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Re: Multichannel audio playback (was: Multichannel audio listening)

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  Re: Multichannel audio playback (was: Multichannel audio listening) Joel Roth <joelz@pobox.com> - 2021-04-27 22:40 +0200
    Re: Multichannel audio playback (was: Multichannel audio listening) Joel Roth <joelz@pobox.com> - 2021-04-27 23:20 +0200
      Re: Multichannel audio playback Rodolfo Medina <rodolfo.medina@gmail.com> - 2021-04-28 09:40 +0200
        Re: Multichannel audio playback didier gaumet <didier.gaumet@gmail.com> - 2021-04-28 10:50 +0200
          Re: Multichannel audio playback Rodolfo Medina <rodolfo.medina@gmail.com> - 2021-04-28 13:50 +0200
            Re: Multichannel audio playback didier gaumet <didier.gaumet@gmail.com> - 2021-04-28 15:00 +0200
            Re: Multichannel audio playback Joel Roth <joelz@pobox.com> - 2021-04-28 19:30 +0200
              Re: Multichannel audio playback Rodolfo Medina <rodolfo.medina@gmail.com> - 2021-04-28 20:30 +0200
                Re: Multichannel audio playback Joel Roth <joelz@pobox.com> - 2021-04-28 20:40 +0200
                  Re: Multichannel audio playback Rodolfo Medina <rodolfo.medina@gmail.com> - 2021-04-28 21:00 +0200
                Re: Multichannel audio playback didier gaumet <didier.gaumet@gmail.com> - 2021-04-29 09:30 +0200
                  Re: Multichannel audio playback Rodolfo Medina <rodolfo.medina@gmail.com> - 2021-04-29 15:00 +0200
                    Re: Multichannel audio playback didier gaumet <didier.gaumet@gmail.com> - 2021-04-29 19:20 +0200
                Re: Multichannel audio playback David Wright <deblis@lionunicorn.co.uk> - 2021-04-30 06:00 +0200
                  Re: Multichannel audio playback Dan Ritter <dsr@randomstring.org> - 2021-04-30 15:30 +0200
                    Re: Multichannel audio playback David Wright <deblis@lionunicorn.co.uk> - 2021-05-01 06:50 +0200
                      Re: Multichannel audio playback Rodolfo Medina <rodolfo.medina@gmail.com> - 2021-05-01 10:30 +0200
                        Re: Multichannel audio playback David Wright <deblis@lionunicorn.co.uk> - 2021-05-04 18:10 +0200

#234562 — Re: Multichannel audio playback (was: Multichannel audio listening)

On Tue, Apr 27, 2021, Rodolfo Medina wrote:
 
> Four years ago this interesting thread.  Now I've purchased a Behringer
> UMC404HD 4-channels audio interface and finally want to do my experiment.  Now
> I have a 3-channel .wav file and 3 loudspeakers connected to Behringer's
> output: I want to playback each channel to a different speaker.  I get error:
> 
> $ ecasound -i 3canali.wav -f:16,3,44100 -o alsahw,2,0
> **************************************************************************
> *        ecasound v2.9.1 (C) 1997-2014 Kai Vehmanen and others    
> **************************************************************************
> (eca-chainsetup) Chainsetup "untitled-chainsetup"
> (eca-chainsetup) NOTE: Real-time configuration, but insufficient privileges
> ... to utilize real-time scheduling (SCHED_FIFO). With small buffersizes,
> ... this may cause audible glitches during processing.
> (eca-chainsetup) "rt" buffering mode selected.
> ERROR:  Connecting chainsetup failed: "Enabling chainsetup: AUDIOIO-WAVE:
> ... Only WAVE_FORMAT_PCM and WAVE_FORMAT_IEEE_FLOAT are supported."

Hi Rodolfo,

As didier gaumet writes, 3canali.wav is not one of
ecasound's supported formats. You should find out what it
is. Maybe try 

file 3canali.wav

Also, ecasound can use libsndfile to expand the range of 
compatible audiofiles for reading and writing.

ecasound -i:libsndfile,audiofile -o alsa

If the extension doesn't match the file format, you can
specify the file type, e.g.

ecasound -i:libsndfile,audiofile,aiff -o alsa

cheers

-- 
Joel Roth

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#234563

On Tue, Apr 27, 2021 at 10:22:11AM -1000, Joel Roth wrote:
> 
> ecasound -i:libsndfile,audiofile -o alsa
 
that should be -i:sndfile 


-- 
Joel Roth

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#234565 — Re: Multichannel audio playback

Joel Roth <joelz@pobox.com> writes:

> On Tue, Apr 27, 2021 at 10:22:11AM -1000, Joel Roth wrote:
>> 
>> ecasound -i:libsndfile,audiofile -o alsa
>  
> that should be -i:sndfile 


Thanks, Joel...


2 problems seem to be involved:

1) make ecasound read and play the file;

2) properly use all those many outputs on the Behringer's back.

(Up to now, I can't make the `B' Playback Outputs work yet.  Only `A' seem to
respond.)

First of all, problem 1): same error now with a 2-channel and a 3-channel file:


$ ecasound -i:2canali.wav -o alsahw,2,0
**************************************************************************
*        ecasound v2.9.1 (C) 1997-2014 Kai Vehmanen and others    
**************************************************************************
(eca-chainsetup) Chainsetup "untitled-chainsetup"
(eca-chainsetup) NOTE: Real-time configuration, but insufficient privileges
... to utilize real-time scheduling (SCHED_FIFO). With small buffersizes,
... this may cause audible glitches during processing.
(eca-chainsetup) "rt" buffering mode selected.
(eca-chainsetup) NOTE: using existing audio parameters -f:s16_le,2,48000
... for object '2canali.wav' (tried to open with -f:s16_le,2,44100).
(eca-chainsetup) Opened input "2canali.wav", mode "read". Format: s16_le,
... channels 2, srate 48000, interleaved (locked params).
ERROR:  Connecting chainsetup failed: "Enabling chainsetup: AUDIOIO-ALSA:
... Channel count 2 is out of range!"



