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Debian-friendly laptop

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  Debian-friendly laptop George Shuklin <george.shuklin@gmail.com> - 2021-05-18 21:50 +0200
    Re: Debian-friendly laptop Polyna-Maude Racicot-Summerside <debian@polynamaude.com> - 2021-05-18 22:10 +0200
      Re: Debian-friendly laptop George Shuklin <george.shuklin@gmail.com> - 2021-05-19 00:30 +0200
        Re: Debian-friendly laptop Polyna-Maude Racicot-Summerside <debian@polynamaude.com> - 2021-05-19 02:30 +0200
      Re: Debian-friendly laptop <tomas@tuxteam.de> - 2021-05-19 09:40 +0200
        Re: Debian-friendly laptop Celejar <celejar@gmail.com> - 2021-05-19 14:10 +0200
          Re: Debian-friendly laptop George Shuklin <george.shuklin@gmail.com> - 2021-05-19 16:20 +0200
          Re: Debian-friendly laptop <tomas@tuxteam.de> - 2021-05-19 15:30 +0200
          Re: Debian-friendly laptop Stefan Monnier <monnier@iro.umontreal.ca> - 2021-05-20 04:50 +0200
            Re: Debian-friendly laptop Gene Heskett <gheskett@shentel.net> - 2021-05-20 06:00 +0200
              Re: Debian-friendly laptop Stefan Monnier <monnier@iro.umontreal.ca> - 2021-05-20 07:10 +0200
                Re: Debian-friendly laptop Celejar <celejar@gmail.com> - 2021-05-20 14:10 +0200
              Re: Debian-friendly laptop "Andrew M.A. Cater" <amacater@einval.com> - 2021-05-20 20:00 +0200
          Re: Debian-friendly laptop rhkramer@gmail.com - 2021-05-20 14:00 +0200
            Re: Debian-friendly laptop Celejar <celejar@gmail.com> - 2021-05-20 17:10 +0200
              Re: Debian-friendly laptop mj <lists@merit.unu.edu> - 2021-05-20 20:50 +0200
                Re: Debian-friendly laptop Polyna-Maude Racicot-Summerside <debian@polynamaude.com> - 2021-05-20 23:30 +0200
        Re: Debian-friendly laptop Polyna-Maude Racicot-Summerside <debian@polynamaude.com> - 2021-05-19 16:40 +0200
    Re: Debian-friendly laptop Andrei POPESCU <andreimpopescu@gmail.com> - 2021-05-19 09:10 +0200
      Re: Debian-friendly laptop <tomas@tuxteam.de> - 2021-05-19 09:50 +0200
        Re: Debian-friendly laptop Celejar <celejar@gmail.com> - 2021-05-19 14:00 +0200
          Re: Debian-friendly laptop Andrei POPESCU <andreimpopescu@gmail.com> - 2021-05-19 16:30 +0200
            Re: Debian-friendly laptop Celejar <celejar@gmail.com> - 2021-05-19 17:10 +0200
              Re: Debian-friendly laptop Andrei POPESCU <andreimpopescu@gmail.com> - 2021-05-19 17:40 +0200
                Re: Debian-friendly laptop Celejar <celejar@gmail.com> - 2021-05-19 18:10 +0200
                Re: Debian-friendly laptop Martin Smith <tech@smithproductions.co.uk> - 2021-05-19 20:00 +0200
                  Re: Debian-friendly laptop "James B" <portoteacher80@fastmail.com> - 2021-05-19 21:50 +0200
    Re: Debian-friendly laptop George Shuklin <george.shuklin@gmail.com> - 2021-05-19 19:50 +0200
      Re: Debian-friendly laptop Joel Roth <joelz@pobox.com> - 2021-05-19 23:20 +0200

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#235362

On Wed, 19 May 2021 09:41:39 +0200
<tomas@tuxteam.de> wrote:

