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Groups > linux.debian.user > #236444 > unrolled thread
| Started by | Richard Owlett <rowlett@cloud85.net> |
|---|---|
| First post | 2021-06-25 15:50 +0200 |
| Last post | 2021-07-01 01:10 +0200 |
| Articles | 20 on this page of 83 — 20 participants |
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Wanted: a special purpose Debian installer Richard Owlett <rowlett@cloud85.net> - 2021-06-25 15:50 +0200
Re: Wanted: a special purpose Debian installer Dan Ritter <dsr@randomstring.org> - 2021-06-25 16:00 +0200
Re: Wanted: a special purpose Debian installer Richard Owlett <rowlett@cloud85.net> - 2021-06-25 16:50 +0200
Re: Wanted: a special purpose Debian installer "Andrew M.A. Cater" <amacater@einval.com> - 2021-06-25 23:10 +0200
Re: Wanted: a special purpose Debian installer Richard Owlett <rowlett@cloud85.net> - 2021-06-26 11:50 +0200
Re: Wanted: a special purpose Debian installer David Wright <deblis@lionunicorn.co.uk> - 2021-06-26 19:40 +0200
Re: Wanted: a special purpose Debian installer Richard Owlett <rowlett@cloud85.net> - 2021-06-26 20:40 +0200
Re: Wanted: a special purpose Debian installer Richard Owlett <rowlett@cloud85.net> - 2021-06-30 15:50 +0200
Re: Wanted: a special purpose Debian installer Felix Miata <mrmazda@earthlink.net> - 2021-06-30 20:50 +0200
Re: Wanted: a special purpose Debian installer Richard Owlett <rowlett@cloud85.net> - 2021-07-01 15:10 +0200
Re: Wanted: a special purpose Debian installer Brian <ad44@cityscape.co.uk> - 2021-07-01 17:30 +0200
Re: Wanted: a special purpose Debian installer Brian <ad44@cityscape.co.uk> - 2021-07-02 19:50 +0200
Re: Wanted: a special purpose Debian installer Felix Miata <mrmazda@earthlink.net> - 2021-07-01 18:50 +0200
Re: Wanted: a special purpose Debian installer Brian <ad44@cityscape.co.uk> - 2021-07-01 22:10 +0200
Re: Wanted: a special purpose Debian installer Felix Miata <mrmazda@earthlink.net> - 2021-07-01 22:40 +0200
Re: Wanted: a special purpose Debian installer Brian <ad44@cityscape.co.uk> - 2021-07-02 00:00 +0200
Re: Wanted: a special purpose Debian installer Richard Owlett <rowlett@cloud85.net> - 2021-07-02 12:00 +0200
Re: Wanted: a special purpose Debian installer Brian <ad44@cityscape.co.uk> - 2021-07-02 12:20 +0200
Re: Wanted: a special purpose Debian installer Brian <ad44@cityscape.co.uk> - 2021-07-02 21:10 +0200
Re: Wanted: a special purpose Debian installer Richard Owlett <rowlett@cloud85.net> - 2021-07-01 22:20 +0200
Re: Wanted: a special purpose Debian installer Brian <ad44@cityscape.co.uk> - 2021-07-01 00:20 +0200
Re: Wanted: a special purpose Debian installer Curt <curty@free.fr> - 2021-06-27 09:40 +0200
Re: Wanted: a special purpose Debian installer Richard Owlett <rowlett@cloud85.net> - 2021-06-27 10:40 +0200
Re: Wanted: a special purpose Debian installer Peter Ehlert <pb21a@sdi-baja.com> - 2021-06-27 16:40 +0200
Re: Wanted: a special purpose Debian installer Greg Wooledge <greg@wooledge.org> - 2021-06-27 16:40 +0200
Re: Wanted: a special purpose Debian installer Greg Wooledge <greg@wooledge.org> - 2021-06-27 17:40 +0200
Re: Wanted: a special purpose Debian installer Peter Ehlert <pb21a@sdi-baja.com> - 2021-06-27 17:40 +0200
Re: Wanted: a special purpose Debian installer Brian <ad44@cityscape.co.uk> - 2021-06-27 19:40 +0200
X server running on a different machine [Re: Wanted: a special purpose Debian installer] "Rick Thomas" <rick.thomas@pobox.com> - 2021-06-29 04:40 +0200
Re: X server running on a different machine [Re: Wanted: a special purpose Debian installer] Polyna-Maude Racicot-Summerside <debian@polynamaude.com> - 2021-06-29 04:50 +0200
Re: X server running on a different machine [Re: Wanted: a special purpose Debian installer] Greg Wooledge <greg@wooledge.org> - 2021-06-29 05:20 +0200
Re: X server running on a different machine [Re: Wanted: a special purpose Debian installer] Polyna-Maude Racicot-Summerside <debian@polynamaude.com> - 2021-06-29 11:00 +0200
Re: X server running on a different machine [Re: Wanted: a special purpose Debian installer] Andrei POPESCU <andreimpopescu@gmail.com> - 2021-06-30 10:30 +0200
Re: X server running on a different machine [Re: Wanted: a special purpose Debian installer] IL Ka <kazakevichilya@gmail.com> - 2021-06-29 11:50 +0200
Re: X server running on a different machine [Re: Wanted: a special purpose Debian installer] Polyna-Maude Racicot-Summerside <debian@polynamaude.com> - 2021-06-29 18:20 +0200
