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Still on stretch, getting ready for bullseye

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  Still on stretch, getting ready for bullseye Gene Heskett <gheskett@shentel.net> - 2021-08-17 13:30 +0200
    Re: Still on stretch, getting ready for bullseye Dan Ritter <dsr@randomstring.org> - 2021-08-17 14:10 +0200
      Re: Still on stretch, getting ready for bullseye Greg Wooledge <greg@wooledge.org> - 2021-08-17 15:10 +0200
        Re: Still on stretch, getting ready for bullseye Greg Wooledge <greg@wooledge.org> - 2021-08-17 15:20 +0200
        Re: Still on stretch, getting ready for bullseye Polyna-Maude Racicot-Summerside <debian@polynamaude.com> - 2021-08-17 15:30 +0200
        Re: Still on stretch, getting ready for bullseye Gene Heskett <gheskett@shentel.net> - 2021-08-17 16:10 +0200
          Re: Still on stretch, getting ready for bullseye David Wright <deblis@lionunicorn.co.uk> - 2021-08-17 21:20 +0200
            Re: Still on stretch, getting ready for bullseye The Wanderer <wanderer@fastmail.fm> - 2021-08-18 13:30 +0200
      Re: Still on stretch, getting ready for bullseye Gene Heskett <gheskett@shentel.net> - 2021-08-17 15:10 +0200
        Re: Still on stretch, getting ready for bullseye Gene Heskett <gheskett@shentel.net> - 2021-08-17 15:30 +0200
      Re: Still on stretch, getting ready for bullseye songbird <songbird@anthive.com> - 2021-08-18 04:10 +0200
    Re: Still on stretch, getting ready for bullseye "Andrew M.A. Cater" <amacater@einval.com> - 2021-08-17 18:10 +0200
      Re: Still on stretch, getting ready for bullseye Brian <ad44@cityscape.co.uk> - 2021-08-17 19:40 +0200
        Re: Still on stretch, getting ready for bullseye Brian <ad44@cityscape.co.uk> - 2021-08-17 19:50 +0200
        Re: Still on stretch, getting ready for bullseye Greg Wooledge <greg@wooledge.org> - 2021-08-17 19:50 +0200
        Reading of release notes (was Re: Still on stretch, getting ready  for bullseye) The Wanderer <wanderer@fastmail.fm> - 2021-08-18 13:40 +0200
          Re: Reading of release notes (was Re: Still on stretch, getting ready for bullseye) rhkramer@gmail.com - 2021-08-18 14:30 +0200
            Re: Reading of release notes (was Re: Still on stretch, getting ready for bullseye) Anssi Saari <as@sci.fi> - 2021-08-18 15:10 +0200
              Re: Reading of release notes (was Re: Still on stretch, getting  ready for bullseye) songbird <songbird@anthive.com> - 2021-08-19 14:30 +0200
                Re: Reading of release notes (was Re: Still on stretch, getting ready for bullseye) Anssi Saari <as@sci.fi> - 2021-08-20 11:30 +0200
                Re: Reading of release notes (was Re: Still on stretch, getting ready  for bullseye) piorunz <piorunz@gmx.com> - 2021-08-20 13:00 +0200
                  Re: Reading of release notes (was Re: Still on stretch, getting  ready for bullseye) Greg Wooledge <greg@wooledge.org> - 2021-08-20 13:50 +0200
                    Re: Reading of release notes (was Re: Still on stretch, getting ready  for bullseye) piorunz <piorunz@gmx.com> - 2021-08-20 15:40 +0200
                      Re: Reading of release notes (was Re: Still on stretch, getting  ready for bullseye) songbird <songbird@anthive.com> - 2021-08-21 02:40 +0200
            Re: Reading of release notes (was Re: Still on stretch, getting  ready for bullseye) songbird <songbird@anthive.com> - 2021-08-19 14:50 +0200
          Re: Reading of release notes (was Re: Still on stretch, getting  ready for bullseye) David Wright <deblis@lionunicorn.co.uk> - 2021-08-18 18:30 +0200