> On Wed, May 19, 2021 at 10:09:12AM +0300, Andrei POPESCU wrote:
> > On Ma, 18 mai 21, 22:49:31, George Shuklin wrote:
> > > I'm trying to choose between Purism and System76, and, as far as I
> > > understand they both supports linux very well, but..
> > > 
> > > Which one is better? Or, may me I missed and there are other coreboot (no
> > > ME) vendors with high-grade Linux support?
> > > 
> > > I have a negative experience with XPS13 DE (which is shipped with Ubuntu,
> > > but even with all tweaks and random sleeps they added to vanilla Ubuntu, is
> > > far from perfect in Linux support)...
> >  
> > Thinkpads are generally very good quality (even if expensive) and have 
> > traditionally been rather well supported by Linux.
> 
> That's what I do whenever the "nice" alternatives mentioned above are
> out of my reach (as is currently the case): refurbished Thinkpads.
> They are robust enough to support a second life, and installation is
> pretty smooth most of the time.

+1

My main machine for the past five years has been a W550s, purchased
refurbished from eBay. I've replaced some of the RAM (one of
the DIMMS was / went bad) and the keyboard (a bunch of keys failed), and
I have purchased a replacement SSD (the current one is out of space)
that I'm going to install when I get a chance, but on the whole, the
machine is still going fairly strong (although the processor is anemic
and I really could use 16GB of ram rather than the current 4+4).

Would I have had the bad RAM on a new machine? Would I at least have
caught it while still under warranty? Would the keyboard have failed?
Who knows ...

My previous main machine had been a T60. I gave that up when its
keyboard failed. I know that one of the main selling points of
ThinkPads is their keyboards: they are certainly very good, but
apparently they don't last forever ;)

Celejar

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#235372

[Multipart message — attachments visible in raw view] — view raw

On Mi, 19 mai 21, 07:58:05, Celejar wrote:
> 
> My previous main machine had been a T60. I gave that up when its
> keyboard failed. I know that one of the main selling points of
> ThinkPads is their keyboards: they are certainly very good, but
> apparently they don't last forever ;)

At least they are easy to replace, or for other components (e.g. CPU 
fan) the manual with detailed explanations is readily available (been 
there, done that).

Kind regards,
Andrei
-- 
http://wiki.debian.org/FAQsFromDebianUser

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#235374

On Wed, 19 May 2021 17:27:16 +0300
Andrei POPESCU <andreimpopescu@gmail.com> wrote:

> On Mi, 19 mai 21, 07:58:05, Celejar wrote:
> > 
> > My previous main machine had been a T60. I gave that up when its
> > keyboard failed. I know that one of the main selling points of
> > ThinkPads is their keyboards: they are certainly very good, but
> > apparently they don't last forever ;)
> 
> At least they are easy to replace, or for other components (e.g. CPU 
> fan) the manual with detailed explanations is readily available (been 
> there, done that).

True, although "easy" is debatable. I suppose that if I could do it, it
must be easy :/, and I'm sure it's easier than with other machines.

Been there, done that, as well.

Celejar

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#235377

[Multipart message — attachments visible in raw view] — view raw

On Mi, 19 mai 21, 11:06:44, Celejar wrote:
> On Wed, 19 May 2021 17:27:16 +0300
> Andrei POPESCU <andreimpopescu@gmail.com> wrote:
> 
> > On Mi, 19 mai 21, 07:58:05, Celejar wrote:
> > > 
> > > My previous main machine had been a T60. I gave that up when its
> > > keyboard failed. I know that one of the main selling points of
> > > ThinkPads is their keyboards: they are certainly very good, but
> > > apparently they don't last forever ;)
> > 
> > At least they are easy to replace, or for other components (e.g. CPU 
> > fan) the manual with detailed explanations is readily available (been 
> > there, done that).
> 
> True, although "easy" is debatable. I suppose that if I could do it, it
> must be easy :/, and I'm sure it's easier than with other machines.

