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Groups > linux.debian.user > #238125 > unrolled thread

HOW's lost @ $ €

Started byGunnar Gervin <dofeelok@gmail.com>
First post2021-08-04 12:40 +0200
Last post2021-08-04 15:10 +0200
Articles 20 on this page of 30 — 12 participants

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Contents

  HOW's lost @ $ € Gunnar Gervin <dofeelok@gmail.com> - 2021-08-04 12:40 +0200
    Re: HOW's lost @ $ € Polyna-Maude Racicot-Summerside <debian@polynamaude.com> - 2021-08-04 12:50 +0200
      Re: HOW's lost @ $ € Polyna-Maude Racicot-Summerside <debian@polynamaude.com> - 2021-08-04 12:50 +0200
      Manners and useful subject [was Re: HOW's lost @ $ €] Polyna-Maude Racicot-Summerside <debian@polynamaude.com> - 2021-08-04 13:00 +0200
        Re: Manners and useful subject [was Re: HOW's lost @ $   €] rhkramer@gmail.com - 2021-08-04 14:40 +0200
          Re: Manners and useful subject [was Re: HOW's lost @ $ €] <tomas@tuxteam.de> - 2021-08-04 15:20 +0200
            Re: Manners and useful subject [was Re: HOW's lost @ $ €] Polyna-Maude Racicot-Summerside <debian@polynamaude.com> - 2021-08-04 18:50 +0200
              Re: Manners and useful subject [was Re: HOW's lost @ $ €] <tomas@tuxteam.de> - 2021-08-04 19:20 +0200
                Re: Manners and useful subject [was Re: HOW's lost @ $ €] Polyna-Maude Racicot-Summerside <debian@polynamaude.com> - 2021-08-04 20:10 +0200
                  Re: Manners and useful subject [was Re: HOW's lost @ $ €] Brian <ad44@cityscape.co.uk> - 2021-08-04 20:50 +0200
                  Re: Manners and useful subject [was Re: HOW's lost @ $ €] tomas@tuxteam.de - 2021-08-04 20:50 +0200
                    Re: Manners and useful subject ellanios82 <ellanios82@gmail.com> - 2021-08-04 21:10 +0200
                    Re: Manners and useful subject [was Re: HOW's lost @ $ €] Brian <ad44@cityscape.co.uk> - 2021-08-04 21:20 +0200
                      Re: Manners and useful subject [was Re: HOW's lost @ $ €] Greg Wooledge <greg@wooledge.org> - 2021-08-04 21:40 +0200
                        Re: Manners and useful subject [was Re: HOW's lost @ $ €] Polyna-Maude Racicot-Summerside <debian@polynamaude.com> - 2021-08-05 03:20 +0200
                      Re: Manners and useful subject [was Re: HOW's lost @ $ €] Polyna-Maude Racicot-Summerside <debian@polynamaude.com> - 2021-08-05 03:30 +0200
                        Re: Manners and useful subject [was Re: HOW's lost @ $ €] <tomas@tuxteam.de> - 2021-08-05 09:30 +0200
                        Re: Manners and useful subject [was Re: HOW's lost @ $ €] Brian <ad44@cityscape.co.uk> - 2021-08-05 20:30 +0200
                Re: Manners and useful subject [was Re: HOW's lost @ $ €] Brian <ad44@cityscape.co.uk> - 2021-08-04 20:30 +0200
        Re: Manners and useful subject [was Re: HOW's lost @ $ €] David Wright <deblis@lionunicorn.co.uk> - 2021-08-04 18:00 +0200
          Re: Manners and useful subject [was Re: HOW's lost @ $ €] Polyna-Maude Racicot-Summerside <debian@polynamaude.com> - 2021-08-04 18:40 +0200
            Re: Manners and useful subject [was Re: HOW's lost @ $ €] Greg Wooledge <greg@wooledge.org> - 2021-08-04 19:40 +0200
              Re: Manners and useful subject [was Re: HOW's lost @ $ €] Polyna-Maude Racicot-Summerside <debian@polynamaude.com> - 2021-08-04 20:00 +0200
              Re: Manners and useful subject [was Re: @ $ EUR] Dan Ritter <dsr@randomstring.org> - 2021-08-04 20:30 +0200
                Re: Manners and useful subject [was Re: @ $ EUR] Polyna-Maude Racicot-Summerside <debian@polynamaude.com> - 2021-08-04 20:40 +0200
              Re: Manners and useful subject [was Re: @ $ EUR] "Thomas Schmitt" <scdbackup@gmx.net> - 2021-08-04 20:30 +0200
              Re: Manners and useful subject [was Re: HOW's lost @ $ €] David Wright <deblis@lionunicorn.co.uk> - 2021-08-04 22:00 +0200
            Re: Manners and useful subject [was Re: HOW's lost @ $ €] David Wright <deblis@lionunicorn.co.uk> - 2021-08-04 21:40 +0200
    Re: HOW's lost @ $ EUR "Thomas Schmitt" <scdbackup@gmx.net> - 2021-08-04 13:10 +0200
    Re: HOW's lost @ $ € Keith Bainbridge <ke1thrboz@gmx.com> - 2021-08-04 15:10 +0200