Re: X server running on a different machine [Re: Wanted: a special purpose Debian installer] "Andrew M.A. Cater" <amacater@einval.com> - 2021-06-29 18:40 +0200
Re: X server running on a different machine [Re: Wanted: a special purpose Debian installer] Greg Wooledge <greg@wooledge.org> - 2021-06-29 19:30 +0200
Re: X server running on a different machine [Re: Wanted: a special purpose Debian installer] Polyna-Maude Racicot-Summerside <debian@polynamaude.com> - 2021-06-29 20:10 +0200
Re: X server running on a different machine [Re: Wanted: a special purpose Debian installer] Greg Wooledge <greg@wooledge.org> - 2021-06-29 20:50 +0200
Re: X server running on a different machine [Re: Wanted: a special purpose Debian installer] "Andrew M.A. Cater" <amacater@einval.com> - 2021-06-29 21:00 +0200
Re: X server running on a different machine [Re: Wanted: a special purpose Debian installer] Lucas Castro <lucas@gnuabordo.com.br> - 2021-06-29 21:10 +0200
Re: X server running on a different machine [Re: Wanted: a special purpose Debian installer] Polyna-Maude Racicot-Summerside <debian@polynamaude.com> - 2021-06-29 22:50 +0200
Re: X server running on a different machine [Re: Wanted: a special purpose Debian installer] Greg Wooledge <greg@wooledge.org> - 2021-06-29 23:00 +0200
Re: X server running on a different machine [Re: Wanted: a special purpose Debian installer] Polyna-Maude Racicot-Summerside <debian@polynamaude.com> - 2021-06-29 23:10 +0200
Re: X server running on a different machine [Re: Wanted: a special purpose Debian installer] Andrei POPESCU <andreimpopescu@gmail.com> - 2021-06-30 10:40 +0200
Re: X server running on a different machine [Re: Wanted: a special purpose Debian installer] Polyna-Maude Racicot-Summerside <debian@polynamaude.com> - 2021-06-30 11:30 +0200
Re: X server running on a different machine [Re: Wanted: a special purpose Debian installer] The Wanderer <wanderer@fastmail.fm> - 2021-06-30 12:00 +0200
Re: X server running on a different machine [Re: Wanted: a special purpose Debian installer] Andrei POPESCU <andreimpopescu@gmail.com> - 2021-07-01 01:40 +0200
Re: X server running on a different machine [Re: Wanted: a special purpose Debian installer] The Wanderer <wanderer@fastmail.fm> - 2021-06-30 12:00 +0200
Re: X server running on a different machine [Re: Wanted: a special purpose Debian installer] Polyna-Maude Racicot-Summerside <debian@polynamaude.com> - 2021-06-30 15:20 +0200
Re: X server running on a different machine [Re: Wanted: a special purpose Debian installer] The Wanderer <wanderer@fastmail.fm> - 2021-06-30 15:40 +0200
Re: X server running on a different machine [Re: Wanted: a special purpose Debian installer] <tomas@tuxteam.de> - 2021-06-30 16:40 +0200
Re: X server running on a different machine [Re: Wanted: a special purpose Debian installer] <tomas@tuxteam.de> - 2021-06-30 12:00 +0200
Re: X server running on a different machine [Re: Wanted: a special purpose Debian installer] Polyna-Maude Racicot-Summerside <debian@polynamaude.com> - 2021-06-29 22:50 +0200
Re: X server running on a different machine [Re: Wanted: a special purpose Debian installer] <tomas@tuxteam.de> - 2021-06-30 12:00 +0200
Mailing list behaviour, words and that [was: Re: X server ...] <tomas@tuxteam.de> - 2021-06-30 14:50 +0200
Re: Mailing list behaviour, words and that [was: Re: X server ...] Roberto C. Sánchez <roberto@debian.org> - 2021-06-30 15:00 +0200
Re: Mailing list behaviour, words and that [was: Re: X server ...] Polyna-Maude Racicot-Summerside <debian@polynamaude.com> - 2021-06-30 15:40 +0200
Re: Mailing list behaviour, words and that [was: Re: X server ...] Brian <ad44@cityscape.co.uk> - 2021-06-30 20:20 +0200
Re: Mailing list behaviour, words and that [was: Re: X server ...] Brian <ad44@cityscape.co.uk> - 2021-06-30 20:50 +0200
Re: X server running on a different machine [Re: Wanted: a special purpose Debian installer] Polyna-Maude Racicot-Summerside <debian@polynamaude.com> - 2021-06-30 15:40 +0200
Re: X server running on a different machine [Re: Wanted: a special purpose Debian installer] <tomas@tuxteam.de> - 2021-06-30 16:40 +0200
Re: X server running on a different machine [Re: Wanted: a special purpose Debian installer] Greg Wooledge <greg@wooledge.org> - 2021-06-30 17:10 +0200
Re: X server running on a different machine [Re: Wanted: a special purpose Debian installer] <tomas@tuxteam.de> - 2021-06-30 17:40 +0200