            Re: Reading of release notes (was Re: Still on stretch, getting  ready for bullseye) "Andrew M.A. Cater" <amacater@einval.com> - 2021-08-18 23:20 +0200
      Re: Still on stretch, getting ready for bullseye Gene Heskett <gheskett@shentel.net> - 2021-08-17 23:00 +0200
        Re: Still on stretch, getting ready for bullseye Greg Wooledge <greg@wooledge.org> - 2021-08-17 23:00 +0200
          Re: Still on stretch, getting ready for bullseye piorunz <piorunz@gmx.com> - 2021-08-17 23:50 +0200
            Re: Still on stretch, getting ready for bullseye Gene Heskett <gheskett@shentel.net> - 2021-08-18 03:40 +0200
          Re: Still on stretch, getting ready for bullseye Gene Heskett <gheskett@shentel.net> - 2021-08-18 02:10 +0200
            Re: Still on stretch, getting ready for bullseye Kushal Kumaran <kushal@locationd.net> - 2021-08-18 03:40 +0200
        Re: Still on stretch, getting ready for bullseye Brian <ad44@cityscape.co.uk> - 2021-08-18 00:10 +0200
          Re: Still on stretch, getting ready for bullseye "Andrew M.A. Cater" <amacater@einval.com> - 2021-08-18 00:50 +0200
            Re: Still on stretch, getting ready for bullseye Brian <ad44@cityscape.co.uk> - 2021-08-18 01:30 +0200
              Re: Still on stretch, getting ready for bullseye Polyna-Maude Racicot-Summerside <debian@polynamaude.com> - 2021-08-19 07:40 +0200
            Re: Still on stretch, getting ready for bullseye piorunz <piorunz@gmx.com> - 2021-08-18 03:00 +0200
              Re: Still on stretch, getting ready for bullseye David Wright <deblis@lionunicorn.co.uk> - 2021-08-18 05:30 +0200
              Re: Still on stretch, getting ready for bullseye <tomas@tuxteam.de> - 2021-08-18 09:00 +0200
                Re: Still on stretch, getting ready for bullseye piorunz <piorunz@gmx.com> - 2021-08-18 13:10 +0200
            Re: Still on stretch, getting ready for bullseye Gene Heskett <gheskett@shentel.net> - 2021-08-18 03:50 +0200
              Re: Still on stretch, getting ready for bullseye Greg Wooledge <greg@wooledge.org> - 2021-08-18 04:10 +0200
                Re: Still on stretch, getting ready for bullseye <tomas@tuxteam.de> - 2021-08-18 09:10 +0200
                  Re: Still on stretch, getting ready for bullseye Tixy <tixy@yxit.co.uk> - 2021-08-18 10:20 +0200
                    Re: Still on stretch, getting ready for bullseye "Andrew M.A. Cater" <amacater@einval.com> - 2021-08-18 14:10 +0200
                      Re: Still on stretch, getting ready for bullseye Gene Heskett <gheskett@shentel.net> - 2021-08-18 19:30 +0200
                Re: Still on stretch, getting ready for bullseye Tixy <tixy@yxit.co.uk> - 2021-08-18 09:50 +0200
                  Re: Still on stretch, getting ready for bullseye Tixy <tixy@yxit.co.uk> - 2021-08-18 10:40 +0200
                    Re: Still on stretch, getting ready for bullseye Curt <curty@free.fr> - 2021-08-20 20:20 +0200
                  Re: Still on stretch, getting ready for bullseye piorunz <piorunz@gmx.com> - 2021-08-18 12:40 +0200
                  Re: Still on stretch, getting ready for bullseye Curt <curty@free.fr> - 2021-08-19 18:00 +0200
            Re: Still on stretch, getting ready for bullseye Gene Heskett <gheskett@shentel.net> - 2021-08-18 12:40 +0200
          Re: Still on stretch, getting ready for bullseye Polyna-Maude Racicot-Summerside <debian@polynamaude.com> - 2021-08-19 07:30 +0200
    Re: Still on stretch, getting ready for bullseye David Christensen <dpchrist@holgerdanske.com> - 2021-08-17 21:10 +0200

