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pci 0000:00:01:0: MSI quirk detected; subordinated MSI disabled ...

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  pci 0000:00:01:0: MSI quirk detected; subordinated MSI disabled ... Albretch Mueller <lbrtchx@gmail.com> - 2021-04-14 17:30 +0200
    Re: pci 0000:00:01:0: MSI quirk detected; subordinated MSI disabled  ... David Wright <deblis@lionunicorn.co.uk> - 2021-04-14 18:20 +0200
    Re: pci 0000:00:01:0: MSI quirk detected; subordinated MSI disabled  ... didier gaumet <didier.gaumet@gmail.com> - 2021-04-14 20:30 +0200
      Re: pci 0000:00:01:0: MSI quirk detected; subordinated MSI disabled ... Albretch Mueller <lbrtchx@gmail.com> - 2021-04-15 02:30 +0200
        Re: pci 0000:00:01:0: MSI quirk detected; subordinated MSI disabled  ... didier gaumet <didier.gaumet@gmail.com> - 2021-04-15 10:00 +0200
          Re: pci 0000:00:01:0: MSI quirk detected; subordinated MSI disabled ... Gene Heskett <gheskett@shentel.net> - 2021-04-15 12:40 +0200
            Re: pci 0000:00:01:0: MSI quirk detected; subordinated MSI disabled  ... "Andrew M.A. Cater" <amacater@einval.com> - 2021-04-15 14:40 +0200
            Re: pci 0000:00:01:0: MSI quirk detected; subordinated MSI disabled  ... Dan Ritter <dsr@randomstring.org> - 2021-04-15 15:00 +0200
              Re: pci 0000:00:01:0: MSI quirk detected; subordinated MSI disabled ... Albretch Mueller <lbrtchx@gmail.com> - 2021-04-15 20:20 +0200
                Re: pci 0000:00:01:0: MSI quirk detected; subordinated MSI disabled  ... didier gaumet <didier.gaumet@gmail.com> - 2021-04-15 21:40 +0200
                Re: pci 0000:00:01:0: MSI quirk detected; subordinated MSI disabled  ... "Alexander V. Makartsev" <avbetev@gmail.com> - 2021-04-15 21:40 +0200
                  Re: pci 0000:00:01:0: MSI quirk detected; subordinated MSI disabled ... Albretch Mueller <lbrtchx@gmail.com> - 2021-04-22 22:00 +0200
                    Re: pci 0000:00:01:0: MSI quirk detected; subordinated MSI disabled  ... Dan Ritter <dsr@randomstring.org> - 2021-04-22 23:10 +0200
                    Re: pci 0000:00:01:0: MSI quirk detected; subordinated MSI disabled  ... Dan Ritter <dsr@randomstring.org> - 2021-04-22 23:10 +0200
                    Re: pci 0000:00:01:0: MSI quirk detected; subordinated MSI disabled  ... Darac Marjal <mailinglist@darac.org.uk> - 2021-04-23 14:50 +0200
                      Re: pci 0000:00:01:0: MSI quirk detected; subordinated MSI disabled ... Albretch Mueller <lbrtchx@gmail.com> - 2021-04-23 21:10 +0200
                        Re: pci 0000:00:01:0: MSI quirk detected; subordinated MSI disabled  ... Dan Ritter <dsr@randomstring.org> - 2021-04-23 21:50 +0200
                          Re: pci 0000:00:01:0: MSI quirk detected; subordinated MSI disabled ... Albretch Mueller <lbrtchx@gmail.com> - 2021-04-24 20:50 +0200
                          Re: pci 0000:00:01:0: MSI quirk detected; subordinated MSI disabled  ... Celejar <celejar@gmail.com> - 2021-04-25 04:00 +0200
                            Re: pci 0000:00:01:0: MSI quirk detected; subordinated MSI disabled ... Albretch Mueller <lbrtchx@gmail.com> - 2021-04-27 10:00 +0200
                              Re: pci 0000:00:01:0: MSI quirk detected; subordinated MSI disabled  ... davidson <davidson@freevolt.org> - 2021-04-28 23:10 +0200
                                Re: pci 0000:00:01:0: MSI quirk detected; subordinated MSI disabled ... Albretch Mueller <lbrtchx@gmail.com> - 2021-04-29 15:10 +0200
                                  Re: pci 0000:00:01:0: MSI quirk detected; subordinated MSI disabled  ... Darac Marjal <mailinglist@darac.org.uk> - 2021-04-29 15:20 +0200
                                  Re: pci 0000:00:01:0: MSI quirk detected; subordinated MSI disabled ... rhkramer@gmail.com - 2021-04-29 17:40 +0200
                                    Re: pci 0000:00:01:0: MSI quirk detected; subordinated MSI disabled  ... David Wright <deblis@lionunicorn.co.uk> - 2021-04-29 21:30 +0200
                                  Re: pci 0000:00:01:0: MSI quirk detected; subordinated MSI disabled  ... davidson <davidson@freevolt.org> - 2021-05-01 01:00 +0200
                                    [OFFTOPIC] Re: pci 0000:00:01:0: MSI quirk detected; subordinated MSI disabled ... Stefan Monnier <monnier@iro.umontreal.ca> - 2021-05-01 01:20 +0200
                                      Re: [OFFTOPIC] Re: pci 0000:00:01:0: MSI quirk detected;  subordinated MSI disabled ... David Wright <deblis@lionunicorn.co.uk> - 2021-05-01 06:50 +0200
                        Re: pci 0000:00:01:0: MSI quirk detected; subordinated MSI disabled  ... davidson <davidson@freevolt.org> - 2021-04-28 23:00 +0200
                    Re: pci 0000:00:01:0: MSI quirk detected; subordinated MSI disabled  ... davidson <davidson@freevolt.org> - 2021-04-29 01:20 +0200
                      Re: pci 0000:00:01:0: MSI quirk detected; subordinated MSI disabled  ... Dan Ritter <dsr@randomstring.org> - 2021-04-29 03:50 +0200
                      Re: pci 0000:00:01:0: MSI quirk detected; subordinated MSI disabled ... Albretch Mueller <lbrtchx@gmail.com> - 2021-04-29 22:40 +0200
                        OT: alpha-offset format (was Re: pci 0000:00:01:0: MSI quirk detected;  subordinated MSI disabled ...) davidson <davidson@freevolt.org> - 2021-05-01 01:40 +0200

