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Groups > linux.debian.user > #236444 > unrolled thread

Wanted: a special purpose Debian installer

Started byRichard Owlett <rowlett@cloud85.net>
First post2021-06-25 15:50 +0200
Last post2021-07-01 01:10 +0200
Articles 20 on this page of 83 — 20 participants

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Contents

  Wanted: a special purpose Debian installer Richard Owlett <rowlett@cloud85.net> - 2021-06-25 15:50 +0200
    Re: Wanted: a special purpose Debian installer Dan Ritter <dsr@randomstring.org> - 2021-06-25 16:00 +0200
      Re: Wanted: a special purpose Debian installer Richard Owlett <rowlett@cloud85.net> - 2021-06-25 16:50 +0200
    Re: Wanted: a special purpose Debian installer "Andrew M.A. Cater" <amacater@einval.com> - 2021-06-25 23:10 +0200
      Re: Wanted: a special purpose Debian installer Richard Owlett <rowlett@cloud85.net> - 2021-06-26 11:50 +0200
        Re: Wanted: a special purpose Debian installer David Wright <deblis@lionunicorn.co.uk> - 2021-06-26 19:40 +0200
          Re: Wanted: a special purpose Debian installer Richard Owlett <rowlett@cloud85.net> - 2021-06-26 20:40 +0200
            Re: Wanted: a special purpose Debian installer Richard Owlett <rowlett@cloud85.net> - 2021-06-30 15:50 +0200
              Re: Wanted: a special purpose Debian installer Felix Miata <mrmazda@earthlink.net> - 2021-06-30 20:50 +0200
                Re: Wanted: a special purpose Debian installer Richard Owlett <rowlett@cloud85.net> - 2021-07-01 15:10 +0200
                  Re: Wanted: a special purpose Debian installer Brian <ad44@cityscape.co.uk> - 2021-07-01 17:30 +0200
                    Re: Wanted: a special purpose Debian installer Brian <ad44@cityscape.co.uk> - 2021-07-02 19:50 +0200
                  Re: Wanted: a special purpose Debian installer Felix Miata <mrmazda@earthlink.net> - 2021-07-01 18:50 +0200
                    Re: Wanted: a special purpose Debian installer Brian <ad44@cityscape.co.uk> - 2021-07-01 22:10 +0200
                      Re: Wanted: a special purpose Debian installer Felix Miata <mrmazda@earthlink.net> - 2021-07-01 22:40 +0200
                        Re: Wanted: a special purpose Debian installer Brian <ad44@cityscape.co.uk> - 2021-07-02 00:00 +0200
                          Re: Wanted: a special purpose Debian installer Richard Owlett <rowlett@cloud85.net> - 2021-07-02 12:00 +0200
                            Re: Wanted: a special purpose Debian installer Brian <ad44@cityscape.co.uk> - 2021-07-02 12:20 +0200
                              Re: Wanted: a special purpose Debian installer Brian <ad44@cityscape.co.uk> - 2021-07-02 21:10 +0200
                    Re: Wanted: a special purpose Debian installer Richard Owlett <rowlett@cloud85.net> - 2021-07-01 22:20 +0200
              Re: Wanted: a special purpose Debian installer Brian <ad44@cityscape.co.uk> - 2021-07-01 00:20 +0200
    Re: Wanted: a special purpose Debian installer Curt <curty@free.fr> - 2021-06-27 09:40 +0200
      Re: Wanted: a special purpose Debian installer Richard Owlett <rowlett@cloud85.net> - 2021-06-27 10:40 +0200
      Re: Wanted: a special purpose Debian installer Peter Ehlert <pb21a@sdi-baja.com> - 2021-06-27 16:40 +0200
        Re: Wanted: a special purpose Debian installer Greg Wooledge <greg@wooledge.org> - 2021-06-27 16:40 +0200
          Re: Wanted: a special purpose Debian installer Greg Wooledge <greg@wooledge.org> - 2021-06-27 17:40 +0200
          Re: Wanted: a special purpose Debian installer Peter Ehlert <pb21a@sdi-baja.com> - 2021-06-27 17:40 +0200
            Re: Wanted: a special purpose Debian installer Brian <ad44@cityscape.co.uk> - 2021-06-27 19:40 +0200
            X server running on a different machine [Re: Wanted: a special purpose Debian installer] "Rick Thomas" <rick.thomas@pobox.com> - 2021-06-29 04:40 +0200
              Re: X server running on a different machine [Re: Wanted: a special  purpose Debian installer] Polyna-Maude Racicot-Summerside <debian@polynamaude.com> - 2021-06-29 04:50 +0200
                Re: X server running on a different machine [Re: Wanted: a special  purpose Debian installer] Greg Wooledge <greg@wooledge.org> - 2021-06-29 05:20 +0200
                  Re: X server running on a different machine [Re: Wanted: a special  purpose Debian installer] Polyna-Maude Racicot-Summerside <debian@polynamaude.com> - 2021-06-29 11:00 +0200
                    Re: X server running on a different machine [Re: Wanted: a special  purpose Debian installer] Andrei POPESCU <andreimpopescu@gmail.com> - 2021-06-30 10:30 +0200
                Re: X server running on a different machine [Re: Wanted: a special  purpose Debian installer] IL Ka <kazakevichilya@gmail.com> - 2021-06-29 11:50 +0200
                  Re: X server running on a different machine [Re: Wanted: a special  purpose Debian installer] Polyna-Maude Racicot-Summerside <debian@polynamaude.com> - 2021-06-29 18:20 +0200
                    Re: X server running on a different machine [Re: Wanted: a special  purpose Debian installer] "Andrew M.A. Cater" <amacater@einval.com> - 2021-06-29 18:40 +0200
                      Re: X server running on a different machine [Re: Wanted: a special  purpose Debian installer] Greg Wooledge <greg@wooledge.org> - 2021-06-29 19:30 +0200
                        Re: X server running on a different machine [Re: Wanted: a special  purpose Debian installer] Polyna-Maude Racicot-Summerside <debian@polynamaude.com> - 2021-06-29 20:10 +0200
                          Re: X server running on a different machine [Re: Wanted: a special  purpose Debian installer] Greg Wooledge <greg@wooledge.org> - 2021-06-29 20:50 +0200
                            Re: X server running on a different machine [Re: Wanted: a special  purpose Debian installer] "Andrew M.A. Cater" <amacater@einval.com> - 2021-06-29 21:00 +0200
                              Re: X server running on a different machine [Re: Wanted: a special purpose Debian installer] Lucas Castro <lucas@gnuabordo.com.br> - 2021-06-29 21:10 +0200
                            Re: X server running on a different machine [Re: Wanted: a special  purpose Debian installer] Polyna-Maude Racicot-Summerside <debian@polynamaude.com> - 2021-06-29 22:50 +0200
                              Re: X server running on a different machine [Re: Wanted: a special  purpose Debian installer] Greg Wooledge <greg@wooledge.org> - 2021-06-29 23:00 +0200
                                Re: X server running on a different machine [Re: Wanted: a special  purpose Debian installer] Polyna-Maude Racicot-Summerside <debian@polynamaude.com> - 2021-06-29 23:10 +0200
                                  Re: X server running on a different machine [Re: Wanted: a special  purpose Debian installer] Andrei POPESCU <andreimpopescu@gmail.com> - 2021-06-30 10:40 +0200
