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PC fan getting very loud

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  PC fan getting very loud deloptes <deloptes@gmail.com> - 2021-05-08 11:20 +0200
    Re: PC fan getting very loud Sven Joachim <svenjoac@gmx.de> - 2021-05-08 11:30 +0200
      Re: PC fan getting very loud Michael Grant <mgrant@grant.org> - 2021-05-08 12:10 +0200
        Re: PC fan getting very loud deloptes <deloptes@gmail.com> - 2021-05-08 13:20 +0200
          Re: PC fan getting very loud deloptes <deloptes@gmail.com> - 2021-05-08 13:30 +0200
        Re: PC fan getting very loud piorunz <piorunz@gmx.com> - 2021-05-08 13:30 +0200
          Re: PC fan getting very loud Michael Grant <mgrant@grant.org> - 2021-05-08 13:30 +0200
    Re: PC fan getting very loud Bret Busby <bret@busby.net> - 2021-05-09 00:20 +0200
    Re: PC fan getting very loud Charles Curley <charlescurley@charlescurley.com> - 2021-05-08 23:00 +0200
      Re: PC fan getting very loud Bret Busby <bret@busby.net> - 2021-05-08 23:30 +0200
        Re: PC fan getting very loud Weaver <weaver@riseup.net> - 2021-05-08 23:40 +0200
      Re: PC fan getting very loud deloptes <deloptes@gmail.com> - 2021-05-08 23:40 +0200
        Re: PC fan getting very loud "Alexander V. Makartsev" <avbetev@gmail.com> - 2021-05-09 09:00 +0200
          Re: PC fan getting very loud "Alexander V. Makartsev" <avbetev@gmail.com> - 2021-05-09 11:10 +0200
            Re: PC fan getting very loud deloptes <deloptes@gmail.com> - 2021-05-10 09:20 +0200
          Re: PC fan getting very loud deloptes <deloptes@gmail.com> - 2021-05-09 09:50 +0200
            Re: PC fan getting very loud "Thomas Schmitt" <scdbackup@gmx.net> - 2021-05-09 12:20 +0200

#234982 — PC fan getting very loud

Fujitsu ESPRIMO Q520 when opening some sh*tty web sitesin firefox the fan
gets extremly noisy.
On a Fujitsu C700 with the same setup there is no such problem - although I
probably do not open these sites - but some other sites cause a lot of load
and still the fan is not getting so noisy.

Fujitsu ESPRIMO Q520 CPU

vendor_id       : GenuineIntel
cpu family      : 6
model           : 60
model name      : Intel(R) Core(TM) i5-4570T CPU @ 2.90GHz
stepping        : 3
microcode       : 0x28
cpu MHz         : 1421.711
cache size      : 4096 KB
physical id     : 0
siblings        : 4
core id         : 1
cpu cores       : 2
apicid          : 3
initial apicid  : 3
fpu             : yes
fpu_exception   : yes
cpuid level     : 13
wp              : yes
flags           : fpu vme de pse tsc msr pae mce cx8 apic sep mtrr pge mca
cmov pat pse36 clflush dts acpi mmx fxsr sse sse2 ss ht tm pbe syscall nx
pdpe1gb rdtscp lm constant_tsc arch_perfmon pebs bts rep_good nopl
xtopology nonstop_tsc cpuid aperfmperf pni pclmulqdq dtes64 monitor ds_cpl
vmx smx est tm2 ssse3 sdbg fma cx16 xtpr pdcm pcid sse4_1 sse4_2 x2apic
movbe popcnt tsc_deadline_timer aes xsave avx f16c rdrand lahf_lm abm
cpuid_fault epb invpcid_single pti ssbd ibrs ibpb stibp tpr_shadow vnmi
flexpriority ept vpid ept_ad fsgsbase tsc_adjust bmi1 avx2 smep bmi2 erms
invpcid xsaveopt dtherm ida arat pln pts md_clear flush_l1d
bugs            : cpu_meltdown spectre_v1 spectre_v2 spec_store_bypass l1tf
mds swapgs itlb_multihit srbds
bogomips        : 5786.69
clflush size    : 64
cache_alignment : 64
address sizes   : 39 bits physical, 48 bits virtual

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#234984

On 2021-05-08 11:13 +0200, deloptes wrote:

> Fujitsu ESPRIMO Q520 when opening some sh*tty web sitesin firefox the fan
> gets extremly noisy.