$ ecasound -i:sndfile,3canali.wav -o alsahw,2,0
**************************************************************************
*        ecasound v2.9.1 (C) 1997-2014 Kai Vehmanen and others    
**************************************************************************
(eca-chainsetup) Chainsetup "untitled-chainsetup"
(eca-chainsetup) NOTE: Real-time configuration, but insufficient privileges
... to utilize real-time scheduling (SCHED_FIFO). With small buffersizes,
... this may cause audible glitches during processing.
(eca-chainsetup) "rt" buffering mode selected.
(audioio_sndfile) Using libsndfile to open file "3canali.wav" for reading.
(eca-chainsetup) NOTE: using existing audio parameters -f:s16_le,3,48000
... for object 'sndfile' (tried to open with -f:s16_le,2,44100).
(eca-chainsetup) Opened input "sndfile", mode "read". Format: s16_le,
... channels 3, srate 48000, interleaved (locked params).
ERROR:  Connecting chainsetup failed: "Enabling chainsetup: AUDIOIO-ALSA:
... Channel count 2 is out of range!"


Both files were created via `sox -M' command from respectively 2 and 3 mono
files.


Please help if you can.

Thanks

Rodolfo

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#234566 — Re: Multichannel audio playback

Le 28/04/2021 à 09:37, Rodolfo Medina a écrit :
[...]
> First of all, problem 1): same error now with a 2-channel and a 3-channel file:
[...]
> ERROR:  Connecting chainsetup failed: "Enabling chainsetup: AUDIOIO-ALSA:
> ... Channel count 2 is out of range!"
[...]

http://nosignal.fi/ecasound/Documentation/examples.html#multichannel

I do not use ecasound but it seems to me that this indicates that by 
default ecasound is in a one channel (mono, channel #1) mode and that 
channels have to be specified with -a, perhaps like this:

$ ecasound -a:1,2,3 -i:sndfile,3canali.wav -o alsahw,2,0
  or perhaps
$ ecasound -a:all -i:sndfile,3canali.wav -o alsahw,2,0

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#234571 — Re: Multichannel audio playback

didier gaumet <didier.gaumet@gmail.com> writes:

> Le 28/04/2021 à 09:37, Rodolfo Medina a écrit :
> [...]
>> First of all, problem 1): same error now with a 2-channel and a 3-channel
>> file:
> [...]
>> ERROR:  Connecting chainsetup failed: "Enabling chainsetup: AUDIOIO-ALSA:
>> ... Channel count 2 is out of range!"
> [...]
>
> http://nosignal.fi/ecasound/Documentation/examples.html#multichannel
>
> I do not use ecasound but it seems to me that this indicates that by default
> ecasound is in a one channel (mono, channel #1) mode and that channels have
> to be specified with -a, perhaps like this:
>
> $ ecasound -a:1,2,3 -i:sndfile,3canali.wav -o alsahw,2,0
>  or perhaps
> $ ecasound -a:all -i:sndfile,3canali.wav -o alsahw,2,0


Thanks, Didier:

it seems to work with 2 channels:

$ ecasound -a:1,2 -i:sndfile,2canali.wav -o alsahw,2,0
**************************************************************************
*        ecasound v2.9.1 (C) 1997-2014 Kai Vehmanen and others    
**************************************************************************
(eca-chainsetup) Chainsetup "untitled-chainsetup"
(eca-chainsetup) NOTE: Real-time configuration, but insufficient privileges
... to utilize real-time scheduling (SCHED_FIFO). With small buffersizes,
... this may cause audible glitches during processing.
(eca-chainsetup) "rt" buffering mode selected.
(audioio_sndfile) Using libsndfile to open file "2canali.wav" for reading.
(eca-chainsetup) NOTE: using existing audio parameters -f:s16_le,2,48000
... for object 'sndfile' (tried to open with -f:s16_le,2,44100).
(eca-chainsetup) Opened input "sndfile", mode "read". Format: s16_le,
... channels 2, srate 48000, interleaved (locked params).
(eca-chainsetup) Opened output "alsahw", mode "write". Format: s16_le,
... channels 2, srate 48000, interleaved.
- [ Connected chainsetup: "untitled-chainsetup" ] ------------------------
- [ Controller/Starting batch processing ] -------------------------------
- [ Engine - Driver start ] ----------------------------------------------

- [ Engine - Processing finished ] ---------------------------------------
- [ Controller/Batch processing finished (0) ] ---------------------------
- [ Controller/Processing stopped (cond) ] -------------------------------
- [ Engine exiting ] -----------------------------------------------------
(eca-control-objects) Disconnecting chainsetup:  "untitled-chainsetup".


but not with 3:

$ ecasound -a:1,2,3 -i:sndfile,3canali.wav -o alsahw,2,0
**************************************************************************
*        ecasound v2.9.1 (C) 1997-2014 Kai Vehmanen and others    
**************************************************************************
(eca-chainsetup) Chainsetup "untitled-chainsetup"
(eca-chainsetup) NOTE: Real-time configuration, but insufficient privileges
... to utilize real-time scheduling (SCHED_FIFO). With small buffersizes,
... this may cause audible glitches during processing.
(eca-chainsetup) "rt" buffering mode selected.
(audioio_sndfile) Using libsndfile to open file "3canali.wav" for reading.
(eca-chainsetup) NOTE: using existing audio parameters -f:s16_le,3,48000
... for object 'sndfile' (tried to open with -f:s16_le,2,44100).
(eca-chainsetup) Opened input "sndfile", mode "read". Format: s16_le,
... channels 3, srate 48000, interleaved (locked params).
ERROR:  Connecting chainsetup failed: "Enabling chainsetup: AUDIOIO-ALSA:
... Channel count 2 is out of range!"


