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Debian-friendly laptop

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  Debian-friendly laptop George Shuklin <george.shuklin@gmail.com> - 2021-05-18 21:50 +0200
    Re: Debian-friendly laptop Polyna-Maude Racicot-Summerside <debian@polynamaude.com> - 2021-05-18 22:10 +0200
      Re: Debian-friendly laptop George Shuklin <george.shuklin@gmail.com> - 2021-05-19 00:30 +0200
        Re: Debian-friendly laptop Polyna-Maude Racicot-Summerside <debian@polynamaude.com> - 2021-05-19 02:30 +0200
      Re: Debian-friendly laptop <tomas@tuxteam.de> - 2021-05-19 09:40 +0200
        Re: Debian-friendly laptop Celejar <celejar@gmail.com> - 2021-05-19 14:10 +0200
          Re: Debian-friendly laptop George Shuklin <george.shuklin@gmail.com> - 2021-05-19 16:20 +0200
          Re: Debian-friendly laptop <tomas@tuxteam.de> - 2021-05-19 15:30 +0200
          Re: Debian-friendly laptop Stefan Monnier <monnier@iro.umontreal.ca> - 2021-05-20 04:50 +0200
            Re: Debian-friendly laptop Gene Heskett <gheskett@shentel.net> - 2021-05-20 06:00 +0200
              Re: Debian-friendly laptop Stefan Monnier <monnier@iro.umontreal.ca> - 2021-05-20 07:10 +0200
                Re: Debian-friendly laptop Celejar <celejar@gmail.com> - 2021-05-20 14:10 +0200
              Re: Debian-friendly laptop "Andrew M.A. Cater" <amacater@einval.com> - 2021-05-20 20:00 +0200
          Re: Debian-friendly laptop rhkramer@gmail.com - 2021-05-20 14:00 +0200
            Re: Debian-friendly laptop Celejar <celejar@gmail.com> - 2021-05-20 17:10 +0200
              Re: Debian-friendly laptop mj <lists@merit.unu.edu> - 2021-05-20 20:50 +0200
                Re: Debian-friendly laptop Polyna-Maude Racicot-Summerside <debian@polynamaude.com> - 2021-05-20 23:30 +0200
        Re: Debian-friendly laptop Polyna-Maude Racicot-Summerside <debian@polynamaude.com> - 2021-05-19 16:40 +0200
    Re: Debian-friendly laptop Andrei POPESCU <andreimpopescu@gmail.com> - 2021-05-19 09:10 +0200
      Re: Debian-friendly laptop <tomas@tuxteam.de> - 2021-05-19 09:50 +0200
        Re: Debian-friendly laptop Celejar <celejar@gmail.com> - 2021-05-19 14:00 +0200
          Re: Debian-friendly laptop Andrei POPESCU <andreimpopescu@gmail.com> - 2021-05-19 16:30 +0200
            Re: Debian-friendly laptop Celejar <celejar@gmail.com> - 2021-05-19 17:10 +0200
              Re: Debian-friendly laptop Andrei POPESCU <andreimpopescu@gmail.com> - 2021-05-19 17:40 +0200
                Re: Debian-friendly laptop Celejar <celejar@gmail.com> - 2021-05-19 18:10 +0200
                Re: Debian-friendly laptop Martin Smith <tech@smithproductions.co.uk> - 2021-05-19 20:00 +0200
                  Re: Debian-friendly laptop "James B" <portoteacher80@fastmail.com> - 2021-05-19 21:50 +0200
    Re: Debian-friendly laptop George Shuklin <george.shuklin@gmail.com> - 2021-05-19 19:50 +0200
      Re: Debian-friendly laptop Joel Roth <joelz@pobox.com> - 2021-05-19 23:20 +0200

Page 1 of 2  [1] 2  Next page →

#235320 — Debian-friendly laptop

I'm trying to choose between Purism and System76, and, as far as I 
understand they both supports linux very well, but..