Let me qualify that then: at least to replace the CPU fan assembly for 
my late R61 all I needed was a suitable screwdriver, basic dexterity, 
some other means to display the manual and patience.

According to the instructions one should be using new screws every time, 
but reusing them once or twice is possible, unless the heads are 
destroyed in the process.

There are probably tear-downs available on Youtube for those who would 
like to see that for themselves.

Hope this helps,
Andrei
-- 
http://wiki.debian.org/FAQsFromDebianUser

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#235382

On Wed, 19 May 2021 18:32:56 +0300
Andrei POPESCU <andreimpopescu@gmail.com> wrote:

> On Mi, 19 mai 21, 11:06:44, Celejar wrote:
> > On Wed, 19 May 2021 17:27:16 +0300
> > Andrei POPESCU <andreimpopescu@gmail.com> wrote:
> > 
> > > On Mi, 19 mai 21, 07:58:05, Celejar wrote:
> > > > 
> > > > My previous main machine had been a T60. I gave that up when its
> > > > keyboard failed. I know that one of the main selling points of
> > > > ThinkPads is their keyboards: they are certainly very good, but
> > > > apparently they don't last forever ;)
> > > 
> > > At least they are easy to replace, or for other components (e.g. CPU 
> > > fan) the manual with detailed explanations is readily available (been 
> > > there, done that).
> > 
> > True, although "easy" is debatable. I suppose that if I could do it, it
> > must be easy :/, and I'm sure it's easier than with other machines.
> 
> Let me qualify that then: at least to replace the CPU fan assembly for 
> my late R61 all I needed was a suitable screwdriver, basic dexterity, 
> some other means to display the manual and patience.
> 
> According to the instructions one should be using new screws every time, 
> but reusing them once or twice is possible, unless the heads are 
> destroyed in the process.
> 
> There are probably tear-downs available on Youtube for those who would 
> like to see that for themselves.

I was referring to replacing the keyboard, and I suppose the
requirements were similar: suitable (commonly available) screwdriver,
some dexterity, a means of displang the manual, definitely patience
(and time). But it was also a bit difficult to figure out which things
had to be pushed where, and how hard. (And deciphering FRUs and other
part IDs and figuring out exactly which versions were compatible with
my machine wasn't the easiest thing in the world, either. But I suppose
that's still worlds better than the non-existence of field-replacable
parts in the first place ;))

The first try didn't work - I panicked when the machine wouldn't accept
my LUKS passphrase on boot. It turns out that I hadn't pushed
something in far enough, or something like that, so although some of
the keys were working, some weren't. (I really hate the fact that
there's often no option to get the system to display entered passwords
- I know we've discussed this in the past, but I really don't
understand why it isn't at least an option that can be set for
troubleshooting.)

Celejar

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#235397

On 19/05/2021 16:32, Andrei POPESCU wrote:
> On Mi, 19 mai 21, 11:06:44, Celejar wrote:
>> On Wed, 19 May 2021 17:27:16 +0300
>> Andrei POPESCU <andreimpopescu@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> On Mi, 19 mai 21, 07:58:05, Celejar wrote:
>>>>
>>>> My previous main machine had been a T60. I gave that up when its
>>>> keyboard failed. I know that one of the main selling points of
>>>> ThinkPads is their keyboards: they are certainly very good, but
>>>> apparently they don't last forever ;)
>>>
>>> At least they are easy to replace, or for other components (e.g. CPU
>>> fan) the manual with detailed explanations is readily available (been
>>> there, done that).
>>
>> True, although "easy" is debatable. I suppose that if I could do it, it
>> must be easy :/, and I'm sure it's easier than with other machines.
> 
> Let me qualify that then: at least to replace the CPU fan assembly for
> my late R61 all I needed was a suitable screwdriver, basic dexterity,
> some other means to display the manual and patience.
> 
> According to the instructions one should be using new screws every time,
> but reusing them once or twice is possible, unless the heads are
> destroyed in the process.
> 
> There are probably tear-downs available on Youtube for those who would
> like to see that for themselves.