Please help...

Rodolfo

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#234575 — Re: Multichannel audio playback

Le 28/04/2021 à 13:48, Rodolfo Medina a écrit :
[...]
> $ ecasound -a:1,2,3 -i:sndfile,3canali.wav -o alsahw,2,0
[...]

I would suggest you to try here to replace alshw by alsaplugin and see 
if it works better

If you want to use ecasound, I suggest you read the ecasound 
documentation (particularly but not limited to the examples):
http://nosignal.fi/ecasound/Documentation/index.html

I I were you (because I am not really aware of digital mixing (not even 
analog mixing) or low-level audio tools)   I would try higher level 
tools, for example a GUI DAW ( digital audio workstation) like Audacity 
or Ardour (probably overkill).

Using a CLI, one have to know what to do and how to do it while a GUI 
partially permits to guess this by exploring the menus, for example...

Good luck :-)

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#234585 — Re: Multichannel audio playback

On Wed, Apr 28, 2021 at 11:48:33AM +0000, Rodolfo Medina wrote:
> didier gaumet <didier.gaumet@gmail.com> writes:
> 
> > Le 28/04/2021 à 09:37, Rodolfo Medina a écrit :
> > [...]
> >> First of all, problem 1): same error now with a 2-channel and a 3-channel
> >> file:
> > [...]
> >> ERROR:  Connecting chainsetup failed: "Enabling chainsetup: AUDIOIO-ALSA:
> >> ... Channel count 2 is out of range!"
> > [...]
> >
> > http://nosignal.fi/ecasound/Documentation/examples.html#multichannel
> >
> > I do not use ecasound but it seems to me that this indicates that by default
> > ecasound is in a one channel (mono, channel #1) mode and that channels have
> > to be specified with -a, perhaps like this:
> >
> > $ ecasound -a:1,2,3 -i:sndfile,3canali.wav -o alsahw,2,0
> >  or perhaps
> > $ ecasound -a:all -i:sndfile,3canali.wav -o alsahw,2,0
> 
> 
> Thanks, Didier:
> 
> it seems to work with 2 channels:
> 
> $ ecasound -a:1,2 -i:sndfile,2canali.wav -o alsahw,2,0
> **************************************************************************
> *        ecasound v2.9.1 (C) 1997-2014 Kai Vehmanen and others    
> **************************************************************************
> (eca-chainsetup) Chainsetup "untitled-chainsetup"
> (eca-chainsetup) NOTE: Real-time configuration, but insufficient privileges
> ... to utilize real-time scheduling (SCHED_FIFO). With small buffersizes,
> ... this may cause audible glitches during processing.
> (eca-chainsetup) "rt" buffering mode selected.
> (audioio_sndfile) Using libsndfile to open file "2canali.wav" for reading.
> (eca-chainsetup) NOTE: using existing audio parameters -f:s16_le,2,4800
0
> ... for object 'sndfile' (tried to open with -f:s16_le,2,44100).
> (eca-chainsetup) Opened input "sndfile", mode "read". Format: s16_le,
> ... channels 2, srate 48000, interleaved (locked params).
> (eca-chainsetup) Opened output "alsahw", mode "write". Format: s16_le,
> ... channels 2, srate 48000, interleaved.
> - [ Connected chainsetup: "untitled-chainsetup" ] ------------------------
> - [ Controller/Starting batch processing ] -------------------------------
> - [ Engine - Driver start ] ----------------------------------------------
> 
> - [ Engine - Processing finished ] ---------------------------------------
> - [ Controller/Batch processing finished (0) ] ---------------------------
> - [ Controller/Processing stopped (cond) ] -------------------------------
> - [ Engine exiting ] -----------------------------------------------------
> (eca-control-objects) Disconnecting chainsetup:  "untitled-chainsetup".
> 
> 
> but not with 3:
> 
> $ ecasound -a:1,2,3 -i:sndfile,3canali.wav -o alsahw,2,0
> **************************************************************************
> *        ecasound v2.9.1 (C) 1997-2014 Kai Vehmanen and others    
> **************************************************************************
> (eca-chainsetup) Chainsetup "untitled-chainsetup"
> (eca-chainsetup) NOTE: Real-time configuration, but insufficient privileges
> ... to utilize real-time scheduling (SCHED_FIFO). With small buffersizes,
> ... this may cause audible glitches during processing.
> (eca-chainsetup) "rt" buffering mode selected.
> (audioio_sndfile) Using libsndfile to open file "3canali.wav" for reading.
> (eca-chainsetup) NOTE: using existing audio parameters -f:s16_le,3,4800
0
> ... for object 'sndfile' (tried to open with -f:s16_le,2,44100).
> (eca-chainsetup) Opened input "sndfile", mode "read". Format: s16_le,
> ... channels 3, srate 48000, interleaved (locked params).
> ERROR:  Connecting chainsetup failed: "Enabling chainsetup: AUDIOIO-ALSA:
> ... Channel count 2 is out of range!"
> 

Hi Rodolfo,

I don't think there is a problem with ecasound. 
For comparison, you can try

aplay -D <devicename> test.wav

You get the device name from aplay -L.
Please also show the output from 

cat /proc/asound/cards

With your ecasound examples, the -a argument is not necessary, and
selecting channels is not its purpose. 

cheers

> Please help...
> 
> Rodolfo
> 

-- 
Joel Roth

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#234588 — Re: Multichannel audio playback

Joel Roth <joelz@pobox.com> writes:

> I don't think there is a problem with ecasound. 
> For comparison, you can try
>
> aplay -D <devicename> test.wav
>
> You get the device name from aplay -L.
> Please also show the output from 
>
> cat /proc/asound/cards
>
> With your ecasound examples, the -a argument is not necessary, and
> selecting channels is not its purpose.


