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Phone

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  Phone Gunnar Gervin <dofeelok@gmail.com> - 2021-07-25 16:00 +0200
    Re: Phone Joe <joe@jretrading.com> - 2021-07-25 20:50 +0200
      Re: Phone Charlie <taoquester@gmail.com> - 2021-07-26 05:30 +0200
        Re: Phone Curt <curty@free.fr> - 2021-07-27 16:10 +0200
          Re: Phone Polyna-Maude Racicot-Summerside <debian@polynamaude.com> - 2021-07-28 08:40 +0200
      Re: Phone Dan Ritter <dsr@randomstring.org> - 2021-07-26 13:40 +0200
        Re: Phone Joe <joe@jretrading.com> - 2021-07-26 15:30 +0200
          Re: Phone Dan Ritter <dsr@randomstring.org> - 2021-07-26 16:30 +0200
          Re: Phone deloptes <emanoil.kotsev@deloptes.org> - 2021-07-26 21:20 +0200

#237712 — Phone

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Will buy phone zoon, then play with this android for fun & learn.

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#237724

On Sun, 25 Jul 2021 16:57:04 +0300
Gunnar Gervin <dofeelok@gmail.com> wrote:

> Will buy phone zoon, then play with this android for fun & learn.

Please comment here on your findings. Perhaps it is just me who thinks
they are toys.

-- 
Joe

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#237755

	On Sun, 25 Jul 2021 19:49:37 +0100 Joe Informed me about Re:
	Phone

> On Sun, 25 Jul 2021 16:57:04 +0300
> Gunnar Gervin <dofeelok@gmail.com> wrote:
> 
> > Will buy phone zoon, then play with this android for fun & learn.  
> 
> Please comment here on your findings. Perhaps it is just me who thinks
> they are toys.
> 
> -- 
> Joe
> 
+1

-- 
	Registered Linux User:- 329524

	***********************************************

	Nothing puzzles me more than time and space; yet nothing
	troubles me less. ...Charles Lamb

	***********************************************
	Debian GNU/Linux - Magic indeed.

	-----------------------------------------------------

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#237802

On 2021-07-26, Charlie <taoquester@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> 	On Sun, 25 Jul 2021 19:49:37 +0100 Joe Informed me about Re:
> 	Phone
>
>> On Sun, 25 Jul 2021 16:57:04 +0300
>> Gunnar Gervin <dofeelok@gmail.com> wrote:
>> 
>> > Will buy phone zoon, then play with this android for fun & learn.  
>> 
>> Please comment here on your findings. Perhaps it is just me who thinks
>> they are toys.
>> 
>> -- 
>> Joe
>> 
> +1
>

The fundamental irony here is that you people are such elitist snobs.

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#237831

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Hi,

On 2021-07-27 10:01 a.m., Curt wrote:
> On 2021-07-26, Charlie <taoquester@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> 	On Sun, 25 Jul 2021 19:49:37 +0100 Joe Informed me about Re:
>> 	Phone
>>
>>> On Sun, 25 Jul 2021 16:57:04 +0300
>>> Gunnar Gervin <dofeelok@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Will buy phone zoon, then play with this android for fun & learn.  
>>>
>>> Please comment here on your findings. Perhaps it is just me who thinks
>>> they are toys.
>>>
>>> -- 
>>> Joe
>>>
>> +1
>>
> 
> The fundamental irony here is that you people are such elitist snobs.
> 
I can only support what you said here.
I think next step will be to build a Leica type computer... Oh yes, it's
called Apple... But no it's not because Leica work great...
> 
> 

-- 
Polyna-Maude R.-Summerside
-Be smart, Be wise, Support opensource development

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#237760

Joe wrote: 
> On Sun, 25 Jul 2021 16:57:04 +0300
> Gunnar Gervin <dofeelok@gmail.com> wrote:
> 
> > Will buy phone zoon, then play with this android for fun & learn.
> 
> Please comment here on your findings. Perhaps it is just me who thinks
> they are toys.

Of course smartphones are toys.

They are also reasonably powerful general purpose computers that
fit into a pocket.

Hence "I have the Internet in my pants."

Phones are books. They play music and TV shows and movies, and
of course, games.

They are maps that know where you are, can be told where you are
going, and can tell you turn-by-turn instructions on getting
there. They can track your movements and learn your face well
enough to distinguish it from a photograph of your face --
sometimes. They are the majority of photography and video
cameras on the planet.

Because phones are valid terminals for the Internet as a whole,
they are reference libraries and documentation and how-to
videos.

Also, you can use them to communicate,  and even call for help.

All of them, to a first approximation, run some kind of UNIX.
Most of them run Linux. There's a big complicated ecosystem
called Android on top of that, but definitely Linux underneath.