ifixit.com is highly recommended for teardowns of lots of machines 
especially Lenovo, I have used it myself several times


-- 
Martin

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#235413

I'd recommend a HP ProBook.I have the 15" 6570b from 2012/13 and it's a great machine.A bit chunky now compared to new generation machines but still a nice looking laptop and very solid and well built, with a good screen.Best thing about it is that the bottom panel slides off with no screws to remove at all when you push aside the two thumb sliders - then, everything upgradeable is exposed. What a brilliant idea - why don't more manufacturers do that? The business docks for these are fairly common on the *bay - I got one for about £40 and it's so useful.


-- 
  James B
  portoteacher80@fastmail.com

Em Qua, 19 Mai ʼ21, às 18:46, Martin Smith escreveu:
> On 19/05/2021 16:32, Andrei POPESCU wrote:
> > On Mi, 19 mai 21, 11:06:44, Celejar wrote:
> >> On Wed, 19 May 2021 17:27:16 +0300
> >> Andrei POPESCU <andreimpopescu@gmail.com> wrote:
> >>
> >>> On Mi, 19 mai 21, 07:58:05, Celejar wrote:
> >>>>
> >>>> My previous main machine had been a T60. I gave that up when its
> >>>> keyboard failed. I know that one of the main selling points of
> >>>> ThinkPads is their keyboards: they are certainly very good, but
> >>>> apparently they don't last forever ;)
> >>>
> >>> At least they are easy to replace, or for other components (e.g. CPU
> >>> fan) the manual with detailed explanations is readily available (been
> >>> there, done that).
> >>
> >> True, although "easy" is debatable. I suppose that if I could do it, it
> >> must be easy :/, and I'm sure it's easier than with other machines.
> > 
> > Let me qualify that then: at least to replace the CPU fan assembly for
> > my late R61 all I needed was a suitable screwdriver, basic dexterity,
> > some other means to display the manual and patience.
> > 
> > According to the instructions one should be using new screws every time,
> > but reusing them once or twice is possible, unless the heads are
> > destroyed in the process.
> > 
> > There are probably tear-downs available on Youtube for those who would
> > like to see that for themselves.
> 
> ifixit.com is highly recommended for teardowns of lots of machines 
> especially Lenovo, I have used it myself several times
> 
> 
> -- 
> Martin
> 
> 

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#235396

On 5/18/21 10:49 PM, George Shuklin wrote:
> I'm trying to choose between Purism and System76, and, as far as I 
> understand they both supports linux very well, but..
>
> Which one is better? Or, may me I missed and there are other coreboot 
> (no ME) vendors with high-grade Linux support?
>
> I have a negative experience with XPS13 DE (which is shipped with 
> Ubuntu, but even with all tweaks and random sleeps they added to 
> vanilla Ubuntu, is far from perfect in Linux support)...

I asked Purism support the main question and got the main answer: They 
have a backlog of deliveries and they would be able to ship a new order 
within 2 months (June-July for order 'right now' to be precise).
That leave System76. But they have only models with nvidia available, 
and we all knows how open are nvidia blobs.

Now, that's become a problem...

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#235416

George Shuklin wrote:
> On 5/18/21 10:49 PM, George Shuklin wrote:
> > I'm trying to choose between Purism and System76, and, as far as I
> > understand they both supports linux very well, but..

> That leave System76. But they have only models with nvidia available, and we
> all knows how open are nvidia blobs.
> 

I wonder what support you need. Many others have mentioned
that Thinkpads are quite linux friendly. A great resource,
if you're considering that direction is
https://www.thinkwiki.org/wiki/ThinkWiki .

I looked at these commercially supported laptops years ago,
found that they didn't offer me much over community
supported Thinkpads. 

-- 
Joel Roth

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