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Buster on Win 10 Problems

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  Buster on Win 10 Problems "Stephen P. Molnar" <s.molnar@sbcglobal.net> - 2021-06-29 15:30 +0200
    Re: Buster on Win 10 Problems Peter Ehlert <pb21a@sdi-baja.com> - 2021-06-29 16:30 +0200
      Re: Buster on Win 10 Problems "Andrew M.A. Cater" <amacater@einval.com> - 2021-06-29 18:00 +0200
      Re: Buster on Win 10 Problems Joe <joe@jretrading.com> - 2021-06-29 18:00 +0200
        Re: Buster on Win 10 Problems IL Ka <kazakevichilya@gmail.com> - 2021-06-29 18:10 +0200
      Re: Buster on Win 10 Problems ellanios82 <ellanios82@gmail.com> - 2021-06-29 18:50 +0200
        Re: Buster on Win 10 Problems john doe <johndoe65534@mail.com> - 2021-06-30 08:40 +0200
          Re: Buster on Win 10 Problems Joe <joe@jretrading.com> - 2021-06-30 09:50 +0200
    Re: Buster on Win 10 Problems Marco Möller <talby@debianlists.mobilxpress.net> - 2021-06-29 17:20 +0200
      Re: Buster on Win 10 Problems <tomas@tuxteam.de> - 2021-06-29 18:50 +0200
    Re: Buster on Win 10 Problems David <bouncingcats@gmail.com> - 2021-06-29 18:50 +0200
    Re: Buster on Win 10 Problems Polyna-Maude Racicot-Summerside <debian@polynamaude.com> - 2021-06-29 20:10 +0200
      Re: Buster on Win 10 Problems Polyna-Maude Racicot-Summerside <debian@polynamaude.com> - 2021-06-29 23:00 +0200
    Re: Buster on Win 10 Problems Curt <curty@free.fr> - 2021-06-30 10:40 +0200
      Re: Buster on Win 10 Problems Polyna-Maude Racicot-Summerside <debian@polynamaude.com> - 2021-06-30 11:40 +0200
    Re: Buster on Win 10 Problems Andrei POPESCU <andreimpopescu@gmail.com> - 2021-07-01 02:20 +0200
      Re: Buster on Win 10 Problems IL Ka <kazakevichilya@gmail.com> - 2021-07-01 03:00 +0200

#236609 — Buster on Win 10 Problems

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First, let me assure the list that I am not trying to ignite a flame war.

 

I have a legitimate reason for installing Debian Buster on my Windows 10
laptop using Windows Subsystem Linux and X410. I have a very important
application for my Computational Chemistry research program that has never
been ported to Linux.

 

After much thrashing about and hair pulling (little enough to begin with) I
succeeded.

 

However, there are several problems, minor but annoying. I'm using the xfe4
desktop. 

 

The Application Manager Logout function will only allow Logout; Restart and
Shutdown are grayed out.

 

On the System level, clicking on the Synaptic Package Manager entry in the
pulldown manual  does not open the app; sudo synaptic in the Xfce Terminal
opens the app and it is fully functional. 

 

I hope to receive advise from this list. I shudder to think of having to
query MS, even if I got an answer it would be very murky and impossible to
implement.

 

Thanks in advance.

 

Stephen P. Molnar, Ph.D.

(614)312-7528

Skype: smolnar1

 

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#236610

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Have you investigated the possibility of Dual Booting?
it's a bit complicated, but it works.
Separate Disk Dive is best

