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Your Thoughts on Printer Replacement

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  Your Thoughts on Printer Replacement Charles Curley <charlescurley@charlescurley.com> - 2021-09-18 01:00 +0200
    Re: Your Thoughts on Printer Replacement Klaus Singvogel <deb-user-ml@singvogel.net> - 2021-09-18 10:40 +0200
      Re: Your Thoughts on Printer Replacement Jonathan Dowland <jon+debian-user@dow.land> - 2021-09-18 11:10 +0200
        Re: Your Thoughts on Printer Replacement Jeremy Ardley <jeremy@ardley.org> - 2021-09-18 11:20 +0200
          Re: Your Thoughts on Printer Replacement "James H. H. Lampert" <jamesl@touchtonecorp.com> - 2021-09-18 17:30 +0200
        Re: Your Thoughts on Printer Replacement Fred <fred@blakemfg.com> - 2021-09-18 16:10 +0200
        Re: Your Thoughts on Printer Replacement "James H. H. Lampert" <jamesl@touchtonecorp.com> - 2021-09-18 17:30 +0200
          Re: Your Thoughts on Printer Replacement "tv.debian@googlemail.com" <tv.debian@googlemail.com> - 2021-09-19 10:50 +0200
    Re: Your Thoughts on Printer Replacement "Andrew M.A. Cater" <amacater@einval.com> - 2021-09-18 12:10 +0200

#240086 — Your Thoughts on Printer Replacement

I have an HP Officejet Pro L7700, which is starting to show its age.
Also HP has discontinued the standard size cartridges. I can get the
large ones.

First question:

I print rarely. Inkjet or laser? Or other? The carts on the L7700 tend
to go bad before they empty, 

-- 
Does anybody read signatures any more?

https://charlescurley.com
https://charlescurley.com/blog/

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#240095

Charles Curley wrote:
> I print rarely. Inkjet or laser? Or other? The carts on the L7700 tend
> to go bad before they empty, 

Rarely printing? I would suggest a laser, even if the price for printouts
is higher.

Brand? The situation current is this, that only HP released their printer
drivers as Open Source (at least 99% of them). This means that you will
get forever support for these printers with OpenSource - at least in
theory. :-) Think: Even after the CUPS has been replaced in Debian or CUPS
is changing it's internal data/communication/API, the source can be
adapted by someone, who can program, even if HP won't.

Also a printer, which is capable of PostScript oder PDF, should be an
invest in future. As PostScript (PS) is still the most supported printer
language at the moment - PDF is/was only a derived language from PS.

On the other side: I own two lasers from HP because of the OpenSource
situation. I'm not so happy with my MFP device (CM415 - comparable with
MFP 227), as the scanner (!) part is cheap and shows this after some time:
a limited number of pages can be scanned by the sheet-fed and then its no
longer working (typical: 1000 pages), the scans are a way too light by b/w
only pages.

Real PostScript laser printers by Kyocera are not cheap, even I had a very
good experience with them under Linux in a former company.

Conclusion:

It's not easy to recommend a good printer model.

I would never recommend to buy a printer, where you don't get OpenSource
drivers. I'm not speaking of Linux drivers, I speak of Open >Source<
drivers.

Best regards,
	Klaus.
-- 
Klaus Singvogel
GnuPG-Key-ID: 1024R/5068792D  1994-06-27

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#240098

On Sat, Sep 18, 2021 at 10:38:03AM +0200, Klaus Singvogel wrote:
>Charles Curley wrote:
>> I print rarely. Inkjet or laser? Or other? The carts on the L7700 tend
>> to go bad before they empty,
>
>Rarely printing? I would suggest a laser

I agree. Toner doesn't spoil sat there doing nothing for long periods of
time, whereas the ink for inkjets can do. 

The next question then becomes: mono or colour?

>Brand? The situation current is this, that only HP released their printer
>drivers as Open Source (at least 99% of them).

The direction of travel for printing is entirely driverless, so this is
less important than it used to be. And indeed, driverless printing is a
lot less of a headache to administrate, IMHO, than drivered - even with
open source drivers.

If I were looking for a new laser printer today I'd look at Lexmark (on
a recommendation from a friend), the firmware for which is apparently
based on Yocto Linux.


-- 
Please do not CC me for listmail.

👱🏻	Jonathan Dowland
✎	 jmtd@debian.org
🔗	https://jmtd.net

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#240099

[Multipart message — attachments visible in raw view] — view raw

On 18/9/21 5:00 pm, Jonathan Dowland wrote:
> On Sat, Sep 18, 2021 at 10:38:03AM +0200, Klaus Singvogel wrote:
>> Charles Curley wrote:
>>> I print rarely. Inkjet or laser? Or other? The carts on the L7700 tend
>>> to go bad before they empty,
>>
>> Rarely printing? I would suggest a laser
>
> I agree. Toner doesn't spoil sat there doing nothing for long periods of
> time, whereas the ink for inkjets can do.
> The next question then becomes: mono or colour?
>

My experience is that toner does degrade over a period of years. To get 
full life you need to use your advertised pages within a year or so.

