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Unexplained freezes and crashes, nothing in /var/log/messages

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  Unexplained freezes and crashes, nothing in /var/log/messages Ottavio Caruso <ottavio2006-usenet2012@yahoo.com> - 2021-06-03 09:00 +0200
    Re: Unexplained freezes and crashes, nothing in /var/log/messages Andrei POPESCU <andreimpopescu@gmail.com> - 2021-06-03 09:10 +0200
      Re: Unexplained freezes and crashes, nothing in /var/log/messages Ottavio Caruso <ottavio2006-usenet2012@yahoo.com> - 2021-06-03 10:00 +0200
        Re: Unexplained freezes and crashes, nothing in /var/log/messages Polyna-Maude Racicot-Summerside <debian@polynamaude.com> - 2021-06-03 10:10 +0200
          Re: Unexplained freezes and crashes, nothing in /var/log/messages Marc Auslander <marcausl@gmail.com> - 2021-06-03 17:50 +0200
            Re: Unexplained freezes and crashes, nothing in /var/log/messages Polyna-Maude Racicot-Summerside <debian@polynamaude.com> - 2021-06-03 18:30 +0200
              Re: Unexplained freezes and crashes, nothing in /var/log/messages Tixy <tixy@yxit.co.uk> - 2021-06-03 19:40 +0200
                Re: Unexplained freezes and crashes, nothing in /var/log/messages Stella Ashburne <rewefie@gmx.com> - 2021-06-04 02:10 +0200
                  Re: Unexplained freezes and crashes, nothing in /var/log/messages David Wright <deblis@lionunicorn.co.uk> - 2021-06-04 04:30 +0200
                    Re: Unexplained freezes and crashes, nothing in /var/log/messages Stella Ashburne <rewefie@gmx.com> - 2021-06-04 08:20 +0200
          Re: Unexplained freezes and crashes, nothing in /var/log/messages Ottavio Caruso <ottavio2006-usenet2012@yahoo.com> - 2021-06-03 16:20 +0200
        Re: Unexplained freezes and crashes, nothing in /var/log/messages Andrei POPESCU <andreimpopescu@gmail.com> - 2021-06-03 10:20 +0200
          Re: Unexplained freezes and crashes, nothing in /var/log/messages Polyna-Maude Racicot-Summerside <debian@polynamaude.com> - 2021-06-03 13:00 +0200

#235832 — Unexplained freezes and crashes, nothing in /var/log/messages

Debian Buster here. My laptop is aging and has only 4BG Ram, however 
that should be sufficient for a couple of instances of Firefox (no 
streaming, etc) and an instance of Chromium.

It has happened a few times in the last few days that the system becomes 
irresponsive, the screen is frozen, I can't shut X down nor go into text 
mode. I can't hear any drive activity. The only way out is to shut the 
laptop from the power button and reboot. I then check in 
/var/log/messages and there is absolutely nothing that can give me any hint.

I thought I knew how to troubleshoot a crash but it appears I don't.

Lenovo diagnostic tools can't find anything wrong.

The only possible culprit is maybe tlp [1]? Maybe there is something in 
power management that makes the laptop freeze? Or maybe the RAM is 
gone/going and the diagnostic tools are not picking it up?


[1] https://linrunner.de/tlp/

-- 
Ottavio Caruso

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#235833

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On Jo, 03 iun 21, 07:49:32, Ottavio Caruso wrote:
> Debian Buster here. My laptop is aging and has only 4BG Ram, however that
> should be sufficient for a couple of instances of Firefox (no streaming,
> etc) and an instance of Chromium.
> 
> It has happened a few times in the last few days that the system becomes
> irresponsive, the screen is frozen, I can't shut X down nor go into text
> mode. I can't hear any drive activity. 

Does this imply all drives are rotating?

Anyway, more information on the hardware might help.

Kind regards,
Andrei
-- 
http://wiki.debian.org/FAQsFromDebianUser

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#235834

On 03/06/2021 08:04, Andrei POPESCU wrote:
> On Jo, 03 iun 21, 07:49:32, Ottavio Caruso wrote:
>> Debian Buster here. My laptop is aging and has only 4BG Ram, however that
>> should be sufficient for a couple of instances of Firefox (no streaming,
>> etc) and an instance of Chromium.
>>
>> It has happened a few times in the last few days that the system becomes
>> irresponsive, the screen is frozen, I can't shut X down nor go into text
>> mode. I can't hear any drive activity.
> 
> Does this imply all drives are rotating?
> 
> Anyway, more information on the hardware might help.