                                    Re: X server running on a different machine [Re: Wanted: a special  purpose Debian installer] Polyna-Maude Racicot-Summerside <debian@polynamaude.com> - 2021-06-30 11:30 +0200
                                      Re: X server running on a different machine [Re: Wanted: a special  purpose Debian installer] The Wanderer <wanderer@fastmail.fm> - 2021-06-30 12:00 +0200
                                        Re: X server running on a different machine [Re: Wanted: a special  purpose Debian installer] Andrei POPESCU <andreimpopescu@gmail.com> - 2021-07-01 01:40 +0200
                                      Re: X server running on a different machine [Re: Wanted: a special  purpose Debian installer] The Wanderer <wanderer@fastmail.fm> - 2021-06-30 12:00 +0200
                                        Re: X server running on a different machine [Re: Wanted: a special  purpose Debian installer] Polyna-Maude Racicot-Summerside <debian@polynamaude.com> - 2021-06-30 15:20 +0200
                                          Re: X server running on a different machine [Re: Wanted: a special  purpose Debian installer] The Wanderer <wanderer@fastmail.fm> - 2021-06-30 15:40 +0200
                                          Re: X server running on a different machine [Re: Wanted: a special  purpose Debian installer] <tomas@tuxteam.de> - 2021-06-30 16:40 +0200
                                      Re: X server running on a different machine [Re: Wanted: a special  purpose Debian installer] <tomas@tuxteam.de> - 2021-06-30 12:00 +0200
                            Re: X server running on a different machine [Re: Wanted: a special  purpose Debian installer] Polyna-Maude Racicot-Summerside <debian@polynamaude.com> - 2021-06-29 22:50 +0200
                            Re: X server running on a different machine [Re: Wanted: a special  purpose Debian installer] <tomas@tuxteam.de> - 2021-06-30 12:00 +0200
                              Mailing list behaviour, words and that [was: Re: X server ...] <tomas@tuxteam.de> - 2021-06-30 14:50 +0200
                                Re: Mailing list behaviour, words and that [was: Re: X server ...] Roberto C. Sánchez <roberto@debian.org> - 2021-06-30 15:00 +0200
                                  Re: Mailing list behaviour, words and that [was: Re: X server ...] Polyna-Maude Racicot-Summerside <debian@polynamaude.com> - 2021-06-30 15:40 +0200
                                Re: Mailing list behaviour, words and that [was: Re: X server ...] Brian <ad44@cityscape.co.uk> - 2021-06-30 20:20 +0200
                                Re: Mailing list behaviour, words and that [was: Re: X server ...] Brian <ad44@cityscape.co.uk> - 2021-06-30 20:50 +0200
                              Re: X server running on a different machine [Re: Wanted: a special  purpose Debian installer] Polyna-Maude Racicot-Summerside <debian@polynamaude.com> - 2021-06-30 15:40 +0200
                                Re: X server running on a different machine [Re: Wanted: a special  purpose Debian installer] <tomas@tuxteam.de> - 2021-06-30 16:40 +0200
                                  Re: X server running on a different machine [Re: Wanted: a special  purpose Debian installer] Greg Wooledge <greg@wooledge.org> - 2021-06-30 17:10 +0200
                                    Re: X server running on a different machine [Re: Wanted: a special  purpose Debian installer] <tomas@tuxteam.de> - 2021-06-30 17:40 +0200
                                    Re: X server running on a different machine [Re: Wanted: a special  purpose Debian installer] Polyna-Maude Racicot-Summerside <debian@polynamaude.com> - 2021-06-30 17:50 +0200
                                      Re: X server running on a different machine [Re: Wanted: a special  purpose Debian installer] Dan Ritter <dsr@randomstring.org> - 2021-06-30 18:10 +0200
                                        Re: X server running on a different machine [Re: Wanted: a special  purpose Debian installer] Polyna-Maude Racicot-Summerside <debian@polynamaude.com> - 2021-06-30 18:40 +0200
                                          Re: X server running on a different machine [Re: Wanted: a special  purpose Debian installer] Dan Ritter <dsr@randomstring.org> - 2021-06-30 20:30 +0200
                                            Re: X server running on a different machine [Re: Wanted: a special  purpose Debian installer] Brian <ad44@cityscape.co.uk> - 2021-06-30 21:30 +0200
                                            Re: X server running on a different machine [Re: Wanted: a special  purpose Debian installer] Polyna-Maude Racicot-Summerside <debian@polynamaude.com> - 2021-07-01 07:20 +0200
                                              Re: X server running on a different machine [Re: Wanted: a special  purpose Debian installer] Dan Ritter <dsr@randomstring.org> - 2021-07-01 11:30 +0200
                                      Re: X server running on a different machine [Re: Wanted: a special  purpose Debian installer] "Thompson, Brian" <brian@hashvault.io> - 2021-06-30 18:10 +0200
                                        Re: Artifical Intellignce ( was : X something) Polyna-Maude Racicot-Summerside <debian@polynamaude.com> - 2021-06-30 19:00 +0200
                                          Re: Artifical Intellignce ( was : X something) <tomas@tuxteam.de> - 2021-06-30 19:20 +0200
                                        [OT, maybe] Joe <joe@jretrading.com> - 2021-06-30 22:20 +0200
                                          Re: [OT, maybe] Weaver <weaver@riseup.net> - 2021-06-30 22:30 +0200
                                        Re: X server running on a different machine [Re: Wanted: a special  purpose Debian installer] Andrei POPESCU <andreimpopescu@gmail.com> - 2021-07-01 02:00 +0200
                                      Re: X server running on a different machine [Re: Wanted: a special  purpose Debian installer] Andrei POPESCU <andreimpopescu@gmail.com> - 2021-07-01 02:00 +0200
                                        Re: X server running on a different machine [Re: Wanted: a special  purpose Debian installer] Polyna-Maude Racicot-Summerside <debian@polynamaude.com> - 2021-07-01 06:40 +0200
                                          Re: X server running on a different machine [Re: Wanted: a special  purpose Debian installer] - continue Polyna-Maude Racicot-Summerside <debian@polynamaude.com> - 2021-07-01 07:00 +0200
                                Re: X server running on a different machine [Re: Wanted: a special  purpose Debian installer] Joe <joe@jretrading.com> - 2021-06-30 22:10 +0200
                              Re: X server running on a different machine [Re: Wanted: a special  purpose Debian installer] Brian <ad44@cityscape.co.uk> - 2021-06-30 20:00 +0200
                                Re: X server running on a different machine [Re: Wanted: a special  purpose Debian installer] Brian <ad44@cityscape.co.uk> - 2021-07-01 01:10 +0200