Such is the modern web. :-(

> On a Fujitsu C700 with the same setup there is no such problem - although I
> probably do not open these sites - but some other sites cause a lot of load
> and still the fan is not getting so noisy.

Dust off your ESPRIMO Q520 machine, and consider reapplying thermal
paste.  If that does not help, buy a better fan (the small form factor
limits your choices, though).

Cheers,
       Sven

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#234987

[Multipart message — attachments visible in raw view] — view raw

On Sat, May 08, 2021 at 11:23:06AM +0200, Sven Joachim wrote:
> On 2021-05-08 11:13 +0200, deloptes wrote:
> 
> > Fujitsu ESPRIMO Q520 when opening some sh*tty web sitesin firefox the fan
> > gets extremly noisy.
> 
> Such is the modern web. :-(

I also recently had something like this happen.  I tried to redo the
thermal paste between the CPU and cooler but it did not help.  I have
a liquid cooler on my CPU.  Apparently these things get clogged up
over time.  They need to be replaced (or taken apart carefully and
cleaned) from time to time.

I replaced my cooler with a Thermaltake and I have to say my desktop
went from sounding like a jet engine to near total silence.  I was
actually so surprised at first I thought it wasn't working!

I don't know if this brand is particularrly quiet or if they're all
quiet now days.  However, replacing the cooler definitely helped
considerably.

Michael Grant

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#234988

Michael Grant wrote:

> I also recently had something like this happen.  I tried to redo the
> thermal paste between the CPU and cooler but it did not help.  I have
> a liquid cooler on my CPU.  Apparently these things get clogged up
> over time.  They need to be replaced (or taken apart carefully and
> cleaned) from time to time.
> 
> I replaced my cooler with a Thermaltake and I have to say my desktop
> went from sounding like a jet engine to near total silence.  I was
> actually so surprised at first I thought it wasn't working!
> 
> I don't know if this brand is particularrly quiet or if they're all
> quiet now days.  However, replacing the cooler definitely helped
> considerably.

Thanks for the advice

Another difference is that on the C700 I use firefox from mozilla.org while
on the ESPRIMO Q520 I seem to have installed firefox-esr.

Also on the ESPRIMO Q520 skype uses 50% CPU and on the C700 5% :/

very odd - I wonder if it is really the Coller Fan or something else there

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#234989

deloptes wrote:

> Another difference is that on the C700 I use firefox from mozilla.org
> while on the ESPRIMO Q520 I seem to have installed firefox-esr.
> 
> Also on the ESPRIMO Q520 skype uses 50% CPU and on the C700 5% :/
> 

Turned out when I was monitoring they were using skype so it can be ruled
out as source of the issue

> very odd - I wonder if it is really the Coller Fan or something else there

The fan was cleaned up - not sure about cooling paste. I'll try now with the
mozilla firefox 82.x that I have installed on the C700

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#234990

On 08/05/2021 11:06, Michael Grant wrote:

> I also recently had something like this happen.  I tried to redo the
> thermal paste between the CPU and cooler but it did not help.  I have
> a liquid cooler on my CPU.  Apparently these things get clogged up
> over time.  They need to be replaced (or taken apart carefully and
> cleaned) from time to time.

You had some bad liquid cooler then, or damaged water pump. I have AIO
liquid cooler from Corsair, bought it together with Ryzen 95W CPU about
4 years ago, haven't reapplied paste since then. No cleaning done
either, apart from de-dusting case every 6 months or so. Temperatures
are ideal, under Linux I have no control over 2 AIO fans, but everything
works perfectly on its own.