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#239083 — Re: Reading of release notes (was Re: Still on stretch, getting ready for bullseye)

On 19/08/2021 13:21, songbird wrote:
> when i changed motherboards i figured it was worth a fresh
> install

This line of thought probably comes from Windows, when any hardware
change causes problems, drivers installation, it can refuse to boot,
etc. Not a problem on Debian :)

Motherboard or even CPU model or manufacturer has no effect on Debian
installation. Look at LiveCD images, they work on everything. Your
system also works on everything unless you specifically disabled some
modules, recompiled kernel just for your hardware, and so on.

I sometimes use persistent Linux on a stick, to boot any computer with
my Linux distro, instead of typical LiveCD, for diagnostics or
maintenance. I am yet to find a computer where my USB stick wouldn't
boot. And that's normal installed OS, not LiveCD. It's full meat, latest
Linux Mint, compressed Btrfs, with all updates and plenty of software
installed.

--

With kindest regards, piorunz.

⢀⣴⠾⠻⢶⣦⠀
⣾⠁⢠⠒⠀⣿⡁ Debian - The universal operating system
⢿⡄⠘⠷⠚⠋⠀ https://www.debian.org
⠈⠳⣄⠀⠀⠀⠀

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#239085 — Re: Reading of release notes (was Re: Still on stretch, getting ready for bullseye)

On Fri, Aug 20, 2021 at 11:55:32AM +0100, piorunz wrote:
> On 19/08/2021 13:21, songbird wrote:
> > when i changed motherboards i figured it was worth a fresh
> > install
> 
> This line of thought probably comes from Windows, when any hardware
> change causes problems, drivers installation, it can refuse to boot,
> etc. Not a problem on Debian :)

It can be.  Any change to the hardware, or even the mobo firmware, can
cause PCI data to change, which means "predictable" network interface
names can change.

Installation of a new video or (wireless) network card may require the
installation of a new (non-free) driver in some cases.

But overall, yes.  Debian handles hardware changes more gracefully than
some other operating systems have historically done.

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#239088 — Re: Reading of release notes (was Re: Still on stretch, getting ready for bullseye)

On 20/08/2021 12:40, Greg Wooledge wrote:

>> This line of thought probably comes from Windows, when any hardware
>> change causes problems, drivers installation, it can refuse to boot,
>> etc. Not a problem on Debian :)
>
> It can be.  Any change to the hardware, or even the mobo firmware, can
> cause PCI data to change, which means "predictable" network interface
> names can change.

New install would change network interface name anyway.

> Installation of a new video or (wireless) network card may require the
> installation of a new (non-free) driver in some cases.

Of course, just like normal install.
>
> But overall, yes.  Debian handles hardware changes more gracefully than
> some other operating systems have historically done.

Yes I agree. Overall, Debian will almost always survive hardware change.
If required, tweak things to make it back to normal. Still, even with
that it's so much less work to do than new install.

--

With kindest regards, piorunz.

⢀⣴⠾⠻⢶⣦⠀
⣾⠁⢠⠒⠀⣿⡁ Debian - The universal operating system
⢿⡄⠘⠷⠚⠋⠀ https://www.debian.org
⠈⠳⣄⠀⠀⠀⠀

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#239105 — Re: Reading of release notes (was Re: Still on stretch, getting ready for bullseye)

piorunz wrote:
...
> New install would change network interface name anyway.

  net.ifnames=0 works for me in that regards.


  songbird

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#239040 — Re: Reading of release notes (was Re: Still on stretch, getting ready for bullseye)

rhkramer@gmail.com wrote:
...
> Aside: I have never (to the best of my recollection) done an upgrade from one 
> version to the next, I install the new version on a clean disk (or new system) 
> -- the only time I could envision doing an upgrade would be if stable became a 
> rolling release.

  running testing is pretty much like running a rolling release.
except of course, when it is frozen at times.

  because i've also got a different stable partition which is
only updated after point releases i don't mind risking the
once in a while snafu that i have to work through.

  my morning routine is to watch what comes through in the
package updates and set some aside if i think they might be
too intrusive and i'm in the middle of something else.

  this is more than most people probably want to do but i
don't mind it - it keeps me in tune with what is changing.  :)


  songbird

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#238973 — Re: Reading of release notes (was Re: Still on stretch, getting ready for bullseye)

On Wed 18 Aug 2021 at 07:39:26 (-0400), The Wanderer wrote:
> On 2021-08-17 at 13:36, Brian wrote:
> > On Tue 17 Aug 2021 at 16:00:57 +0000, Andrew M.A. Cater wrote:
> 
> >> Do the update to Buster - take it as slow as you need to. Bring it
> >> bang up to date.
> >> 
> >> For the Buster to Bullseye -
> >> 
> >> READ RELEASE NOTES :)
> > 
> > Of course! Do users not do this as a standard procedure? :)
> 
> I don't - because I don't upgrade from one stable release to another; I
> track testing, continuously, throughout the development cycle. As such,
> there is no point in the release cycle at which it makes sense for me to
> read the release notes; at the start of the release cycle they don't
> exist yet, so there's nothing for me to read, and by the time they're
> finalized and the release is ready, I'm already fully upgraded.