On 6/29/21 6:28 AM, Stephen P. Molnar wrote:
>
> First, let me assure the list that I am not trying to ignite a flame war.
>
> I have a legitimate reason for installing Debian Buster on my Windows 
> 10 laptop using Windows Subsystem Linux and X410. I have a very 
> important application for my Computational Chemistry research program 
> that has never been ported to Linux.
>
> After much thrashing about and hair pulling (little enough to begin 
> with) I succeeded.
>
> However, there are several problems, minor but annoying. I’m using the 
> xfe4 desktop.
>
> The Application Manager Logout function will only allow Logout; 
> Restart and Shutdown are grayed out.
>
> On the System level, clicking on the Synaptic Package Manager entry in 
> the pulldown manual  does not open the app; sudo synaptic in the Xfce 
> Terminal opens the app and it is fully functional.
>
> I hope to receive advise from this list. I shudder to think of having 
> to query MS, even if I got an answer it would be very murky and 
> impossible to implement.
>
> Thanks in advance.
>
> Stephen P. Molnar, Ph.D.
>
> (614)312-7528
>
> Skype: smolnar1
>

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#236612

On Tue, Jun 29, 2021 at 11:36:48AM -0400, Stephen P. Molnar wrote:
> Thanks for the reply.
> 
> I have dual booted platforms in the past, and would prefer not to do so to
> solve the problems.
> 
> These problems are not show stoppers, but rather annoying.
> 
> On 06/29/2021 10:29 AM, Peter Ehlert wrote:
> > 
> > Have you investigated the possibility of Dual Booting?
> > it's a bit complicated, but it works.
> > Separate Disk Dive is best
> > 
> > On 6/29/21 6:28 AM, Stephen P. Molnar wrote:
> > > 
> > > First, let me assure the list that I am not trying to ignite a flame war.
> > > 
> > > I have a legitimate reason for installing Debian Buster on my
> > > Windows 10 laptop using Windows Subsystem Linux and X410. I have a
> > > very important application for my Computational Chemistry research
> > > program that has never been ported to Linux.
> > > 
> > > After much thrashing about and hair pulling (little enough to begin
> > > with) I succeeded.
> > > 
> > > However, there are several problems, minor but annoying. I�m using
> > > the xfe4 desktop.
> > > 
> > > The Application Manager Logout function will only allow Logout;
> > > Restart and Shutdown are grayed out.
> > > 
That may be because you can't "shutdown" in WSL2 - effectively, all you
can do is logout. Shutdown etc. are not permitted in WSL.

> > > On the System level, clicking on the Synaptic Package Manager entry
> > > in the pulldown manual  does not open the app; sudo synaptic in the
> > > Xfce Terminal opens the app and it is fully functional.
> > > 

This may be a function of WSL "run one thng at a time@ way of thinking?
This may change with hte next update to Windows which does promise GUI 
applications mediated via Microsoft's own Linux distribution.

> > > I hope to receive advise from this list. I shudder to think of
> > > having to query MS, even if I got an answer it would be very murky
> > > and impossible to implement.
> > > 

YOu might also want to try #debian-wsl on IRC, though that's very low traffic
indeed and mostly about packaging WSL.

> > > Thanks in advance.
> > > 
> > > Stephen P. Molnar, Ph.D.
> > > 
> > > (614)312-7528
> > > 
> > > Skype: smolnar1
> > > 
> 
All best, as ever,

Andy Cater

> -- 
> Stephen P. Molnar, Ph.D.
> www.molecular-modeling.net
> 614.312.7528 (c)
> Skype:  smolnar1
> 

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#236613

On Tue, 29 Jun 2021 11:36:48 -0400
"Stephen P. Molnar" <s.molnar@sbcglobal.net> wrote:

> Thanks for the reply.
> 
> I have dual booted platforms in the past, and would prefer not to do
> so to solve the problems.
> 
> These problems are not show stoppers, but rather annoying.
> 
>

This kind of thing brings to mind the joke punch line: it's like a dog
singing, it isn't great, the wonder is that it happens at all.

I've never had much luck with emulations/APIs. I gave up on wine (maybe
it's better now) because so many things nearly worked. I've had trouble
with virtual machines with getting good enough access to the hardware.

If you need reliable use of two operating systems, dual boot is the
only fairly clean way. A half-way house is to install Linux to an
external drive and plug it in when you need it, that way you avoid any
issues with booting. I did this for a while with a (Linux) netbook,
because the first-generation hardwired SSD was tiny and appallingly
slow, even for reading. It was quite strange to plug in an external
(mechanical) drive and get a massive boost in performance.