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#238125 — HOW's lost @ $ €

FromGunnar Gervin <dofeelok@gmail.com>
Date2021-08-04 12:40 +0200
SubjectHOW's lost @ $ €
Message-ID<CImtz-4Yr-5@gated-at.bofh.it>

[Multipart message — attachments visible in raw view] — view raw

Hi again, all.
I decided to reinstall, to get back
Xfce, Synaptic, @ $ € , and clean away the mess I probably made with a
rogue command as root.
Seems to me this old Mac can't boot from usb, only cd or dvd.
The commands to burn iso to usb, are they usable for dvd, too?
2 other questions:
1. It was optional to set "for slow memory" as an extra service during
installation. What is that?
2. Why does graphics use some of the memory?
BR,
Gunnar

In 2023 we'll be free

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#238126

FromPolyna-Maude Racicot-Summerside <debian@polynamaude.com>
Date2021-08-04 12:50 +0200
Message-ID<CImDf-52d-3@gated-at.bofh.it>
In reply to#238125

[Multipart message — attachments visible in raw view] — view raw

Hi,

On 2021-08-04 6:35 a.m., Gunnar Gervin wrote:

You seem (again) to have a problem writing useful title for your messages.

> Hi again, all.
> I decided to reinstall, to get back
> Xfce, Synaptic, @ $ € , and clean away the mess I probably made with a
> rogue command as root.
> Seems to me this old Mac can't boot from usb, only cd or dvd.
What command do you use ?
Mostly the answer would be NO
To burn cd there's many options, some are command line (text mode) and
other GUI.

search on packages.debian.org to find which software is available.

> The commands to burn iso to usb, are they usable for dvd, too?
> 2 other questions:
> 1. It was optional to set "for slow memory" as an extra service during
> installation. What is that?
> 2. Why does graphics use some of the memory?
Why does graphis use some memory ?
Is this serious ?
Because graphics need to be stored somewhere and they don't fit in the
cookie jar. It take more space to store a picture (or graphic) than a
text string saying "How to do this".
> BR,
> Gunnar
> 
> In 2023 we'll be free

-- 
Polyna-Maude R.-Summerside
-Be smart, Be wise, Support opensource development

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#238127

FromPolyna-Maude Racicot-Summerside <debian@polynamaude.com>
Date2021-08-04 12:50 +0200
Message-ID<CImDg-52d-7@gated-at.bofh.it>
In reply to#238126

[Multipart message — attachments visible in raw view] — view raw

Hi,

On 2021-08-04 6:43 a.m., Polyna-Maude Racicot-Summerside wrote:
> Hi,
> 
> On 2021-08-04 6:35 a.m., Gunnar Gervin wrote:
> 
> You seem (again) to have a problem writing useful title for your messages.
> 
Gunnar wrote a message saying "HOW", great we all know what he's asking
for before even reading his message.
Great, I know if I could help him before trying to understand what he wrote.

Don't you think there's a use for subject line ?

When someone write to you, how do you know what they want ? Mostly the
subject line. Same goes on here.

Seems like some basic stuff don't quite get it.