--

With kindest regards, piorunz.

⢀⣴⠾⠻⢶⣦⠀
⣾⠁⢠⠒⠀⣿⡁ Debian - The universal operating system
⢿⡄⠘⠷⠚⠋⠀ https://www.debian.org
⠈⠳⣄⠀⠀⠀⠀

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#234992

[Multipart message — attachments visible in raw view] — view raw

> You had some bad liquid cooler then, or damaged water pump. I have AIO
> liquid cooler from Corsair, bought it together with Ryzen 95W CPU about
> 4 years ago, haven't reapplied paste since then. No cleaning done
> either, apart from de-dusting case every 6 months or so. Temperatures
> are ideal, under Linux I have no control over 2 AIO fans, but everything
> works perfectly on its own.

My previous liquid cooler was a Corsair and it failed after about 5 or
6 years.  And yes, I highly suspect it was in the water pump, the
blades getting gummed up or something over the years it was in
operation which was pretty much 24x7.

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#234986

On 9/5/21 5:36 am, Weaver wrote:
> On 09-05-2021 07:03, Bret Busby wrote:
>> On 9/5/21 4:05 am, Charles Curley wrote:
>>> On Sat, 08 May 2021 11:13:34 +0200
>>> deloptes <deloptes@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Fujitsu ESPRIMO Q520 when opening some sh*tty web sitesin firefox the
>>>> fan gets extremly noisy.
>>>
>>> I have a similar problem with some of my older laptops. I have switched
>>> to Vivaldi (based on chromium), and that has reduced the problem
>>> considerably. Firefox is a resource hog.
>>>
>>
>> I also have Vivaldi running, with a few windows, in addition to
>> firefox, to investigate Vivaldi as an alternative browser.
>>
>> Vivaldi appears to not have a support mailing list, and, Vivaldi
>> appears to not have much provision for customisation.
>>
>> I also find Vivaldi to be quite slow, in comparison to firefox.
> 
> Try falkon instead.
> It's in the repositories.
> It doesn't have the same number of bells and whistles, but that's the
> cludge that weighs things down.
> Quite quick.
> Cheers!
> 
> Harry.
> 

I had a really nasty experience with falkon (from memory, falkon was 
something else before, and it got renamed to falkon - what it was 
before, I can't remember).

After a shutdown, or a crash of the application (it was the incarnation 
named falkon), when I next reloaded it, it reloaded the previous session 
of 23 windows, and kept reloading the session, opening hundreds of 
windows, so I had to use kill -9 to stop it, or, a power off of the 
computer.

I would never load it, or install it, intentionally, again, as I regard 
it as too dangerous.


-- 
Bret Busby
Armadale
West Australia
(UTC+0800)
..............

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#235001

On Sat, 08 May 2021 11:13:34 +0200
deloptes <deloptes@gmail.com> wrote:

> Fujitsu ESPRIMO Q520 when opening some sh*tty web sitesin firefox the
> fan gets extremly noisy.

I have a similar problem with some of my older laptops. I have switched
to Vivaldi (based on chromium), and that has reduced the problem
considerably. Firefox is a resource hog.

-- 
Does anybody read signatures any more?

https://charlescurley.com
https://charlescurley.com/blog/

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#235006

On 9/5/21 4:05 am, Charles Curley wrote:
> On Sat, 08 May 2021 11:13:34 +0200
> deloptes <deloptes@gmail.com> wrote:
> 
>> Fujitsu ESPRIMO Q520 when opening some sh*tty web sitesin firefox the
>> fan gets extremly noisy.
> 
> I have a similar problem with some of my older laptops. I have switched
> to Vivaldi (based on chromium), and that has reduced the problem
> considerably. Firefox is a resource hog.
> 

I also have Vivaldi running, with a few windows, in addition to firefox, 
to investigate Vivaldi as an alternative browser.