Now it works: 


$ ecasound -a:1,2,3 -i:sndfile,3canali.wav -o alsaplugin,2,0
**************************************************************************
*        ecasound v2.9.1 (C) 1997-2014 Kai Vehmanen and others    
**************************************************************************
(eca-chainsetup) Chainsetup "untitled-chainsetup"
(eca-chainsetup) NOTE: Real-time configuration, but insufficient privileges
... to utilize real-time scheduling (SCHED_FIFO). With small buffersizes,
... this may cause audible glitches during processing.
(eca-chainsetup) "rt" buffering mode selected.
(audioio_sndfile) Using libsndfile to open file "3canali.wav" for reading.
(eca-chainsetup) NOTE: using existing audio parameters -f:s16_le,3,48000
... for object 'sndfile' (tried to open with -f:s16_le,2,44100).
(eca-chainsetup) Opened input "sndfile", mode "read". Format: s16_le,
... channels 3, srate 48000, interleaved (locked params).
(eca-chainsetup) Opened output "alsaplugin", mode "write". Format: s16_le,
... channels 2, srate 48000, interleaved.
- [ Connected chainsetup: "untitled-chainsetup" ] ------------------------
- [ Controller/Starting batch processing ] -------------------------------
- [ Engine - Driver start ] ----------------------------------------------

- [ Engine - Processing finished ] ---------------------------------------
- [ Controller/Batch processing finished (0) ] ---------------------------
- [ Controller/Processing stopped (cond) ] -------------------------------
- [ Engine exiting ] -----------------------------------------------------
(eca-control-objects) Disconnecting chainsetup:  "untitled-chainsetup".


So we could consider problem 1) solved.

Let's try to go to problem 2).  The above command properly sends channel 1 to
loudspeaker 1 and channel 2 to loudspeaker 2, but it doesn't manage to send
channel 3 into loudspeaker 3.  Actually, the Behringer seems to behave in
stereo mode.  But the strange thing is that outputs `B' (i.e. 3 and 4) do not
work at all and seems to be dead.  So please help: how can I - if ever possible
- send channel 3 to loudspeaker 3?  And, more in general: is it possible, even
with some other device, to achive what I want?

Thanks,

Rodolfo

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#234590 — Re: Multichannel audio playback

On Wed, Apr 28, 2021 at 06:21:27PM +0000, Rodolfo Medina wrote:
> Joel Roth <joelz@pobox.com> writes:
> 
> > I don't think there is a problem with ecasound. 
> > For comparison, you can try
> >
> > aplay -D <devicename> test.wav
> >
> > You get the device name from aplay -L.
> > Please also show the output from 
> >
> > cat /proc/asound/cards
> >
> > With your ecasound examples, the -a argument is not necessary, and
> > selecting channels is not its purpose.
> 
> 
> Now it works: 
> 
> 
> $ ecasound -a:1,2,3 -i:sndfile,3canali.wav -o alsaplugin,2,0
> **************************************************************************
> *        ecasound v2.9.1 (C) 1997-2014 Kai Vehmanen and others    
> **************************************************************************
> (eca-chainsetup) Chainsetup "untitled-chainsetup"
> (eca-chainsetup) NOTE: Real-time configuration, but insufficient privileges
> ... to utilize real-time scheduling (SCHED_FIFO). With small buffersizes,
> ... this may cause audible glitches during processing.
> (eca-chainsetup) "rt" buffering mode selected.
> (audioio_sndfile) Using libsndfile to open file "3canali.wav" for reading.
> (eca-chainsetup) NOTE: using existing audio parameters -f:s16_le,3,48000
> ... for object 'sndfile' (tried to open with -f:s16_le,2,44100).
> (eca-chainsetup) Opened input "sndfile", mode "read". Format: s16_le,
> ... channels 3, srate 48000, interleaved (locked params).
> (eca-chainsetup) Opened output "alsaplugin", mode "write". Format: s16_le,
> ... channels 2, srate 48000, interleaved.
> - [ Connected chainsetup: "untitled-chainsetup" ] ------------------------
> - [ Controller/Starting batch processing ] -------------------------------
> - [ Engine - Driver start ] ----------------------------------------------
> 
> - [ Engine - Processing finished ] ---------------------------------------
> - [ Controller/Batch processing finished (0) ] ---------------------------
> - [ Controller/Processing stopped (cond) ] -------------------------------
> - [ Engine exiting ] -----------------------------------------------------
> (eca-control-objects) Disconnecting chainsetup:  "untitled-chainsetup".
> 
> 
> So we could consider problem 1) solved.
> 
> Let's try to go to problem 2).  The above command properly sends channel 1 to
> loudspeaker 1 and channel 2 to loudspeaker 2, but it doesn't manage to send
> channel 3 into loudspeaker 3.  Actually, the Behringer seems to behave in
> stereo mode.  But the strange thing is that outputs `B' (i.e. 3 and 4) do not
> work at all and seems to be dead.  So please help: how can I - if ever possible
> - send channel 3 to loudspeaker 3?  And, more in general: is it possible, even
> with some other device, to achive what I want?

The soundcard capabilities that linux sees are documented
in the /proc/asound filesystem. That's worth investigating.

