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Groups > linux.debian.user > #239392 > unrolled thread
| Started by | Richard Owlett <rowlett@cloud85.net> |
|---|---|
| First post | 2021-08-28 18:00 +0200 |
| Last post | 2021-08-31 16:10 +0200 |
| Articles | 8 — 6 participants |
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Specifying dedicated partions during install - pros/cons? Richard Owlett <rowlett@cloud85.net> - 2021-08-28 18:00 +0200
Re: Specifying dedicated partions during install - pros/cons? David Wright <deblis@lionunicorn.co.uk> - 2021-08-28 18:40 +0200
Re: Specifying dedicated partions during install - pros/cons? songbird <songbird@anthive.com> - 2021-08-28 21:40 +0200
Re: Specifying dedicated partions during install - pros/cons? Richard Owlett <rowlett@cloud85.net> - 2021-08-29 15:30 +0200
Re: Specifying dedicated partions during install - pros/cons? Andy Smith <andy@strugglers.net> - 2021-08-29 16:40 +0200
Re: Specifying dedicated partions during install - pros/cons? rhkramer@gmail.com - 2021-08-30 13:50 +0200
Re: Specifying dedicated partions during install - pros/cons? Joe <joe@jretrading.com> - 2021-08-29 17:20 +0200
Re: Specifying dedicated partions during install - pros/cons? David Wright <deblis@lionunicorn.co.uk> - 2021-08-31 16:10 +0200
| From | Richard Owlett <rowlett@cloud85.net> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2021-08-28 18:00 +0200 |
| Subject | Specifying dedicated partions during install - pros/cons? |
| Message-ID | <CR8Up-4O1-1@gated-at.bofh.it> |
During the partitioning phase of the install process, the user is given
the option of creating dedicated partitions. I chose to do it for /home
and swap {depending on machine I may also have a dedicated project
partition}.
That the partition phase presents a menu of ~10 choices indicates the
Debian team considers this an significant feature.
Where would I find a discussion of why the particular items rated
inclusion on the menu?
TIA
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| From | David Wright <deblis@lionunicorn.co.uk> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2021-08-28 18:40 +0200 |
| Message-ID | <CR9x8-5g7-9@gated-at.bofh.it> |
| In reply to | #239392 |
On Sat 28 Aug 2021 at 10:34:34 (-0500), Richard Owlett wrote:
> During the partitioning phase of the install process, the user is
> given the option of creating dedicated partitions. I chose to do it
> for /home and swap {depending on machine I may also have a dedicated
> project partition}.
>
> That the partition phase presents a menu of ~10 choices indicates the
> Debian team considers this an significant feature.
>
> Where would I find a discussion of why the particular items rated
> inclusion on the menu?
Do you mean this?
┌────────────────┤ [!!] Partition disks ├────────────────┐
│ │
│ Mount point for this partition: │
│ │
│ / - the root file system │
│ /boot - static files of the boot loader │
│ /home - user home directories │
│ /tmp - temporary files │
│ /usr - static data │
│ /var - variable data │
│ /srv - data for services provided by this system │
│ /opt - add-on application software packages │
│ /usr/local - local hierarchy │
│ Enter manually │
│ Do not mount it │
│ │
│ <Go Back> │
│ │
└────────────────────────────────────────────────────────┘
What's to discuss? They're all there, those that are sensible.
Which would you consider for exclusion from this list?
Or are you suggesting they've missed one? What?
In case you're actually talking about:
┌───────┤ [!!] Partition disks ├───────┐
│ │
│ How to use this partition: │
│ │
│ Ext4 journaling file system │
│ Ext3 journaling file system │
│ Ext2 file system │
│ btrfs journaling file system │
│ JFS journaling file system │
│ XFS journaling file system │
│ FAT16 file system │
│ FAT32 file system │
│ swap area │
│ physical volume for encryption │
│ physical volume for RAID │
│ physical volume for LVM │
│ do not use the partition │
│ │
│ <Go Back> │
│ │
└──────────────────────────────────────┘
then repost (but you might as well give answers as above).
Cheers,
David.
