasing his involvement with
the Debian Weekly News.

-- 
Brian.

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#241124

[Multipart message — attachments visible in raw view] — view raw

piorunz <piorunz@gmx.com> wrote on 10/10/2021 at 19:45:12+0200:

> On 10/10/2021 17:13, Andrew M.A. Cater wrote:
>
>> Hi Piotr,
>>
>> No - it's a nuisance. In this instance, it's an isolated nuisance - one VPS host in OVH.net which may be misconfigured, accidentally
>> or purposefully. Listmasters are aware - several of us have contacted them. It's an annoyance (much as when old-style spammers used
>> to harvest email addresses to apparently send spam from): it will go away again.
>>
>> Forums work for some people, they don't for others - people have very different styles. Email is fairly readily mirrored, very searchable,
>> compresses well and the mailing lists are threaded. I can find mailing list postings from 23 years ago fairly readily - I can't find
>> posts on some forums from three months ago. As ever: Your ideal solution may be  somebody else's hell (and vice versa) and people can argue
>> merits either way until they're blue in the face with no absolute conclusion.
>
> Thanks for your input. Your post has merit. I agree with most of what
> you said.
>
> I just wish Debian maintains online forums so people have a choice?
> AFAIK https://forums.debian.net/ is not official, not long time ago they
> didn't even had https. Now they do, but their main page debian.net still
> incorrectly redirects to debian.org via http, not https. IDK who is the
> operator but doesn't sound professional.

Apart from needing people to maintain the service (and a dynamic website
requires someone, otherwise good luck to pass DSA's stamp), it would
probably split our community onto multiple media and make them probably
unable to talk in the long term.

I'm not sure it's a path we want to walk on.

Cheers,

--
PEB

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#241125

On 11/10/21 3:19 am, Bret Busby wrote:
> On 11/10/21 3:05 am, Pierre-Elliott Bécue wrote:
>>
>> piorunz <piorunz@gmx.com> wrote on 10/10/2021 at 19:45:12+0200:
>>
>>> On 10/10/2021 17:13, Andrew M.A. Cater wrote:
>>>
>>>> Hi Piotr,
>>>>
>>>> No - it's a nuisance. In this instance, it's an isolated nuisance - 
>>>> one VPS host in OVH.net which may be misconfigured, accidentally
>>>> or purposefully. Listmasters are aware - several of us have 
>>>> contacted them. It's an annoyance (much as when old-style spammers used
>>>> to harvest email addresses to apparently send spam from): it will go 
>>>> away again.
>>>>
>>>> Forums work for some people, they don't for others - people have 
>>>> very different styles. Email is fairly readily mirrored, very 
>>>> searchable,
>>>> compresses well and the mailing lists are threaded. I can find 
>>>> mailing list postings from 23 years ago fairly readily - I can't find
>>>> posts on some forums from three months ago. As ever: Your ideal 
>>>> solution may be  somebody else's hell (and vice versa) and people 
>>>> can argue
>>>> merits either way until they're blue in the face with no absolute 
>>>> conclusion.
>>>
>>> Thanks for your input. Your post has merit. I agree with most of what
>>> you said.
>>>
>>> I just wish Debian maintains online forums so people have a choice?
>>> AFAIK https://forums.debian.net/ is not official, not long time ago they
>>> didn't even had https. Now they do, but their main page debian.net still
>>> incorrectly redirects to debian.org via http, not https. IDK who is the
>>> operator but doesn't sound professional.
>>
>> Apart from needing people to maintain the service (and a dynamic website
>> requires someone, otherwise good luck to pass DSA's stamp), it would
>> probably split our community onto multiple media and make them probably
>> unable to talk in the long term.
>>
>> I'm not sure it's a path we want to walk on.
>>
>> Cheers,
>>
>> -- 
>> PEB
>>
> 
> Thank you for making that point.
> 
> It is an issue that I consider, whenever people on the mailing lists to 
> which I subscribe, say "let's switch to a forum.".
> 
> Mailing lists are universally accessible, regardless of the software 
> used, and, to split support communities, by imposing fora and such, is 
> simply divisive, and, apart from being divisive, can cause issues to be 
> raised separately, with the same solutions sought, and, needing to be 
> provided, in each applicable medium, leading to much (the multiple sense 
> of the word) duplication.
> 

I am completely unsure, but, it occurred to me, after sending the 
message above, that, perhaps, the multiple sense of the word 
duplication, may be multiplication, which, if that is correct, is not 
the usual usage of the word multiplication.