I don't know how old you are and what's your experience of life but the
problem seems to be much more profound than one related to the use of
Debian or Linux, or even computer at all.
>> Hi again, all.
>> I decided to reinstall, to get back
>> Xfce, Synaptic, @ $ € , and clean away the mess I probably made with a
>> rogue command as root.
>> Seems to me this old Mac can't boot from usb, only cd or dvd.
> What command do you use ?
> Mostly the answer would be NO
> To burn cd there's many options, some are command line (text mode) and
> other GUI.
> 
> search on packages.debian.org to find which software is available.
> 
>> The commands to burn iso to usb, are they usable for dvd, too?
>> 2 other questions:
>> 1. It was optional to set "for slow memory" as an extra service during
>> installation. What is that?
>> 2. Why does graphics use some of the memory?
> Why does graphis use some memory ?
> Is this serious ?
> Because graphics need to be stored somewhere and they don't fit in the
> cookie jar. It take more space to store a picture (or graphic) than a
> text string saying "How to do this".
>> BR,
>> Gunnar
>>
>> In 2023 we'll be free
> 

-- 
Polyna-Maude R.-Summerside
-Be smart, Be wise, Support opensource development

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#238129 — Manners and useful subject [was Re: HOW's lost @ $ €]

FromPolyna-Maude Racicot-Summerside <debian@polynamaude.com>
Date2021-08-04 13:00 +0200
SubjectManners and useful subject [was Re: HOW's lost @ $ €]
Message-ID<CImMW-55T-3@gated-at.bofh.it>
In reply to#238126

[Multipart message — attachments visible in raw view] — view raw

Hi,

On 2021-08-04 6:49 a.m., Gunnar Gervin wrote:
> Thx
Thanks, nothing prohibit you from writing complete words.

If you want really to get help maybe read and answer questions people
ask you ? And not only ask others, because it's starting to be politely
useless here.
> 
> On Wed, 4 Aug 2021, 13:43 Polyna-Maude Racicot-Summerside,
> <debian@polynamaude.com <mailto:debian@polynamaude.com>> wrote:
> y cd or dvd.
>     What command do you use ?
>     Mostly the answer would be NO
*still waiting for answer*
>     To burn cd there's many options, some are command line (text mode) and
>     other GUI.
> 
>     -- 
>     Polyna-Maude R.-Summerside
>     -Be smart, Be wise, Support opensource development
> 

-- 
Polyna-Maude R.-Summerside
-Be smart, Be wise, Support opensource development

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#238131 — Re: Manners and useful subject [was Re: HOW's lost @ $ €]

Fromrhkramer@gmail.com
Date2021-08-04 14:40 +0200
SubjectRe: Manners and useful subject [was Re: HOW's lost @ $ €]
Message-ID<CIolI-692-3@gated-at.bofh.it>
In reply to#238129
Intentioinally top posting: This whole exchange, in various threads, seems to 
be bordering on the toxic and I'd like to see it improved somehow.

Suggestions?

On Wednesday, August 04, 2021 06:55:02 AM Polyna-Maude Racicot-Summerside 
wrote:
> On 2021-08-04 6:49 a.m., Gunnar Gervin wrote:
> > Thx
> 
> Thanks, nothing prohibit you from writing complete words.

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#238135 — Re: Manners and useful subject [was Re: HOW's lost @ $ €]

From<tomas@tuxteam.de>
Date2021-08-04 15:20 +0200
SubjectRe: Manners and useful subject [was Re: HOW's lost @ $ €]
Message-ID<CIoYr-6CA-7@gated-at.bofh.it>
In reply to#238131

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On Wed, Aug 04, 2021 at 08:35:46AM -0400, rhkramer@gmail.com wrote:
> Intentioinally top posting: This whole exchange, in various threads, seems to 
> be bordering on the toxic and I'd like to see it improved somehow.

Thanks. Helping someone to improve isn't a justification to jump all
over him/her, and I, too, have the impression that this line was being
crossed. Including the insinuation of malice on the OP's part.

> Suggestions?