-- 
Joe

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#236614

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>
> I've never had much luck with emulations/APIs. I gave up on wine (maybe
> it's better now) because so many things nearly worked. I've had trouble
> with virtual machines with getting good enough access to the hardware.
>
>
WSL-2 is not an emulator but a real virtual machine that runs Linux kernel
patched by Microsoft.
WSL-1 is a kind of emulator (Linux kernel ABI implemented by Microsoft on
top of NT kernel).

I agree that WSL doesn't look "solid" enough. It is better to run real
Debian with double boot (or at least as virtual machine guest)

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#236620

On 6/29/21 6:36 PM, Stephen P. Molnar wrote:
> have dual booted platforms in the past, and would prefer not to do so 
> to solve the problems

.....


  - juz sayin'  : some years back , i had need for a Windows program : 
put Virtual-Box on Linux desktop : result was Alfa-Alfa-Perfect . . . no 
probs whatsoever : terrific  !!

.....

  regards

.

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#236643

On 6/29/2021 9:07 PM, Stephen P. Molnar wrote:
>
>
> On 06/29/2021 12:46 PM, ellanios82 wrote:
>> On 6/29/21 6:36 PM, Stephen P. Molnar wrote:
>>> have dual booted platforms in the past, and would prefer not to do so
>>> to solve the problems
>>
>> ....
>>
>>
>>  - juz sayin'  : some years back , i had need for a Windows program :
>> put Virtual-Box on Linux desktop : result was Alfa-Alfa-Perfect . . .
>> no probs whatsoever : terrific  !!
>>
>> ....
>>
>>  regards
>>
>> .
>>
>>
>>
> Thanks for the reply and suggestion. As a matter of fact I have just
> that on my main platform, running Buster. I can't say that I'm impressed
> with the performance.
>
> However, I need to put a suite of Computational Chemistry programs on my
> Win 10 Laptop, both as a backup for my main platform and for traveling.
>

Can't you have all required applications working on Linux?
One option would be to have linux on your laptop and Windows as a VM.

I find Qemu with KVM(linux) or haxx (Windows) better than virtualbox.

That would take sometime to set up but would be less time consuming then
trying to to compile linux stuff on Windows.

--
John Doe

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#236645

On Wed, 30 Jun 2021 08:34:17 +0200
john doe <johndoe65534@mail.com> wrote:

> On 6/29/2021 9:07 PM, Stephen P. Molnar wrote:
> >
> >
> > On 06/29/2021 12:46 PM, ellanios82 wrote:  
> >> On 6/29/21 6:36 PM, Stephen P. Molnar wrote:  
> >>> have dual booted platforms in the past, and would prefer not to
> >>> do so to solve the problems  
> >>
> >> ....
> >>
> >>
> >>  - juz sayin'  : some years back , i had need for a Windows
> >> program : put Virtual-Box on Linux desktop : result was
> >> Alfa-Alfa-Perfect . . . no probs whatsoever : terrific  !!
> >>
> >> ....
> >>
> >>  regards
> >>
> >> .
> >>
> >>
> >>  
> > Thanks for the reply and suggestion. As a matter of fact I have just
> > that on my main platform, running Buster. I can't say that I'm
> > impressed with the performance.
> >
> > However, I need to put a suite of Computational Chemistry programs
> > on my Win 10 Laptop, both as a backup for my main platform and for
> > traveling. 
> 
> Can't you have all required applications working on Linux?
> One option would be to have linux on your laptop and Windows as a VM.
> 
> I find Qemu with KVM(linux) or haxx (Windows) better than virtualbox.
> 
> That would take sometime to set up but would be less time consuming
> then trying to to compile linux stuff on Windows.
> 

Most copies of Windows aren't licensed for use in a VM. Professional
and Server versions usually are. We expect MS to respect GPL...