Re: X server running on a different machine [Re: Wanted: a special purpose Debian installer] Polyna-Maude Racicot-Summerside <debian@polynamaude.com> - 2021-06-30 17:50 +0200
Re: X server running on a different machine [Re: Wanted: a special purpose Debian installer] Dan Ritter <dsr@randomstring.org> - 2021-06-30 18:10 +0200
Re: X server running on a different machine [Re: Wanted: a special purpose Debian installer] Polyna-Maude Racicot-Summerside <debian@polynamaude.com> - 2021-06-30 18:40 +0200
Re: X server running on a different machine [Re: Wanted: a special purpose Debian installer] Dan Ritter <dsr@randomstring.org> - 2021-06-30 20:30 +0200
Re: X server running on a different machine [Re: Wanted: a special purpose Debian installer] Brian <ad44@cityscape.co.uk> - 2021-06-30 21:30 +0200
Re: X server running on a different machine [Re: Wanted: a special purpose Debian installer] Polyna-Maude Racicot-Summerside <debian@polynamaude.com> - 2021-07-01 07:20 +0200
Re: X server running on a different machine [Re: Wanted: a special purpose Debian installer] Dan Ritter <dsr@randomstring.org> - 2021-07-01 11:30 +0200
Re: X server running on a different machine [Re: Wanted: a special purpose Debian installer] "Thompson, Brian" <brian@hashvault.io> - 2021-06-30 18:10 +0200
Re: Artifical Intellignce ( was : X something) Polyna-Maude Racicot-Summerside <debian@polynamaude.com> - 2021-06-30 19:00 +0200
Re: Artifical Intellignce ( was : X something) <tomas@tuxteam.de> - 2021-06-30 19:20 +0200
[OT, maybe] Joe <joe@jretrading.com> - 2021-06-30 22:20 +0200
Re: [OT, maybe] Weaver <weaver@riseup.net> - 2021-06-30 22:30 +0200
Re: X server running on a different machine [Re: Wanted: a special purpose Debian installer] Andrei POPESCU <andreimpopescu@gmail.com> - 2021-07-01 02:00 +0200
Re: X server running on a different machine [Re: Wanted: a special purpose Debian installer] Andrei POPESCU <andreimpopescu@gmail.com> - 2021-07-01 02:00 +0200
Re: X server running on a different machine [Re: Wanted: a special purpose Debian installer] Polyna-Maude Racicot-Summerside <debian@polynamaude.com> - 2021-07-01 06:40 +0200
Re: X server running on a different machine [Re: Wanted: a special purpose Debian installer] - continue Polyna-Maude Racicot-Summerside <debian@polynamaude.com> - 2021-07-01 07:00 +0200
Re: X server running on a different machine [Re: Wanted: a special purpose Debian installer] Joe <joe@jretrading.com> - 2021-06-30 22:10 +0200
Re: X server running on a different machine [Re: Wanted: a special purpose Debian installer] Brian <ad44@cityscape.co.uk> - 2021-06-30 20:00 +0200
Re: X server running on a different machine [Re: Wanted: a special purpose Debian installer] Brian <ad44@cityscape.co.uk> - 2021-07-01 01:10 +0200
Page 2 of 5 — ← Prev page 1 [2] 3 4 5 Next page →
| From | Brian <ad44@cityscape.co.uk> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2021-07-01 00:20 +0200 |
| Message-ID | <CvQIN-7wY-3@gated-at.bofh.it> |
| In reply to | #236663 |
On Wed 30 Jun 2021 at 08:43:51 -0500, Richard Owlett wrote:
> On 06/26/2021 01:32 PM, Richard Owlett wrote:
> > On 06/26/2021 12:31 PM, David Wright wrote:
> > > [snip]
> > >
> > > I thought we had established last year that you need to install the
> > > initial system without Recommends:
> >
> > That is EXPLICITLY my goal. I vaguely recall attempting to follow some
> > suggestions which didn't end well ;{
> >
> > >
> > > https://lists.debian.org/debian-user/2020/09/msg00436.html
> >
> > I don't recall that post.
> >
> > >
> > > and one possible answer was:
> > >
> > > https://lists.debian.org/debian-user/2020/09/msg00441.html
> >
> > That has an intriguing section:
> > > > This the tail of basically the same installer cmdline I've been
> > > > using for Debian
> > > > for several years, Bullseye the last:
> > > > netcfg/get_nameservers=8.8.4.4 netcfg/confirm_static=true tasks=standard
> > > > base-installer/install-recommends=false GRUB_DISABLE_OS_PROBER=true
> >
> > I've lost my local copy of posts from that time period. I can't do it
> > today, but tomorrow I'll create a local copy of the thread to examine.
> >
>
> Now that I've reread all the "Re: LEAN Debian install: Exploring task
> selection menu" it triggered some memories. I don't recall just when I did
> it but I had tried including "install-recommends=false" somewhere in the
> command line. It failed. IIRC there's something hard-coded in part of the
> installer that ignores that directive just where I wanted it to have effect.
> Without my local references, I don't have the details.