I propose everyone takes a step back and thinks :-)

Cheers
 - t

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#238142 — Re: Manners and useful subject [was Re: HOW's lost @ $ €]

FromPolyna-Maude Racicot-Summerside <debian@polynamaude.com>
Date2021-08-04 18:50 +0200
SubjectRe: Manners and useful subject [was Re: HOW's lost @ $ €]
Message-ID<CIsfE-5p-1@gated-at.bofh.it>
In reply to#238135

[Multipart message — attachments visible in raw view] — view raw

Hi,

On 2021-08-04 9:12 a.m., tomas@tuxteam.de wrote:
> On Wed, Aug 04, 2021 at 08:35:46AM -0400, rhkramer@gmail.com wrote:
>> Intentioinally top posting: This whole exchange, in various threads, seems to 
>> be bordering on the toxic and I'd like to see it improved somehow.
> 
> Thanks. Helping someone to improve isn't a justification to jump all
> over him/her, and I, too, have the impression that this line was being
> crossed. Including the insinuation of malice on the OP's part.
> 
I don't know where you saw insinuation of malice.
Could it be possible that someone is just acting in good faith and
unknowingly causing his own fail by not expressing in a way he can be
understood ? I'm pretty sure this is yes.

Is it possible someone is missing some understanding on what to expect
and how to optimize the possibility of being helped ? Again I'm pretty sure.

How is it possible to learn if no one tells you and people just ignore.

Sorry, but it wouldn't be better to just ignore this guy and let people
answer him once, get tired after some exchange of mail and just let go.

Everything I said was mostly supported by many other user.
Including the explanation regarding "top posting" which didn't seem to
have been understood more than for answering two or three message afterward.

>> Suggestions?
> 
> I propose everyone takes a step back and thinks :-)
> 

Can I ask, have you tried to answer one of his questions and helping out
? Or is it only that you are bothered because of the noise this create
on the mailing list...

Ignoring people without telling them why we don't want to get into the
drama of helping out is not a sensible way of acting.
> Cheers
>  - t
> 

-- 
Polyna-Maude R.-Summerside
-Be smart, Be wise, Support opensource development

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#238143 — Re: Manners and useful subject [was Re: HOW's lost @ $ €]

From<tomas@tuxteam.de>
Date2021-08-04 19:20 +0200
SubjectRe: Manners and useful subject [was Re: HOW's lost @ $ €]
Message-ID<CIsIF-vg-3@gated-at.bofh.it>
In reply to#238142

[Multipart message — attachments visible in raw view] — view raw

On Wed, Aug 04, 2021 at 12:42:28PM -0400, Polyna-Maude Racicot-Summerside wrote:
> Hi,

> I don't know where you saw insinuation of malice.

for example:

  https://lists.debian.org/debian-user/2021/08/msg00167.html

but I do dislike the general tone. It is obvious that the OP is
having a hard time to express him/herself understandably, but
(s)he has made attempts at fixing that. Talk like "bad manners",
as other posters here have resorted to is downright hostile
in that context.

Cheers
 - t

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#238147 — Re: Manners and useful subject [was Re: HOW's lost @ $ €]

FromPolyna-Maude Racicot-Summerside <debian@polynamaude.com>
Date2021-08-04 20:10 +0200
SubjectRe: Manners and useful subject [was Re: HOW's lost @ $ €]
Message-ID<CItv3-11Q-3@gated-at.bofh.it>
In reply to#238143

[Multipart message — attachments visible in raw view] — view raw

Hi,

On 2021-08-04 1:18 p.m., tomas@tuxteam.de wrote:
> On Wed, Aug 04, 2021 at 12:42:28PM -0400, Polyna-Maude Racicot-Summerside wrote:
>> Hi,
> 
>> I don't know where you saw insinuation of malice.
> 
> for example:
> 
>   https://lists.debian.org/debian-user/2021/08/msg00167.html
> 
> but I do dislike the general tone. It is obvious that the OP is
> having a hard time to express him/herself understandably, but
> (s)he has made attempts at fixing that. Talk like "bad manners",
> as other posters here have resorted to is downright hostile
> in that context.
> 
Sorry, but it's more than a problem with expressing in English.
Maybe you haven't followed all the different messages from all the user
who answered him, tried giving him hint and more.