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#234597 — Re: pci 0000:00:01:0: MSI quirk detected; subordinated MSI disabled ...

On Tue, 27 Apr 2021 Albretch Mueller wrote:
>> Or toggle "javascript.enabled" to false in "about:config" - no
>> extensions required.
>
> the assumption being that you would use, trust firefox. A
> well-documented, XML-based open source kind of proxy/gateway through
> which all requests are sent and received would work with any
> browser.
> ~
> I think, given the options, the suggested idea not to install
> networking at all (one of the install options with Linux) wins the
> prize; then:
>
> b) an exposed "inet" user for the session should be defined with a
> RAM drive as its home directory;
> c) for whom -exclusively- the network card's device driver should be
> installed (is here a hack to install a device driver entirely from
> user space? probably, a Debian HURD kind of thing on which the basic
> hook for the networking service is exposed and a user space program
> would take it from there?);
> d) then all access to the Internet go through a client proxy run by "inet";
> e) acting as a squid-like application proxy;
> e.1) parsing all text/html content coming in, first cleansing it into
> well-fomed xhtml with some HTML parser, then using XPath, java
> Nasshorn, the principles of the Burp Suite + wireshark + page Reader +
> ...;
> e.1.1) sanitzing the page into alpha-offset format;

What is "alpha-offset format"?

-- 
Ce qui est important est rarement urgent
et ce qui est urgent est rarement important
-- Dwight David Eisenhower

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#234616

> What is "alpha-offset format"?

 we, corpora research kinds of folks, need to process thousand of
files as other people process bytes. UTF8 was basically an
Americanizierung of alle alphabets. UTF is great to describe an
alphabet but not for text files.

 UTF8 turned all files into streams not good for questions such as
what is the charatcer/string sequence starting on the nth addressable
unit of a file ...

 Doing that with utF8 is from way too complicated to impossible. Also
alpha offset nicely splits the files segments into its different
parts: ALPHABETICAL text, js, css, ...

 lbrtchx

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#234618 — Re: pci 0000:00:01:0: MSI quirk detected; subordinated MSI disabled ...

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On 29/04/2021 14:03, Albretch Mueller wrote:
>> What is "alpha-offset format"?
>  we, corpora research kinds of folks, need to process thousand of
> files as other people process bytes. UTF8 was basically an
> Americanizierung of alle alphabets. UTF is great to describe an
> alphabet but not for text files.
>
>  UTF8 turned all files into streams not good for questions such as
> what is the charatcer/string sequence starting on the nth addressable
> unit of a file ...