Page 1 of 5  [1] 2 3 4 5  Next page →


#236444 — Wanted: a special purpose Debian installer

FromRichard Owlett <rowlett@cloud85.net>
Date2021-06-25 15:50 +0200
SubjectWanted: a special purpose Debian installer
Message-ID<CtUnw-QW-3@gated-at.bofh.it>
One paragraph of "Debian GNU/Linux Installation Guide"[1] causes me 
grief. It is part of "6.3.5. Installing the Base System"[2].

That paragraph states:
> When packages are installed using the package management system, it will
> by default also install packages that are recommended by those packages.
> Recommended packages are not strictly required for the core functionality > of the selected software, but they do enhance that software and should,
> in the view of the package maintainers, normally be installed together with
> that software.

I like the MATE Desktop. If the package mate-desktop-environment is in 
stalled *WITHOUT* "recommended" packages I get my desired skeletal 
Debian system.

I believe changing one screen of the standard would give me what I want 
and likely satisfy the maintainers mentioned above. In the screen titled 
"Software selection", change the first line from "Debian desktop 
environment" to "Install the desktop selected below with all recommended 
utilities". If that option and the Gnome option are selected by default 
the effect would be the same as the current installer. If I deselect the 
first line and select MATE, I get my desired system.

Does such an installer already exist?
TIA

[1]  https://www.debian.org/releases/stable/amd64/index.en.html
[2]  https://www.debian.org/releases/stable/amd64/ch06s03.en.html

[toc] | [next] | [standalone]


#236445

FromDan Ritter <dsr@randomstring.org>
Date2021-06-25 16:00 +0200
Message-ID<CtUxb-Um-1@gated-at.bofh.it>
In reply to#236444
Richard Owlett wrote: 
> I like the MATE Desktop. If the package mate-desktop-environment is in
> stalled *WITHOUT* "recommended" packages I get my desired skeletal Debian
> system.
> 
> I believe changing one screen of the standard would give me what I want and
> likely satisfy the maintainers mentioned above. In the screen titled
> "Software selection", change the first line from "Debian desktop
> environment" to "Install the desktop selected below with all recommended
> utilities". If that option and the Gnome option are selected by default the
> effect would be the same as the current installer. If I deselect the first
> line and select MATE, I get my desired system.
> 
> Does such an installer already exist?

The preseeder should work for this.

Read:
https://debian-handbook.info/browse/stable/sect.automated-installation.html

at 12.3.2 and onwards.