As I tried too, whatever language you use, we all know that structuring
a message is important, answering when someone say "Hey there's info
missing", etc... This is not only something related to "I don't speak
English fluently"

For my part, a personal crisis refer to someone who "In expectation to
get answer" will write the same question over again.

Regarding the "sophisticated trolling", let me express doubt about the
feeling of hostility you may see there. I think you should review the
level at which your trigger is raised, maybe some adjustment are needed.
> Cheers
>  - t
> 

-- 
Polyna-Maude R.-Summerside
-Be smart, Be wise, Support opensource development

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#238152 — Re: Manners and useful subject [was Re: HOW's lost @ $ €]

FromBrian <ad44@cityscape.co.uk>
Date2021-08-04 20:50 +0200
SubjectRe: Manners and useful subject [was Re: HOW's lost @ $ €]
Message-ID<CIu7L-1fD-1@gated-at.bofh.it>
In reply to#238147
On Wed 04 Aug 2021 at 14:00:25 -0400, Polyna-Maude Racicot-Summerside wrote:

> Hi,
> 
> On 2021-08-04 1:18 p.m., tomas@tuxteam.de wrote:
> > On Wed, Aug 04, 2021 at 12:42:28PM -0400, Polyna-Maude Racicot-Summerside wrote:
> >> Hi,
> > 
> >> I don't know where you saw insinuation of malice.
> > 
> > for example:
> > 
> >   https://lists.debian.org/debian-user/2021/08/msg00167.html
> > 
> > but I do dislike the general tone. It is obvious that the OP is
> > having a hard time to express him/herself understandably, but
> > (s)he has made attempts at fixing that. Talk like "bad manners",
> > as other posters here have resorted to is downright hostile
> > in that context.
> > 
> Sorry, but it's more than a problem with expressing in English.
> Maybe you haven't followed all the different messages from all the user
> who answered him, tried giving him hint and more.
> 
> As I tried too, whatever language you use, we all know that structuring
> a message is important, answering when someone say "Hey there's info
> missing", etc... This is not only something related to "I don't speak
> English fluently"
> 
> For my part, a personal crisis refer to someone who "In expectation to
> get answer" will write the same question over again.
> 
> Regarding the "sophisticated trolling", let me express doubt about the
> feeling of hostility you may see there. I think you should review the
> level at which your trigger is raised, maybe some adjustment are needed.

I would suggest you stick to techniqual advice and ignore trying to
educate the user. It makes for shorter threads and less friction.

-- 
Brian.

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#238153 — Re: Manners and useful subject [was Re: HOW's lost @ $ €]

Fromtomas@tuxteam.de
Date2021-08-04 20:50 +0200
SubjectRe: Manners and useful subject [was Re: HOW's lost @ $ €]
Message-ID<CIu7M-1fD-3@gated-at.bofh.it>
In reply to#238147

[Multipart message — attachments visible in raw view] — view raw

On Wed, Aug 04, 2021 at 02:00:25PM -0400, Polyna-Maude Racicot-Summerside wrote:
> Hi,
> 
> On 2021-08-04 1:18 p.m., tomas@tuxteam.de wrote:

[...]

> > but I do dislike the general tone. It is obvious that the OP is
> > having a hard time to express him/herself understandably [...]

> Sorry, but it's more than a problem with expressing in English.

I wasn't actually about specific language problems. Actually I
think the problems stem from other sources. Culture, perhaps.
Perhaps lack of practice expressing questions and providing
the necessary context. Whatever.

> Maybe you haven't followed all the different messages from all the user
> who answered him, tried giving him hint and more.

I have. Still I feel the sometimes condescending, sometimes
downright hostile tone was unwarranted towards someone who
actually is trying.

> Regarding the "sophisticated trolling", let me express doubt about the
> feeling of hostility you may see there. I think you should review the
> level at which your trigger is raised, maybe some adjustment are needed.