$ sudo inxi -FzCDMm
System:
   Host: e130 Kernel: 4.19.0-8-amd64 x86_64 bits: 64 Desktop: Cinnamon 
4.4.8
   Distro: LMDE 4 Debbie
Machine:
   Type: Laptop System: LENOVO product: 33588QG v: ThinkPad Edge E130
   serial: <filter>
   Mobo: LENOVO model: 33588QG v: Win8 Pro DPK TPG serial: <filter>
   UEFI: LENOVO v: H4ET98WW (2.58 ) date: 08/24/2016
Battery:
   ID-1: BAT1 charge: 45.1 Wh condition: 58.2/62.2 Wh (94%)
Memory:
   RAM: total: 3.70 GiB used: 1.77 GiB (47.7%)
   Array-1: capacity: 16 GiB slots: 2 EC: None
   Device-1: ChannelA-DIMM0 size: 2 GiB speed: 1067 MT/s
   Device-2: ChannelB-DIMM0 size: 2 GiB speed: 1067 MT/s
CPU:
   Topology: Dual Core model: Intel Core i3-3217U bits: 64 type: MT MCP
   L2 cache: 3072 KiB
   Speed: 951 MHz min/max: 800/1800 MHz Core speeds (MHz): 1: 1229 2: 997
   3: 1139 4: 1385
Graphics:
   Device-1: Intel 3rd Gen Core processor Graphics driver: i915 v: kernel
   Display: server: X.Org 1.20.4 driver: modesetting unloaded: fbdev,vesa
   resolution: 1366x768~60Hz
   OpenGL: renderer: Mesa DRI Intel Ivybridge Mobile v: 4.2 Mesa 18.3.6
Audio:
   Device-1: Intel 7 Series/C216 Family High Definition Audio
   driver: snd_hda_intel
   Sound Server: ALSA v: k4.19.0-8-amd64
Network:
   Device-1: Intel Centrino Wireless-N 2230 driver: iwlwifi
   IF: wlp3s0 state: up mac: <filter>
   Device-2: Realtek RTL8111/8168/8411 PCI Express Gigabit Ethernet
   driver: r8169
   IF: enp9s0 state: down mac: <filter>
   Device-3: Ericsson Business Mobile Networks BV H5321 gw Mobile Broadband
   Driver
   type: USB driver: cdc_acm,cdc_ncm,cdc_wdm
   IF: wwp0s29u1u6i6 state: down mac: <filter>
Drives:
   Local Storage: total: 465.76 GiB used: 206.22 GiB (44.3%)
   ID-1: /dev/sda vendor: Hitachi model: HTS725050A7E630 size: 465.76 GiB
Partition:
   ID-1: / size: 47.81 GiB used: 13.96 GiB (29.2%) fs: ext4 dev: /dev/sda5
   ID-2: /home size: 46.45 GiB used: 24.20 GiB (52.1%) fs: ext4
   dev: /dev/sda8
   ID-3: swap-1 size: 8.08 GiB used: 245.6 MiB (3.0%) fs: swap dev: 
/dev/sda7
Sensors:
   System Temperatures: cpu: 53.0 C mobo: 0.0 C
   Fan Speeds (RPM): cpu: 600
Info:
   Processes: 200 Uptime: 1d 10h 29m Shell: bash inxi: 3.0.32



-- 
Ottavio Caruso

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#235835

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When you say "it freeze".
How long have you waited before "pulling the plug" or considering other
way of powering off ?

Have you checked the temperature of your CPU after leaving it running
for a while. Laptop end up with lot of dirt inside and this is not good
for thermal conductivity. So they tend to heat up when they get older
(and not cleaned).

If your system freeze it may be some problem caused by overheating. On
the long run, capacitor get tricky and solder may become problematic.

But first, is this happening only when you have been using the system
for a while ? Because this could point to a problem of overheating.

What are asking here anyway is pretty tough. As we don't have your
hardware in front of us.