The requests over the last few days to install Debian on phones
are entirely blocked by practical issues, not philosophical --
it is perfectly reasonable to want control and thus privacy and 
security on such a powerful instrument. 

-dsr- 

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#237762

On Mon, 26 Jul 2021 07:39:01 -0400
Dan Ritter <dsr@randomstring.org> wrote:

> Joe wrote: 
> > On Sun, 25 Jul 2021 16:57:04 +0300
> > Gunnar Gervin <dofeelok@gmail.com> wrote:
> >   
> > > Will buy phone zoon, then play with this android for fun & learn.
> > >  
> > 
> > Please comment here on your findings. Perhaps it is just me who
> > thinks they are toys.  
> 
> Of course smartphones are toys.
> 
> They are also reasonably powerful general purpose computers that
> fit into a pocket.
> 
> Hence "I have the Internet in my pants."
> 
> Phones are books. They play music and TV shows and movies, and
> of course, games.
> 
> They are maps that know where you are, can be told where you are
> going, and can tell you turn-by-turn instructions on getting
> there. They can track your movements and learn your face well
> enough to distinguish it from a photograph of your face --
> sometimes. They are the majority of photography and video
> cameras on the planet.
> 
> Because phones are valid terminals for the Internet as a whole,
> they are reference libraries and documentation and how-to
> videos.
> 
> Also, you can use them to communicate,  and even call for help.
> 
> All of them, to a first approximation, run some kind of UNIX.
> Most of them run Linux. There's a big complicated ecosystem
> called Android on top of that, but definitely Linux underneath.
> 
> The requests over the last few days to install Debian on phones
> are entirely blocked by practical issues, not philosophical --
> it is perfectly reasonable to want control and thus privacy and 
> security on such a powerful instrument. 
> 

It is the philosophical which makes the practical so very difficult,
and it is the philosophy behind the mobile devices which makes them
toys.

I've recently installed OpenVPN on two Android phones and an iPad.
Installing it (OpenVPN Connect, the 'official' client) was trivial.
Configuring it has proven impossibly difficult with one phone and the
iPad. The iPad does not have the concept of file storage: a matter of
philosophy. This means that the only two methods of getting a file into
it are using Apple's cloud or using email. The file must be directly
useable from these media as there is no provision for the user to store
files on the iPad. At least this isn't a problem with Android.

The version of OpenVPN on my phone must be older than the recent
installations on the iPad and on my wife's phone, because it allows the
use of separate certificate/ca files and also manual configuration of
the profile. This is obviously a no-no now, enforced by the OS
manufacturers, when the only permitted configuration method is to load
an all-in-one OpenVPN profile. So far, I have not been able to generate
any such file that is accepted by either the Android or iPad, and the
error messages produced are not in the least helpful, nor are the
'examples' on the Net. 

OK, spending another couple of days making near-random changes will
probably solve this, but my point is that I did the job on a buster
netbook in five minutes, on my Android phone in about ten, and the
reason it is taking hours on the other mobile devices is one of
philosophy, which translates into (lack of) practicality.

-- 
Joe

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#237766

Joe wrote: 
> On Mon, 26 Jul 2021 07:39:01 -0400
> Dan Ritter <dsr@randomstring.org> wrote:
> 
> > The requests over the last few days to install Debian on phones
> > are entirely blocked by practical issues, not philosophical --
> > it is perfectly reasonable to want control and thus privacy and 
> > security on such a powerful instrument. 

> OK, spending another couple of days making near-random changes will
> probably solve this, but my point is that I did the job on a buster
> netbook in five minutes, on my Android phone in about ten, and the
> reason it is taking hours on the other mobile devices is one of
> philosophy, which translates into (lack of) practicality.

Clearly I did not make myself understandable, or else you would
not have this confusion.

You have a problem with making a phone do what you want, because
of the philosophy of the manufacturer, who also writes the OS.

If the OS were replaced with Debian, you would not have this problem.

The difficulty with installing Debian on your Apple device is not a
philosophical difficulty. It is a practical one. If/when it is solved,
you will not have this class of problem.


-dsr-

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#237777

Joe wrote:

> OK, spending another couple of days making near-random changes will
> probably solve this, but my point is that I did the job on a buster
> netbook in five minutes, on my Android phone in about ten, and the
> reason it is taking hours on the other mobile devices is one of
> philosophy, which translates into (lack of) practicality.

There are OSes for true believers. I'm using one that is more or less OK. It
is called Sailfish and for 50,- on top you can use Android apps in the
emulator. Unfortunately still not as stable as it's grandmother Harmattan
was.

Unfortunately it is the same situation as with Microsoft 40y ago.

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