My trigger is my business, your trigger, yours :)

Cheers
 - t

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#238154 — Re: Manners and useful subject

Fromellanios82 <ellanios82@gmail.com>
Date2021-08-04 21:10 +0200
SubjectRe: Manners and useful subject
Message-ID<CIur7-1BX-1@gated-at.bofh.it>
In reply to#238153
On 8/4/21 9:48 PM, tomas@tuxteam.de wrote:
> My trigger is my business, your trigger, yours :)


  - some folks seem to have 'Zeppelin-size' self-importance.

.....

  wiki :

"A Zeppelin is a type of rigid airship named after the German inventor 
Count Ferdinand von Zeppelin  who pioneered rigid airship development at 
the beginning of the 20th century. Zeppelin's notions were first 
formulated in 1874 and developed in detail in 1893. They were patented 
in Germany in 1895 and in the United States in 1899. After the 
outstanding success of the Zeppelin design, the word zeppelin came to be 
commonly used to refer to all rigid airships. Zeppelins were first flown 
commercially in 1910 by Deutsche Luftschiffahrts-AG (DELAG), the world's 
first airline in revenue service. By mid-1914, DELAG had carried over 
10,000 fare-paying passengers on over 1,500 flights. During World War I, 
the German military made extensive use of Zeppelins as bombers and as 
scouts, killing over 500 people in bombing raids in Britain.

The defeat of Germany in 1918 temporarily slowed the airship business. 
Although DELAG established a scheduled daily service between Berlin, 
Munich, and Friedrichshafen in 1919, the airships built for this service 
eventually had to be surrendered under the terms of the Treaty of 
Versailles, which also prohibited Germany from building large airships. 
An exception was made allowing the construction of one airship for the 
United States Navy, which saved the company from extinction. In 1926, 
the restrictions on airship construction were lifted, and with the aid 
of donations from the public, work began on the construction of LZ 127 
Graf Zeppelin. This revived the company's fortunes, and during the 
1930s, the airships Graf Zeppelin, and the larger LZ 129 Hindenburg 
operated regular transatlantic flights from Germany to North America and 
Brazil. The Art Deco spire of the Empire State Building was originally 
designed to serve as a mooring mast for Zeppelins and other airships, 
although it was found that high winds made this impossible and the plan 
was abandoned. The Hindenburg disaster in 1937, along with political and 
economic issues, hastened the demise of Zeppelins"

.....

  regards

.

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#238155 — Re: Manners and useful subject [was Re: HOW's lost @ $ €]

FromBrian <ad44@cityscape.co.uk>
Date2021-08-04 21:20 +0200
SubjectRe: Manners and useful subject [was Re: HOW's lost @ $ €]
Message-ID<CIuAN-1Fh-1@gated-at.bofh.it>
In reply to#238153
On Wed 04 Aug 2021 at 20:48:50 +0200, tomas@tuxteam.de wrote:

> On Wed, Aug 04, 2021 at 02:00:25PM -0400, Polyna-Maude Racicot-Summerside wrote:
> > Hi,
> > 
> > On 2021-08-04 1:18 p.m., tomas@tuxteam.de wrote:
> 
> [...]
> 
> > > but I do dislike the general tone. It is obvious that the OP is
> > > having a hard time to express him/herself understandably [...]
> 
> > Sorry, but it's more than a problem with expressing in English.
> 
> I wasn't actually about specific language problems. Actually I
> think the problems stem from other sources. Culture, perhaps.
> Perhaps lack of practice expressing questions and providing
> the necessary context. Whatever.

The problem has now become the user? Who may be ignored, of course?
 
> > Maybe you haven't followed all the different messages from all the user
> > who answered him, tried giving him hint and more.
> 
> I have. Still I feel the sometimes condescending, sometimes
> downright hostile tone was unwarranted towards someone who
> actually is trying.

The previous remark about following all the different messages from
-user is insulting, nevermind condescending.

The objective of Polyna-Maude Racicot-Summerside appears to be to put
the user in his place.

-- 
Brian.

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#238160 — Re: Manners and useful subject [was Re: HOW's lost @ $ €]

FromGreg Wooledge <greg@wooledge.org>
Date2021-08-04 21:40 +0200
SubjectRe: Manners and useful subject [was Re: HOW's lost @ $ €]
Message-ID<CIuUa-1Mc-13@gated-at.bofh.it>
In reply to#238155
On Wed, Aug 04, 2021 at 08:19:25PM +0100, Brian wrote:
> The problem has now become the user? Who may be ignored, of course?