Here's one reference to what you can find there:

https://www.ti.com/lit/an/sprac10/sprac10.pdf

Another helpful source for guidance would be the Linux Audio
Users mailing list, with many knowledgeable and helpful
members. 

cheers


> Thanks,
> 
> Rodolfo
> 

-- 
Joel Roth

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#234591 — Re: Multichannel audio playback

Joel Roth <joelz@pobox.com> writes:

>> So we could consider problem 1) solved.
>> 
>> Let's try to go to problem 2).  The above command properly sends channel 1
>> to loudspeaker 1 and channel 2 to loudspeaker 2, but it doesn't manage to
>> send channel 3 into loudspeaker 3.  Actually, the Behringer seems to behave
>> in stereo mode.  But the strange thing is that outputs `B' (i.e. 3 and 4) do
>> not work at all and seems to be dead.  So please help: how can I - if ever
>> possible - send channel 3 to loudspeaker 3?  And, more in general: is it
>> possible, even with some other device, to achive what I want?
>
> The soundcard capabilities that linux sees are documented
> in the /proc/asound filesystem. That's worth investigating.

Here's the output:

$ cat /proc/asound/cards
 0 [HDMI           ]: HDA-Intel - HDA ATI HDMI
                      HDA ATI HDMI at 0xfea64000 irq 38
 1 [Generic        ]: HDA-Intel - HD-Audio Generic
                      HD-Audio Generic at 0xfea60000 irq 16
 2 [U192k          ]: USB-Audio - UMC404HD 192k
                      BEHRINGER UMC404HD 192k at usb-0000:00:12.0-1.2, high speed

It does not help me...

> Here's one reference to what you can find there:
>
> https://www.ti.com/lit/an/sprac10/sprac10.pdf
>
> Another helpful source for guidance would be the Linux Audio
> Users mailing list, with many knowledgeable and helpful
> members. 

Yes, I wrote to it before buying the Behringer and I will again now.  Some
lister was unkind and called me ignorant...  ;-)

Rodolfo

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#234605 — Re: Multichannel audio playback

Did you adjust the volume of output 3 and 4 in alsa? if you are lucky, 
the routing is correct and these outputs are only muted.

But I think (no pun intended) that in your present case, you need to 
learn about:
- mixing and mastering (partcularly routing)
- particular abilites or limitations of your Behringer interface
- linux low-level tools if that is what you want to use
That's why I suggested you to use GUI tools, because, while perhaps 
sometimes bloated or in certains cases not offering certains options 
that a CLI tool proposes sometimes, GUI tools are more intuitive. And 
it's easier to learn only mixing/mastering than mixing/mastering and 
linux audio internals at the same time.

As a starting point a tutorial about audio routing could be of use to 
activate outputs 3&4 and chose what to feed them in (sorry if this is 
not a correct sentence, I'm french). There is the routing chapter of 
Ardour tutorial:
http://brunoruviaro.github.io/ardour4-tutorial/understanding-routing/
but the whole tutorial could be of interest

Cheers

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#234613 — Re: Multichannel audio playback

didier gaumet <didier.gaumet@gmail.com> writes:

> Did you adjust the volume of output 3 and 4 in alsa? if you are lucky, the
> routing is correct and these outputs are only muted.
>
> But I think (no pun intended) that in your present case, you need to learn
> about: - mixing and mastering (partcularly routing) - particular abilites or
> limitations of your Behringer interface - linux low-level tools if that is
> what you want to use That's why I suggested you to use GUI tools, because,
> while perhaps sometimes bloated or in certains cases not offering certains
> options that a CLI tool proposes sometimes, GUI tools are more intuitive. And
> it's easier to learn only mixing/mastering than mixing/mastering and linux
> audio internals at the same time.
>
> As a starting point a tutorial about audio routing could be of use to
> activate outputs 3&4 and chose what to feed them in (sorry if this is not a
> correct sentence, I'm french). There is the routing chapter of Ardour
> tutorial:
> http://brunoruviaro.github.io/ardour4-tutorial/understanding-routing/ but the
> whole tutorial could be of interest


Yes, thanks, it is necessary to learn, beacuse noone replied who already did it
or knows exactly how to do it.  Actually I don't even know if that's ever
possible with Behringer or with any other device...

Rodolfo

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#234631 — Re: Multichannel audio playback

Le 29/04/2021 à 14:56, Rodolfo Medina a écrit :
[...]
> Actually I don't even know if that's ever
> possible with Behringer or with any other device...

- What you want is to play multiple channels: of course it is possible. 
Surround sound is one of the use cases:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Surround_sound
and it is commonly managed ("edited" is probably the correct word) on a DAW

- is it possible with your Behringer interface? As Jeremy Nicoll has 
judisciouly stated earlier, this interface is sold as a 4 inputs and 4 
outputs one (an information that I had overlooked), so I am almost sure 
it is possible (maybe I am wrong but Ias I see it, the only potential 
obstacle being limitations by the interface in certain use-cases and the 
need to do the routing on the PC)

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#234646 — Re: Multichannel audio playback

On Wed 28 Apr 2021 at 18:21:27 (+0000), Rodolfo Medina wrote:

> Now it works: 
> 
> $ ecasound -a:1,2,3 -i:sndfile,3canali.wav -o alsaplugin,2,0
> **************************************************************************
> *        ecasound v2.9.1 (C) 1997-2014 Kai Vehmanen and others    
> **************************************************************************
> (eca-chainsetup) Chainsetup "untitled-chainsetup"
> (eca-chainsetup) NOTE: Real-time configuration, but insufficient privileges
> ... to utilize real-time scheduling (SCHED_FIFO). With small buffersizes,
> ... this may cause audible glitches during processing.
> (eca-chainsetup) "rt" buffering mode selected.
> (audioio_sndfile) Using libsndfile to open file "3canali.wav" for reading.
> (eca-chainsetup) NOTE: using existing audio parameters -f:s16_le,3,48000
> ... for object 'sndfile' (tried to open with -f:s16_le,2,44100).
> (eca-chainsetup) Opened input "sndfile", mode "read". Format: s16_le,
> ... channels 3, srate 48000, interleaved (locked params).
> (eca-chainsetup) Opened output "alsaplugin", mode "write". Format: s16_le,
> ... channels 2, srate 48000, interleaved.
> - [ Connected chainsetup: "untitled-chainsetup" ] ------------------------
> - [ Controller/Starting batch processing ] -------------------------------
> - [ Engine - Driver start ] ----------------------------------------------
> 
> - [ Engine - Processing finished ] ---------------------------------------
> - [ Controller/Batch processing finished (0) ] ---------------------------
> - [ Controller/Processing stopped (cond) ] -------------------------------
> - [ Engine exiting ] -----------------------------------------------------
> (eca-control-objects) Disconnecting chainsetup:  "untitled-chainsetup".

> Let's try to go to problem 2).

It's difficult to know what you've actually done from this description.
I know nothing about the UMC404HD apart from the two downloaded PDFs,
8849567252510.pdf and download_259085.pdf. I know nothing about Ecasound.

Let me first reveal my ignorance by asking: does Ecasound run on your
computer, or on the Behringer?

I'm going to assume the former, that you're playing a file on the
computer in Ecasound, which then enters the Behringer via the USB
connection.

> The above command properly sends channel 1 to
> loudspeaker 1 and channel 2 to loudspeaker 2, but it doesn't manage to send
> channel 3 into loudspeaker 3.

How are these loudspeakers connected to the Behringer: which type of
connectors are used, in which sockets, and what's the pinout at each
end of the cables? What type of input do these loudspeakers expect
to be driven by: presumably not an unbalanced 50W into 8Ω!

> Actually, the Behringer seems to behave in
> stereo mode.

Do you mean that all three channels have been mixed into two channels,
and this is what you hear on your loudspeakers 1 and 2?

Isn't that what these lines might indicate:

> (eca-chainsetup) Opened input "sndfile", mode "read". Format: s16_le,
> ... channels 3, srate 48000, interleaved (locked params).
               ↑
> (eca-chainsetup) Opened output "alsaplugin", mode "write". Format: s16_le,
> ... channels 2, srate 48000, interleaved.
               ↑

Then the two channels exit the computer through:

 2 [U192k          ]: USB-Audio - UMC404HD 192k
                      BEHRINGER UMC404HD 192k at usb-0000:00:12.0-1.2, high speed

as channels 1 and 2.

(I told you I was ignorant.)

> But the strange thing is that outputs `B' (i.e. 3 and 4) do not
> work at all and seems to be dead.  So please help: how can I - if ever possible
> - send channel 3 to loudspeaker 3?  And, more in general: is it possible, even
> with some other device, to achive what I want?

I can only guess, because I know so little about the Behringer.
Here are questions I'd want to find the answers to by experimentation.

Your sound source is the computer?
Do the three channels become "inputs", controlled by those Gain knobs,
or do those only function with instruments/microphones (plugged in).
Do any of the SIG LEDs light up?
What's the effect of the Stereo/Mono button on your sound channels?
What's the effect of rotating the Mix (IN/PB) knob?
Are you also monitoring through the headphones? If so, what's the
effect of MONITOR A/B?
I won't ask about the Inserts, unless you say you're using them.

OK, my guess is that you're feeding the Behringer with two sound
channels, mixed by Ecasound on your computer, into its 1 and 2,
and that's what you're hearing played.  Your feedback might
completely change my mind.

BTW would it help to see what the output of

$ amixer -c 2 scontents

shows, ie the capabilities of the USB sound card. It sould be more
informative than   cat /proc/asound/cards.

Cheers,
David.

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#234663 — Re: Multichannel audio playback

David Wright wrote: 
> On Wed 28 Apr 2021 at 18:21:27 (+0000), Rodolfo Medina wrote:
> 
> > Now it works: 
> > 
> > $ ecasound -a:1,2,3 -i:sndfile,3canali.wav -o alsaplugin,2,0
> > **************************************************************************
> > *        ecasound v2.9.1 (C) 1997-2014 Kai Vehmanen and others    
> > **************************************************************************
> > (eca-chainsetup) Chainsetup "untitled-chainsetup"
> > (eca-chainsetup) NOTE: Real-time configuration, but insufficient privileges
> > ... to utilize real-time scheduling (SCHED_FIFO). With small buffersizes,
> > ... this may cause audible glitches during processing.
> > (eca-chainsetup) "rt" buffering mode selected.
> > (audioio_sndfile) Using libsndfile to open file "3canali.wav" for reading.
> > (eca-chainsetup) NOTE: using existing audio parameters -f:s16_le,3,48000
> > ... for object 'sndfile' (tried to open with -f:s16_le,2,44100).
> > (eca-chainsetup) Opened input "sndfile", mode "read". Format: s16_le,
> > ... channels 3, srate 48000, interleaved (locked params).
> > (eca-chainsetup) Opened output "alsaplugin", mode "write". Format: s16_le,
> > ... channels 2, srate 48000, interleaved.
> > - [ Connected chainsetup: "untitled-chainsetup" ] ------------------------
> > - [ Controller/Starting batch processing ] -------------------------------
> > - [ Engine - Driver start ] ----------------------------------------------
> > 
> > - [ Engine - Processing finished ] ---------------------------------------
> > - [ Controller/Batch processing finished (0) ] ---------------------------
> > - [ Controller/Processing stopped (cond) ] -------------------------------
> > - [ Engine exiting ] -----------------------------------------------------
> > (eca-control-objects) Disconnecting chainsetup:  "untitled-chainsetup".
> 
> > Let's try to go to problem 2).
> 
> It's difficult to know what you've actually done from this description.
> I know nothing about the UMC404HD apart from the two downloaded PDFs,
> 8849567252510.pdf and download_259085.pdf. I know nothing about Ecasound.
> 
> Let me first reveal my ignorance by asking: does Ecasound run on your
> computer, or on the Behringer?

