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Problem with Grub

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  Problem with Grub William Lee Valentine <vsc@lobo.net> - 2021-06-19 18:30 +0200
    Re: Problem with Grub IL Ka <kazakevichilya@gmail.com> - 2021-06-19 18:40 +0200
    Re: Problem with Grub Eduardo M KALINOWSKI <eduardo@kalinowski.com.br> - 2021-06-19 19:10 +0200
    Re: Problem with Grub Douglas McGarrett <dmcgarrett@optonline.net> - 2021-06-19 19:40 +0200
    Re: Problem with Grub Felix Miata <mrmazda@earthlink.net> - 2021-06-19 21:00 +0200
      Re: Problem with Grub David Wright <deblis@lionunicorn.co.uk> - 2021-06-22 18:10 +0200
        Re: Problem with Grub Felix Miata <mrmazda@earthlink.net> - 2021-06-24 06:40 +0200
    Re: Problem with Grub Joe <joe@jretrading.com> - 2021-06-21 23:00 +0200

#236208 — Problem with Grub

I had installed a back version of Debian in a partition on a
500-megahertz computer that was otherwise running Windows 2000 and
MS-DOS.

When I had finished installing Linux, on that machine, Grub wanted to
know whether I wanted it installed in the master boot record. It
reported seeing Windows 2000 and MS-DOS in other bootable partitions. I
agreed. Grub has allowed me to boot any of the three of these when the
BIOS has executed.

I later installed Debian 10.2 in a partition on a 64-bit computer that
was otherwise running Windows 10.

When I had finished installing Linux, Grub wanted to know whether I
wanted it installed on the master boot record. It reported seeing
"Windows Vista" in another bootable partition. I agreed. This time,
however, Grub modified the master boot record to allow only Linux to be
booted. I had to pay to have Windows 10 reinstalled.

I tried again, this time avoiding the master boot record entirely. I
asked that Grub install itself on a 3.5" diskette (in a USB floppy
drive). It did not. It installed itself instead on the master boot
record, again allowing only Linux to be booted. Again I had to pay to
have Windows 10 reinstalled.

I have now another 64-bit computer, running Windows 10, whose BIOS
provides the option of booting from a USB device. If I install Debian
10.2 in a partition on this computer, would I tell Grub to make the
partition bootable? Would Grub instead install itself on the master boot
record anyway, allowing only Linux to be booted? I can not afford to
lose access to Windows 10 again.

Thank you for your assistance.

-- William Lee Valentine


-- 
This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
https://www.avast.com/antivirus

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#236209

[Multipart message — attachments visible in raw view] — view raw

Hello.

You do not need to reinstall Windows to fix boot problems. Download Windows
iso from the Microsoft website along with a special tool to burn it to the
flash drive, boot from it and Windows will repair most booting issues.

Motherboard firmware may act in Legacy/BIOS mode or UEFI mode.

Master boot record is not used in UEFI mode.
Which mode do you use?

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#236210

On 19/06/2021 13:19, William Lee Valentine wrote:
> I have now another 64-bit computer, running Windows 10, whose BIOS
> provides the option of booting from a USB device. If I install Debian
> 10.2 in a partition on this computer, would I tell Grub to make the
> partition bootable? Would Grub instead install itself on the master boot
> record anyway, allowing only Linux to be booted? I can not afford to
> lose access to Windows 10 again.
>
You probably need the os-prober package installed so that other OS's are 
detected and included in the boot menu.


-- 
BOFH excuse #206:

Police are examining all internet packets in the search for a narco-net-trafficker