That seems perfectly reasonable: the issues that get included in the
Release Notes also get discussed here at the time they become issues.
And it also means that you never Upgrade from one release to the next.

> It always bothers me to see "read the release notes!" hammered on as a
> reasonable thing to expect users to do, in terms which presents users
> who fail to do so as unreasonable. It probably does make sense in the
> relatively limited (if also probably relatively common) case of
> upgrading from (old)stable to stable, but it is certainly not so
> universal a matter as to make failing to do it so inappropriate that
> hammering on it in such absolute terms becomes appropriate.

So exactly what's /bothering/ you? As a bystander.

If someone left a job on secondment, and then returned after two years,
they'd expect to be briefed on any changes in their responsibilities,
not just left to find out each time the shit hit the fan because they
hadn't foreseen a problem coming. If I was working under them,
I wouldn't want them shifting all the troubleshooting (or worse, the
responsibility) onto me just because they couldn't be bothered to get
up to speed.

> IMO, "fixing" an upgrade-related issue by documenting it in the release
> notes is not *and cannot be* enough; it has to be fixed in the relevant
> package(s), whether by making it not happen or by documenting it (and/or
> pointing to a place where documentation of that specific issue can be
> found) in a place which will be seen at the time when the upgrade is
> performed.

Many of these "fixes" are actually changes. Some of them are optional
changes that have to be decided upon and, once made, can't be rolled
back. Are you seriously suggesting sysadmins want to make decisions
like that in the middle of the upgrade, rather than at leisure before
they start? Or prolong the upgrade process by being referred to
documentation while services are stopped or being modified?

> Also IMO, the cases in which it is reasonable to expect users to seek
> out and read release notes before upgrading are quite limited; the
> release notes are useful as reference documentation for potential issues
> and for planning an upgrade if one wants to do that, but reading the
> release notes is not an inherent part of the upgrade process, and any
> design which assumes that it is or should be is IMO a broken design.

So it's "broken" for Debian to allow people to run non-Debian packages
(§4.2.2), be behind on point release (§4.2.3), run obsolete packages
(§4.2.5), have any cruft (§4.2.6), use any unofficial sources (§4.2.9)
or pin any packages (§4.2.10).

After all, it's not possible to even detect every one of these,
and certainly not "fix" them. If every package had to be able to
do any of that, nothing would make it out of the door. And how
exactly would you test all these contingencies? You're just
pushing all the sysadmins' responsibilities onto the DDs.

> (That latter is true for any product, not just for Debian.)

Sadly, this attitude has permeated a lot of organisations, which now
feel able to introduce major (changes to their) software with very
little guidance or training. Users are told to just "play around"
with it, to find out how to do the jobs that they were perfectly
able to do before. Never mind the fact that the organisation relies
on those jobs being completed in as timely a fashion as before.

And, of course, one result is that little cheatsheets of poor working
practices get passed around, because one person happens upon a shaky
procedure that might usually work.

> At the very least, if you want to get people to read the release notes
> before upgrading, you should arrange for the upgrade process to include
> a prominent "have you read the release notes yet?" prompt (with an
> option to cancel) before anything irrevocable is done. People could
> still ignore that, but it would at least bring the idea of reading the
> release notes into the actual upgrade procedure itself, rather than
> being an out-of-band thing which people have to think of and go out of
> their way to do manually before starting the upgrade.

Have you got a mechanism for that? Let's see:

. Keep a SHA digest of each machine's sources.list and sources.d/*,
  and nag if it is seen to change. Any change.
  Synaptic users will love that, as any use of its editor would
  have to be followed by a good nagging, in case they might hit
  Upgrade.

. Any Release Day should cock the hammer worldwide on any system that
  includes any strings like *stable or testing in its sources.list,
  so that the next upgrade attempt will trigger a good nagging.

The alternative for people who run rolling upgrades—let the world of
big Upgrades pass you by, without getting concerned or bothered by it.

Cheers,
David.