Which one is better? Or, may me I missed and there are other coreboot 
(no ME) vendors with high-grade Linux support?

I have a negative experience with XPS13 DE (which is shipped with 
Ubuntu, but even with all tweaks and random sleeps they added to vanilla 
Ubuntu, is far from perfect in Linux support)...

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#235331

[Multipart message — attachments visible in raw view] — view raw

Hi !
I've had good experiences with HP EliteBook.
I'm not sure what you mean by Linux support.
Most laptop today will be supported in Linux, some tweak maybe necessary
but they are quite easy.
In my case it was the screen that was "turning around" by itself caused
by the motion sensor in the laptop that was reporting wrongfully. Once
disabled, my screen stay in the exact direction it is supposed too.

Like all computer hardware, if you want something with good support then
you have to go away from the latest available. Business who require
computer for their core process, like engineering firm will often get
computer that are one year old (has been in production for a year) so
they already know the bugs out there and the support has had time to get
good.

On 2021-05-18 3:49 p.m., George Shuklin wrote:
> I'm trying to choose between Purism and System76, and, as far as I
> understand they both supports linux very well, but..
> 
> Which one is better? Or, may me I missed and there are other coreboot
> (no ME) vendors with high-grade Linux support?
> 
> I have a negative experience with XPS13 DE (which is shipped with
> Ubuntu, but even with all tweaks and random sleeps they added to vanilla
> Ubuntu, is far from perfect in Linux support)...
> 

-- 
Polyna-Maude R.-Summerside
-Be smart, Be wise, Support opensource development

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#235338

[Multipart message — attachments visible in raw view] — view raw

Well, there are two answers to the questions on support Linux.

One is full support of hardware by drivers and hardware. Often many small
things are missing, like mice off indicator on x220, or incorrect support
for Fn-based shortcuts.

But there is a more important topic. It's support by main part of archi8,
without propietary blobs. That's all about coreboot, and having all drivers
been upsteamed, preferably without non-free blobs for firmware.

On Tue, May 18, 2021, 23:01 Polyna-Maude Racicot-Summerside <
debian@polynamaude.com> wrote:

> Hi !
> I've had good experiences with HP EliteBook.
> I'm not sure what you mean by Linux support.
> Most laptop today will be supported in Linux, some tweak maybe necessary
> but they are quite easy.
> In my case it was the screen that was "turning around" by itself caused
> by the motion sensor in the laptop that was reporting wrongfully. Once
> disabled, my screen stay in the exact direction it is supposed too.
>
> Like all computer hardware, if you want something with good support then
> you have to go away from the latest available. Business who require
> computer for their core process, like engineering firm will often get
> computer that are one year old (has been in production for a year) so
> they already know the bugs out there and the support has had time to get
> good.
>
> On 2021-05-18 3:49 p.m., George Shuklin wrote:
> > I'm trying to choose between Purism and System76, and, as far as I
> > understand they both supports linux very well, but..
> >
> > Which one is better? Or, may me I missed and there are other coreboot
> > (no ME) vendors with high-grade Linux support?
> >
> > I have a negative experience with XPS13 DE (which is shipped with
> > Ubuntu, but even with all tweaks and random sleeps they added to vanilla
> > Ubuntu, is far from perfect in Linux support)...
> >
>
> --
> Polyna-Maude R.-Summerside
> -Be smart, Be wise, Support opensource development
>
>

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#235345

[Multipart message — attachments visible in raw view] — view raw

Hi !

On 2021-05-18 6:28 p.m., George Shuklin wrote:
> Well, there are two answers to the questions on support Linux.
> 
> One is full support of hardware by drivers and hardware. Often many
> small things are missing, like mice off indicator on x220, or incorrect
> support for Fn-based shortcuts.
> 
I'm not talking about this type of support.
> But there is a more important topic. It's support by main part of
> archi8, without propietary blobs. That's all about coreboot, and having
> all drivers been upsteamed, preferably without non-free blobs for firmware.
> 
My Elitebook work great out of the box with a plain Debian Stretch (now
being Buster) distribution.
The only stuff that is considered blob would be the intel firmware
loaded at boot. Good luck getting those opened by Intel.