The question, I think, is whether this *particular* user has crossed
the line from "well-meaning but failing" to malicious.

I think they're still on the well-meaning side, and may benefit from
style suggestions.  But I can see how other people might think they're
on the other side of the line, and need a stern warning.

In either case, the approach they've been using so far is not getting
them the help that they ostensibly want.  They *need* to change their
behavior if they actually want help.

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#238171 — Re: Manners and useful subject [was Re: HOW's lost @ $ €]

FromPolyna-Maude Racicot-Summerside <debian@polynamaude.com>
Date2021-08-05 03:20 +0200
SubjectRe: Manners and useful subject [was Re: HOW's lost @ $ €]
Message-ID<CIAdb-5eU-1@gated-at.bofh.it>
In reply to#238160

[Multipart message — attachments visible in raw view] — view raw

Hi Greg,

On 2021-08-04 3:30 p.m., Greg Wooledge wrote:
> On Wed, Aug 04, 2021 at 08:19:25PM +0100, Brian wrote:
>> The problem has now become the user? Who may be ignored, of course?
> 
> The question, I think, is whether this *particular* user has crossed
> the line from "well-meaning but failing" to malicious.
> 
> I think they're still on the well-meaning side, and may benefit from
> style suggestions.  But I can see how other people might think they're
> on the other side of the line, and need a stern warning.
> 
> In either case, the approach they've been using so far is not getting
> them the help that they ostensibly want.  They *need* to change their
> behavior if they actually want help.
> 

I can only agree with you here.

-- 
Polyna-Maude R.-Summerside
-Be smart, Be wise, Support opensource development

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#238173 — Re: Manners and useful subject [was Re: HOW's lost @ $ €]

FromPolyna-Maude Racicot-Summerside <debian@polynamaude.com>
Date2021-08-05 03:30 +0200
SubjectRe: Manners and useful subject [was Re: HOW's lost @ $ €]
Message-ID<CIAmR-5i1-1@gated-at.bofh.it>
In reply to#238155

[Multipart message — attachments visible in raw view] — view raw

Hi,

On 2021-08-04 3:19 p.m., Brian wrote:
> On Wed 04 Aug 2021 at 20:48:50 +0200, tomas@tuxteam.de wrote:
> 
> The previous remark about following all the different messages from
> -user is insulting, nevermind condescending.
> 
It is of basic logic to see something as a whole before expressing on to
the subject or at least, get a general idea of it.

Cherrypicking messages and making opinion over this ain't going to help
get a objective opinion.

> The objective of Polyna-Maude Racicot-Summerside appears to be to put
> the user in his place.
> 
Strangely, I got many thanks from this user, when I explained to him
about the fact that "top posting" doesn't make a easy to understand thread.

And same came along when I explained to him that he could benefit from
having clearer subject.

Even if the result seem to need some improvement.

I don't feel much justification and suggestion for improvement in the
messages you write, other than trying to say that I "put him in his place".

May I ask if you even took 5 minutes of your time to give this user some
answer to his many questions ?

-- 
Polyna-Maude R.-Summerside
-Be smart, Be wise, Support opensource development

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#238178 — Re: Manners and useful subject [was Re: HOW's lost @ $ €]

From<tomas@tuxteam.de>
Date2021-08-05 09:30 +0200
SubjectRe: Manners and useful subject [was Re: HOW's lost @ $ €]
Message-ID<CIFZg-j2-3@gated-at.bofh.it>
In reply to#238173

[Multipart message — attachments visible in raw view] — view raw

On Wed, Aug 04, 2021 at 09:21:33PM -0400, Polyna-Maude Racicot-Summerside wrote:
> Hi,
> 
> On 2021-08-04 3:19 p.m., Brian wrote:
> > On Wed 04 Aug 2021 at 20:48:50 +0200, tomas@tuxteam.de wrote:
> > 
> > The previous remark about following all the different messages from
> > -user is insulting, nevermind condescending.

I think you're mis-quoting me here.