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| From | songbird <songbird@anthive.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2021-08-28 21:40 +0200 |
| Message-ID | <CRclk-6V4-9@gated-at.bofh.it> |
| In reply to | #239395 |
David Wright wrote:
> On Sat 28 Aug 2021 at 10:34:34 (-0500), Richard Owlett wrote:
>> During the partitioning phase of the install process, the user is
>> given the option of creating dedicated partitions. I chose to do it
>> for /home and swap {depending on machine I may also have a dedicated
>> project partition}.
>>
>> That the partition phase presents a menu of ~10 choices indicates the
>> Debian team considers this an significant feature.
>>
>> Where would I find a discussion of why the particular items rated
>> inclusion on the menu?
>
> Do you mean this?
>
> ┌────────────────┤ [!!] Partition disks ├────────────────┐
> │ │
> │ Mount point for this partition: │
> │ │
> │ / - the root file system │
> │ /boot - static files of the boot loader │
> │ /home - user home directories │
> │ /tmp - temporary files │
> │ /usr - static data │
> │ /var - variable data │
> │ /srv - data for services provided by this system │
> │ /opt - add-on application software packages │
> │ /usr/local - local hierarchy │
> │ Enter manually │
> │ Do not mount it │
> │ │
> │ <Go Back> │
> │ │
> └────────────────────────────────────────────────────────┘
>
> What's to discuss? They're all there, those that are sensible.
> Which would you consider for exclusion from this list?
> Or are you suggesting they've missed one? What?
aren't these historically relevant possible choices for someone
doing an expert install?
to find out where they come from you would have to go back
into the early years of unix and then read forwards to see
if you can find where the newer one(s) were added (srv seems
to have been added after the web and web services came along).
> In case you're actually talking about:
>
> ┌───────┤ [!!] Partition disks ├───────┐
> │ │
> │ How to use this partition: │
> │ │
> │ Ext4 journaling file system │
> │ Ext3 journaling file system │
> │ Ext2 file system │
> │ btrfs journaling file system │
> │ JFS journaling file system │
> │ XFS journaling file system │
> │ FAT16 file system │
> │ FAT32 file system │
> │ swap area │
> │ physical volume for encryption │
> │ physical volume for RAID │
> │ physical volume for LVM │
> │ do not use the partition │
> │ │
> │ <Go Back> │
> │ │
> └──────────────────────────────────────┘
>
> then repost (but you might as well give answers as above).
songbird
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| From | Richard Owlett <rowlett@cloud85.net> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2021-08-29 15:30 +0200 |
| Message-ID | <CRt2N-E8-5@gated-at.bofh.it> |
| In reply to | #239400 |
On 08/28/2021 02:33 PM, songbird wrote:
> David Wright wrote:
>> On Sat 28 Aug 2021 at 10:34:34 (-0500), Richard Owlett wrote:
>>> During the partitioning phase of the install process, the user is
>>> given the option of creating dedicated partitions. I chose to do it
>>> for /home and swap {depending on machine I may also have a dedicated
>>> project partition}.
>>>
>>> That the partition phase presents a menu of ~10 choices indicates the
>>> Debian team considers this an significant feature.
>>>
>>> Where would I find a discussion of why the particular items rated
>>> inclusion on the menu?
>>
>> Do you mean this?
>>
>> ┌────────────────┤ [!!] Partition disks ├────────────────┐
>> │ │
>> │ Mount point for this partition: │
>> │ │
>> │ / - the root file system │
>> │ /boot - static files of the boot loader │
>> │ /home - user home directories │
>> │ /tmp - temporary files │
>> │ /usr - static data │
>> │ /var - variable data │
>> │ /srv - data for services provided by this system │
>> │ /opt - add-on application software packages │
>> │ /usr/local - local hierarchy │
>> │ Enter manually │
>> │ Do not mount it │
>> │ │
>> │ <Go Back> │
>> │ │
>> └────────────────────────────────────────────────────────┘
>>
>> What's to discuss? They're all there, those that are sensible.
>> Which would you consider for exclusion from this list?
>> Or are you suggesting they've missed one? What?
My primary question was
"Why were those particular directories mentioned?"
Implied question
"Should I be using a dedicated partition for any of them?"