On 2021-06-03 3:51 a.m., Ottavio Caruso wrote:
> On 03/06/2021 08:04, Andrei POPESCU wrote:
>> On Jo, 03 iun 21, 07:49:32, Ottavio Caruso wrote:
>>> Debian Buster here. My laptop is aging and has only 4BG Ram, however
>>> that
>>> should be sufficient for a couple of instances of Firefox (no streaming,
>>> etc) and an instance of Chromium.
>>>
>>> It has happened a few times in the last few days that the system becomes
>>> irresponsive, the screen is frozen, I can't shut X down nor go into text
>>> mode. I can't hear any drive activity.
>>
>> Does this imply all drives are rotating?
>>
>> Anyway, more information on the hardware might help.
> 
> 
> $ sudo inxi -FzCDMm
> System:
>  Host: e130 Kernel: 4.19.0-8-amd64 x86_64 bits: 64 Desktop: Cinnamon 4.4.8
>  Distro: LMDE 4 Debbie
> Machine:
>  Type: Laptop System: LENOVO product: 33588QG v: ThinkPad Edge E130
>  serial: <filter>
>  Mobo: LENOVO model: 33588QG v: Win8 Pro DPK TPG serial: <filter>
>  UEFI: LENOVO v: H4ET98WW (2.58 ) date: 08/24/2016
> Battery:
>  ID-1: BAT1 charge: 45.1 Wh condition: 58.2/62.2 Wh (94%)
> Memory:
>  RAM: total: 3.70 GiB used: 1.77 GiB (47.7%)
>  Array-1: capacity: 16 GiB slots: 2 EC: None
>  Device-1: ChannelA-DIMM0 size: 2 GiB speed: 1067 MT/s
>  Device-2: ChannelB-DIMM0 size: 2 GiB speed: 1067 MT/s
> CPU:
>  Topology: Dual Core model: Intel Core i3-3217U bits: 64 type: MT MCP
>  L2 cache: 3072 KiB
>  Speed: 951 MHz min/max: 800/1800 MHz Core speeds (MHz): 1: 1229 2: 997
>  3: 1139 4: 1385
> Graphics:
>  Device-1: Intel 3rd Gen Core processor Graphics driver: i915 v: kernel
>  Display: server: X.Org 1.20.4 driver: modesetting unloaded: fbdev,vesa
>  resolution: 1366x768~60Hz
>  OpenGL: renderer: Mesa DRI Intel Ivybridge Mobile v: 4.2 Mesa 18.3.6
> Audio:
>  Device-1: Intel 7 Series/C216 Family High Definition Audio
>  driver: snd_hda_intel
>  Sound Server: ALSA v: k4.19.0-8-amd64
> Network:
>  Device-1: Intel Centrino Wireless-N 2230 driver: iwlwifi
>  IF: wlp3s0 state: up mac: <filter>
>  Device-2: Realtek RTL8111/8168/8411 PCI Express Gigabit Ethernet
>  driver: r8169
>  IF: enp9s0 state: down mac: <filter>
>  Device-3: Ericsson Business Mobile Networks BV H5321 gw Mobile Broadband
>  Driver
>  type: USB driver: cdc_acm,cdc_ncm,cdc_wdm
>  IF: wwp0s29u1u6i6 state: down mac: <filter>
> Drives:
>  Local Storage: total: 465.76 GiB used: 206.22 GiB (44.3%)
>  ID-1: /dev/sda vendor: Hitachi model: HTS725050A7E630 size: 465.76 GiB
> Partition:
>  ID-1: / size: 47.81 GiB used: 13.96 GiB (29.2%) fs: ext4 dev: /dev/sda5
>  ID-2: /home size: 46.45 GiB used: 24.20 GiB (52.1%) fs: ext4
>  dev: /dev/sda8
>  ID-3: swap-1 size: 8.08 GiB used: 245.6 MiB (3.0%) fs: swap dev: /dev/sda7
> Sensors:
>  System Temperatures: cpu: 53.0 C mobo: 0.0 C
>  Fan Speeds (RPM): cpu: 600
> Info:
>  Processes: 200 Uptime: 1d 10h 29m Shell: bash inxi: 3.0.32
> 
> 
> 

-- 
Polyna-Maude R.-Summerside
-Be smart, Be wise, Support opensource development

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#235840

On 6/3/2021 10:20 AM, Ottavio Caruso wrote:
> On 03/06/2021 09:09, Polyna-Maude Racicot-Summerside wrote:
> I check the temperature regularly with sensors and it's usually between 
> 42 and 52 C.
> 
> 
> Problem is I can't check the temperature while it's freezing.
> 
> 
You might run a background job that keeps writing the sensors to a file, 
say every 5 minutes, although a really don't know how quickly the 
temperature can change.

That said, this sounds like a long shot to me.