-- 
Joe

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#236611

On 29.06.21 15:28, Stephen P. Molnar wrote:
> First, let me assure the list that I am not trying to ignite a flame war.
> 
> I have a legitimate reason for installing Debian Buster on my Windows 10 
> laptop using Windows Subsystem Linux and X410. I have a very important 
> application for my Computational Chemistry research program that has 
> never been ported to Linux.
> 
> After much thrashing about and hair pulling (little enough to begin 
> with) I succeeded.
> 
> However, there are several problems, minor but annoying. I’m using the 
> xfe4 desktop.
> 
> The Application Manager Logout function will only allow Logout; Restart 
> and Shutdown are grayed out.
> 
> On the System level, clicking on the Synaptic Package Manager entry in 
> the pulldown manual  does not open the app; sudo synaptic in the Xfce 
> Terminal opens the app and it is fully functional.
> 
> (...)

I will not be able to fully answer your question, I have only an idea 
for you which might or might not help you to advance.

I suppose you are using the WSL2.
When I recently have had a look at it, the first mayor thing of 
importance which I noticed was, correct me if I observed it wrong, that 
it is using a Linux kernel from Microsoft and not the kernel from Debian 
(or a kernel from Ubuntu, or openSUSE, or Red Hat etc.), although you 
installed the "Debian app". Well, the Debian app is kind of a collection 
of commands as typically found at the command line after a bare minimal 
Debian install directly to the hardware, and a collection of Debian 
alike configuration files to make the by MS provided kernel and the 
commands pulled in by the Debian app to behave somewhat as you would 
expect it from a Debian OS install. But this does not change that the 
kernel from Microsoft does not use systemd. Maybe the grayed out Restart 
and Shutdown buttons are a consequence of this?

Good Luck!
Marco.

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#236621

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On Tue, Jun 29, 2021 at 11:39:59AM -0400, Stephen P. Molnar wrote:
> 
> 
> On 06/29/2021 11:12 AM, Marco M�ller wrote:
> >On 29.06.21 15:28, Stephen P. Molnar wrote:

[...]

> >I suppose you are using the WSL2.
> >When I recently have had a look at it, the first mayor thing of
> >importance which I noticed was, correct me if I observed it wrong,
> >that it is using a Linux kernel from Microsoft and not the kernel
> >from Debian (or a kernel from Ubuntu, or openSUSE, or Red Hat
> >etc.) [...]

> Thanks for the detailed reply.
> 
> Yes, you are quite correct with regard to the provence of the kernel.

Perhaps you're better off running a virtual Windows under kvm instead
of a Linux kernel fat-fingered [1] by Microsoft?

There are many howtos out there for this option, It seems quite doable.

Cheers

[1] If that sounds biased it's because it is.

 - t

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#236619

On Tue, 29 Jun 2021 at 23:28, Stephen P. Molnar <s.molnar@sbcglobal.net> wrote:

> I have a very important application for my Computational Chemistry
> research program that has never been ported to Linux.

1) Do you have the source code?
2) Does it require a graphical user interface?
3) What language is it written in?

If the answers are yes, no, and something reasonable, then
it might not be a big task for someone to port it. And then the
problem is solved properly and you don't have to spend time
on all the other complicated issues of running multiple operating
systems.

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#236624

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Hi,

On 2021-06-29 9:28 a.m., Stephen P. Molnar wrote:
> First, let me assure the list that I am not trying to ignite a flame war.
> 
>  
> 
> I have a legitimate reason for installing Debian Buster on my Windows 1
0
> laptop using Windows Subsystem Linux and X410. I have a very important
> application for my Computational Chemistry research program that has
> never been ported to Linux.
> 
What software are you talking about ?
My mother-in-law is a chemist and my father-in-law is a physicist, they
both do lot of fundamental research work. The later has also designed
may software library for waveform analysis and gas dispersion.

Maybe we could take a look on how this software could be ported to Windows.