Maybe what is bothering you regards the use of blob for the Wifi card ?

You'd need to check inside the driver itself, if it does load some
closed source binary firmware.

> On Tue, May 18, 2021, 23:01 Polyna-Maude Racicot-Summerside
> <debian@polynamaude.com <mailto:debian@polynamaude.com>> wrote:
> 
>     Hi !
>     I've had good experiences with HP EliteBook.
>     I'm not sure what you mean by Linux support.
>     Most laptop today will be supported in Linux, some tweak maybe necessary
>     but they are quite easy.
>     In my case it was the screen that was "turning around" by itself caused
>     by the motion sensor in the laptop that was reporting wrongfully. Once
>     disabled, my screen stay in the exact direction it is supposed too.
> 
>     Like all computer hardware, if you want something with good support 
then
>     you have to go away from the latest available. Business who require
>     computer for their core process, like engineering firm will often get
>     computer that are one year old (has been in production for a year) so
>     they already know the bugs out there and the support has had time to get
>     good.
> 
>     On 2021-05-18 3:49 p.m., George Shuklin wrote:
>     > I'm trying to choose between Purism and System76, and, as far as I
>     > understand they both supports linux very well, but..
>     >
>     > Which one is better? Or, may me I missed and there are other coreboot
>     > (no ME) vendors with high-grade Linux support?
>     >
>     > I have a negative experience with XPS13 DE (which is shipped with
>     > Ubuntu, but even with all tweaks and random sleeps they added to
>     vanilla
>     > Ubuntu, is far from perfect in Linux support)...
>     >
> 
>     -- 
>     Polyna-Maude R.-Summerside
>     -Be smart, Be wise, Support opensource development
> 

-- 
Polyna-Maude R.-Summerside
-Be smart, Be wise, Support opensource development

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#235360

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On Tue, May 18, 2021 at 04:01:41PM -0400, Polyna-Maude Racicot-Summerside wrote:
> Hi !
> I've had good experiences with HP EliteBook.
> I'm not sure what you mean by Linux support.

The "linux support" George is talking about is just a tad...
stronger :)

Both Purism and System76 come with pre-installed GNU/linux.
Here, the manufacturer is committed to get everything working.

Both, as far as I know, come even with Coreboot, i.e. a free
BIOS (which nowadays is quite a thing).

They are a bit more expensive, but whenever one can afford them,
the better alternative from the POV of free software (you
support companies supporting free software, after all).

Cheers
 - t

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#235363

On Wed, 19 May 2021 09:39:06 +0200
<tomas@tuxteam.de> wrote:

> On Tue, May 18, 2021 at 04:01:41PM -0400, Polyna-Maude Racicot-Summerside wrote:
> > Hi !
> > I've had good experiences with HP EliteBook.
> > I'm not sure what you mean by Linux support.
> 
> The "linux support" George is talking about is just a tad...
> stronger :)
> 
> Both Purism and System76 come with pre-installed GNU/linux.
> Here, the manufacturer is committed to get everything working.
> 
> Both, as far as I know, come even with Coreboot, i.e. a free
> BIOS (which nowadays is quite a thing).
> 
> They are a bit more expensive, but whenever one can afford them,

Or perhaps more than a bit more ;) I see that the Librem 14 version 1
starts at $1470, for an i7 10710U, 8GB RAM, 250GB SSD, 14" 1920x1080
screen, no WLAN. I'm pretty sure you can do a whole lot better than
that from the standard brands.

> the better alternative from the POV of free software (you
> support companies supporting free software, after all).