-dsr-

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#236448

FromRichard Owlett <rowlett@cloud85.net>
Date2021-06-25 16:50 +0200
Message-ID<CtVjA-1pA-3@gated-at.bofh.it>
In reply to#236445
No need for CC: as I'm subscribed to debian-user

On 06/25/2021 08:53 AM, Dan Ritter wrote:
> Richard Owlett wrote:
>> I like the MATE Desktop. If the package mate-desktop-environment is in
>> stalled *WITHOUT* "recommended" packages I get my desired skeletal Debian
>> system.
>>
>> I believe changing one screen of the standard would give me what I want and
>> likely satisfy the maintainers mentioned above. In the screen titled
>> "Software selection", change the first line from "Debian desktop
>> environment" to "Install the desktop selected below with all recommended
>> utilities". If that option and the Gnome option are selected by default the
>> effect would be the same as the current installer. If I deselect the first
>> line and select MATE, I get my desired system.
>>
>> Does such an installer already exist?
> 
> The preseeder should work for this.
> 
> Read:
> https://debian-handbook.info/browse/stable/sect.automated-installation.html
> 
> at 12.3.2 and onwards.
>

<chuckle> Part of the reason I know what I want is reasonable is that 
back in days of Squeeze I made much use of preseeding.

However, I find the brief description that link gives of simple-CDD 
intriguing. It may address some annoyances I found when using 
preseeding. As the weekend weather is going bounce between very hot and 
very wet an indoor reading assignment is welcome.

Thanks

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#236463

From"Andrew M.A. Cater" <amacater@einval.com>
Date2021-06-25 23:10 +0200
Message-ID<Cu1fj-58k-5@gated-at.bofh.it>
In reply to#236444
On Fri, Jun 25, 2021 at 08:48:47AM -0500, Richard Owlett wrote:
> One paragraph of "Debian GNU/Linux Installation Guide"[1] causes me grief.
> It is part of "6.3.5. Installing the Base System"[2].
> 
> That paragraph states:
> > When packages are installed using the package management system, it will
> > by default also install packages that are recommended by those packages.
> > Recommended packages are not strictly required for the core functionality > of the selected software, but they do enhance that software and should,
> > in the view of the package maintainers, normally be installed together with
> > that software.
> 
> I like the MATE Desktop. If the package mate-desktop-environment is in
> stalled *WITHOUT* "recommended" packages I get my desired skeletal Debian
> system.
> 
> I believe changing one screen of the standard would give me what I want and
> likely satisfy the maintainers mentioned above. In the screen titled
> "Software selection", change the first line from "Debian desktop
> environment" to "Install the desktop selected below with all recommended
> utilities". If that option and the Gnome option are selected by default the
> effect would be the same as the current installer. If I deselect the first
> line and select MATE, I get my desired system.
> 

Everything you need is already in the Debian installer: use an expert 
instaLL and text mode to install it. Do not select Debian desktop environment: 
select only Mate - job done. Use what's already there: you may hve noted that 
I often give the advice on -user for a minimal install to start out with a 
text mode expert install and sort out _exactly_ what you want.

Start with a text mode only - command line environment - then add 
mate-desktop-environment. Optionally, you can configure apt to ignore 
recommends.

> Does such an installer already exist?
> TIA
> 
> [1]  https://www.debian.org/releases/stable/amd64/index.en.html
> [2]  https://www.debian.org/releases/stable/amd64/ch06s03.en.html
> 
> 

All best, as ever,

Andy Cater

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#236472

FromRichard Owlett <rowlett@cloud85.net>
Date2021-06-26 11:50 +0200
Message-ID<Cud6N-3Ug-3@gated-at.bofh.it>
In reply to#236463
On 06/25/2021 04:06 PM, Andrew M.A. Cater wrote:
> On Fri, Jun 25, 2021 at 08:48:47AM -0500, Richard Owlett wrote:
>> One paragraph of "Debian GNU/Linux Installation Guide"[1] causes me grief.
>> It is part of "6.3.5. Installing the Base System"[2].
>>
>> That paragraph states:
>>> When packages are installed using the package management system, it will
>>> by default also install packages that are recommended by those packages.
>>> Recommended packages are not strictly required for the core functionality
>>> of the selected software, but they do enhance that software and should,
>>> in the view of the package maintainers, normally be installed together with
>>> that software.
>>
>> I like the MATE Desktop. If the package mate-desktop-environment is in
>> stalled *WITHOUT* "recommended" packages I get my desired skeletal Debian
>> system.
>>
>> I believe changing one screen of the standard would give me what I want and
>> likely satisfy the maintainers mentioned above. In the screen titled
>> "Software selection", change the first line from "Debian desktop
>> environment" to "Install the desktop selected below with all recommended
>> utilities". If that option and the Gnome option are selected by default the
>> effect would be the same as the current installer. If I deselect the first
>> line and select MATE, I get my desired system.
>>
> 
> Everything you need is already in the Debian installer: use an expert
> instaLL and text mode to install it.

I've been doing that for years. In fact I got so accustomed to expert 
mode that when I switched from purchasing install DVDs I got disoriented 
by the vendor's concealment of expert mode.

> Do not select Debian desktop environment: select only Mate - job done.

No it is *NOT*. All the excess baggage I wish to avoid is installed, 
e.g. LibreOffice, Firefox etc. etc.

I'll have to leave this sub-thread for a while.
While looking for a related thread on my machine I discovered a >3yr old 
post that suggests a round-about way to deal with my problem that 
installing from flash media is experientially *NOT* the same as 
installing from DVD.

Later.