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#238982 — Re: Reading of release notes (was Re: Still on stretch, getting ready for bullseye)

On Wed, Aug 18, 2021 at 11:26:18AM -0500, David Wright wrote:
> On Wed 18 Aug 2021 at 07:39:26 (-0400), The Wanderer wrote:
> > On 2021-08-17 at 13:36, Brian wrote:
> > > On Tue 17 Aug 2021 at 16:00:57 +0000, Andrew M.A. Cater wrote:
> > 
> > >> Do the update to Buster - take it as slow as you need to. Bring it
> > >> bang up to date.
> > >> 
> > >> For the Buster to Bullseye -
> > >> 
> > >> READ RELEASE NOTES :)
> > > 
> > > Of course! Do users not do this as a standard procedure? :)
> > 
> > I don't - because I don't upgrade from one stable release to another; I
> > track testing, continuously, throughout the development cycle. As such,
> > there is no point in the release cycle at which it makes sense for me to
> > read the release notes; at the start of the release cycle they don't
> > exist yet, so there's nothing for me to read, and by the time they're
> > finalized and the release is ready, I'm already fully upgraded.
> 
> That seems perfectly reasonable: the issues that get included in the
> Release Notes also get discussed here at the time they become issues.
> And it also means that you never Upgrade from one release to the next.
> 

I've just spent the best part of my weekend hammering out installs as
part of the media team. I'm one of these people that tends to run stable
Debian - I don't bother reading release notes as a general rule if I 
think I know what I'm doing - meh, documentation, who needs it :)

I've spent a chunk of time on the #debian IRC channels. Lots of people 
hitting a difference between apt-get and apt behaviour as the labels
changed. It turns out that apt-get apparently requires you to take
action and approve something, apt just does it. Query raised several
times: it's in the release notes if anybody bothered to check - that's
the reason why apt is recommended as far as I can see.

This time round, the /etc/apt/sources.list files have changed for the
security repo line. Again, lots of people asking the same sort of 
question. If you're doing two full upgrades - go back a couple of years
and look to see what the first set of notes tell you because you will
have forgotten - that was my rationale for saying to read the release
notes in screaming capitals. It was a more visible reminder.

If anyone chooses to run testing continuously - they know the security 
status, they know to expect huge churn just after a release / when a 
new version of GNOME / KDE is being assembled and there are library
transitions and so on. Each to their own for something like this: there's
no "royal road to Debian" that is the one true way to do things.

> > It always bothers me to see "read the release notes!" hammered on as a
> > reasonable thing to expect users to do, in terms which presents users
> > who fail to do so as unreasonable. It probably does make sense in the
> > relatively limited (if also probably relatively common) case of
> > upgrading from (old)stable to stable, but it is certainly not so
> > universal a matter as to make failing to do it so inappropriate that
> > hammering on it in such absolute terms becomes appropriate.
> 
> So exactly what's /bothering/ you? As a bystander.

As a bystander, it bugged me far more today to see someone banging on
a configuration file as root today without taking a copy beforehand.
[Or in fact generally not taking a backup of a config file before
you rewrite it: I'm a coward in the light of bad experiences and still
screw things up after 20++ years of routine daily Debian use].

> Cheers,
> David.
> 

Thanks to all for sharing perspectives.

All the very best, as ever,

Andy Cater

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#238915

On Tuesday 17 August 2021 12:00:57 Andrew M.A. Cater wrote:

> On Tue, Aug 17, 2021 at 07:24:45AM -0400, Gene Heskett wrote:
> > Greetings all;
> >
> > I just installed another sata controller and 4 1 T-byte Samsung
> > SSD's.
> >
> > The controller claims to be a 15 port port expander, but only 6 are
> > bonded out, and collectively show up at ata7 in dmesg.
> >
> > They show up as /dev/sde/f/g/h but have not otherwise been touched.
> >
> > So I thought I'd make sure I was up to date, annd possibly install
> > some raid-ish stuff to prepare this array for use as /home in the
> > bullseye install, but something is ay least 5000% aglay.
> >
> > sudo apt update says it wants to gut much of the system and upgrade
> > 2588 packages. Yet my repo list looks like its normal stretch.
> >
> > What is going on? Do I wind up on buster or should I kiss it all
> > goodbye?
> >
> > Thanks.
> >
> > Cheers, Gene Heskett
> > --
> > "There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
> >  soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
> > -Ed Howdershelt (Author)
> > If we desire respect for the law, we must first make the law
> > respectable. - Louis D. Brandeis
> > Genes Web page <http://geneslinuxbox.net:6309/gene>
>
> I think the others have mostly covered this but:
>
> Do the update to Buster - take it as slow as you need to. Bring it
> bang up to date.