Hey, if money is no object, and you want to go all the way down this
route, you should consider the Blackbird (although I don't think they
make laptops):

https://www.osnews.com/story/133093/review-blackbird-secure-desktop-a-fully-open-source-modern-power9-workstation-without-any-proprietary-code/

Celejar

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#235368

On 19/05/2021 15:06, Celejar wrote:
> On Wed, 19 May 2021 09:39:06 +0200
> <tomas@tuxteam.de> wrote:
>
>> On Tue, May 18, 2021 at 04:01:41PM -0400, Polyna-Maude Racicot-Summerside wrote:
>>> Hi !
>>> I've had good experiences with HP EliteBook.
>>> I'm not sure what you mean by Linux support.
>> The "linux support" George is talking about is just a tad...
>> stronger :)
>>
>> Both Purism and System76 come with pre-installed GNU/linux.
>> Here, the manufacturer is committed to get everything working.
>>
>> Both, as far as I know, come even with Coreboot, i.e. a free
>> BIOS (which nowadays is quite a thing).
>>
>> They are a bit more expensive, but whenever one can afford them,
> Or perhaps more than a bit more ;) I see that the Librem 14 version 1
> starts at $1470, for an i7 10710U, 8GB RAM, 250GB SSD, 14" 1920x1080
> screen, no WLAN. I'm pretty sure you can do a whole lot better than
> that from the standard brands.

It become a bit better if you throw in some more hardware at order page. 
At ~$1800 it becomes a beefy machine. I guess I get a better offer from 
other brands, but without a vendor support for coreboot. I still can't 
get over my old PC, where UEFI code did 'ping home' on each boot (with 
ethernet/DCHP attached), and offered an option to post to the twitter 
every time PC booting. (ASRock if you want to known the name).

>> the better alternative from the POV of free software (you
>> support companies supporting free software, after all).
> Hey, if money is no object, and you want to go all the way down this
> route, you should consider the Blackbird (although I don't think they
> make laptops):
>
> https://www.osnews.com/story/133093/review-blackbird-secure-desktop-a-fully-open-source-modern-power9-workstation-without-any-proprietary-code/
>
> Celejar
Thank you for the name in the list. Unfortunately, this time I need 
something portable with a battery, and they have only workstations.

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#235369

[Multipart message — attachments visible in raw view] — view raw

On Wed, May 19, 2021 at 08:06:19AM -0400, Celejar wrote:
> On Wed, 19 May 2021 09:39:06 +0200
> <tomas@tuxteam.de> wrote:

[...]

> Or perhaps more than a bit more ;) I see that the Librem 14 version 1
> starts at $1470, for an i7 10710U, 8GB RAM, 250GB SSD, 14" 1920x1080
> screen, no WLAN. I'm pretty sure you can do a whole lot better than
> that from the standard brands.

It has some mark up, yes. But it doesn't seem that terrible to
me (I think the Apple markup is higher)

> > the better alternative from the POV of free software (you
> > support companies supporting free software, after all).
> 
> Hey, if money is no object, and you want to go all the way down this
> route, you should consider the Blackbird (although I don't think they
> make laptops):

This is quite another class of fish :)

Cheers
 - t

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#235420

> Or perhaps more than a bit more ;) I see that the Librem 14 version 1
> starts at $1470, for an i7 10710U, 8GB RAM, 250GB SSD, 14" 1920x1080
> screen, no WLAN. I'm pretty sure you can do a whole lot better than
> that from the standard brands.

Indeed, you pay more, but it funds development of coreboot, saves you
from having to wonder if the wifi's chipset will work out of the box,
as well as brings to Intel's attention the existence of real customers
willing to pay to have *less* code running in the ME.