Vivaldi appears to not have a support mailing list, and, Vivaldi appears 
to not have much provision for customisation.

I also find Vivaldi to be quite slow, in comparison to firefox.

-- 
Bret Busby
Armadale
West Australia
(UTC+0800)
..............

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#235008

On 09-05-2021 07:03, Bret Busby wrote:
> On 9/5/21 4:05 am, Charles Curley wrote:
>> On Sat, 08 May 2021 11:13:34 +0200
>> deloptes <deloptes@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> Fujitsu ESPRIMO Q520 when opening some sh*tty web sitesin firefox the
>>> fan gets extremly noisy.
>>
>> I have a similar problem with some of my older laptops. I have switched
>> to Vivaldi (based on chromium), and that has reduced the problem
>> considerably. Firefox is a resource hog.
>>
> 
> I also have Vivaldi running, with a few windows, in addition to
> firefox, to investigate Vivaldi as an alternative browser.
> 
> Vivaldi appears to not have a support mailing list, and, Vivaldi
> appears to not have much provision for customisation.
> 
> I also find Vivaldi to be quite slow, in comparison to firefox.

Try falkon instead.
It's in the repositories.
It doesn't have the same number of bells and whistles, but that's the
cludge that weighs things down.
Quite quick.
Cheers!

Harry.
-- 
`The first stage of fascism should more appropriately be called
Corporatism because it is a merger of State and corporate power'.
-- Mussolini

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#235007

Charles Curley wrote:

>> Fujitsu ESPRIMO Q520 when opening some sh*tty web sitesin firefox the
>> fan gets extremly noisy.
> 
> I have a similar problem with some of my older laptops. I have switched
> to Vivaldi (based on chromium), and that has reduced the problem
> considerably. Firefox is a resource hog.

Q520 is not a week/old machine it is i5 cpu

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#235017

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On 09.05.2021 02:30, deloptes wrote:
> Charles Curley wrote:
>
>>> Fujitsu ESPRIMO Q520 when opening some sh*tty web sitesin firefox the
>>> fan gets extremly noisy.
>> I have a similar problem with some of my older laptops. I have switched
>> to Vivaldi (based on chromium), and that has reduced the problem
>> considerably. Firefox is a resource hog.
> Q520 is not a week/old machine it is i5 cpu
>
I think you have unrealistic expectations.
This unit has 4th gen 2 core CPU rated at 35W TDP. [1] Which is not as 
efficient as modern CPUs and don't have the ability to step-down to 
low-frequency (under 1GHz) modes.
Turbo Boost doesn't count in the TDP rating and it makes this mini-PC to 
generate even more heat.
That amount of heat has to be dissipated with super small heatsink and 
cooling fan. [2]
Keep in mind, that fan also has to cool down every other part of this 
mini-PC, like ICH, RAM, HDD and power circuit components.
No wonder it struggles to keep up and produce so much noise.
Put this mini-PC under any, not just Firefox, multi-threaded workload 
and you will have the same outcome.


[1] 
https://ark.intel.com/content/www/us/en/ark/products/75045/intel-core-i5-4570t-processor-4m-cache-up-to-3-60-ghz.html
[2] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TD9y0bkHKjQ

-- 
With kindest regards, Alexander.

⢀⣴⠾⠻⢶⣦⠀
⣾⠁⢠⠒⠀⣿⡁ Debian - The universal operating system
⢿⡄⠘⠷⠚⠋⠀ https://www.debian.org
⠈⠳⣄⠀⠀⠀⠀