Where do I find the recipe to update stretch to buster?

Thank you Andrew.

> For the Buster to Bullseye -
>
> READ RELEASE NOTES :)
>
> Use apt.
>
> Change sources list. https://wiki.debian.org/SourcesList
>
> apt update
>
> apt upgrade
>
> [That will upgrade any services / packages that can be upgraded
> in place without compromising anything else.]
>
> apt full-upgrade
>
> [Which will do the final upgrade and sort otu the warning messages
> about distribution has changed etc.]
>
> Good luck, should be relatively straightforward.
>
> Andy Cater


Cheers, Gene Heskett
-- 
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author)
If we desire respect for the law, we must first make the law respectable.
 - Louis D. Brandeis
Genes Web page <http://geneslinuxbox.net:6309/gene>

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#238916

On Tue, Aug 17, 2021 at 04:54:54PM -0400, Gene Heskett wrote:
> Where do I find the recipe to update stretch to buster?

It's still at <https://www.debian.org/releases/buster/amd64/release-notes/>.

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#238917

On 17/08/2021 21:57, Greg Wooledge wrote:
> On Tue, Aug 17, 2021 at 04:54:54PM -0400, Gene Heskett wrote:
>> Where do I find the recipe to update stretch to buster?
>
> It's still at <https://www.debian.org/releases/buster/amd64/release-notes/>.


Or to by more precise, that's what most important to thread author:

https://www.debian.org/releases/buster/amd64/release-notes/ch-upgrading.en.html


--

With kindest regards, piorunz.

⢀⣴⠾⠻⢶⣦⠀
⣾⠁⢠⠒⠀⣿⡁ Debian - The universal operating system
⢿⡄⠘⠷⠚⠋⠀ https://www.debian.org
⠈⠳⣄⠀⠀⠀⠀

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#238934

On Tuesday 17 August 2021 17:45:49 piorunz wrote:

> On 17/08/2021 21:57, Greg Wooledge wrote:
> > On Tue, Aug 17, 2021 at 04:54:54PM -0400, Gene Heskett wrote:
> >> Where do I find the recipe to update stretch to buster?
> >
> > It's still at
> > <https://www.debian.org/releases/buster/amd64/release-notes/>.
>
> Or to by more precise, that's what most important to thread author:
>
> https://www.debian.org/releases/buster/amd64/release-notes/ch-upgradin
>g.en.html
>
Lots closer to what I am looking for.  Thank you.
> --
>
> With kindest regards, piorunz.
>
> ⢀⣴⠾⠻⢶⣦⠀
> ⣾⠁⢠⠒⠀⣿⡁ Debian - The universal operating system
> ⢿⡄⠘⠷⠚⠋⠀ https://www.debian.org
> ⠈⠳⣄⠀⠀⠀⠀


Cheers, Gene Heskett
-- 
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author)
If we desire respect for the law, we must first make the law respectable.
 - Louis D. Brandeis
Genes Web page <http://geneslinuxbox.net:6309/gene>

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#238928

On Tuesday 17 August 2021 16:57:44 Greg Wooledge wrote:

> On Tue, Aug 17, 2021 at 04:54:54PM -0400, Gene Heskett wrote:
> > Where do I find the recipe to update stretch to buster?
>
> It's still at
> <https://www.debian.org/releases/buster/amd64/release-notes/>.

Thats fine but its html in little pieces, so if the update destroys my 
network. I'm DIW. so where is the complete .pdf so I can read hard copy 
without a network?

Thank you.

Cheers, Gene Heskett
-- 
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author)
If we desire respect for the law, we must first make the law respectable.
 - Louis D. Brandeis
Genes Web page <http://geneslinuxbox.net:6309/gene>

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#238931

On Tue, Aug 17 2021 at 08:01:46 PM, Gene Heskett <gheskett@shentel.net> wrote:
> On Tuesday 17 August 2021 16:57:44 Greg Wooledge wrote:
>
>> On Tue, Aug 17, 2021 at 04:54:54PM -0400, Gene Heskett wrote:
>> > Where do I find the recipe to update stretch to buster?
>>
>> It's still at
>> <https://www.debian.org/releases/buster/amd64/release-notes/>.
>
> Thats fine but its html in little pieces, so if the update destroys my 
> network. I'm DIW. so where is the complete .pdf so I can read hard copy 
> without a network?
>

All the versions of the buster release notes are at
https://www.debian.org/releases/buster/releasenotes

-- 
regards,
kushal

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#238918

On Tue 17 Aug 2021 at 16:54:54 -0400, Gene Heskett wrote:

> Where do I find the recipe to update stretch to buster?