        Stefan "typing this on his Purism mini"

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#235421

On Wednesday 19 May 2021 22:48:18 Stefan Monnier wrote:

> > Or perhaps more than a bit more ;) I see that the Librem 14 version
> > 1 starts at $1470, for an i7 10710U, 8GB RAM, 250GB SSD, 14"
> > 1920x1080 screen, no WLAN. I'm pretty sure you can do a whole lot
> > better than that from the standard brands.
>
> Indeed, you pay more, but it funds development of coreboot, saves you
> from having to wonder if the wifi's chipset will work out of the box,
> as well as brings to Intel's attention the existence of real customers
> willing to pay to have *less* code running in the ME.
>
>
>         Stefan "typing this on his Purism mini"

While building the latest linuxcnc for my pi, I came across this mentio 
of coreboot, so I checked their site for asus mainboard support, to find 
asus unmentioned.

So, will it work for an Asus Z370-A II mainboard?

Currently running this machine with 32GB of dram and a 6 core i5 cpu. 
UEFI turned off.

Thanks to anyone that knows.

Cheers, Gene Heskett
-- 
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author)
If we desire respect for the law, we must first make the law respectable.
 - Louis D. Brandeis
Genes Web page <http://geneslinuxbox.net:6309/gene>

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#235422

> While building the latest linuxcnc for my pi, I came across this mentio 
> of coreboot, so I checked their site for asus mainboard support, to find 
> asus unmentioned.
>
> So, will it work for an Asus Z370-A II mainboard?

I have no idea, but you can check the doc and or code to find out.
The statistically most likely answer is "no" because most chipsets and
motherboards are woefully underdocumented so it's very hard to port
Coreboot to it.

That's why I find Purism and System76 to be important: being
manufacturers they have a bit more leverage to get some of that
documentation (presumably under NDA) such that they can port Coreboot to
the particular chipset they're using, and that can then be helpful for
other machines using the same (or similar) chipset.


        Stefan

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#235427

On Thu, 20 May 2021 01:04:06 -0400
Stefan Monnier <monnier@iro.umontreal.ca> wrote:

> > While building the latest linuxcnc for my pi, I came across this mentio 
> > of coreboot, so I checked their site for asus mainboard support, to find 
> > asus unmentioned.
> >
> > So, will it work for an Asus Z370-A II mainboard?
> 
> I have no idea, but you can check the doc and or code to find out.

Here's the official answer:
https://www.coreboot.org/FAQ#Will_coreboot_work_on_my_machine.3F

> The statistically most likely answer is "no" because most chipsets and
> motherboards are woefully underdocumented so it's very hard to port
> Coreboot to it.
> 
> That's why I find Purism and System76 to be important: being
> manufacturers they have a bit more leverage to get some of that
> documentation (presumably under NDA) such that they can port Coreboot to
> the particular chipset they're using, and that can then be helpful for
> other machines using the same (or similar) chipset.

Celejar

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#235433

On Wed, May 19, 2021 at 11:49:56PM -0400, Gene Heskett wrote:
> On Wednesday 19 May 2021 22:48:18 Stefan Monnier wrote:
> 
> > > Or perhaps more than a bit more ;) I see that the Librem 14 version
> > > 1 starts at $1470, for an i7 10710U, 8GB RAM, 250GB SSD, 14"
> > > 1920x1080 screen, no WLAN. I'm pretty sure you can do a whole lot
> > > better than that from the standard brands.
> >
> > Indeed, you pay more, but it funds development of coreboot, saves you
> > from having to wonder if the wifi's chipset will work out of the box,
> > as well as brings to Intel's attention the existence of real customers
> > willing to pay to have *less* code running in the ME.
> >
> >
> >         Stefan "typing this on his Purism mini"
> 
> While building the latest linuxcnc for my pi, I came across this mentio 
> of coreboot, so I checked their site for asus mainboard support, to find 
> asus unmentioned.
> 
> So, will it work for an Asus Z370-A II mainboard?
> 
> Currently running this machine with 32GB of dram and a 6 core i5 cpu. 
> UEFI turned off.
> 
> Thanks to anyone that knows.
> 
> Cheers, Gene Heskett
> -- 
> "There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
>  soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
> -Ed Howdershelt (Author)
> If we desire respect for the law, we must first make the law respectable.
>  - Louis D. Brandeis
> Genes Web page <http://geneslinuxbox.net:6309/gene>
> 
https://coreboot.org/status/board-status.html suggests not.