I think songbird answered that.
>
> aren't these historically relevant possible choices for someone
> doing an expert install?
>
> to find out where they come from you would have to go back
> into the early years of unix and then read forwards to see
> if you can find where the newer one(s) were added (srv seems
> to have been added after the web and web services came along).
>
>
>> [SNIP]
>
> songbird
My use-case may give me a viewpoint with similarities to early Unix
adopters. I have a laptop dedicated to personal experiments installing
Debian.
Why? Because one design goal of the Debian team is to have a *default*
install providing a "good" system to the maximum number of users. I find
some choices made to be very annoying. My reaction is taking full
advantage of another Debian design goal - to have a fully custom
installation done "my way" ;}!
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| From | Andy Smith <andy@strugglers.net> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2021-08-29 16:40 +0200 |
| Message-ID | <CRu8y-1hx-13@gated-at.bofh.it> |
| In reply to | #239433 |
Hello, On Sun, Aug 29, 2021 at 08:27:39AM -0500, Richard Owlett wrote: > > David Wright wrote: > > > Do you mean this? > > > > > > ┌────────────────┤ [!!] Partition disks ├────────────────┐ > > > │ │ > > > │ Mount point for this partition: │ > > > │ │ > > > │ / - the root file system │ > > > │ /boot - static files of the boot loader │ > > > │ /home - user home directories │ > > > │ /tmp - temporary files │ > > > │ /usr - static data │ > > > │ /var - variable data │ > > > │ /srv - data for services provided by this system │ > > > │ /opt - add-on application software packages │ > > > │ /usr/local - local hierarchy │ > > > │ Enter manually │ > > > │ Do not mount it │ > > > │ │ > > > │ <Go Back> │ > > > │ │ > > > └────────────────────────────────────────────────────────┘ > > > > > > What's to discuss? They're all there, those that are sensible. > > > Which would you consider for exclusion from this list? > > > Or are you suggesting they've missed one? What? > > My primary question was > "Why were those particular directories mentioned?" When someone uses multiple filesystems, these are common things to put in them. There's also the "Enter manually" option if the thing you want to put in the filesystem is not listed. > Implied question > "Should I be using a dedicated partition for any of them?" You have already made the decision to create a new filesystem at this time, so it is just giving you a list of common things to put on it. It's not telling you that you *should* have separate mount points for any or all of these. In general it is best to have the simplest layout of filesystems possible that still matches your use case. Most of the time that will be a single partition for everything. Cheers, Andy -- https://bitfolk.com/ -- No-nonsense VPS hosting
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| From | rhkramer@gmail.com |
|---|---|
| Date | 2021-08-30 13:50 +0200 |
| Message-ID | <CRNXA-5m3-13@gated-at.bofh.it> |
| In reply to | #239440 |
On Sunday, August 29, 2021 10:30:53 AM Andy Smith wrote: > In general it is best to have the simplest layout of filesystems > possible that still matches your use case. Most of the time that > will be a single partition for everything. In general I agree. I have had more complicated setups in the past, with more mount points. The one thing I plan to continue to do is this: I try to keep the system (and all its data) separate from what I consider my user data, that being files / stuff (like documents, noters, photos, videos, ...) that I create or download from somewhere. To do that, I fudge the system a little. I let /home/<user> be created but I don't put the stuff I described above as my user data, I create a separate top level directory on a separate partition, typically named /<usernn>. If I have to move all the data to another system, I can do things like move the entire hard disk (physically), or copy it, or ...