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#235843

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Hi,

On 2021-06-03 11:27 a.m., Marc Auslander wrote:
> On 6/3/2021 10:20 AM, Ottavio Caruso wrote:
>> On 03/06/2021 09:09, Polyna-Maude Racicot-Summerside wrote:
>> I check the temperature regularly with sensors and it's usually
>> between 42 and 52 C.
>>
>>
>> Problem is I can't check the temperature while it's freezing.
>>
>>
> You might run a background job that keeps writing the sensors to a file,
> say every 5 minutes, although a really don't know how quickly the
> temperature can change.
> 
> That said, this sounds like a long shot to me.
> 
Temperature doesn't change in a matter of one or two minutes, unless you
have a real heat dissipation problem and you'll see in this case the
changes from the time you power it on the temperature will rise fast.
-- 
Polyna-Maude R.-Summerside
-Be smart, Be wise, Support opensource development

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#235845

On Thu, 2021-06-03 at 12:19 -0400, Polyna-Maude Racicot-Summerside wrote:
> Hi,
> 
> On 2021-06-03 11:27 a.m., Marc Auslander wrote:
> > On 6/3/2021 10:20 AM, Ottavio Caruso wrote:
> > > On 03/06/2021 09:09, Polyna-Maude Racicot-Summerside wrote:
> > > I check the temperature regularly with sensors and it's usually
> > > between 42 and 52 C.
> > > 
> > > Problem is I can't check the temperature while it's freezing.
> > > 
> > > You might run a background job that keeps writing the sensors to a file,
> > say every 5 minutes, although a really don't know how quickly the
> > temperature can change.
> > 
> > That said, this sounds like a long shot to me.
> > 
> Temperature doesn't change in a matter of one or two minutes, unless you
> have a real heat dissipation problem and you'll see in this case the
> changes from the time you power it on the temperature will rise fast.

Only if workload stays the same and the system has reached equilibrium.
Temperature can change in a matter of seconds if workload suddenly
changes.

$ cat /sys/class/thermal/thermal_zone2/type
x86_pkg_temp
$ cat /sys/class/thermal/thermal_zone2/temp
47000
$ while : ; do : ; done &
[1] 4739
$ cat /sys/class/thermal/thermal_zone2/temp
63000
$ kill 4739
$ cat /sys/class/thermal/thermal_zone2/temp
49000

That's 15C change in about second on this laptop. My desktop will go
from drawing 17W from the mains when idle, to 160W when maxing out all
8 CPUs and temperature will jump about from 40C to 95C in a few
seconds. 

-- 
Tixy

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#235859

Hi David

> Sent: Friday, June 04, 2021 at 5:12 AM
> From: "David Wright" <deblis@lionunicorn.co.uk>
> To: debian-user@lists.debian.org
> Subject: Re: Unexplained freezes and crashes, nothing in /var/log/messages
>
>
> My own monitoring program logs the temperature (and battery)
> every six seconds.
>
I'm curious: what's the name of your monitoring program? Is it available for download and installation from Debian's official repos?

Stella

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#235864

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On Fri 04 Jun 2021 at 02:05:52 (+0200), Stella Ashburne wrote:
> 
> > Sent: Friday, June 04, 2021 at 5:12 AM
> > From: "David Wright" <deblis@lionunicorn.co.uk>
> >
> > My own monitoring program logs the temperature (and battery)
> > every six seconds.
> >
> I'm curious: what's the name of your monitoring program? Is it available for download and installation from Debian's official repos?

It's just a home-grown program that's started from .xsession.
It sets the X background colour in a loop, with excessive
temperatures taking priority over power indications.

It used to be written in shell, but I converted it to python
some years ago when I found that reading the files in
/sys/class/ could fail (3.x kernels). Python's try…except is
easier for me to code than shell's trap mechanism.

I wrote it originally for monitoring whether the AC power
was connected (the brick was unreliable), and the state of
the battery. Temperature came later, for the Dell laptop
I mentioned. That laptop was scrapped last year, and
ironically the Acer laptop it now runs on has a completely
broken power controller (it only runs with AC power).

Woefully underpowered to run even one browser, this Acer
fortunately has a good fan, so it doesn't run too hot. But
it does suffer from symptoms that are somewhat similar to
the OP's—sometimes you have to wait a minute or two (and
avoid touching the touchpad) for things to catch up. But
you can tell it's merely swapping heavily, because the
disk-active light stays lit. (Firefox on buster in ½GB
at 1.5GHz, encrypted /home and 1GB swap.)