-- 
Polyna-Maude R.-Summerside
-Be smart, Be wise, Support opensource development

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#236633

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Hi,

On 2021-06-29 3:22 p.m., Stephen P. Molnar wrote:

> I'm replying, without copying the list.  The program is GWOVina written
> by Shirley W. I. Shu and her research Group at the University of Macau.
> Shirley has been very helpful to me in getting her program up and
> running om my Linux platform. I asked her if she had ported it to
> Windows, but she replied that they had tried a few years ago and ran
> into too much trouble trouble with libraries that they gave up.
> 
> I have tried to compile the src in Windows using MS Visual Studio/Visual
> Studio Code but couldn't get very far. That was my first, and last,
> attemp at compiling C++ in a WIndows environment.
> 

Maybe trying by using Cygwin would be a good start. For sure you'll have
at least many if not infinity of problem with trying to compile directly
with MS Visual Studio / Visual C++.

Cygwin give you a somewhat more complete environment with a bash shell,
the "standard" compiler that exists on Linux (gcc/clang), the make
program and all the shell utilities used by most program compilation
process.

You can't normally simply do a "make" from a Windows command prompt and
expect a good result for text application made for Linux. But with
Cygwin, nearly all of the text application will compile, unless they try
to access hardware directly, depend on specific Linux services that
don't exist on Windows, etc.

I'll make a little research for the software you named but if you give
me references then it would be helpful.

-- 
Polyna-Maude R.-Summerside
-Be smart, Be wise, Support opensource development

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#236650

On 2021-06-29, Stephen P. Molnar <s.molnar@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
>
> The Application Manager Logout function will only allow Logout; Restart and
> Shutdown are grayed out.

... 

> On the System level, clicking on the Synaptic Package Manager entry in the
> pulldown manual  does not open the app; sudo synaptic in the Xfce Terminal
> opens the app and it is fully functional. 

...

You may be taking the concept of molecular to facetious extremes.

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#236652

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Hi,

On 2021-06-30 4:32 a.m., Curt wrote:
> On 2021-06-29, Stephen P. Molnar <s.molnar@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
>>
>> The Application Manager Logout function will only allow Logout; Restart and
>> Shutdown are grayed out.
> 
> ... 
> 
>> On the System level, clicking on the Synaptic Package Manager entry in the
>> pulldown manual  does not open the app; sudo synaptic in the Xfce Terminal
>> opens the app and it is fully functional. 
Have you tried looking thru the application logs or starting the desktop
session with "startx" console. This way you'll get some text that may
give a hint on why doesn't synaptic start.

To access a console you simply type "ALT+Fx". Possibly that the 2nd one
is already used so doing Alt+F4 shall do it.
After simply log on with username and password.
Type "startx" in the shell.
You'll see a bunch of text and a graphic screen start.
Do ALT+F4
Look at the last line of text
Go back to your graphic screen (depending on how your system is
configured, it shall be that last screen so use ALT+Fx going up to it).
Click to start synaptic
Go back to console #4 (Alt+F4)
See if there's new text on screen....
You can also do a dmesg from a xterm and see if there's something added...

It's hard for anyone to understand what bugs you may have if you don't
give us more information or give us a way to reproduce it somehow
(without resorting to installing Windows)...

Did I understand you run Debian with Linux subsystem for Windows or
something with a similar name ?



-- 
Polyna-Maude R.-Summerside
-Be smart, Be wise, Support opensource development

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#236694

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On Ma, 29 iun 21, 09:28:00, Stephen P. Molnar wrote:
> First, let me assure the list that I am not trying to ignite a flame war.
> 
>  
> 
> I have a legitimate reason for installing Debian Buster on my Windows 10
> laptop using Windows Subsystem Linux and X410. I have a very important
> application for my Computational Chemistry research program that has never
> been ported to Linux.

Is WSL a hard requirement? As far as I know Debian runs quite well in 
Virtualbox (make sure you install the guest additions).

Kind regards,
Andrei
-- 
http://wiki.debian.org/FAQsFromDebianUser

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#236695

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>
>
>
> Is WSL a hard requirement? As far as I know Debian runs quite well in
> Virtualbox (make sure you install the guest additions).
>

Yes, I use it alot)
It also runs well on the Hyper-V (which is a part of Windows), just make
sure to disable secure boot in VM.

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