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#235018

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On 09.05.2021 12:49, deloptes wrote:
> Alexander V. Makartsev wrote:
>
>> On 09.05.2021 02:30, deloptes wrote:
>>> Charles Curley wrote:
>>>
>>>>> Fujitsu ESPRIMO Q520 when opening some sh*tty web sitesin firefox the
>>>>> fan gets extremly noisy.
>>>> I have a similar problem with some of my older laptops. I have switched
>>>> to Vivaldi (based on chromium), and that has reduced the problem
>>>> considerably. Firefox is a resource hog.
>>> Q520 is not a week/old machine it is i5 cpu
>>>
>> I think you have unrealistic expectations.
>> This unit has 4th gen 2 core CPU rated at 35W TDP. [1] Which is not as
>> efficient as modern CPUs and don't have the ability to step-down to
>> low-frequency (under 1GHz) modes.
>> Turbo Boost doesn't count in the TDP rating and it makes this mini-PC to
>> generate even more heat.
>> That amount of heat has to be dissipated with super small heatsink and
>> cooling fan. [2]
>> Keep in mind, that fan also has to cool down every other part of this
>> mini-PC, like ICH, RAM, HDD and power circuit components.
>> No wonder it struggles to keep up and produce so much noise.
>> Put this mini-PC under any, not just Firefox, multi-threaded workload
>> and you will have the same outcome.
>>
> Thank you - I've been thinking of this, but somehow I am not convinced. See
> the CPU frequency (800).
> What would be a good test to find out if this theory is true? Should I test
> by opening the case. If theory is true with proper cooling it wouldn't run
> crazy. Correct?
You can monitor and log temperatures and other characteristics with 
'psensor'.
TCase of i5-4570T is only 66.35°C and that means CPU will have to keep 
the temperature at that point or lower.
I'd expect an idle temperature of this CPU (without any load) with this 
cooling solution will be already around 40-45°C if not higher.
By simple launching of any application will make the CPU load to spike 
to 100% and heat to build up.
I'm not sure if disabling CPU vulnerabilities mitigations 
(meltdown\spectre) would improve the performance of the CPU, allowing it 
to go into idle state sooner and this way make it cooler without 
resorting to throttling.
Opening the case won't help much and will probably be more harmful if 
the cooling solution was designed to make the air flow through the case 
and this way cooldown the other components of this unit.
I doubt you can do anything to improve cooling efficiency of this 
mini-PC, because its cooling solution is not standard and you can't just 
replace it with a more efficient one, like you can with standard PC.
Basically, a small sized cooler fan means it will have higher RPM 
(3000+) and high RPM means it will produce a lot of loud noise.

> C700
>
> vendor_id       : GenuineIntel
> cpu family      : 6
> model           : 42
> model name      : Intel(R) Core(TM) i5-2400 CPU @ 3.10GHz
> stepping        : 7
> microcode       : 0x2f
> cpu MHz         : 1720.697
> cache size      : 6144 KB
>
> Q520
>
> vendor_id       : GenuineIntel
> cpu family      : 6
> model           : 60
> model name      : Intel(R) Core(TM) i5-4570T CPU @ 2.90GHz
> stepping        : 3
> microcode       : 0x28
> cpu MHz         : 800.998
> cache size      : 4096 KB


-- 
With kindest regards, Alexander.

⢀⣴⠾⠻⢶⣦⠀
⣾⠁⢠⠒⠀⣿⡁ Debian - The universal operating system
⢿⡄⠘⠷⠚⠋⠀ https://www.debian.org
⠈⠳⣄⠀⠀⠀⠀

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#235019

Alexander V. Makartsev wrote:

Thank you Alexander V. Makartsev 

> You can monitor and log temperatures and other characteristics with
> 'psensor'.
> TCase of i5-4570T is only 66.35°C and that means CPU will have to keep
> the temperature at that point or lower.
> I'd expect an idle temperature of this CPU (without any load) with this
> cooling solution will be already around 40-45°C if not higher.

This is exactly what I've been thinking as well

> By simple launching of any application will make the CPU load to spike
> to 100% and heat to build up.

seems to be the case

> I'm not sure if disabling CPU vulnerabilities mitigations
> (meltdown\spectre) would improve the performance of the CPU, allowing it
> to go into idle state sooner and this way make it cooler without
> resorting to throttling.