Cheers,
David.

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#235867

Hi David

> Sent: Friday, June 04, 2021 at 10:27 AM
> From: "David Wright" <deblis@lionunicorn.co.uk>
> To: debian-user@lists.debian.org
> Subject: Re: Unexplained freezes and crashes, nothing in /var/log/messages
>
> It's just a home-grown program that's started from .xsession.
> It sets the X background colour in a loop, with excessive
> temperatures taking priority over power indications.
>
Is your program proprietary? If it isn't, would you like to share it with me?

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#235841

On 03/06/2021 09:09, Polyna-Maude Racicot-Summerside wrote:
> When you say "it freeze".
> How long have you waited before "pulling the plug"


I left it on for 30 minutes or so before giving up

> or considering other
> way of powering off ?

Such as?

> 
> Have you checked the temperature of your CPU after leaving it running
> for a while. Laptop end up with lot of dirt inside and this is not good
> for thermal conductivity. So they tend to heat up when they get older
> (and not cleaned).


I check the temperature regularly with sensors and it's usually between 
42 and 52 C.

> 
> If your system freeze it may be some problem caused by overheating. On
> the long run, capacitor get tricky and solder may become problematic.
> 
> But first, is this happening only when you have been using the system
> for a while ? Because this could point to a problem of overheating.

Problem is I can't check the temperature while it's freezing.


-- 
Ottavio Caruso

A: Because it messes up the order in which people normally read text.
Q: Why is top-posting such a bad thing?
A: Top-posting.
Q: What is the most annoying thing in e-mail?

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#235836

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On Jo, 03 iun 21, 08:51:06, Ottavio Caruso wrote:
> 
> $ sudo inxi -FzCDMm
> System:
>   Host: e130 Kernel: 4.19.0-8-amd64 x86_64 bits: 64 Desktop: Cinnamon 4.4.8
>   Distro: LMDE 4 Debbie

Can you reproduce the issue on Debian?

Do CapsLock / NumLed or similar LEDs react (provided there are any)?

Can you ssh into the system, or does it even react to pings from another 
machine?

> Drives:
>   Local Storage: total: 465.76 GiB used: 206.22 GiB (44.3%)
>   ID-1: /dev/sda vendor: Hitachi model: HTS725050A7E630 size: 465.76 
>   GiB

You might want to do a thorough check of the HDD.

Even if it turns out its ok, provided the rest of the hardware is still 
good, you should consider replacing the HDD with an SSD. The speed 
increase will be significant.

Maxing out the RAM (if any changes are possible) is also a good idea.

Kind regards,
Andrei
-- 
http://wiki.debian.org/FAQsFromDebianUser

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#235837

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Hi,

On 2021-06-03 4:17 a.m., Andrei POPESCU wrote:
> On Jo, 03 iun 21, 08:51:06, Ottavio Caruso wrote:
>>
>> $ sudo inxi -FzCDMm
>> System:
>>   Host: e130 Kernel: 4.19.0-8-amd64 x86_64 bits: 64 Desktop: Cinnamon 4.4.8
>>   Distro: LMDE 4 Debbie
> 
> Can you reproduce the issue on Debian?
> 
> Do CapsLock / NumLed or similar LEDs react (provided there are any)?
> 
> Can you ssh into the system, or does it even react to pings from another 
> machine?
> 
>> Drives:
>>   Local Storage: total: 465.76 GiB used: 206.22 GiB (44.3%)
>>   ID-1: /dev/sda vendor: Hitachi model: HTS725050A7E630 size: 465.76 
>>   GiB
> 
> You might want to do a thorough check of the HDD.
> 
> Even if it turns out its ok, provided the rest of the hardware is still 

> good, you should consider replacing the HDD with an SSD. The speed 
> increase will be significant.
> 
> Maxing out the RAM (if any changes are possible) is also a good idea.
> 
Sorry ! But this is irrelevant... When you have a broken piece of
hardware (or faultry), you first find what's not going good before
investing funds into this machine...
You are telling this guy, go out and invest on something that maybe faulty.
So go buys RAM (that may not be easily transferred) for a laptop that
maybe the motherboard is starting to be faulty, like problem with
capacitors or cold solder.

The RAM and HDD are relevant if and only if, what he describe as a
freezes / crashes ain't one but is more of a huge lag with endless waiting.

> Kind regards,
> Andrei
> 

-- 
Polyna-Maude R.-Summerside
-Be smart, Be wise, Support opensource development

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