-- 
Bret Busby
Armadale
West Australia
(UTC+0800)
..............

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#241126

On 11/10/21 3:05 am, Pierre-Elliott Bécue wrote:
> 
> piorunz <piorunz@gmx.com> wrote on 10/10/2021 at 19:45:12+0200:
> 
>> On 10/10/2021 17:13, Andrew M.A. Cater wrote:
>>
>>> Hi Piotr,
>>>
>>> No - it's a nuisance. In this instance, it's an isolated nuisance - one VPS host in OVH.net which may be misconfigured, accidentally
>>> or purposefully. Listmasters are aware - several of us have contacted them. It's an annoyance (much as when old-style spammers used
>>> to harvest email addresses to apparently send spam from): it will go away again.
>>>
>>> Forums work for some people, they don't for others - people have very different styles. Email is fairly readily mirrored, very searchable,
>>> compresses well and the mailing lists are threaded. I can find mailing list postings from 23 years ago fairly readily - I can't find
>>> posts on some forums from three months ago. As ever: Your ideal solution may be  somebody else's hell (and vice versa) and people can argue
>>> merits either way until they're blue in the face with no absolute conclusion.
>>
>> Thanks for your input. Your post has merit. I agree with most of what
>> you said.
>>
>> I just wish Debian maintains online forums so people have a choice?
>> AFAIK https://forums.debian.net/ is not official, not long time ago they
>> didn't even had https. Now they do, but their main page debian.net still
>> incorrectly redirects to debian.org via http, not https. IDK who is the
>> operator but doesn't sound professional.
> 
> Apart from needing people to maintain the service (and a dynamic website
> requires someone, otherwise good luck to pass DSA's stamp), it would
> probably split our community onto multiple media and make them probably
> unable to talk in the long term.
> 
> I'm not sure it's a path we want to walk on.
> 
> Cheers,
> 
> --
> PEB
> 

Thank you for making that point.

It is an issue that I consider, whenever people on the mailing lists to 
which I subscribe, say "let's switch to a forum.".

Mailing lists are universally accessible, regardless of the software 
used, and, to split support communities, by imposing fora and such, is 
simply divisive, and, apart from being divisive, can cause issues to be 
raised separately, with the same solutions sought, and, needing to be 
provided, in each applicable medium, leading to much (the multiple sense 
of the word) duplication.

-- 
Bret Busby
Armadale
West Australia
(UTC+0800)
..............

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#241083

On Sun, Oct 10, 2021 at 08:33:03AM +0100, piorunz wrote:
> On 08/10/2021 18:10, Dan Ritter wrote:
> > I've just set postfix to drop anything from that host at SMTP
> > time, but I doubt it's going to work. I think they've found a
> > cannon to annoy debian-user subscribers with.
> > 
> Why we don't have this?
> https://forum.manjaro.org/

Maybe because there's [1]. There should be also IRC at libera.chat, and
that strange gizmo at [2].
[1] is also superior to Discourse that Manjaro is using as [1] can be
viewed without enabled Javascript.

You're free to convince list denizens to move elsewhere, there were such
efforts in the past. Where're still here btw.


> We still use e-mail list, prone to spam, and abuse

Once one uses own MTA, such issues are dealt quickly, simply, and most
importantly - permanently.
Consider it a hint. GMX is good, but not that good.


> technology from 30 years ago?

In other news, people are still using a wheel which was invented about
6000 years ago (4500 BC if Wikipedia is to be believed). Some things
just get better with age.
And nothing beats federated communication system which works. There's no
reasonable alternative to SMTP yet.


> Isn't it time to switch to online forums?

Different way of communicating attracts different communities. I'm sure
there's lively one at [1].


> It's not that Debian haven't got the money, right?

Where I'm living counting others' money is considered rude at best.
But I know a way - join Debian project, become Debian Developer, and
raise a General Resolution about Discourse.