Eduardo M KALINOWSKI
eduardo@kalinowski.com.br

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#236211

On 6/19/21 12:19 PM, William Lee Valentine wrote:
> I had installed a back version of Debian in a partition on a
> 500-megahertz computer that was otherwise running Windows 2000 and
> MS-DOS.
>
> When I had finished installing Linux, on that machine, Grub wanted to
> know whether I wanted it installed in the master boot record. It
> reported seeing Windows 2000 and MS-DOS in other bootable partitions. I
> agreed. Grub has allowed me to boot any of the three of these when the
> BIOS has executed.
>
> I later installed Debian 10.2 in a partition on a 64-bit computer that
> was otherwise running Windows 10.
>
> When I had finished installing Linux, Grub wanted to know whether I
> wanted it installed on the master boot record. It reported seeing
> "Windows Vista" in another bootable partition. I agreed. This time,
> however, Grub modified the master boot record to allow only Linux to be
> booted. I had to pay to have Windows 10 reinstalled.
>
> I tried again, this time avoiding the master boot record entirely. I
> asked that Grub install itself on a 3.5" diskette (in a USB floppy
> drive). It did not. It installed itself instead on the master boot
> record, again allowing only Linux to be booted. Again I had to pay to
> have Windows 10 reinstalled.
>
> I have now another 64-bit computer, running Windows 10, whose BIOS
> provides the option of booting from a USB device. If I install Debian
> 10.2 in a partition on this computer, would I tell Grub to make the
> partition bootable? Would Grub instead install itself on the master boot
> record anyway, allowing only Linux to be booted? I can not afford to
> lose access to Windows 10 again.
>
> Thank you for your assistance.
>
> -- William Lee Valentine
>
>
I suppose it's kinda late for this advice, but you did not have to pay 
twice for Windows.
You should have just ordered a disk or a USB stick with Windows on it. 
Install it--if
it's a newer computer, it probably has the windows code number in the 
BIOS, but
even if it doesn't, you should be able to install Windows any number of 
times from the
one source device, ON THE SAME COMPUTER. I don't know what you mean by
"paying to have it installed"--- you install it yourself from the 
software you have paid
for ONCE. It is not difficult, only time consuming, and you may have to 
try a couple of
times to get the earliest parts the way you want them. Then install Linux.
(I haven't installed Debian, but I've installed a number of Linux 
systems, both deb and KDE
over Windows, and usually it "just works.")
--doug

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#236213

William Lee Valentine composed on 2021-06-19 10:19 (UTC-0600):

> I had installed a back version of Debian in a partition on a
> 500-megahertz computer that was otherwise running Windows 2000 and
> MS-DOS.

> When I had finished installing Linux, on that machine, Grub wanted to
> know whether I wanted it installed in the master boot record. It
> reported seeing Windows 2000 and MS-DOS in other bootable partitions. I
> agreed. Grub has allowed me to boot any of the three of these when the
> BIOS has executed.

> I later installed Debian 10.2 in a partition on a 64-bit computer that
> was otherwise running Windows 10.

> When I had finished installing Linux, Grub wanted to know whether I
> wanted it installed on the master boot record. It reported seeing
> "Windows Vista" in another bootable partition. I agreed. This time,
> however, Grub modified the master boot record to allow only Linux to be
> booted. I had to pay to have Windows 10 reinstalled.
										
As already mentioned, you needn't have paid. Two unrelated things were likely to
have caused this to happen. Vista and or Win10 could have been installed in MBR
mode, which is compatible with having Grub on the MBR, but the failure could have
been that os-prober was either not installed or not configured to include any menu
option for Windows.

The other likely failure mode could have been that either Windows could have been
installed in UEFI mode, while Debian was installed in legacy (MBR) mode. All
installed operating systems on UEFI PCs need to be installed in the same mode to
permit Grub to be able to boot all of them.

> I tried1 again, this time avoiding the master boot record entirely. I
> asked that Grub install itself on a 3.5" diskette (in a USB floppy
> drive). It did not. It installed itself instead on the master boot
> record, again allowing only Linux to be booted. Again I had to pay to
> have Windows 10 reinstalled.

> I have now another 64-bit computer, running Windows 10, whose BIOS
> provides the option of booting from a USB device. If I install Debian
> 10.2 in a partition on this computer, would I tell Grub to make the
> partition bootable? Would Grub instead install itself on the master boot
> record anyway, allowing only Linux to be booted? I can not afford to
> lose access to Windows 10 again.
										