IIRC isn't the soundest basis for making an assertion or claim. I would
suggest YAIITUW (yet another installtion in the usual way) would help
to clear up the matter. The D.I. syslog would be useful to glance at.
--
Brian.
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| From | Curt <curty@free.fr> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2021-06-27 09:40 +0200 |
| Message-ID | <Cuxyx-hg-1@gated-at.bofh.it> |
| In reply to | #236444 |
On 2021-06-25, Richard Owlett <rowlett@cloud85.net> wrote: > One paragraph of "Debian GNU/Linux Installation Guide"[1] causes me > grief. It is part of "6.3.5. Installing the Base System"[2]. > Install only the standard system utilities with the installer, and then once you have a core system up and running install mate-desktop-environment-core which is purported to be the minimal set of packages for Mate.
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| From | Richard Owlett <rowlett@cloud85.net> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2021-06-27 10:40 +0200 |
| Message-ID | <CuyuB-S1-1@gated-at.bofh.it> |
| In reply to | #236512 |
On 06/27/2021 02:29 AM, Curt wrote: > On 2021-06-25, Richard Owlett <rowlett@cloud85.net> wrote: >> One paragraph of "Debian GNU/Linux Installation Guide"[1] causes me >> grief. It is part of "6.3.5. Installing the Base System"[2]. >> > > Install only the standard system utilities with the installer, > and then once you have a core system up and running install > > mate-desktop-environment-core > > which is purported to be the minimal set of packages for Mate. > Yepp ;/ Essentially what I've been doing. But it's frustrating that the standard installer comes ooohhh so close. Basically I was wondering if someone, a more skilled programmer, had similar frustration and experimented with a new installer. Thank you.
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| From | Peter Ehlert <pb21a@sdi-baja.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2021-06-27 16:40 +0200 |
| Message-ID | <CuE70-4rJ-3@gated-at.bofh.it> |
| In reply to | #236512 |
On 6/27/21 12:29 AM, Curt wrote: > On 2021-06-25, Richard Owlett <rowlett@cloud85.net> wrote: >> One paragraph of "Debian GNU/Linux Installation Guide"[1] causes me >> grief. It is part of "6.3.5. Installing the Base System"[2]. >> > Install only the standard system utilities with the installer, > and then once you have a core system up and running install > > mate-desktop-environment-core > > which is purported to be the minimal set of packages for Mate. good thought, I tried that just now but something is still missing. nada, no desktop, only the command line and "startx not found" > > > > >
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| From | Greg Wooledge <greg@wooledge.org> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2021-06-27 16:40 +0200 |
| Message-ID | <CuE70-4rJ-7@gated-at.bofh.it> |
| In reply to | #236539 |
On Sun, Jun 27, 2021 at 07:31:57AM -0700, Peter Ehlert wrote: > > On 6/27/21 12:29 AM, Curt wrote: > > On 2021-06-25, Richard Owlett <rowlett@cloud85.net> wrote: > > > One paragraph of "Debian GNU/Linux Installation Guide"[1] causes me > > > grief. It is part of "6.3.5. Installing the Base System"[2]. > > > > > Install only the standard system utilities with the installer, > > and then once you have a core system up and running install > > > > mate-desktop-environment-core > > > > which is purported to be the minimal set of packages for Mate. > > good thought, > > I tried that just now but something is still missing. > nada, no desktop, only the command line and "startx not found" You also need to install "xorg", which will bring in the X server and various utilities to make it run, including startx (which is in the xinit package, which is a direct dependency of xorg). X clients like MATE don't directly depend on an X server, because in theory, the X server could be on a different machine.
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| From | Greg Wooledge <greg@wooledge.org> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2021-06-27 17:40 +0200 |
| Message-ID | <CuF33-54S-5@gated-at.bofh.it> |
| In reply to | #236540 |
On Sun, Jun 27, 2021 at 08:33:58AM -0700, Peter Ehlert wrote: > > On 6/27/21 7:37 AM, Greg Wooledge wrote: > > You also need to install "xorg", which will bring in the X server and > > various utilities to make it run, including startx (which is in the > > xinit package, which is a direct dependency of xorg). > Thanks, that works > I do still need to run startx but that's not a problem Some of us prefer it that way. If you'd like a graphical login screen, choose one of the Display Manager package (perhaps lightdm or gdm3) and install that. This will change how you login, which will change which dot files you need to edit to make things happen.