Perhaps this is only for aftermarket cartridges? But overall, the cost 
per page is still 1-3 cents per page even with light use.

-- 
Jeremy

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#240118

On 9/18/21 2:19 AM, Jeremy Ardley wrote:
> My experience is that toner does degrade over a period of years. To get 
> full life you need to use your advertised pages within a year or so.

Agreed. I've seen toner cartridges go bad. Of course, they had been 
sitting on a shelf for *many* years.

--
JHHL

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#240117

On 9/18/21 2:00 AM, Jonathan Dowland wrote:
> On Sat, Sep 18, 2021 at 10:38:03AM +0200, Klaus Singvogel wrote:
>> Charles Curley wrote:
>>> I print rarely. Inkjet or laser? Or other? The carts on the L7700 tend
>>> to go bad before they empty,
>>
>> Rarely printing? I would suggest a laser
> 
> I agree. Toner doesn't spoil sat there doing nothing for long periods of
> time, whereas the ink for inkjets can do.
> The next question then becomes: mono or colour?
> 
>> Brand? The situation current is this, that only HP released their printer
>> drivers as Open Source (at least 99% of them).
> 
> The direction of travel for printing is entirely driverless, so this is
> less important than it used to be. And indeed, driverless printing is a
> lot less of a headache to administrate, IMHO, than drivered - even with
> open source drivers.
> 
> If I were looking for a new laser printer today I'd look at Lexmark (on
> a recommendation from a friend), the firmware for which is apparently
> based on Yocto Linux.
> 
> 
Hello,
I have a Lexmark E260dn which has Postscript, double side, Ethernet and 
USB, parallel, monochrome.  It usually works fine but apparently the 
toner stirrer doesn't work well.  The toner light comes on occasionally 
requiring the toner cartridge to be removed and shaken.  The printer is 
all plastic and not very expensive but the toner cartridges are a bit 
expensive.  The cartridge has a sensor built in that keeps up with the 
number of copies so you can't refill the cartridge as there is no way to 
reset the sensor.  You have to use Lexmark's exchange program.  I don't 
know if it needs drivers to work with CUPS.  I just ftp files to it and 
it always prints them.

I read on this list a few years ago that the best printers are used HP 
office models.

Best regards,
Fred

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#240119

On 9/18/21 2:00 AM, Jonathan Dowland wrote:
> The direction of travel for printing is entirely driverless, so this is
> less important than it used to be.

Really? If true, that is exceptionally good news. The last time I looked 
at new printers, the "direction of travel" was entirely 
driver-dependent, RIPping the PostScript, PCL, or straight ASCII in the 
driver, rather than in the printer's own processor and firmware, and 
anything that could RIP a PostScript data stream directly would have 
cost a fortune.

--
JHHL

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#240141

Le 18/09/2021 à 17:20, James H. H. Lampert a écrit :
> On 9/18/21 2:00 AM, Jonathan Dowland wrote:
>> The direction of travel for printing is entirely driverless, so this is
>> less important than it used to be.
> 
> Really? If true, that is exceptionally good news. The last time I looked 
> at new printers, the "direction of travel" was entirely 
> driver-dependent, RIPping the PostScript, PCL, or straight ASCII in the 
> driver, rather than in the printer's own processor and firmware, and 
> anything that could RIP a PostScript data stream directly would have 
> cost a fortune.
> 
> -- 
> JHHL
> 
> 
Hi,
I second this, I had to change my printer in a hurry recently and I 
couldn't find anything I liked locally, so had to settle on an Epson 
(ink). I had very bad experiences with this brand in the past driver 
wise, but this time I saw CUPS use automatically the "driver-less" stack 
and I was printing seconds after plugging the machine in. Maybe it 
doesn't provide advanced features, but for a simple printer (not 
"all-in-one" scan/print/whatnot) it works very well, even for image 
printing.

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#240104

On Fri, Sep 17, 2021 at 04:38:27PM -0600, Charles Curley wrote:
> I have an HP Officejet Pro L7700, which is starting to show its age.
> Also HP has discontinued the standard size cartridges. I can get the
> large ones.
> 
> First question:
> 
> I print rarely. Inkjet or laser? Or other? The carts on the L7700 tend
> to go bad before they empty, 

Laser, assuredly. I bought a Samsung a few years ago - unfortunately
that line has now been bought by HP but it's still good and reasonable.

Colour laser - certainly but the consumables are hight cost when you
have to replace them. For you that might be once a decade.

Networked is very necessary: duplex with a high quality feeder is a thing 
I wish I'd been able to afford.

If you have an office supplies / print shop locally, there's a lot to be said
for printing long documents there and having them in a comb binder  even if you
have got a good printer. 

I have a separate scanner (or two): unless you
go up to the top quality office printers, the MFP quality is not great for
scanning.

HP is the most likely to be readily available. It's worth pricing up the
quality of desktop space/power/wiring taken up vs. actual usage: best 
printers do tend to be the larger models though I used a tiny mono printer
for a few years quite successfully.

Hope this helps,

Andy Cater




> 
> -- 
> Does anybody read signatures any more?
> 
> https://charlescurley.com
> https://charlescurley.com/blog/
> 

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