Coreboot ASUS Z370-A II into Google gave me the web page.

UEFI turned off? You may find problems with some software, especially 
graphics cards which assume UEFI, in the future. For any new installations
I would suggest turning UEFI on - legacy BIOS will not always be supported
and support is deprecated by most vendors.

All the very best, as ever,

Andy Cater

Hope this helps

Andy Cater

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#235426

On Wednesday, May 19, 2021 08:06:19 AM Celejar wrote:
> Or perhaps more than a bit more ;) I see that the Librem 14 version 1
> starts at $1470, for an i7 10710U, 8GB RAM, 250GB SSD, 14" 1920x1080
> screen, no WLAN. I'm pretty sure you can do a whole lot better than
> that from the standard brands.

Lenovo US claims to be having a sale on Think PCs

received this this morning -- I looked at only the first page of the first URL 
and those are not in my price range (nor am I looking for one atm)

PS: I guess "Think PCs" include Thinkpads, I'm not sure what else that 
includes.


From: Lenovo US <Lenovo@ecomms.lenovo.com>
Date: Wed May 19 11:56:17 2021

   
New 11th Gen X1 PCs are up to 40% off now + save up to 60% off most Think PCs. 

<[[https://land.lenovo.com/index.php/email/emailWebview?mkt_tok=MDI2LUVOTy0wMDEAAAF9JFA8MeJ74EFrVsIjbIT9_Rw3mStJ7QE7RIiuc1TldraukBQvF4VGdtFi2HQ-
LW0yr7bEe30Ix_oOMtCUKLGDozggIPL7_kLsGEBDeBVE1sbkyGM&md_id=71616]]>
LAPTOPS  
<https://click2.lenovo.com/dc/Z4J7qXdfAd7PBS9QpLpILnnch2nWwUUqk2zp4oEnMWGZuLarxFDiRAwSfoDACu7xi9LWL7CBgGqY21VyFoorELqYZEdnWDrF45V2PIeYxWD69fT1HL5LjdwB0RRrB9SJOWZ8d0Mffy9f_1r40p9XfmQJIlTMTInUC-
jpxRcea7E=/MDI2LUVOTy0wMDEAAAF9JFA8MKcqmn2OS8q4dSe9Xv2yIf6YuIIkhMyLII6mpOSIO0TA0lp0t5HAgMxJr57h4UMfdfw=>    
TABLETS  
<https://click2.lenovo.com/dc/Z4J7qXdfAd7PBS9QpLpILlLM3cY3K_ZGb91LVaqAm-
SQcuygdsW5Y8ReBy0xBFhbwDWFyu86SwIFXWM8zf31naqUVMfUYYvvFoG4hzxBY6WEExboQ04E0T4eYgm84ZRJUCIbwbtTeI1xRZQEG6Y1SiAZlOei6-
j9-uyOewUDE5vugqJQEy95y4ryKCWzBK-
A/MDI2LUVOTy0wMDEAAAF9JFA8MKcqmn2OS8q4dSe9Xv2yIf6YuIIkhMyLII6mpOSIO0TA0lp0t5HAgMxJr57h4UMfdfw=>    
DESKTOPS  
<https://click2.lenovo.com/dc/Z4J7qXdfAd7PBS9QpLpILhpk4R1__5Hmlq_6yEoPuoIIe_QdSS6NY2bVeOEcCtEhmMyOtdb91G1-
LP0QyRWzt0iw3woy8SZ0A4gBoOmCT4m9CYNqZzbDESRS9d-4dOCkYnoPg6em4ocyqsSt6QTSL9aN9JXAvmhNcjIxXOxlMQ4=/MDI2LUVOTy0wMDEAAAF9JFA8MKcqmn2OS8q4dSe9Xv2yIf6YuIIkhMyLII6mpOSIO0TA0lp0t5HAgMxJr57h4UMfdfw=>    
ACCESSORIES  
<https://click2.lenovo.com/dc/Z4J7qXdfAd7PBS9QpLpILpa_zXYnW3TDyYEmc2_SGTNljaCk2qjNy0QUJ2I3Lc0Wug4BsmKOiIl6T6ADFtKyz1QUYfUifcE1sgI6bT0fPD6MYfnXETlFrPJN3Z19zr4iizXADJ-
J3FTs6nuuvYdJ8g==/MDI2LUVOTy0wMDEAAAF9JFA8MKcqmn2OS8q4dSe9Xv2yIf6YuIIkhMyLII6mpOSIO0TA0lp0t5HAgMxJr57h4UMfdfw=>    
DEALS  
<https://click2.lenovo.com/dc/Z4J7qXdfAd7PBS9QpLpILlLM3cY3K_ZGb91LVaqAm-
SQcuygdsW5Y8ReBy0xBFhbQqqLTp2DOx7WGfZ1DifJDgRf55m53RQS2X0we7vUl4lhd_sDw1CkKhfts3Xnr8ipPNGPbCaiP51y5GQFlnAV0qS7DGgQoqDBSIA4oeK-
K8Q=/MDI2LUVOTy0wMDEAAAF9JFA8MKcqmn2OS8q4dSe9Xv2yIf6YuIIkhMyLII6mpOSIO0TA0lp0t5HAgMxJr57h4UMfdfw=>