The Behringer is a USB-attached sound card. It happens to have
four inputs and four outputs. This is not particularly unusual.

> I'm going to assume the former, that you're playing a file on the
> computer in Ecasound, which then enters the Behringer via the USB
> connection.

Correct.

> How are these loudspeakers connected to the Behringer: which type of
> connectors are used, in which sockets, and what's the pinout at each
> end of the cables? What type of input do these loudspeakers expect
> to be driven by: presumably not an unbalanced 50W into 8Ω!

Completely irrelevant. The Behringer produces four single
channel outputs at line level suitable for an amp or preamp. We
can assume that the original questioner has things hooked up
properly.

> > Actually, the Behringer seems to behave in
> > stereo mode.
> 
> Do you mean that all three channels have been mixed into two channels,
> and this is what you hear on your loudspeakers 1 and 2?
> 
> Isn't that what these lines might indicate:
> 
> > (eca-chainsetup) Opened input "sndfile", mode "read". Format: s16_le,
> > ... channels 3, srate 48000, interleaved (locked params).
>                ↑
> > (eca-chainsetup) Opened output "alsaplugin", mode "write". Format: s16_le,
> > ... channels 2, srate 48000, interleaved.

Yes, this means that ecasound is writing 2 channels, which is
what the question is all about.

The questioner wants ecasound to write 4 channels, which could
be:

ecasound using the wrong ALSA output

or

ALSA not presenting an acceptable 4 channel output, so ecasound
falls back.

-dsr-

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#234680 — Re: Multichannel audio playback

On Fri 30 Apr 2021 at 09:24:53 (-0400), Dan Ritter wrote:
> David Wright wrote: 
> > On Wed 28 Apr 2021 at 18:21:27 (+0000), Rodolfo Medina wrote:
> > > Now it works: 
> > > 
> > > $ ecasound -a:1,2,3 -i:sndfile,3canali.wav -o alsaplugin,2,0
> > > **************************************************************************
> > > *        ecasound v2.9.1 (C) 1997-2014 Kai Vehmanen and others    
> > > **************************************************************************
> > > (eca-chainsetup) Chainsetup "untitled-chainsetup"
> > > (eca-chainsetup) NOTE: Real-time configuration, but insufficient privileges
> > > ... to utilize real-time scheduling (SCHED_FIFO). With small buffersizes,
> > > ... this may cause audible glitches during processing.
> > > (eca-chainsetup) "rt" buffering mode selected.
> > > (audioio_sndfile) Using libsndfile to open file "3canali.wav" for reading.
> > > (eca-chainsetup) NOTE: using existing audio parameters -f:s16_le,3,48000
> > > ... for object 'sndfile' (tried to open with -f:s16_le,2,44100).
> > > (eca-chainsetup) Opened input "sndfile", mode "read". Format: s16_le,
> > > ... channels 3, srate 48000, interleaved (locked params).
> > > (eca-chainsetup) Opened output "alsaplugin", mode "write". Format: s16_le,
> > > ... channels 2, srate 48000, interleaved.
> > > - [ Connected chainsetup: "untitled-chainsetup" ] ------------------------
> > > - [ Controller/Starting batch processing ] -------------------------------
> > > - [ Engine - Driver start ] ----------------------------------------------
> > > 
> > > - [ Engine - Processing finished ] ---------------------------------------
> > > - [ Controller/Batch processing finished (0) ] ---------------------------
> > > - [ Controller/Processing stopped (cond) ] -------------------------------
> > > - [ Engine exiting ] -----------------------------------------------------
> > > (eca-control-objects) Disconnecting chainsetup:  "untitled-chainsetup".
> > 
> > > Let's try to go to problem 2).
> > 
> > It's difficult to know what you've actually done from this description.
> > I know nothing about the UMC404HD apart from the two downloaded PDFs,
> > 8849567252510.pdf and download_259085.pdf. I know nothing about Ecasound.
> > 
> > Let me first reveal my ignorance by asking: does Ecasound run on your
> > computer, or on the Behringer?
> 
> The Behringer is a USB-attached sound card. It happens to have
> four inputs and four outputs. This is not particularly unusual.

Ah, I see. When you put it like that, it throws a different light on
what the box really is. In terms of this computer, all those input
and output sockets are the equivalent of my little 3.5mm jacks
(but with phantom power), and the gain knobs are alsamixer sliders.

> > I'm going to assume the former, that you're playing a file on the
> > computer in Ecasound, which then enters the Behringer via the USB
> > connection.
> 
> Correct.

And so, by the sounds of the OP's solution post, the only
functionality of the Behringer being used is the four better quality
DACs (rather than my two), with four balanced outputs (rather than my
two unbalanced ones through a 3.5mm jack).

> > How are these loudspeakers connected to the Behringer: which type of
> > connectors are used, in which sockets, and what's the pinout at each
> > end of the cables? What type of input do these loudspeakers expect
> > to be driven by: presumably not an unbalanced 50W into 8Ω!
> 
> Completely irrelevant. The Behringer produces four single
> channel outputs at line level suitable for an amp or preamp. We
> can assume that the original questioner has things hooked up
> properly.

I didn't assume that because the OP wrote on Tuesday:

   "on the back of Behringer there are two groups of `playback
   outputs': group A and group B.  Each of the two groups has 4 holes:
   2 black 6.35mm, one red RCA and one white RCA.  Please help also to
   understand how to use them for my special purpose.  Besides, on
   Behringer's back there is one more group of outputs called `Main
   Out' and including two 6.35mm and two XLR."