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| From | Joe <joe@jretrading.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2021-08-29 17:20 +0200 |
| Message-ID | <CRuLg-1Mu-1@gated-at.bofh.it> |
| In reply to | #239433 |
On Sun, 29 Aug 2021 08:27:39 -0500 Richard Owlett <rowlett@cloud85.net> wrote: > > My primary question was > "Why were those particular directories mentioned?" > Implied question > "Should I be using a dedicated partition for any of them?" > The answer to that question is another question: 'do *you* need to?' Only you know the answer to that. Frequent reinstallation implies a separate /home, but you already know that. A server pretty much requires a separate /var, to avoid logging disasters and other kinds of unexpected unlimited data storage. A server may need other specialised partitions, specific to the application. You may use an application that writes a great deal of data to /tmp, which may then need to be walled-off from the rest of the system. You don't want a separate /usr, unless you are prepared to take the necessary steps to mount it at boot time. And so on... the facility is there for people who already know what they need, and about any implications of their decisions. A knowledge of what software you're running, and the purposes of the traditional filesystem branches, will tell you which, if any, need to be separated. If you're experimenting, or just need a workstation, there's not usually a reason for anything other than a separate /home. I don't even do that, as my /home is just an expendable scratch area, my data lives on a separate server. -- Joe
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| From | David Wright <deblis@lionunicorn.co.uk> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2021-08-31 16:10 +0200 |
| Message-ID | <CScCC-4N1-13@gated-at.bofh.it> |
| In reply to | #239433 |
On Sun 29 Aug 2021 at 08:27:39 (-0500), Richard Owlett wrote:
> On 08/28/2021 02:33 PM, songbird wrote:
> > David Wright wrote:
> > > On Sat 28 Aug 2021 at 10:34:34 (-0500), Richard Owlett wrote:
> > > > During the partitioning phase of the install process, the user is
> > > > given the option of creating dedicated partitions. I chose to do it
> > > > for /home and swap {depending on machine I may also have a dedicated
> > > > project partition}.
> > > >
> > > > That the partition phase presents a menu of ~10 choices indicates the
> > > > Debian team considers this an significant feature.
> > > >
> > > > Where would I find a discussion of why the particular items rated
> > > > inclusion on the menu?
> > >
> > > Do you mean this?
> > >
> > > ┌────────────────┤ [!!] Partition disks ├────────────────┐
> > > │ │
> > > │ Mount point for this partition: │
> > > │ │
> > > │ / - the root file system │
> > > │ /boot - static files of the boot loader │
> > > │ /home - user home directories │
> > > │ /tmp - temporary files │
> > > │ /usr - static data │
> > > │ /var - variable data │
> > > │ /srv - data for services provided by this system │
> > > │ /opt - add-on application software packages │
> > > │ /usr/local - local hierarchy │
> > > │ Enter manually │
> > > │ Do not mount it │
> > > │ │
> > > │ <Go Back> │
> > > │ │
> > > └────────────────────────────────────────────────────────┘
> > >
> > > What's to discuss? They're all there, those that are sensible.
> > > Which would you consider for exclusion from this list?
> > > Or are you suggesting they've missed one? What?
>
> My primary question was
> "Why were those particular directories mentioned?"
> Implied question
> "Should I be using a dedicated partition for any of them?"
Oh my, and just as I was feeling happy with myself for having taken your
https://lists.debian.org/debian-user/2021/03/msg00221.html
to heart.
> I think songbird answered that.
Hmm. I think Joe has answered your Implied question. There's no
"should", and no one else can make the decision for you, as it
depends on how you intend using the system.
> > aren't these historically relevant possible choices for someone
> > doing an expert install?
I'm not sure why they're only /historically/ relevant …
> > to find out where they come from you would have to go back
> > into the early years of unix and then read forwards to see
> > if you can find where the newer one(s) were added (srv seems
> > to have been added after the web and web services came along).
… but I can see that you need to be a historian to understand the
evolution of unix, to track down where, for example, /opt originated.
That's without considering the origins (and naming) of /usr, /bin,
/sbin etc, where everyone has a slightly different story.
AIUI /srv originated with RedHat, was picked up by the FHS and hence
entered Debian, possibly around the time of sarge.
> My use-case may give me a viewpoint with similarities to early Unix
> adopters. I have a laptop dedicated to personal experiments installing
> Debian.
>
> Why? Because one design goal of the Debian team is to have a *default*
> install providing a "good" system to the maximum number of users. I
> find some choices made to be very annoying. My reaction is taking full
> advantage of another Debian design goal - to have a fully custom
> installation done "my way" ;}!
As the last two lines show (Enter manually // Do not mount it), the
team try not to get in your way. And you can of course partition your
disk(s) before you start, as you are presumably aware.
Cheers,
David.
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