Depends on what you mean by "addressable unit", surely? UTF8 is a
variable-length record format, but it's still addressable. Basically,
it's like taking a CSV file and saying "what's the contents of the cell
starting at byte 123"? CSV cells are variable length. Perhaps there
isn't such a cell. If you want to know the contents of the cell which
includes byte 123, then you need some context, don't you?

>
>  Doing that with utF8 is from way too complicated to impossible. Also
> alpha offset nicely splits the files segments into its different
> parts: ALPHABETICAL text, js, css, ...
So, do you use something more like UTF-32?
>
>  lbrtchx
>

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#234628

On Thursday, April 29, 2021 09:03:59 AM Albretch Mueller wrote:
> > What is "alpha-offset format"?
> 
>  we, corpora research kinds of folks, need to process thousand of
> files as other people process bytes. UTF8 was basically an
> Americanizierung of alle alphabets. UTF is great to describe an
> alphabet but not for text files.
> 
>  UTF8 turned all files into streams not good for questions such as
> what is the charatcer/string sequence starting on the nth addressable
> unit of a file ...
> 
>  Doing that with utF8 is from way too complicated to impossible. Also
> alpha offset nicely splits the files segments into its different
> parts: ALPHABETICAL text, js, css, ...

Ok, but what does it look like?  (What is the format?)

A google search shows only links to this thread and some page about its 
relevance to aiming a telescope -- I strongly suspect that is not relevant to 
your use case.

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#234633 — Re: pci 0000:00:01:0: MSI quirk detected; subordinated MSI disabled ...

On Thu 29 Apr 2021 at 11:33:29 (-0400), rhkramer@gmail.com wrote:
> On Thursday, April 29, 2021 09:03:59 AM Albretch Mueller wrote:
> > > What is "alpha-offset format"?
> > 
> >  we, corpora research kinds of folks, need to process thousand of
> > files as other people process bytes. UTF8 was basically an
> > Americanizierung of alle alphabets.

"Americanizierung" merely seems an odd way of saying that UTF8 favours
the Roman alphabet in terms of the length of encoded strings.

> > UTF is great to describe an
> > alphabet but not for text files.

Are we now discussing non-alphabetic scripts? Beats me.

> >  UTF8 turned all files into streams not good for questions such as
> > what is the charatcer/string sequence starting on the nth addressable
> > unit of a file ...

It's very good for such questions, because it is unambiguous whether
the nth addressable unit (let's say byte) is the start of a character
or not. When it /is/ the start of a character, the number of bytes in
the character is given by at most 1–5 bits of that first byte, so you
don't have to hunt for some kind of terminating byte.

> >  Doing that with utF8 is from way too complicated to impossible.

OTOH it's not straightforward to determine at which byte does the
nth character start. Perhaps that is what you meant to say.

> > Also
> > alpha offset nicely splits the files segments into its different
> > parts: ALPHABETICAL text, js, css, ...

I'd be interested to see examples of JavaScript and Cascading Style
Sheets written in non-ALPHABETICAL text.

> Ok, but what does it look like?  (What is the format?)
> 
> A google search shows only links to this thread and some page about its 
> relevance to aiming a telescope -- I strongly suspect that is not relevant to 
> your use case.

Whatever it is is not well described by that post, but perhaps
better by (e.1.2) immediately following it.

>From the context, alpha-offset format sounds like jargon for what
html2text does with a web page, which is to separate the text you
want to read from all the interspersed code that controls how it
would be displayed by a browser.

That text¹, in whatever encoding, and now called "corpora", could be
analysed as part of someone's corpus linguistics research.

The major problem that seems to be exercising this thread at this
point is that the OP needs to swallow scads of documents, some, many,
perhaps most of which are on the web, but process them on a computer
that has never been connected to the internet.

Some of us, decades ago, were coping with this problem, as it applies
to the software, in the days before Debian's tools had evolved to the
functionality they now have. These tools seem to have been overlooked.

And so we have discussions of removing networking from the kernel,
redesigning apt using java, and de-americanising unicode, all
closely monitored, keystroke by keystroke, by NSAs around the world.
Typical debian-user, eh? Did we ever decide which meaning of MSI
applied for explaining the quirk in the subject line? Perhaps
Randolph Quirk would coincidentally have held an opinion.

¹ I assume a similar treatment is meted out to PDFs, and the cache
of videos is fed into a speech analyser, all to add to the mountain
of text.

Cheers,
David.

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#234676 — Re: pci 0000:00:01:0: MSI quirk detected; subordinated MSI disabled ...