Cheers
 - t

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#238219 — Re: Manners and useful subject [was Re: HOW's lost @ $ €]

FromBrian <ad44@cityscape.co.uk>
Date2021-08-05 20:30 +0200
SubjectRe: Manners and useful subject [was Re: HOW's lost @ $ €]
Message-ID<CIQhX-6w6-3@gated-at.bofh.it>
In reply to#238173
On Wed 04 Aug 2021 at 21:21:33 -0400, Polyna-Maude Racicot-Summerside wrote:

[...]

> > The objective of Polyna-Maude Racicot-Summerside appears to be to put
> > the user in his place.
> > 
> Strangely, I got many thanks from this user, when I explained to him
> about the fact that "top posting" doesn't make a easy to understand thread.
> 
> And same came along when I explained to him that he could benefit from
> having clearer subject.

That's between you and the OP. I respond to what is on the list.

> Even if the result seem to need some improvement.

Keep working on it. Perfection takes some time.

> I don't feel much justification and suggestion for improvement in the
> messages you write, other than trying to say that I "put him in his place".
> 
> May I ask if you even took 5 minutes of your time to give this user some
> answer to his many questions ?

Of course you may ask. You would have observed such an interaction.

-- 
Brian.

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#238148 — Re: Manners and useful subject [was Re: HOW's lost @ $ €]

FromBrian <ad44@cityscape.co.uk>
Date2021-08-04 20:30 +0200
SubjectRe: Manners and useful subject [was Re: HOW's lost @ $ €]
Message-ID<CItOq-18x-1@gated-at.bofh.it>
In reply to#238143
On Wed 04 Aug 2021 at 19:18:38 +0200, tomas@tuxteam.de wrote:

> On Wed, Aug 04, 2021 at 12:42:28PM -0400, Polyna-Maude Racicot-Summerside wrote:
> > Hi,
> 
> > I don't know where you saw insinuation of malice.
> 
> for example:
> 
>   https://lists.debian.org/debian-user/2021/08/msg00167.html

Indeed. Insinuation-based.

> but I do dislike the general tone. It is obvious that the OP is
> having a hard time to express him/herself understandably, but
> (s)he has made attempts at fixing that. Talk like "bad manners",
> as other posters here have resorted to is downright hostile
> in that context.

Agreed. Putting the boot in is a well-known -user technique.

-- 
Brian.

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#238138 — Re: Manners and useful subject [was Re: HOW's lost @ $ €]

FromDavid Wright <deblis@lionunicorn.co.uk>
Date2021-08-04 18:00 +0200
SubjectRe: Manners and useful subject [was Re: HOW's lost @ $ €]
Message-ID<CIrtg-80i-7@gated-at.bofh.it>
In reply to#238129
On Wed 04 Aug 2021 at 06:55:02 (-0400), Polyna-Maude Racicot-Summerside wrote:
> Hi,
> 
> On 2021-08-04 6:49 a.m., Gunnar Gervin wrote:
> > Thx
> Thanks, nothing prohibit you from writing complete words.
> 
> If you want really to get help maybe read and answer questions people
> ask you ? And not only ask others, because it's starting to be politely
> useless here.
> > 
> > On Wed, 4 Aug 2021, 13:43 Polyna-Maude Racicot-Summerside,
> > <debian@polynamaude.com <mailto:debian@polynamaude.com>> wrote:
> > y cd or dvd.
> >     What command do you use ?
> >     Mostly the answer would be NO
> *still waiting for answer*

Seriously? You /wait/ for answers here?
(Dare I say it), you /want/ another post from the OP?

I think the idea with mailing lists is that you compose and post
replies in your own time, and that conversations are open to
interjections from all. I was under the impression that something
called IRC was available for realtime chatting (though I've never tried it).

> >     To burn cd there's many options, some are command line (text mode) and
> >     other GUI.
> > 
> >     -- 
> >     Polyna-Maude R.-Summerside
> >     -Be smart, Be wise, Support opensource development
> > 
> 
> -- 
> Polyna-Maude R.-Summerside
> -Be smart, Be wise, Support opensource development
> 

Cheers,
David.

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