Reco

[1] https://forums.debian.net/
[2] https://discourse.debian.org/

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#241092

On Sunday 10 October 2021 06:36:32 Reco wrote:

> On Sun, Oct 10, 2021 at 08:33:03AM +0100, piorunz wrote:
> > On 08/10/2021 18:10, Dan Ritter wrote:
> > > I've just set postfix to drop anything from that host at SMTP
> > > time, but I doubt it's going to work. I think they've found a
> > > cannon to annoy debian-user subscribers with.
> >
> > Why we don't have this?
> > https://forum.manjaro.org/
>
> Maybe because there's [1]. There should be also IRC at libera.chat,
> and that strange gizmo at [2].
> [1] is also superior to Discourse that Manjaro is using as [1] can be
> viewed without enabled Javascript.
>
> You're free to convince list denizens to move elsewhere, there were
> such efforts in the past. Where're still here btw.
>
> > We still use e-mail list, prone to spam, and abuse
>
> Once one uses own MTA, such issues are dealt quickly, simply, and most
> importantly - permanently.
> Consider it a hint. GMX is good, but not that good.
>
> > technology from 30 years ago?
>
> In other news, people are still using a wheel which was invented about
> 6000 years ago (4500 BC if Wikipedia is to be believed). Some things
> just get better with age.
> And nothing beats federated communication system which works. There's
> no reasonable alternative to SMTP yet.
>
> > Isn't it time to switch to online forums?
>
> Different way of communicating attracts different communities. I'm
> sure there's lively one at [1].
>
> > It's not that Debian haven't got the money, right?
>
> Where I'm living counting others' money is considered rude at best.
> But I know a way - join Debian project, become Debian Developer, and
> raise a General Resolution about Discourse.
>
> Reco
>
> [1] https://forums.debian.net/
I have to hit ctl+ quite a few times to get it readable. Then the python 
3 questions were all too obvious.

> [2] https://discourse.debian.org/
This does not resolve.

Cheers, Gene Heskett.
-- 
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author, 1940)
If we desire respect for the law, we must first make the law respectable.
 - Louis D. Brandeis
Genes Web page <http://geneslinuxbox.net:6309/gene>

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#241107

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* On 2021 10 Oct 07:50 -0500, Gene Heskett wrote:
> On Sunday 10 October 2021 06:36:32 Reco wrote:
> > [2] https://discourse.debian.org/
> This does not resolve.

Good!

I don't care for Discourse.  At. All.  Too much is in control of the
site admins.  It can probably be argued that email has too little
control, however, my main gripe about the Discourse setups I have
registered with are that the admins lock threads after a relatively
short period of time.  I do understand that some don't like old threads
coming back to the top but sometimes it is relevant to revive an old
thread as new information comes available.  Unlike TV, in the real world
solutions aren't always found in 39 1/2 minutes!

One thing about email lists, at least those managed by GNU Mailman, is
that they're archived and often the archive can be obtained by anyone
thereby preserving the content.  Just try to do that with the average
Web forum, and note that I am no stranger to Web forums.

Finally, email lets me use the mail agent and the editor *I* want, not
what is dictated by the forum software.

- Nate

-- 
"The optimist proclaims that we live in the best of all
possible worlds.  The pessimist fears this is true."
Web: https://www.n0nb.us
Projects: https://github.com/N0NB
GPG fingerprint: 82D6 4F6B 0E67 CD41 F689 BBA6 FB2C 5130 D55A 8819

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#241150

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On Du, 10 oct 21, 11:22:07, Nate Bargmann wrote:
> 
> I don't care for Discourse.  At. All.  Too much is in control of the
> site admins.  It can probably be argued that email has too little
> control, however, my main gripe about the Discourse setups I have
> registered with are that the admins lock threads after a relatively
> short period of time.  I do understand that some don't like old threads
> coming back to the top but sometimes it is relevant to revive an old
> thread as new information comes available.  Unlike TV, in the real world
> solutions aren't always found in 39 1/2 minutes!

That's more an issue with the moderation than with the software itself.

It seems to me Debian moderators (in the few places where there actually 
is such a thing) have been using a rather light-touch moderation style.
 
One major downside of mailing lists, especially for support, is that 
they are free-for-all, i.e. for a newcomer it's basically impossible to 
distinguish between good and less good (or downright harmful) advice.

Kind regards,
Andrei
-- 
http://wiki.debian.org/FAQsFromDebianUser

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#241149

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On Du, 10 oct 21, 08:49:08, Gene Heskett wrote:
> 
> > [2] https://discourse.debian.org/
> This does not resolve.

The correct URL would be with debian.net (unofficial service), but that 
isn't working either, probably taken down due to lack of interest from 
the community.

Kind regards,
Andrei
-- 
http://wiki.debian.org/FAQsFromDebianUser

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