What, in this helpful thread, do you find difficult to understand?

You have a collection of important machines in your charge. The
complexity of managing them does not appear to be your forte. Eptness
appears to have deserted you.

Stick wuth what you have. It is less strain on you and on us. :)

-- 
Brian.
> 
> 

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#238921

On Tue, Aug 17, 2021 at 11:05:44PM +0100, Brian wrote:
> On Tue 17 Aug 2021 at 16:54:54 -0400, Gene Heskett wrote:
> 
> > Where do I find the recipe to update stretch to buster?
> 
> What, in this helpful thread, do you find difficult to understand?
> 
> You have a collection of important machines in your charge. The
> complexity of managing them does not appear to be your forte. Eptness
> appears to have deserted you.
> 
> Stick wuth what you have. It is less strain on you and on us. :)
> 
> -- 
> Brian.
> > 
> > 
> 

Brian - maybe a bit more consideration? Any of us can be exasperating but 
it's worth spending some time with Gene to get it right.

Gene,

You have two upgrades to do.

One from stretch -> buster. 9-10 That takes you from 2017 -> 2019.

If you can reduce your /etc/apt/sources.list by commenting out third party
repositories like Trinity, that will help.

[Taken from https://wiki.debian.org/LTS/Using]

The Stretch /etc/apt/sources.list should look like this:

deb http://deb.debian.org/debian/ stretch main contrib non-free
deb-src http://deb.debian.org/debian/ stretch main contrib non-free

deb http://security.debian.org/ stretch/updates main contrib non-free
deb-src http://security.debian.org/ stretch/updates main contrib non-free

Bring Stretch up to date finally: apt update ; apt full-upgrade

Go find the release notes for Buster:

https://www.debian.org/releases/buster/amd64/release-notes/index.en.html -
especially Section 4 and 5

Buster sources.list - Buster was the first list to use deb.debian.org 
extensively

deb http://deb.debian.org/debian/ buster main contrib non-free
deb-src http://deb.debian.org/debian/ buster main contrib non-free

deb http://security.debian.org/debian-security buster/updates main contrib non-free
deb-src http://security.debian.org/debian-security buster/updates main contrib non-free

[Taken from https://wiki.debian.org/DebianUpgrade]

Use apt update ; apt upgrade ; apt full-upgrade (optionally apt autoremove)

Buster to Bullseye - 10-11 - 2019-2021

Follow the same process again, essentially

Bullseye sources.list

deb http://deb.debian.org/debian bullseye main contrib non-free
deb-src http://deb.debian.org/debian bullseye main contrib non-free

deb http://deb.debian.org/debian-security/ bullseye-security main contrib non-free
deb-src http://deb.debian.org/debian-security/ bullseye-security main contrib non-free

deb http://deb.debian.org/debian bullseye-updates main contrib non-free
deb-src http://deb.debian.org/debian bullseye-updates main contrib non-free

Uncomment third party repositories - change appropriately, then apt update ; apt upgrade ; apt full-upgrade

It's worth taking time to do this and writing down what step you've taken 
(or just print off the appropriate pages and use them as a tick list) There's a lot to do and it's _easy_ to mess up.

Take care - all best, as always,

Andy Cater

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#238926

On Tue 17 Aug 2021 at 22:48:34 +0000, Andrew M.A. Cater wrote:

> On Tue, Aug 17, 2021 at 11:05:44PM +0100, Brian wrote:
> > On Tue 17 Aug 2021 at 16:54:54 -0400, Gene Heskett wrote:
> > 
> > > Where do I find the recipe to update stretch to buster?
> > 
> > What, in this helpful thread, do you find difficult to understand?
> > 
> > You have a collection of important machines in your charge. The
> > complexity of managing them does not appear to be your forte. Eptness
> > appears to have deserted you.
> > 
> > Stick wuth what you have. It is less strain on you and on us. :)
> > 
> > -- 
> > Brian.
> > > 
> > > 
> > 
> 
> Brian - maybe a bit more consideration? Any of us can be exasperating but 
> it's worth spending some time with Gene to get it right.