> > > Actually, the Behringer seems to behave in
> > > stereo mode.

That, and didier's post, made me think the OP might have been using
the two Main outputs rather than three of the four playback outputs
(where playback here means Play).

> > Do you mean that all three channels have been mixed into two channels,
> > and this is what you hear on your loudspeakers 1 and 2?
> > 
> > Isn't that what these lines might indicate:
> > 
> > > (eca-chainsetup) Opened input "sndfile", mode "read". Format: s16_le,
> > > ... channels 3, srate 48000, interleaved (locked params).
> >                ↑
> > > (eca-chainsetup) Opened output "alsaplugin", mode "write". Format: s16_le,
> > > ... channels 2, srate 48000, interleaved.
> 
> Yes, this means that ecasound is writing 2 channels, which is
> what the question is all about.

As it turns out, yes. I presume the previous command (which "worked":
ecasound -a:1,2,3 -i:sndfile,3canali.wav -o alsaplugin,2,0) was using
the default number of output channels, likely two, and now corrected
with -f:16,3,44100.
           ↑

> The questioner wants ecasound to write 4 channels, which could
> be:
> 
> ecasound using the wrong ALSA output
> 
> or
> 
> ALSA not presenting an acceptable 4 channel output, so ecasound
> falls back.

So now it appears to be working for the OP, I have odd questions
about the unit:

. The least mentioned feature of the Behringer is the Inserts on the
  back. Do you know how they work?

. There's ½GB of compressed software that goes with this device.
  Are these programs various people's version of what ecasound is?

. Would it help to see what kind of difference there is between a
  sophisticated card like the Behringer and a run-of-the-mill
  soundcard, by listing the ALSA Controls with   amixer -c 2 scontents
  as I asked about earlier?

. On one of my PCs, I can record (Capture) the output of the Stereo Mix,
  which is the sound being played by the computer from, say. a browser:

    Simple mixer control 'Input Source',0
    Capabilities: cenum
    Items: 'Mic' 'Line' 'Stereo Mix'
    Item0: 'Stereo Mix'

  Would this unit be capable of providing that facility (which the
  rest of my surviving computers cannot do)?

Cheers,
David.

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#234688 — Re: Multichannel audio playback

David Wright <deblis@lionunicorn.co.uk> writes:

> In terms of this computer, all those input and output sockets are the
> equivalent of my little 3.5mm jacks (but with phantom power), and the gain
> knobs are alsamixer sliders.
>
> [...]
>
> And so, by the sounds of the OP's solution post, the only functionality of
> the Behringer being used is the four better quality DACs (rather than my
> two), with four balanced outputs (rather than my two unbalanced ones through
> a 3.5mm jack).
>
> [...]
>
>  Would it help to see what kind of difference there is between a
>  sophisticated card like the Behringer and a run-of-the-mill soundcard, by
>  listing the ALSA Controls with amixer -c 2 scontents as I asked about
>  earlier?


Thanks, David.  What is specifically your audio set, much simpler as you say?
I'm also interested in what you are wondering...  about possibly having the
same functionalities with much a simpler arrangement...

Rodolfo

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#234812 — Re: Multichannel audio playback

On Sat 01 May 2021 at 08:28:44 (+0000), Rodolfo Medina wrote:
> David Wright <deblis@lionunicorn.co.uk> writes:
> 
> > In terms of this computer, all those input and output sockets are the
> > equivalent of my little 3.5mm jacks (but with phantom power), and the gain
> > knobs are alsamixer sliders.
> >
> > [...]
> >
> > And so, by the sounds of the OP's solution post, the only functionality of
> > the Behringer being used is the four better quality DACs (rather than my
> > two), with four balanced outputs (rather than my two unbalanced ones through
> > a 3.5mm jack).
> >
> > [...]
> >
> >  Would it help to see what kind of difference there is between a
> >  sophisticated card like the Behringer and a run-of-the-mill soundcard, by
> >  listing the ALSA Controls with amixer -c 2 scontents as I asked about
> >  earlier?
> 
> 
> What is specifically your audio set, much simpler as you say?

It varies from computer to computer, but in no case is there a
significant external device beyond an adapter, and there are never
more than two channels.

My near-defunct laptop has HDMI output, and I have an HDMI→VGA adaptor
that has 3.5mm output (avoiding its combination one).

The tower mentioned below has DVI and 2xDisplayPort, so I think I can
get at least HMDI out of one of the latter, with an adaptor.

The AiO, which I work on at present, has no video out, but does have a
separate headphone output.

> I'm also interested in what you are wondering...  about possibly having the
> same functionalities with much a simpler arrangement...

https://lists.debian.org/debian-user/2021/03/msg01322.html
explains how I record sound that is being played by one of my
computers, ie capturing the output from its sound mixer using
just settings in the sound card. Most computers can't do that.
Fortunately, I acquired this 2011-built Dell tower to replace
my previous minitower that had this ability but had just died.
I repeat here the sound card control that this depends on:

Simple mixer control 'Input Source',0
  Capabilities: cenum
  Items: 'Mic' 'Line' 'Stereo Mix'
  Item0: 'Stereo Mix'

On past form, I might get five to ten years use out of this Dell,
so I'm always on the lookout for other methods of performing this
enviable and, to some, incredible task. An exterior soundcard
device would have the advantage that it's transferable to other
computers.

So I take an interest in devices like yours, and in what controls
are made available to alsamixer. (AIUI the chips themselves
usually have this capability, and others, but only some functions
are made available in different computers by their mobos.)

Cheers,
David.

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