Newer PCs that come with Windows already installed usually have it installed in
UEFI mode. That eliminates any relevance of the MBR to the boot process. If you
boot the Debian installation media in UEFI mode, then it will install in UEFI
mode. If the installation fails to include os-prober and include a menu option for
Windows, it can be added at any later time. Windows itself need not be touched,
though it needs special configuration (disable fast boot) in order to permit
Debian to be able to access files on Windows filesystems.

I recommend having Debian reuse (use it without reformatting it) the ESP partition
that UEFI Windows uses for booting, rather than creating a separate ESP partition
used only for Debian. The seemingly small size of the Windows ESP is a non-issue
in most cases (boot disk smaller than 16TB). Usually it is 100MB, which is plenty
for Debian times 10 or 20 separate installations.

It's usually necessary or at least desirable on a Windows 10 intended PC to change
a BIOS setting intended to inhibit booting from any operating system other than
Windows. Change it from Windows to Other.
-- 
Evolution as taught in public schools is, like religion,
	based on faith, not based on science.

 Team OS/2 ** Reg. Linux User #211409 ** a11y rocks!

Felix Miata

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#236306

On Sat 19 Jun 2021 at 14:51:53 (-0400), Felix Miata wrote:
> William Lee Valentine composed on 2021-06-19 10:19 (UTC-0600):
> 
> > I had installed a back version of Debian in a partition on a
> > 500-megahertz computer that was otherwise running Windows 2000 and
> > MS-DOS.
> 
> > When I had finished installing Linux, on that machine, Grub wanted to
> > know whether I wanted it installed in the master boot record. It
> > reported seeing Windows 2000 and MS-DOS in other bootable partitions. I
> > agreed. Grub has allowed me to boot any of the three of these when the
> > BIOS has executed.
> 
> > I later installed Debian 10.2 in a partition on a 64-bit computer that
> > was otherwise running Windows 10.
> 
> > When I had finished installing Linux, Grub wanted to know whether I
> > wanted it installed on the master boot record. It reported seeing
> > "Windows Vista" in another bootable partition. I agreed. This time,
> > however, Grub modified the master boot record to allow only Linux to be
> > booted. I had to pay to have Windows 10 reinstalled.
> 	
> As already mentioned, you needn't have paid. Two unrelated things were likely to
> have caused this to happen. Vista and or Win10 could have been installed in MBR
> mode, which is compatible with having Grub on the MBR, but the failure could have
> been that os-prober was either not installed or not configured to include any menu
> option for Windows.

Would I be right in assuming that you could still manually boot
Windows at this point by using Grub's command line, along the
following lines:

GRUB> insmod fat
GRUB> set root=(hd0,gpt1)
GRUB> chainloader (${root})/efi/Microsoft/Boot/bootmgfw.efi
GRUB> boot

(That's the sequence I used when I had to do this myself, and
I originally navigated my way there by means of Grub's TAB
command-completion.)

> The other likely failure mode could have been that either Windows could have been
> installed in UEFI mode, while Debian was installed in legacy (MBR) mode. All
> installed operating systems on UEFI PCs need to be installed in the same mode to
> permit Grub to be able to boot all of them.

Presumably if they had managed to install Debian/BIOS on a
Windows/UEFI computer, then they ought to be able to switch between
these modes at will. That's how I installed Debian on a machine where
my wife still needed to be able to boot Windows. (No chance of being
permitted to alter the booting scheme while that need remained.)