> Use what's already there: you may have noted that
> I often give the advice on -user for a minimal install to start out with a
> text mode expert install and sort out _exactly_ what you want.
> 
> Start with a text mode only - command line environment - then add
> mate-desktop-environment. Optionally, you can configure apt to ignore
> recommends.
> 
>> Does such an installer already exist?
>> TIA
>>
>> [1]  https://www.debian.org/releases/stable/amd64/index.en.html
>> [2]  https://www.debian.org/releases/stable/amd64/ch06s03.en.html
>>
>>
> 
> All best, as ever,
> 
> Andy Cater
> 
> 
> 

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#236497

FromDavid Wright <deblis@lionunicorn.co.uk>
Date2021-06-26 19:40 +0200
Message-ID<CukrE-cE-1@gated-at.bofh.it>
In reply to#236472
On Sat 26 Jun 2021 at 04:49:08 (-0500), Richard Owlett wrote:
> On 06/25/2021 04:06 PM, Andrew M.A. Cater wrote:
> > On Fri, Jun 25, 2021 at 08:48:47AM -0500, Richard Owlett wrote:
> > > One paragraph of "Debian GNU/Linux Installation Guide"[1] causes me grief.
> > > It is part of "6.3.5. Installing the Base System"[2].
> > > 
> > > That paragraph states:
> > > > When packages are installed using the package management system, it will
> > > > by default also install packages that are recommended by those packages.
> > > > Recommended packages are not strictly required for the core functionality
> > > > of the selected software, but they do enhance that software and should,
> > > > in the view of the package maintainers, normally be installed together with
> > > > that software.
> > > 
> > > I like the MATE Desktop. If the package mate-desktop-environment is in
> > > stalled *WITHOUT* "recommended" packages I get my desired skeletal Debian
> > > system.
> > > 
> > > I believe changing one screen of the standard would give me what I want and
> > > likely satisfy the maintainers mentioned above. In the screen titled
> > > "Software selection", change the first line from "Debian desktop
> > > environment" to "Install the desktop selected below with all recommended
> > > utilities". If that option and the Gnome option are selected by default the
> > > effect would be the same as the current installer. If I deselect the first
> > > line and select MATE, I get my desired system.
> > > 
> > 
> > Everything you need is already in the Debian installer: use an expert
> > instaLL and text mode to install it.
> 
> I've been doing that for years. In fact I got so accustomed to expert
> mode that when I switched from purchasing install DVDs I got
> disoriented by the vendor's concealment of expert mode.
> 
> > Do not select Debian desktop environment: select only Mate - job done.
> 
> No it is *NOT*. All the excess baggage I wish to avoid is installed,
> e.g. LibreOffice, Firefox etc. etc.

I thought we had established last year that you need to install the
initial system without Recommends:

https://lists.debian.org/debian-user/2020/09/msg00436.html

and one possible answer was:

https://lists.debian.org/debian-user/2020/09/msg00441.html

I don't remember your ever reporting doing that. Did you try it,
and what was the result? It would be nice to put this problem to bed,
rather than revisiting it ever year.

> I'll have to leave this sub-thread for a while.
> While looking for a related thread on my machine I discovered a >3yr
> old post that suggests a round-about way to deal with my problem that
> installing from flash media is experientially *NOT* the same as
> installing from DVD.
> 
> Later.
> 
> > Use what's already there: you may have noted that
> > I often give the advice on -user for a minimal install to start out with a
> > text mode expert install and sort out _exactly_ what you want.
> > 
> > Start with a text mode only - command line environment - then add
> > mate-desktop-environment. Optionally, you can configure apt to ignore
> > recommends.
> > 
> > > Does such an installer already exist?

Were this to be my own priority in building a system, I'd be tempted
to test its feasibility by hacking the d-i itself. Looking at
bin/apt-install, I can see the following two sections just waiting
to be hacked:

    --with-recommends)
        WITH_RECOMMENDS=1
        OPTS="$OPTS $1"
        ;;

early on, and:

  apt_opts="-q -y"
  if [ -z "$ALLOW_REMOVE" ]; then
          apt_opts="$apt_opts --no-remove"
  fi
  if [ "$WITH_RECOMMENDS" ]; then
          apt_opts="$apt_opts -o APT::Install-Recommends=true"
  elif [ "$NO_RECOMMENDS" ]; then
          apt_opts="$apt_opts -o APT::Install-Recommends=false"
  fi

towards the end. The latter looks particularly like the section
that constructs the d-i's command line:

  Commandline: apt-get -o APT::Status-Fd=4 -o APT::Keep-Fds::=5 -o APT::Keep-Fds::=6 -q -y -o APT::Install-Recommends=true -o APT::Get::AutomaticRemove=true -o APT::Acquire::Retries=3 install task-print-server task-ssh-server … blah blah

If changing the two strings   WITH_RECOMMENDS=1   and   APT::Install-Recommends=true
has the desired effect, then it would obviously be worth finding the
elegant way of setting these options (assuming that's not precisely
what Felix's suggestion does). You'd have to edit bin/apt-install
early on, from a shell, to try this experiment.

Cheers,
David.

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#236500

FromRichard Owlett <rowlett@cloud85.net>
Date2021-06-26 20:40 +0200
Message-ID<CulnH-Ur-5@gated-at.bofh.it>
In reply to#236497
On 06/26/2021 12:31 PM, David Wright wrote:
> [snip]
> 
> I thought we had established last year that you need to install the
> initial system without Recommends:

That is EXPLICITLY my goal. I vaguely recall attempting to follow some 
suggestions which didn't end well ;{

> 
> https://lists.debian.org/debian-user/2020/09/msg00436.html

I don't recall that post.