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| From | Peter Ehlert <pb21a@sdi-baja.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2021-06-27 17:40 +0200 |
| Message-ID | <CuF33-54S-7@gated-at.bofh.it> |
| In reply to | #236540 |
On 6/27/21 7:37 AM, Greg Wooledge wrote: > On Sun, Jun 27, 2021 at 07:31:57AM -0700, Peter Ehlert wrote: >> On 6/27/21 12:29 AM, Curt wrote: >>> On 2021-06-25, Richard Owlett <rowlett@cloud85.net> wrote: >>>> One paragraph of "Debian GNU/Linux Installation Guide"[1] causes me >>>> grief. It is part of "6.3.5. Installing the Base System"[2]. >>>> >>> Install only the standard system utilities with the installer, >>> and then once you have a core system up and running install >>> >>> mate-desktop-environment-core >>> >>> which is purported to be the minimal set of packages for Mate. >> good thought, >> >> I tried that just now but something is still missing. >> nada, no desktop, only the command line and "startx not found" > You also need to install "xorg", which will bring in the X server and > various utilities to make it run, including startx (which is in the > xinit package, which is a direct dependency of xorg). Thanks, that works I do still need to run startx but that's not a problem > X clients like MATE don't directly depend on an X server, because in > theory, the X server could be on a different machine. > >
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| From | Brian <ad44@cityscape.co.uk> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2021-06-27 19:40 +0200 |
| Message-ID | <CuGVb-6br-3@gated-at.bofh.it> |
| In reply to | #236546 |
On Sun 27 Jun 2021 at 08:33:58 -0700, Peter Ehlert wrote: > > On 6/27/21 7:37 AM, Greg Wooledge wrote: > > On Sun, Jun 27, 2021 at 07:31:57AM -0700, Peter Ehlert wrote: > > > On 6/27/21 12:29 AM, Curt wrote: > > > > On 2021-06-25, Richard Owlett <rowlett@cloud85.net> wrote: > > > > > One paragraph of "Debian GNU/Linux Installation Guide"[1] causes me > > > > > grief. It is part of "6.3.5. Installing the Base System"[2]. > > > > > > > > > Install only the standard system utilities with the installer, > > > > and then once you have a core system up and running install > > > > > > > > mate-desktop-environment-core > > > > > > > > which is purported to be the minimal set of packages for Mate. > > > good thought, > > > > > > I tried that just now but something is still missing. > > > nada, no desktop, only the command line and "startx not found" > > You also need to install "xorg", which will bring in the X server and > > various utilities to make it run, including startx (which is in the > > xinit package, which is a direct dependency of xorg). > Thanks, that works > I do still need to run startx but that's not a problem For veteran Debian users the special purpose Debian installer to install MATE is accessed after first boot with apt install task-mate-desktop --no-install-recommends Also available from the installer itself with the correct degree of tickling. -- Brian.
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| From | "Rick Thomas" <rick.thomas@pobox.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2021-06-29 04:40 +0200 |
| Subject | X server running on a different machine [Re: Wanted: a special purpose Debian installer] |
| Message-ID | <CvbPj-8cE-1@gated-at.bofh.it> |
| In reply to | #236546 |
On Sun, Jun 27, 2021, at 8:33 AM, Peter Ehlert wrote: > > X clients like MATE don't directly depend on an X server, because in > > theory, the X server could be on a different machine. I'd love to be able to do that! E.g. a headless machine with plenty of RAM and CPU power to run Mate, but located in a locked building on the other side of campus. What do I need to install to do that? And what are the configuration options? AtDhVaAnNkCsE (thanks in ADVANCE) Rick
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| From | Polyna-Maude Racicot-Summerside <debian@polynamaude.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2021-06-29 04:50 +0200 |
| Subject | Re: X server running on a different machine [Re: Wanted: a special purpose Debian installer] |
| Message-ID | <CvbYZ-8fL-1@gated-at.bofh.it> |
| In reply to | #236585 |
[Multipart message — attachments visible in raw view] — view raw
Hi, On 2021-06-28 10:12 p.m., Rick Thomas wrote: > On Sun, Jun 27, 2021, at 8:33 AM, Peter Ehlert wrote: >>> X clients like MATE don't directly depend on an X server, because in >>> theory, the X server could be on a different machine. > > I'd love to be able to do that! E.g. a headless machine with plenty of RAM and CPU power to run Mate, but located in a locked building on the other side of campus. > > What do I need to install to do that? And what are the configuration options? > There's plenty of book you can find by searching on Google with the subject "X11 architecture" or something similar. Simply made, You have the server (the part the display on a screen, ex all the xserver-xorg-*) and You have the client (the software that ask stuff to be displayed, ex : GIMP) Plus you have a window manager that give a "look" to the windows example Gnome / KDE / TWM... What will make it possible to choose where the client display is by setting DISPLAY variable. You'll find some info about all of this by reading the Debian Handbook and the Wiki. > AtDhVaAnNkCsE (thanks in ADVANCE) > Rick > -- Polyna-Maude R.-Summerside -Be smart, Be wise, Support opensource development
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| From | Greg Wooledge <greg@wooledge.org> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2021-06-29 05:20 +0200 |
| Subject | Re: X server running on a different machine [Re: Wanted: a special purpose Debian installer] |
| Message-ID | <Cvcs1-fT-3@gated-at.bofh.it> |
| In reply to | #236586 |
On Mon, Jun 28, 2021 at 10:46:01PM -0400, Polyna-Maude Racicot-Summerside wrote: > On 2021-06-28 10:12 p.m., Rick Thomas wrote: > > I'd love to be able to do that! E.g. a headless machine with plenty of RAM and CPU power to run Mate, but located in a locked building on the other side of campus. > > > > What do I need to install to do that? And what are the configuration options? > There's plenty of book you can find by searching on Google with the > subject "X11 architecture" or something similar. > > Simply made, > You have the server (the part the display on a screen, ex all the > xserver-xorg-*) > and > You have the client (the software that ask stuff to be displayed, ex : GIMP) > Plus you have a window manager that give a "look" to the windows example > Gnome / KDE / TWM... You also probably want a Display Manager package, configured to use XDMCP. > What will make it possible to choose where the client display is by > setting DISPLAY variable. That would be a heavily piecemeal approach, and there's a bit more to it than that. If you're trying to do this without full XDMCP sessions, an easier approach to running one-off X11 clients remotely would be X11 forwarding over ssh. Simply make sure X11 forwarding is enabled on the server's sshd_config, and then "ssh -X" from the client to the server, and run the single program(s) you want to run. (Avoid ANY proposed solution that talks about xhost. Seriously.) I still think they're looking for XDMCP sessions, though.