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#235432

On Thu, 20 May 2021 07:51:31 -0400
rhkramer@gmail.com wrote:

> On Wednesday, May 19, 2021 08:06:19 AM Celejar wrote:
> > Or perhaps more than a bit more ;) I see that the Librem 14 version 1
> > starts at $1470, for an i7 10710U, 8GB RAM, 250GB SSD, 14" 1920x1080
> > screen, no WLAN. I'm pretty sure you can do a whole lot better than
> > that from the standard brands.
> 
> Lenovo US claims to be having a sale on Think PCs
> 
> received this this morning -- I looked at only the first page of the first URL 
> and those are not in my price range (nor am I looking for one atm)
> 
> PS: I guess "Think PCs" include Thinkpads, I'm not sure what else that 
> includes.

Lenovo's official ThinkPad prices are indeed always high, even on their
perpetual sales. I think that most of us who buy them for personal use
do so on the secondhand / refurbished market.

Celejar

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#235435

On 5/20/21 5:04 PM, Celejar wrote:
> Lenovo's official ThinkPad prices are indeed always high, even on their
> perpetual sales. I think that most of us who buy them for personal use
> do so on the secondhand / refurbished market.

Yes, and I would like to point out that the high price tag is in my 
opinion NOT justified by exta good or extra easy warranty. We have had 
several bad and disappointing experiences with lenovo warranty for quite 
expensive laptops.

Since then we buy only dell laptops, and life has been good. Including 
linux compatibility on the latitudes. (but then again.. perhaps we have 
simpy been lucky, who knows)


MJ

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#235437

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Hi,

On 2021-05-20 2:23 p.m., mj wrote:
> 
> 
> On 5/20/21 5:04 PM, Celejar wrote:
>> Lenovo's official ThinkPad prices are indeed always high, even on their
>> perpetual sales. I think that most of us who buy them for personal use
>> do so on the secondhand / refurbished market.
> 
> Yes, and I would like to point out that the high price tag is in my
> opinion NOT justified by exta good or extra easy warranty. We have had
> several bad and disappointing experiences with lenovo warranty for quite
> expensive laptops.
> 
> Since then we buy only dell laptops, and life has been good. Including
> linux compatibility on the latitudes. (but then again.. perhaps we have
> simpy been lucky, who knows)
> 
I've had many Dell Latitudes and HP Elitebook, all running under Linux
and no problem with compatibility, all models being 2015 & up.