I was the eptiomy of consideration. The OP is a very experienced user.
He knows what the score is and is quite capable of sorting out update
and upgrade issues if he puts his mind to it..

-- 
Brian.

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#239004

[Multipart message — attachments visible in raw view] — view raw

On 2021-08-17 7:21 p.m., Brian wrote:
> On Tue 17 Aug 2021 at 22:48:34 +0000, Andrew M.A. Cater wrote:
> 
>> On Tue, Aug 17, 2021 at 11:05:44PM +0100, Brian wrote:
>>> On Tue 17 Aug 2021 at 16:54:54 -0400, Gene Heskett wrote:
>>>
>>>> Where do I find the recipe to update stretch to buster?
>>>
>>> What, in this helpful thread, do you find difficult to understand?
>>>
>>> You have a collection of important machines in your charge. The
>>> complexity of managing them does not appear to be your forte. Eptness
>>> appears to have deserted you.
>>>
>>> Stick wuth what you have. It is less strain on you and on us. :)
>>>
>>> -- 
>>> Brian.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>
>> Brian - maybe a bit more consideration? Any of us can be exasperating but 
>> it's worth spending some time with Gene to get it right.
> 
> I was the eptiomy of consideration. The OP is a very experienced user.
> He knows what the score is and is quite capable of sorting out update
> and upgrade issues if he puts his mind to it..
> 
And you can surely back off a bit of all the negatives comment. If you
think the OP can take care of upgrade then I think you can also keep all
this negative for your own self.

Seems like you are too good for being here. That's sad but it's true.

You seem to be very experienced in the matters of using a mailing list
and a mail client, but still can put your mind to giving something
useful in comments or simply refrain from being rude.

If you don't like what someone ask for, you can simply go on and don't
answer.

There's thousands of user on this mailing list. You don't have to be
part of the handful of user who answer.

-- 
Polyna-Maude R.-Summerside
-Be smart, Be wise, Support opensource development

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#238929

On 17/08/2021 23:48, Andrew M.A. Cater wrote:
> Gene,
>
> You have two upgrades to do.
>
> One from stretch -> buster. 9-10 That takes you from 2017 -> 2019.
>
> If you can reduce your /etc/apt/sources.list by commenting out third party
> repositories like Trinity, that will help.

Why are you repeating this? Gene already has been given (at least) two
links to the same Debian manual, which takes him through this process
and it specifically says to disable all third party repos. It doesn't
need to be repeated again, if he ignores this is means he failed to RTFM
and we cannot help with this condition, user must learn himself.

--

With kindest regards, piorunz.

⢀⣴⠾⠻⢶⣦⠀
⣾⠁⢠⠒⠀⣿⡁ Debian - The universal operating system
⢿⡄⠘⠷⠚⠋⠀ https://www.debian.org
⠈⠳⣄⠀⠀⠀⠀

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#238938

On Wed 18 Aug 2021 at 01:53:16 (+0100), piorunz wrote:
> On 17/08/2021 23:48, Andrew M.A. Cater wrote:
> > Gene,
> > 
> > You have two upgrades to do.
> > 
> > One from stretch -> buster. 9-10 That takes you from 2017 -> 2019.
> > 
> > If you can reduce your /etc/apt/sources.list by commenting out third party
> > repositories like Trinity, that will help.
> 
> Why are you repeating this? Gene already has been given (at least) two
> links to the same Debian manual, which takes him through this process
> and it specifically says to disable all third party repos. It doesn't
> need to be repeated again, if he ignores this is means he failed to RTFM
> and we cannot help with this condition, user must learn himself.

“Events, dear boy, events.”

Cheers,
David.

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#238942

[Multipart message — attachments visible in raw view] — view raw

On Wed, Aug 18, 2021 at 01:53:16AM +0100, piorunz wrote:
> On 17/08/2021 23:48, Andrew M.A. Cater wrote:
> >Gene,
> >
> >You have two upgrades to do.
> >
> >One from stretch -> buster. 9-10 That takes you from 2017 -> 2019.
> >
> >If you can reduce your /etc/apt/sources.list by commenting out third party
> >repositories like Trinity, that will help.
> 
> Why are you repeating this?

Because Andrew is a nice person. Which I do appreciate highly.
Why shouldn't he? Why would you not want him to do?

Cheers
 - t

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