> 
> and one possible answer was:
> 
> https://lists.debian.org/debian-user/2020/09/msg00441.html

That has an intriguing section:
>> This the tail of basically the same installer cmdline I've been using for Debian
>> for several years, Bullseye the last:
>> netcfg/get_nameservers=8.8.4.4 netcfg/confirm_static=true tasks=standard
>> base-installer/install-recommends=false GRUB_DISABLE_OS_PROBER=true

I've lost my local copy of posts from that time period. I can't do it 
today, but tomorrow I'll create a local copy of the thread to examine.


> 
> I don't remember your ever reporting doing that. Did you try it,
> and what was the result? It would be nice to put this problem to bed,
> rather than revisiting it ever year.

I tried many things. Usually a mass failure. I'll see what I can re-create.
Thank you.

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#236663

FromRichard Owlett <rowlett@cloud85.net>
Date2021-06-30 15:50 +0200
Message-ID<CvILg-2ys-11@gated-at.bofh.it>
In reply to#236500
On 06/26/2021 01:32 PM, Richard Owlett wrote:
> On 06/26/2021 12:31 PM, David Wright wrote:
>> [snip]
>>
>> I thought we had established last year that you need to install the
>> initial system without Recommends:
> 
> That is EXPLICITLY my goal. I vaguely recall attempting to follow some 
> suggestions which didn't end well ;{
> 
>>
>> https://lists.debian.org/debian-user/2020/09/msg00436.html
> 
> I don't recall that post.
> 
>>
>> and one possible answer was:
>>
>> https://lists.debian.org/debian-user/2020/09/msg00441.html
> 
> That has an intriguing section:
>>> This the tail of basically the same installer cmdline I've been using 
>>> for Debian
>>> for several years, Bullseye the last:
>>> netcfg/get_nameservers=8.8.4.4 netcfg/confirm_static=true tasks=standard
>>> base-installer/install-recommends=false GRUB_DISABLE_OS_PROBER=true
> 
> I've lost my local copy of posts from that time period. I can't do it 
> today, but tomorrow I'll create a local copy of the thread to examine.
> 

Now that I've reread all the "Re: LEAN Debian install: Exploring task 
selection menu" it triggered some memories. I don't recall just when I 
did it but I had tried including "install-recommends=false" somewhere in 
the command line. It failed. IIRC there's something hard-coded in part 
of the installer that ignores that directive just where I wanted it to 
have effect. Without my local references, I don't have the details.




>> I don't remember your ever reporting doing that. Did you try it,
>> and what was the result? It would be nice to put this problem to bed,
>> rather than revisiting it ever year.
> 
> I tried many things. Usually a mass failure. I'll see what I can re-create.
> Thank you.
> 
> 
> 
> 

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#236681

FromFelix Miata <mrmazda@earthlink.net>
Date2021-06-30 20:50 +0200
Message-ID<CvNrz-5rl-1@gated-at.bofh.it>
In reply to#236663
Richard Owlett composed on 2021-06-30 08:43 (UTC-0500):

> I don't recall just when I 
> did it but I had tried including "install-recommends=false" somewhere in 
> the command line. It failed.											
I start most installations with Grub. Nearly always I start with a minimal
installation. On the linu lines in these files is:

	base-installer/install-recommends=false
-- 
Evolution as taught in public schools is, like religion,
	based on faith, not based on science.

 Team OS/2 ** Reg. Linux User #211409 ** a11y rocks!

Felix Miata

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#236704

FromRichard Owlett <rowlett@cloud85.net>
Date2021-07-01 15:10 +0200
Message-ID<Cw4C5-7I3-7@gated-at.bofh.it>
In reply to#236681
On 06/30/2021 01:39 PM, Felix Miata wrote:
> Richard Owlett composed on 2021-06-30 08:43 (UTC-0500):
> 
>> I don't recall just when I
>> did it but I had tried including "install-recommends=false" somewhere in
>> the command line. It failed.											
> I start most installations with Grub. Nearly always I start with a minimal
> installation. On the linu lines in these files is:
> 
> 	base-installer/install-recommends=false
> 

I tried that this morning.
I did *NOT* get the desired result.
I got all the "recommended" packages of MATE Desktop Environment.
Just as if I hadn't specified otherwise on the installer command line :{

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#236709

FromBrian <ad44@cityscape.co.uk>
Date2021-07-01 17:30 +0200
Message-ID<Cw6Nz-td-7@gated-at.bofh.it>
In reply to#236704
On Thu 01 Jul 2021 at 08:00:25 -0500, Richard Owlett wrote:

> On 06/30/2021 01:39 PM, Felix Miata wrote:
> > Richard Owlett composed on 2021-06-30 08:43 (UTC-0500):
> > 
> > > I don't recall just when I
> > > did it but I had tried including "install-recommends=false" somewhere in
> > > the command line. It failed.											
> > I start most installations with Grub. Nearly always I start with a minimal
> > installation. On the linu lines in these files is:
> > 
> > 	base-installer/install-recommends=false
> > 
> 
> I tried that this morning.
> I did *NOT* get the desired result.
> I got all the "recommended" packages of MATE Desktop Environment.

Thanks for trying again. For the commandline option above the Installer
Guide says

    By setting this option to false, the package management
    system will be configured to not automatically install
    "Recommends", both during the installation and for the
    installed system.

I installed Gnome using debian-10.8.0-i386-DVD-1.iso and checked the
syslog and /target/var/lib/dpkg/info for what was installed using
D-I. AFAICT, all the recommended packages of task-gnome-desktop are
on the system. So...a D-I bug?

-- 
Brian.