With the HP it was easy to find business dock and have expansion, we
even got some of them working with the 3G/4G cellular modem for
associates working in Congo. With the extra battery they we're able to
work for 12 hours non-stop.

> 
> MJ
> 

-- 
Polyna-Maude R.-Summerside
-Be smart, Be wise, Support opensource development

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#235373

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Hi

On 2021-05-19 3:39 a.m., tomas@tuxteam.de wrote:
> On Tue, May 18, 2021 at 04:01:41PM -0400, Polyna-Maude Racicot-Summerside wrote:
>> Hi !
>> I've had good experiences with HP EliteBook.
>> I'm not sure what you mean by Linux support.
> 
> The "linux support" George is talking about is just a tad...
> stronger :)
> 
Thanks for the added precision.

I understand that George is the kind of guy that want to give back to
the community of free software and he find his way by buying from
company that support open source.

That's great ! Sadly my wallet doesn't allow me to do so.

> Both Purism and System76 come with pre-installed GNU/linux.
> Here, the manufacturer is committed to get everything working.
> 
> Both, as far as I know, come even with Coreboot, i.e. a free
> BIOS (which nowadays is quite a thing).
> 
Thanks for letting me know what's coreboot, I'll go take a look around.
This seem pretty interesting as most BIOS are somewhat deep kept secret
and as we al know, most source code that is secret, is also hard to
audit (and as human developer know this, they often use the worst
protection ever, expecting it stays obscured).

> They are a bit more expensive, but whenever one can afford them,
> the better alternative from the POV of free software (you
> support companies supporting free software, after all).
> 
I'm now setting up a server and will possibly host a Debian mirror, this
will be my way of supporting. Just a bit scared that this may drive
people to do more "testing" (hacking) on the security of my
infrastructure, not too sure I want to do this now.
> Cheers
>  - t
> 

-- 
Polyna-Maude R.-Summerside
-Be smart, Be wise, Support opensource development

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#235357

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On Ma, 18 mai 21, 22:49:31, George Shuklin wrote:
> I'm trying to choose between Purism and System76, and, as far as I
> understand they both supports linux very well, but..
> 
> Which one is better? Or, may me I missed and there are other coreboot (no
> ME) vendors with high-grade Linux support?
> 
> I have a negative experience with XPS13 DE (which is shipped with Ubuntu,
> but even with all tweaks and random sleeps they added to vanilla Ubuntu, is
> far from perfect in Linux support)...
 
Thinkpads are generally very good quality (even if expensive) and have 
traditionally been rather well supported by Linux.

Recently Lenovo has actively cooperated with distributions (including 
Debian, see debian-devel archives) to improve support out-of-the box for 
new devices and I believe some are available with Ubuntu (in addition to 
the ones available without Windows).


Kind regards,
Andrei
-- 
http://wiki.debian.org/FAQsFromDebianUser

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#235361

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On Wed, May 19, 2021 at 10:09:12AM +0300, Andrei POPESCU wrote:
> On Ma, 18 mai 21, 22:49:31, George Shuklin wrote:
> > I'm trying to choose between Purism and System76, and, as far as I
> > understand they both supports linux very well, but..
> > 
> > Which one is better? Or, may me I missed and there are other coreboot (no
> > ME) vendors with high-grade Linux support?
> > 
> > I have a negative experience with XPS13 DE (which is shipped with Ubuntu,
> > but even with all tweaks and random sleeps they added to vanilla Ubuntu, is
> > far from perfect in Linux support)...
>  
> Thinkpads are generally very good quality (even if expensive) and have 
> traditionally been rather well supported by Linux.

That's what I do whenever the "nice" alternatives mentioned above are
out of my reach (as is currently the case): refurbished Thinkpads.
They are robust enough to support a second life, and installation is
pretty smooth most of the time.

Cheers
 - t

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