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| From | Polyna-Maude Racicot-Summerside <debian@polynamaude.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2021-06-29 11:00 +0200 |
| Subject | Re: X server running on a different machine [Re: Wanted: a special purpose Debian installer] |
| Message-ID | <CvhL3-3fN-1@gated-at.bofh.it> |
| In reply to | #236587 |
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Hi, On 2021-06-28 11:13 p.m., Greg Wooledge wrote: > On Mon, Jun 28, 2021 at 10:46:01PM -0400, Polyna-Maude Racicot-Summerside wrote: >> On 2021-06-28 10:12 p.m., Rick Thomas wrote: >>> I'd love to be able to do that! E.g. a headless machine with plenty of RAM and CPU power to run Mate, but located in a locked building on the other side of campus. >>> >>> What do I need to install to do that? And what are the configuration options? > >> There's plenty of book you can find by searching on Google with the >> subject "X11 architecture" or something similar. >> >> Simply made, >> You have the server (the part the display on a screen, ex all the >> xserver-xorg-*) >> and >> You have the client (the software that ask stuff to be displayed, ex : GIMP) >> Plus you have a window manager that give a "look" to the windows example >> Gnome / KDE / TWM... > > You also probably want a Display Manager package, configured to use XDMCP. > >> What will make it possible to choose where the client display is by >> setting DISPLAY variable. > > That would be a heavily piecemeal approach, and there's a bit more to it > than that. > I know there's much more to this than only setting up the DISPLAY variable. But, unless this is called a complete tutorial and I'll do all your work mailing list, then I have the firm belief that if he really want to have a working solution then he's also gonna do part of the work. The guy talks about a solution on a campus. So if he's trying to build such solution then it's a must to be able doing some research on his own. Or at least reading a "old like myself" HOWTO ! I ain't gonna write back what can be found elsewhere (Wiki, Debian Docs, etc) regarding the complete sequence of authentication for using remote display of client for the X11 protocol. > If you're trying to do this without full XDMCP sessions, an easier > approach to running one-off X11 clients remotely would be X11 forwarding > over ssh. Simply make sure X11 forwarding is enabled on the server's > sshd_config, and then "ssh -X" from the client to the server, and run > the single program(s) you want to run. > You may need some configuration on the ssh server side so do a *man ssh_config* to get the info needed. > (Avoid ANY proposed solution that talks about xhost. Seriously.) > Yes, solutions using xhost maybe a bit a pain in the ass but they are also some of the nice one that get you a understanding of the inner working of the X11 architectures. > I still think they're looking for XDMCP sessions, though. > -- Polyna-Maude R.-Summerside -Be smart, Be wise, Support opensource development
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| From | Andrei POPESCU <andreimpopescu@gmail.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2021-06-30 10:30 +0200 |
| Subject | Re: X server running on a different machine [Re: Wanted: a special purpose Debian installer] |
| Message-ID | <CvDLz-863-1@gated-at.bofh.it> |
| In reply to | #236595 |
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On Ma, 29 iun 21, 04:56:55, Polyna-Maude Racicot-Summerside wrote: > > On 2021-06-28 11:13 p.m., Greg Wooledge wrote: > > > (Avoid ANY proposed solution that talks about xhost. Seriously.) > > > Yes, solutions using xhost maybe a bit a pain in the ass but they are > also some of the nice one that get you a understanding of the inner > working of the X11 architectures. I'm guessing Greg is suggesting that because most (possibly all) such solutions are unsafe. Kind regards, Andrei -- http://wiki.debian.org/FAQsFromDebianUser
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| From | IL Ka <kazakevichilya@gmail.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2021-06-29 11:50 +0200 |
| Subject | Re: X server running on a different machine [Re: Wanted: a special purpose Debian installer] |
| Message-ID | <Cvixr-3L4-3@gated-at.bofh.it> |
| In reply to | #236586 |