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#236773

FromBrian <ad44@cityscape.co.uk>
Date2021-07-02 19:50 +0200
Message-ID<CwvsC-7lO-13@gated-at.bofh.it>
In reply to#236709
On Thu 01 Jul 2021 at 16:24:12 +0100, Brian wrote:

[..]

> on the system. So...a D-I bug?

Quite possibly, but my involvement with it ends here. Others can
pursue it in a suitable report.

Note that the installation with "recommends=false" still sets up
the system not to install recommended packages. A user really does
need to know what he is doing with the commandline options given
to D-I, whether or not they work.

-- 
Brian.

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#236711

FromFelix Miata <mrmazda@earthlink.net>
Date2021-07-01 18:50 +0200
Message-ID<Cw82Z-19v-3@gated-at.bofh.it>
In reply to#236704
Richard Owlett composed on 2021-07-01 08:00 (UTC-0500):

> Felix Miata wrote:

>> Richard Owlett composed on 2021-06-30 08:43 (UTC-0500):

>>> I don't recall just when I
>>> did it but I had tried including "install-recommends=false" somewhere in
>>> the command line. It failed.											
>> I start most installations with Grub. Nearly always I start with a minimal
>> installation. On the linu lines in these files is:

>> 	base-installer/install-recommends=false

> I tried that this morning.
> I did *NOT* get the desired result.
> I got all the "recommended" packages of MATE Desktop Environment.
> Just as if I hadn't specified otherwise on the installer command line :{
											
Dunno what to tell you. Maybe that's because I always include also

	tasks=standard

I only add a desktop after first boot into the fresh minimal installation.

What other command line options did you use?
-- 
Evolution as taught in public schools is, like religion,
	based on faith, not based on science.

 Team OS/2 ** Reg. Linux User #211409 ** a11y rocks!

Felix Miata

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#236719

FromBrian <ad44@cityscape.co.uk>
Date2021-07-01 22:10 +0200
Message-ID<Cwbax-3gM-1@gated-at.bofh.it>
In reply to#236711
On Thu 01 Jul 2021 at 12:40:05 -0400, Felix Miata wrote:

> Richard Owlett composed on 2021-07-01 08:00 (UTC-0500):
> 
> > Felix Miata wrote:
> 
> >> Richard Owlett composed on 2021-06-30 08:43 (UTC-0500):
> 
> >>> I don't recall just when I
> >>> did it but I had tried including "install-recommends=false" somewhere in
> >>> the command line. It failed.											
> >> I start most installations with Grub. Nearly always I start with a minimal
> >> installation. On the linu lines in these files is:
> 
> >> 	base-installer/install-recommends=false
> 
> > I tried that this morning.
> > I did *NOT* get the desired result.
> > I got all the "recommended" packages of MATE Desktop Environment.
> > Just as if I hadn't specified otherwise on the installer command line :{
> 											
> Dunno what to tell you. Maybe that's because I always include also
> 
> 	tasks=standard

Extremely unlikely. In fact, impossible.

> I only add a desktop after first boot into the fresh minimal installation.

This isn't what Richard Owlet or I are doing. We are not on the same page.

> What other command line options did you use?

Irrelelevant.

-- 
Brian.

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#236721

FromFelix Miata <mrmazda@earthlink.net>
Date2021-07-01 22:40 +0200
Message-ID<CwbDA-3qD-9@gated-at.bofh.it>
In reply to#236719
Brian composed on 2021-07-01 21:05 (UTC+0100):

> On Thu 01 Jul 2021 at 12:40:05 -0400, Felix Miata wrote:
											
>> Dunno what to tell you. Maybe that's because I always include also
 
>> 	tasks=standard
 
> Extremely unlikely. In fact, impossible.
											
Interesting claim. Care to explain further?

The following is from a local LAN backup/template directory, partially redacted:

Inst/Grub # grep tasks=standard *cfg* *lst* | wc -l
345
Inst/Grub # ls -rtgG *.cfg* *.lst* | tail
-rw-r--r-- 1 10552 Nov 11  2020 menu.lst.gx780-boot.19
-rw-r--r-- 1 10023 Dec 13  2020 menu.lst.gx150-boot.35
-rwxrwxr-x 1  7287 Jan 18 02:37 customARA88-02.cfg
-rwxr-xr-x 1  4800 Feb  9 03:42 customAB85m-05.cfg
-rwxr-xr-x 1  4802 Feb 27 21:39 customAB85m-06.cfg
-rw-r--r-- 1 10843 Apr  3 21:32 menu.lst.gx780-boot.20
-rw-r--r-- 1  4877 Apr 19 14:34 menu.lst.gx270-boot.39
-rwxr-xr-x 1  5486 Apr 29 18:40 customAB85m-07.cfg
-rw-r--r-- 1  4637 May  1 20:59 menu.lst.gx78b-boot.23
-rw-rw-r-- 1 18115 Jun  3 04:15 menu.lst.hp945-boot.47
Inst/Grub # grep tasks=standard customAB85m-07.cfg
        linuxefi /deb10/linux showopts --- netcfg/get_hostname=ab85m netcfg/get_domain=ij.net netcfg/disable_autoconfig=true netcfg/get_ipaddress=#.#.#.#/24 netcfg/get_gateway=#.#.#.# netcfg/get_nameservers=8.8.4.4 netcfg/confirm_static=true tasks=standard base-installer/install-recommends=false
        linuxefi /buntu/linux showopts --- netcfg/get_hostname=ab85m netcfg/get_domain=ij.net netcfg/disable_autoconfig=true netcfg/get_ipaddress=#.#.#.#/24 netcfg/get_gateway=#.#.#.# netcfg/get_nameservers=8.8.4.4 netcfg/confirm_static=true tasks=standard base-installer/install-recommends=false
-- 
Evolution as taught in public schools is, like religion,
	based on faith, not based on science.