I was also thinking of this, but I'll try to find a bios update first

> Opening the case won't help much and will probably be more harmful if
> the cooling solution was designed to make the air flow through the case
> and this way cooldown the other components of this unit.

thank you for confirming my thoughts

> I doubt you can do anything to improve cooling efficiency of this
> mini-PC, because its cooling solution is not standard and you can't just
> replace it with a more efficient one, like you can with standard PC.
> Basically, a small sized cooler fan means it will have higher RPM
> (3000+) and high RPM means it will produce a lot of loud noise.

We can try to find a low noise one if possible. If not the PC will be
replaced.

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#235028

Alexander V. Makartsev wrote:

> On 09.05.2021 02:30, deloptes wrote:
>> Charles Curley wrote:
>>
>>>> Fujitsu ESPRIMO Q520 when opening some sh*tty web sitesin firefox the
>>>> fan gets extremly noisy.
>>> I have a similar problem with some of my older laptops. I have switched
>>> to Vivaldi (based on chromium), and that has reduced the problem
>>> considerably. Firefox is a resource hog.
>> Q520 is not a week/old machine it is i5 cpu
>>
> I think you have unrealistic expectations.
> This unit has 4th gen 2 core CPU rated at 35W TDP. [1] Which is not as
> efficient as modern CPUs and don't have the ability to step-down to
> low-frequency (under 1GHz) modes.
> Turbo Boost doesn't count in the TDP rating and it makes this mini-PC to
> generate even more heat.
> That amount of heat has to be dissipated with super small heatsink and
> cooling fan. [2]
> Keep in mind, that fan also has to cool down every other part of this
> mini-PC, like ICH, RAM, HDD and power circuit components.
> No wonder it struggles to keep up and produce so much noise.
> Put this mini-PC under any, not just Firefox, multi-threaded workload
> and you will have the same outcome.
> 

Thank you - I've been thinking of this, but somehow I am not convinced. See
the CPU frequency (800).
What would be a good test to find out if this theory is true? Should I test
by opening the case. If theory is true with proper cooling it wouldn't run
crazy. Correct?


> 
> [1]
>
https://ark.intel.com/content/www/us/en/ark/products/75045/intel-core-i5-4570t-processor-4m-cache-up-to-3-60-ghz.html
> [2] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TD9y0bkHKjQ
> 



C700

vendor_id       : GenuineIntel
cpu family      : 6
model           : 42
model name      : Intel(R) Core(TM) i5-2400 CPU @ 3.10GHz
stepping        : 7
microcode       : 0x2f
cpu MHz         : 1720.697
cache size      : 6144 KB

Q520

vendor_id       : GenuineIntel
cpu family      : 6
model           : 60
model name      : Intel(R) Core(TM) i5-4570T CPU @ 2.90GHz
stepping        : 3
microcode       : 0x28
cpu MHz         : 800.998
cache size      : 4096 KB

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#235033

Hi,

Alexander V. Makartsev wrote:
> > Put this mini-PC under any, not just Firefox, multi-threaded workload
> > and you will have the same outcome.

deloptes wrote:
> What would be a good test to find out if this theory is true?

Did you already compare the Firefoxes about the number of threads they run ?
(top -H or top interactive command "H" come to my mind.)

I remember the request in this mail thread that you should post an URL
which triggers the problem for you. It might help to get more measurements
and opinions.
(A known browser hog is Gitlab. Just looking at
  https://salsa.debian.org/optical-media-team
brings my Xeon CPU to full speed for about a minute and keeps it slightly
excited until i go to a boring page like
  https://salsa.debian.org/optical-media-team/libisofs/-/raw/89c99327282f926c5ba40e49a67ac051cd1fe24a/debian/changelog
and hide the browser window behind my many xterms.)


Have a nice day :)

Thomas

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