On Thu, 29 Apr 2021 Albretch Mueller wrote:
>> What is "alpha-offset format"?
>
> we, corpora research kinds of folks, need to process thousand of
> files as other people process bytes.

That was a helpful clue, that it could be a term of art in corpus
linguistics.

After some searches in that direction, I found a couple of papers
using the term "character offset format", which sounds a little more
familiar.

> UTF8 was basically an Americanizierung of alle alphabets.

All roads lead to [DEL: Rome :DEL] American Standard Code for
Information Interchange.

> UTF is great to describe an alphabet but not for text files.
>
> UTF8 turned all files into streams not good for questions such as
> what is the charatcer/string sequence starting on the nth
> addressable unit of a file ...

Variable-width encoding is a complication if you need random access to
the nth character. I see.

> Doing that with utF8 is from way too complicated to impossible.

The solution, clearly, is for everyone to use UTF-32 instead.

> Also alpha offset nicely splits the files segments into its
> different parts: ALPHABETICAL text, js, css, ...

Ah. It sets *character data* apart from markup, annotations, etc.

  Definition: All text that is not markup constitutes the "character
  data" of the document. ( https://www.w3.org/TR/REC-xml/#dt-chardata )

An alpha/character offset format separates the data from things said
*about* the data.

If I understand you correctly, that is.

Now I wonder how this might enable random access to the nth
character. I will keep looking around.

Anyways, thank you for taking the time to elaborate.

And good luck with your projects. Many of the points in your outline
here

   https://lists.debian.org/msgid-search/CAFakBwg8yrCe1MFvK91_Ovu6HOO24cz=rm101mbcDBLZ0=TU9Q@mail.gmail.com

particularly the ones under section

>  e) acting as a squid-like application proxy

are on my wishlist, because I think a web browser should resemble more
a pair of binoculars than the eyelid retainers in Stanley Kubrick's A
Clockwork Orange.

-- 
Ce qui est important est rarement urgent
et ce qui est urgent est rarement important
-- Dwight David Eisenhower

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#234677 — [OFFTOPIC] Re: pci 0000:00:01:0: MSI quirk detected; subordinated MSI disabled ...

> Now I wonder how this might enable random access to the nth
> character.  I will keep looking around.

Another part of the question is: why would someone give you the position
information in terms of characters rather than in terms of (say) bytes,
or words, or ...


        Stefan

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#234681 — Re: [OFFTOPIC] Re: pci 0000:00:01:0: MSI quirk detected; subordinated MSI disabled ...

On Fri 30 Apr 2021 at 19:17:55 (-0400), Stefan Monnier wrote:
> > Now I wonder how this might enable random access to the nth
> > character.  I will keep looking around.
> 
> Another part of the question is: why would someone give you the position
> information in terms of characters rather than in terms of (say) bytes,
> or words, or ...

I thought we'd scotched bytes, because the number of bytes in a
character depends on the encoding: the simple letter A occupies
1 byte in ASCII and UTF-8, 2 bytes in UTF-16, and 4 in UTF-32.

> or words,

Counting words raises the problem of compound words, because people
spell them differently: as separate words with spaces, or hyphenated,
or as a single word. In English, compound words tend to evolve in
that order, as we grow comfortable with seeing the words joined
together. So the same sentence might have fewer words in it just
because it was written in more modern times.

> or ...

It's fairly usual to count characters, ignoring whitespace
and punctuation. There are still complications for languages
like Welsh, where there are single letters like ch and ll.
I remember, as a small child on holiday, learning to spell,
pronounce and translate the 58-letter place name
Llanfairpwllgwyngyllgogerychwyrndrobwllllantysiliogogogoch
and not realising for years that it was only 51 letters long,
and didn't really contain a 4-letter repeat.

BTW I, too, naturally googled A-O F, and found the same telescopic
reference as rhkramer, though looking once again, I see this thread is
starting to add far more hits for the term (which I won't repeat here).

Cheers,
David.

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#234596 — Re: pci 0000:00:01:0: MSI quirk detected; subordinated MSI disabled ...

On Fri, 23 Apr 2021 Albretch Mueller wrote:
On Thu 22 Apr 2021 Dan Ritter wrote:
>> What you lose this way (besides time) is having apt calculate
>> which supporting packages you need. However,
>
>> https://packages.debian.org
>
>> will happily tell you all the dependencies of any given package,
>> and then you can get all the dependencies of each of those, and
>> so on.
>
> yes, and "japt" would scrape those pages or even simulate apt to
> figure out all dependencies and then download all the packages you
> need to install locally, off line.
> ~

How similar, to the offline machine that will install the packages, is
the machine that connects to the internet to download them ?