 Team OS/2 ** Reg. Linux User #211409 ** a11y rocks!

Felix Miata

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#236724

FromBrian <ad44@cityscape.co.uk>
Date2021-07-02 00:00 +0200
Message-ID<CwcT0-459-5@gated-at.bofh.it>
In reply to#236721
On Thu 01 Jul 2021 at 16:34:46 -0400, Felix Miata wrote:

> Brian composed on 2021-07-01 21:05 (UTC+0100):
> 
> > On Thu 01 Jul 2021 at 12:40:05 -0400, Felix Miata wrote:
> 											
> >> Dunno what to tell you. Maybe that's because I always include also
>  
> >> 	tasks=standard
>  
> > Extremely unlikely. In fact, impossible.
> 											
> Interesting claim. Care to explain further?

Not particularly. The standard task does not pull in anything to
account for mine or Richard's observations. In fact, I did not
install it.

Over to you and your imagination.

-- 
Brian.

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#236737

FromRichard Owlett <rowlett@cloud85.net>
Date2021-07-02 12:00 +0200
Message-ID<Cwo7M-2MN-1@gated-at.bofh.it>
In reply to#236724
On 07/01/2021 04:52 PM, Brian wrote:
> On Thu 01 Jul 2021 at 16:34:46 -0400, Felix Miata wrote:
> 
>> Brian composed on 2021-07-01 21:05 (UTC+0100):
>>
>>> On Thu 01 Jul 2021 at 12:40:05 -0400, Felix Miata wrote:
>> 											
>>>> Dunno what to tell you. Maybe that's because I always include also
>>   
>>>> 	tasks=standard
>>   
>>> Extremely unlikely. In fact, impossible.
>> 											
>> Interesting claim. Care to explain further?
> 
> Not particularly. The standard task does not pull in anything to
> account for mine or Richard's observations.

That has not been established.

> In fact, I did not install it.

*BUT* I had made the assumption that his use of "tasks=standard" was 
functionally equivalent to me checking "standard system utilities" in 
the menu.

I suspect that what the installer does when I check mark any menu item 
may not match what I expect.

> 
> Over to you and your imagination.
> 

Courtesy please.

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#236738

FromBrian <ad44@cityscape.co.uk>
Date2021-07-02 12:20 +0200
Message-ID<Cwor7-39G-1@gated-at.bofh.it>
In reply to#236737
On Fri 02 Jul 2021 at 04:55:04 -0500, Richard Owlett wrote:

> On 07/01/2021 04:52 PM, Brian wrote:
> > On Thu 01 Jul 2021 at 16:34:46 -0400, Felix Miata wrote:
> > 
> > > Brian composed on 2021-07-01 21:05 (UTC+0100):
> > > 
> > > > On Thu 01 Jul 2021 at 12:40:05 -0400, Felix Miata wrote:
> > > 											
> > > > > Dunno what to tell you. Maybe that's because I always include also
> > > > > 	tasks=standard
> > > > Extremely unlikely. In fact, impossible.
> > > 											
> > > Interesting claim. Care to explain further?
> > 
> > Not particularly. The standard task does not pull in anything to
> > account for mine or Richard's observations.
> 
> That has not been established.

It has been here.
 
> > In fact, I did not install it.
> 
> *BUT* I had made the assumption that his use of "tasks=standard" was
> functionally equivalent to me checking "standard system utilities" in the
> menu.

It is.
 
> I suspect that what the installer does when I check mark any menu item may
> not match what I expect.

Probably.

> > 
> > Over to you and your imagination.
> > 
> 
> Courtesy please.

Indeed. Apologies, Felix.

-- 
Brian.

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#236780

FromBrian <ad44@cityscape.co.uk>
Date2021-07-02 21:10 +0200
Message-ID<CwwI2-8fr-9@gated-at.bofh.it>
In reply to#236738
On Fri 02 Jul 2021 at 11:09:58 +0100, Brian wrote:

> Indeed. Apologies, Felix.

Having said that, perhaps installing in the same way as two other
users have idicaated would allow you to make a useful contriburion
without having to rely on memory.

-- 
Brian.

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#236720

FromRichard Owlett <rowlett@cloud85.net>
Date2021-07-01 22:20 +0200
Message-ID<Cwbkd-3km-3@gated-at.bofh.it>
In reply to#236711
On 07/01/2021 11:40 AM, Felix Miata wrote:
> Richard Owlett composed on 2021-07-01 08:00 (UTC-0500):
> 
>> Felix Miata wrote:
> 
>>> Richard Owlett composed on 2021-06-30 08:43 (UTC-0500):
> 
>>>> I don't recall just when I
>>>> did it but I had tried including "install-recommends=false" somewhere in
>>>> the command line. It failed.											
>>> I start most installations with Grub. Nearly always I start with a minimal
>>> installation. On the linu lines in these files is:
> 
>>> 	base-installer/install-recommends=false
> 
>> I tried that this morning.
>> I did *NOT* get the desired result.
>> I got all the "recommended" packages of MATE Desktop Environment.
>> Just as if I hadn't specified otherwise on the installer command line :{
> 											
> Dunno what to tell you. Maybe that's because I always include also
> 
> 	tasks=standard
> 
> I only add a desktop after first boot into the fresh minimal installation.
> 
> What other command line options did you use?
> 


None other added to defaults.

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