> > I tried1 again, this time avoiding the master boot record entirely. I
> > asked that Grub install itself on a 3.5" diskette (in a USB floppy
> > drive). It did not. It installed itself instead on the master boot
> > record, again allowing only Linux to be booted. Again I had to pay to
> > have Windows 10 reinstalled.
> 
> > I have now another 64-bit computer, running Windows 10, whose BIOS
> > provides the option of booting from a USB device. If I install Debian
> > 10.2 in a partition on this computer, would I tell Grub to make the
> > partition bootable? Would Grub instead install itself on the master boot
> > record anyway, allowing only Linux to be booted? I can not afford to
> > lose access to Windows 10 again.
> 	
> Newer PCs that come with Windows already installed usually have it installed in
> UEFI mode. That eliminates any relevance of the MBR to the boot process. If you
> boot the Debian installation media in UEFI mode, then it will install in UEFI
> mode. If the installation fails to include os-prober and include a menu option for
> Windows, it can be added at any later time. Windows itself need not be touched,
> though it needs special configuration (disable fast boot) in order to permit
> Debian to be able to access files on Windows filesystems.
> 
> I recommend having Debian reuse (use it without reformatting it) the ESP partition
> that UEFI Windows uses for booting, rather than creating a separate ESP partition
> used only for Debian. The seemingly small size of the Windows ESP is a non-issue
> in most cases (boot disk smaller than 16TB). Usually it is 100MB, which is plenty
> for Debian times 10 or 20 separate installations.
> 
> It's usually necessary or at least desirable on a Windows 10 intended PC to change
> a BIOS setting intended to inhibit booting from any operating system other than
> Windows. Change it from Windows to Other.

Cheers,
David.

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#236395

David Wright composed on 2021-06-22 11:00 (UTC-0500):

> On Sat 19 Jun 2021 at 14:51:53 (-0400), Felix Miata wrote:

>> As already mentioned, you needn't have paid. Two unrelated things were likely to
>> have caused this to happen. Vista and or Win10 could have been installed in MBR
>> mode, which is compatible with having Grub on the MBR, but the failure could have
>> been that os-prober was either not installed or not configured to include any menu
>> option for Windows.

> Would I be right in assuming that you could still manually boot
> Windows at this point by using Grub's command line, along the
> following lines:

> GRUB> insmod fat
> GRUB> set root=(hd0,gpt1)
> GRUB> chainloader (${root})/efi/Microsoft/Boot/bootmgfw.efi
> GRUB> boot

> (That's the sequence I used when I had to do this myself, and
> I originally navigated my way there by means of Grub's TAB
> command-completion.)
											
Sure. Grub menus are scripts that call some of the same commands available while
at a Grub shell prompt.

>> The other likely failure mode could have been that either Windows could have been
>> installed in UEFI mode, while Debian was installed in legacy (MBR) mode. All
>> installed operating systems on UEFI PCs need to be installed in the same mode to
>> permit Grub to be able to boot all of them.

> Presumably if they had managed to install Debian/BIOS on a
> Windows/UEFI computer, then they ought to be able to switch between
> these modes at will. That's how I installed Debian on a machine where
> my wife still needed to be able to boot Windows. (No chance of being
> permitted to alter the booting scheme while that need remained.)
											
Technically it's /not/ needed for all to be in same mode, but /when/ not, and
presuming firmware competence, navigating the PC firmware to some extent is
required for each instance of need to boot an OS that has been installed to
another mode. The "need" has to do with using installed software, usually Grub on
x86 compatible hardware on which Gnu/Linux has been installed, to select which OS
to boot. Hence, the "need" applies in a Grub in maximum control context.
-- 
Evolution as taught in public schools is, like religion,
	based on faith, not based on science.

 Team OS/2 ** Reg. Linux User #211409 ** a11y rocks!

Felix Miata

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#236253

On Sat, 19 Jun 2021 10:19:57 -0600
William Lee Valentine <vsc@lobo.net> wrote:


> 
> I later installed Debian 10.2 in a partition on a 64-bit computer that
> was otherwise running Windows 10.
> 
> When I had finished installing Linux, Grub wanted to know whether I
> wanted it installed on the master boot record. It reported seeing
> "Windows Vista" in another bootable partition. I agreed. This time,
> however, Grub modified the master boot record to allow only Linux to
> be booted. I had to pay to have Windows 10 reinstalled.
> 
Apart from other answers to this, anything with Win10 originally
installed (and you don't say this, it might be an upgrade, perhaps from
Vista) will have a recovery partition which can be triggered from a key
during boot. OK, it completely nukes the original installation,
returning the computer to factory-issued, but it costs nothing.

Another point: buster will install dual-boot to a UEFI Win10, but on my
netbook, will not dual-boot afterwards. It may still be possible to
dual-boot using the startup boot menu key, not GRUB, though it isn't on
my machine.

-- 
Joe

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