If sufficiently similar, there is the '-d' option (--download-only)
for apt-get.

-- 
Ce qui est important est rarement urgent
et ce qui est urgent est rarement important
-- Dwight David Eisenhower

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#234598 — Re: pci 0000:00:01:0: MSI quirk detected; subordinated MSI disabled ...

On Thu, 22 Apr 2021 Albretch Mueller wrote:
[snip]
>
> I will get "married" to Debian (why not? some people would marry
> their pets ... ;-)) if it includes the following startup options right
> of the live DVD:
>
> * toram
> * memtest
> * testCD
>
> In my opinion none of those functions are hard to include at all.
>
> You can -almost- always go monkey and do that one way or another, but
> I would like for Debian to make more official an offline mode for
> using apt probably based on java, so that any machine could be used to
> download packages to be then installed off-line for those of us who
> don't/can't see the Internet as a trusted environment.

I haven't seen anyone mention apt-offline in this thread, so I will
mention it now:

   apt-offline is an Offline APT Package Manager.
   .
   apt-offline can fully update and upgrade an APT based distribution
   without connecting to the network, all of it transparent to APT.
   .
   apt-offline can be used to generate a signature on a machine (with
   no network).  This signature contains all download information
   required for the APT database system. This signature file can be
   used on another machine connected to the internet (which need not be
   a Debian box and can even be running windows) to download the
   updates.  The downloaded data will contain all updates in a format
   understood by APT and this data can be used by apt-offline to update
   the non-networked machine.
   .
   apt-offline can also fetch bug reports and make them available
   offline.
   Homepage: https://github.com/rickysarraf/apt-offline

I have no experience using it.  Looks to me like for buster you need
to get it from backports.

-- 
Ce qui est important est rarement urgent
et ce qui est urgent est rarement important
-- Dwight David Eisenhower

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#234602 — Re: pci 0000:00:01:0: MSI quirk detected; subordinated MSI disabled ...

davidson wrote: 
> > I would like for Debian to make more official an offline mode for
> > using apt probably based on java, so that any machine could be used to
> > download packages to be then installed off-line for those of us who
> > don't/can't see the Internet as a trusted environment.
> 
> I haven't seen anyone mention apt-offline in this thread, so I will
> mention it now:

Thanks! I didn't know about it.

-dsr-

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#234638

> I haven't seen anyone mention apt-offline in this thread, so I will
> mention it now:
>
>    apt-offline is an Offline APT Package Manager.
>    .
>    apt-offline can fully update and upgrade an APT based distribution
>    without connecting to the network, all of it transparent to APT.
>    .
>    apt-offline can be used to generate a signature on a machine (with
>    no network).  This signature contains all download information
>    required for the APT database system. This signature file can be
>    used on another machine connected to the internet (which need not be
>    a Debian box and can even be running windows) to download the
>    updates.  The downloaded data will contain all updates in a format
>    understood by APT and this data can be used by apt-offline to update
>    the non-networked machine.
>    .
>    apt-offline can also fetch bug reports and make them available
>    offline.
>    Homepage: https://github.com/rickysarraf/apt-offline
>
> I have no experience using it.  Looks to me like for buster you need
> to get it from backports.


 thank you very much. I see myself using it intensively to deal with
my kinds of problems.
 the best guideline I found at:

 https://sleeplessbeastie.eu/2014/01/30/how-to-manage-packages-on-an-off-line-debian-system/

 about the alpha-offset encoding, please, givie me some time to answer
your questions, write up the idea more fully, clearly and I think we
should probably start a new thread to discuss it

 lbrtchx

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#234678 — OT: alpha-offset format (was Re: pci 0000:00:01:0: MSI quirk detected; subordinated MSI disabled ...)

On Thu, 29 Apr 2021 Albretch Mueller wrote:
[dd]
>
> about the alpha-offset encoding, please, givie me some time to answer
> your questions,

Of course. Whenever. No hurry.

> write up the idea more fully, clearly

I won't discourage anyone determined to explain the tools of their
specialty to the layman. That would be very cool of you.

But a pointer to some description/specification of such a format would
work too, if that turns out to be convenient.

> and I think we should probably start a new thread to discuss it

Heh. Probably true.

-- 
Ce qui est important est rarement urgent
et ce qui est urgent est rarement important
-- Dwight David Eisenhower

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