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> > > > There's plenty of book you can find by searching on Google with the > subject "X11 architecture" or something similar. > > There is a classic "Definitive Guides to the X Window System" series. https://www.oreilly.com/library/view/x-windows-system/9780937175835/ Also https://www.oreilly.com/library/view/x-window-system/9780937175149/
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| From | Polyna-Maude Racicot-Summerside <debian@polynamaude.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2021-06-29 18:20 +0200 |
| Subject | Re: X server running on a different machine [Re: Wanted: a special purpose Debian installer] |
| Message-ID | <CvoCR-7xD-5@gated-at.bofh.it> |
| In reply to | #236600 |
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Hi, On 2021-06-29 5:52 a.m., IL Ka wrote: > > > There's plenty of book you can find by searching on Google with the > subject "X11 architecture" or something similar. > > There is a classic "Definitive Guides to the X Window System" series. > https://www.oreilly.com/library/view/x-windows-system/9780937175835/ > <https://www.oreilly.com/library/view/x-windows-system/9780937175835/> > Also > https://www.oreilly.com/library/view/x-window-system/9780937175149/ > <https://www.oreilly.com/library/view/x-window-system/9780937175149/> > > Just wanted to say thanks, I have many books on X11 but they are all paper and in my library. I only had in mind a book by O'Reilly so it's why I didn't put down any name. As this guy talks about a campus, he probably has access to college / university library. Often the "classic" books that date from the time of X11R6 are laying around there. Those may not cover the latest techniques but they describe the big concepts of X11. It's always great to see cooperative work ;-) -- Polyna-Maude R.-Summerside -Be smart, Be wise, Support opensource development
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| From | "Andrew M.A. Cater" <amacater@einval.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2021-06-29 18:40 +0200 |
| Subject | Re: X server running on a different machine [Re: Wanted: a special purpose Debian installer] |
| Message-ID | <CvoWd-7DC-3@gated-at.bofh.it> |
| In reply to | #236617 |
On Tue, Jun 29, 2021 at 12:13:53PM -0400, Polyna-Maude Racicot-Summerside wrote: > Hi, > > On 2021-06-29 5:52 a.m., IL Ka wrote: > > > > > > There's plenty of book you can find by searching on Google with the > > subject "X11 architecture" or something similar. > > > > There is a classic "Definitive Guides to the X Window System" series. > > https://www.oreilly.com/library/view/x-windows-system/9780937175835/ > > <https://www.oreilly.com/library/view/x-windows-system/9780937175835/> > > Also > > https://www.oreilly.com/library/view/x-window-system/9780937175149/ > > <https://www.oreilly.com/library/view/x-window-system/9780937175149/> > > > > > Just wanted to say thanks, I have many books on X11 but they are all > paper and in my library. I only had in mind a book by O'Reilly so it's > why I didn't put down any name. > > As this guy talks about a campus, he probably has access to college / > university library. Often the "classic" books that date from the time of > X11R6 are laying around there. Those may not cover the latest techniques > but they describe the big concepts of X11. > > It's always great to see cooperative work ;-) > > -- > Polyna-Maude R.-Summerside > -Be smart, Be wise, Support opensource development > ssh -Y is similar to ssh -X but does some authentication - yuu don't have to use xhost+ or similar. All best, as ever, Andy Cater
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| From | Greg Wooledge <greg@wooledge.org> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2021-06-29 19:30 +0200 |
| Subject | Re: X server running on a different machine [Re: Wanted: a special purpose Debian installer] |
| Message-ID | <CvpIB-88k-7@gated-at.bofh.it> |
| In reply to | #236618 |
On Tue, Jun 29, 2021 at 04:33:50PM +0000, Andrew M.A. Cater wrote: > ssh -Y is similar to ssh -X but does some authentication - yuu don't have > to use xhost+ or similar. You don't use xhost with ssh -X, either. At least, not explicitly. ssh takes care of that for you. In fact, on Debian, ssh -X and ssh -Y do exactly the same thing, due to changes that Debian made. This is documented in the ssh(1) man page. If you've been using "xhost +" together with "ssh -X", you've been doing it wrong (and *dramatically* destroying all your network security) all along.
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| From | Polyna-Maude Racicot-Summerside <debian@polynamaude.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2021-06-29 20:10 +0200 |
| Subject | Re: X server running on a different machine [Re: Wanted: a special purpose Debian installer] |
| Message-ID | <Cvqlk-8t-3@gated-at.bofh.it> |
| In reply to | #236623 |
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Hi, On 2021-06-29 1:27 p.m., Greg Wooledge wrote: > On Tue, Jun 29, 2021 at 04:33:50PM +0000, Andrew M.A. Cater wrote: >> ssh -Y is similar to ssh -X but does some authentication - yuu don't have >> to use xhost+ or similar. > > You don't use xhost with ssh -X, either. At least, not explicitly. > ssh takes care of that for you. > > In fact, on Debian, ssh -X and ssh -Y do exactly the same thing, due > to changes that Debian made. This is documented in the ssh(1) man page. > > If you've been using "xhost +" together with "ssh -X", you've been doing > it wrong (and *dramatically* destroying all your network security) all > along. > This is going pretty much side way now. What I stated was pretty simple : Unrelated to efficacy, ease of use or whatever other consideration. Learning how to use the DISPLAY variable and learning how does xhost work, is a good way to get understanding of the separation between client and server, plus how does X11 authenticate connections. I am the person who introduced using DISPLAY and setting up X client and server the "old way". Why, simply that for someone who doesn't have any knowledge about X and the way it deals with machine separated thru a network, this will force the person some learning that will be helpful later on. Yes, using ssh -X work great but if you get some problem, you won't have gotten any knowledge on how it really work "behind the scene". By learning the whole way of how X11 work on network, this will teach you that simply said, we could reduce ssh to : Using port redirection to allow remote client to be seen as local AND Setting up the DISPLAY variable accordingly. It's of not much use to start debate without reading fully the thread. -- Polyna-Maude R.-Summerside -Be smart, Be wise, Support opensource development
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| From | Greg Wooledge <greg@wooledge.org> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2021-06-29 20:50 +0200 |
| Subject | Re: X server running on a different machine [Re: Wanted: a special purpose Debian installer] |
| Message-ID | <CvqY1-kR-1@gated-at.bofh.it> |
| In reply to | #236625 |
> On 2021-06-29 1:27 p.m., Greg Wooledge wrote: > > On Tue, Jun 29, 2021 at 04:33:50PM +0000, Andrew M.A. Cater wrote: > >> ssh -Y is similar to ssh -X but does some authentication - yuu don't have > >> to use xhost+ or similar. > > > > You don't use xhost with ssh -X, either. At least, not explicitly. > > ssh takes care of that for you. > > > > In fact, on Debian, ssh -X and ssh -Y do exactly the same thing, due > > to changes that Debian made. This is documented in the ssh(1) man page. > > > > If you've been using "xhost +" together with "ssh -X", you've been doing > > it wrong (and *dramatically* destroying all your network security) all > > along. On Tue, Jun 29, 2021 at 02:05:18PM -0400, Polyna-Maude Racicot-Summerside wrote: > What I stated was pretty simple : I wasn't replying to what *you* said. I was replying to something that Andrew Cater said. > It's of not much use to start debate without reading fully the thread. I was replying to *one* message from a person who *was not you*, because that message contained massively important wrongness. It is important that this wrongness be called out and eradicated if possible. Because it's *dangerously* wrong. Your points about "people should start out by doing it the way we did it back in 1991 so they learn the old ways first, and then they can move on to the new ways" are irrelevant to my point from *that* message, which was: DO NOT USE xhost + WITH ssh -X OR ssh -Y That was the fucking point. Now, if you want to advocate that people should use xhost + because that's how you learned things back in the early 1990s, that's your right, but I hope you will at least point out how INCREDIBLY INSECURE this is, and that it should only be done on an isolated private network, and only for educational purposes, never for actual work. Even then, you wouldn't combine it with ssh -X. xhost + and manually overriding DISPLAY bypasses the ssh encryption layer entirely. It also involves starting the X server with a non-default option, so it's quite a lot more work than using ssh -X. Which is good. We wouldn't want the horribly broken way to be the easy way.
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| From | "Andrew M.A. Cater" <amacater@einval.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2021-06-29 21:00 +0200 |
| Subject | Re: X server running on a different machine [Re: Wanted: a special purpose Debian installer] |
| Message-ID | <Cvr7H-ob-9@gated-at.bofh.it> |
| In reply to | #236626 |
On Tue, Jun 29, 2021 at 02:43:28PM -0400, Greg Wooledge wrote: > > On 2021-06-29 1:27 p.m., Greg Wooledge wrote: > > > On Tue, Jun 29, 2021 at 04:33:50PM +0000, Andrew M.A. Cater wrote: > > >> ssh -Y is similar to ssh -X but does some authentication - yuu don't have > > >> to use xhost+ or similar. > > > > > > You don't use xhost with ssh -X, either. At least, not explicitly. > > > ssh takes care of that for you. > > > > > > In fact, on Debian, ssh -X and ssh -Y do exactly the same thing, due > > > to changes that Debian made. This is documented in the ssh(1) man page. > > > > > > If you've been using "xhost +" together with "ssh -X", you've been doing > > > it wrong (and *dramatically* destroying all your network security) all > > > along. > > On Tue, Jun 29, 2021 at 02:05:18PM -0400, Polyna-Maude Racicot-Summerside wrote: > > What I stated was pretty simple : > > That was the fucking point. > Greg: If it helps, I get that - and have always got it. I hadn't appreciated that - for Debian - ssh -X and ssh -Y are essentially identical. Thanks for the pointer. Sorry to have created any confusion. It's _nearly_ July 1st. Tomorrow sometime I'll be getting round to reposting the debian-user mailing list FAQ. Please, no rude words, especially the f-ing word? As frustrating as any of us can be, it doesn't add merit to argument. Email is already hard enugh to understand and appreciate: there are folk here where English is a non-native language and swear words don't help carry meaning. All the very best to you both - and everybody reading and using this list and it's archives. Andy Cater > > Now, if you want to advocate that people should use xhost + because > that's how you learned things back in the early 1990s, that's your right, > but I hope you will at least point out how INCREDIBLY INSECURE this is, > and that it should only be done on an isolated private network, and only > for educational purposes, never for actual work. > > Even then, you wouldn't combine it with ssh -X. xhost + and manually > overriding DISPLAY bypasses the ssh encryption layer entirely. It also > involves starting the X server with a non-default option, so it's quite > a lot more work than using ssh -X. Which is good. We wouldn't want the > horribly broken way to be the easy way. >
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