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How i do upgrade my operating system to Debian “buster”?

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  How i do upgrade my operating system to Debian “buster”? William Torrez Corea <willitc9888@gmail.com> - 2021-01-09 22:30 +0100
    Re: How i do upgrade my operating system to Debian  “buster”? Carl Fink <carl@finknetwork.com> - 2021-01-09 22:50 +0100
      Re: How i do upgrade my operating system to Debian “buster”? deloptes <deloptes@gmail.com> - 2021-01-09 23:50 +0100
        Re: How i do upgrade my operating system to Debian  “buster”? Carl Fink <carl@finknetwork.com> - 2021-01-10 02:00 +0100
          Re: How i do upgrade my operating system to Debian “buster”? John Hasler <jhasler@newsguy.com> - 2021-01-10 02:10 +0100
            Re: How i do upgrade my operating system to Debian “buster”? Peter Ehlert <peter@sdi-baja.com> - 2021-01-10 14:10 +0100
              Re: How i do upgrade my operating system to Debian “buster”? Weaver <weaver@riseup.net> - 2021-01-10 14:30 +0100
                Re: How i do upgrade my operating system to Debian “buster”? "Andrew M.A. Cater" <amacater@einval.com> - 2021-01-10 14:50 +0100
                  Re: How i do upgrade my operating system to Debian “buster”? Joe <joe@jretrading.com> - 2021-01-10 18:00 +0100
                    Re: How i do upgrade my operating system to Debian “buster”? Andrei POPESCU <andreimpopescu@gmail.com> - 2021-01-10 20:40 +0100
                      Re: How i do upgrade my operating system to Debian “buster”? Joe <joe@jretrading.com> - 2021-01-10 21:20 +0100
                Re: How i do upgrade my operating system to Debian “buster”? Andrei POPESCU <andreimpopescu@gmail.com> - 2021-01-10 17:30 +0100
                  Re: How i do upgrade my operating system to Debian “buster”? Weaver <weaver@riseup.net> - 2021-01-10 21:20 +0100
              Re: How i do upgrade my operating system to Debian “buster”? Andrei POPESCU <andreimpopescu@gmail.com> - 2021-01-10 17:40 +0100
                Re: How i do upgrade my operating system to Debian “buster”? Joe <joe@jretrading.com> - 2021-01-10 18:10 +0100
                  Re: How i do upgrade my operating system to Debian “buster”? Andrei POPESCU <andreimpopescu@gmail.com> - 2021-01-10 21:00 +0100
                    Re: How i do upgrade my operating system to Debian “buster”? Joe <joe@jretrading.com> - 2021-01-10 21:30 +0100
                    Re: How i do upgrade my operating system to Debian  “buster”? Celejar <celejar@gmail.com> - 2021-01-11 16:20 +0100
                Re: How i do upgrade my operating system to Debian “buster”? Felix Miata <mrmazda@earthlink.net> - 2021-01-10 23:10 +0100
              Re: How i do upgrade my operating system to Debian  “buster”? Celejar <celejar@gmail.com> - 2021-01-11 17:20 +0100
          Re: How i do upgrade my operating system to Debian “buster”? Andrei POPESCU <andreimpopescu@gmail.com> - 2021-01-10 11:20 +0100
      Re: How i do upgrade my operating system to Debian “buster”? Carles Pina i Estany <carles@pina.cat> - 2021-01-12 11:40 +0100
    Re: How i do upgrade my operating system to Debian “buster”? Anssi Saari <as@sci.fi> - 2021-01-09 23:00 +0100
    Re: How i do upgrade my operating system to Debian ???buster???? Dan Ritter <dsr@randomstring.org> - 2021-01-10 01:00 +0100
      Re: How i do upgrade my operating system to Debian ???buster???? William Torrez Corea <willitc9888@gmail.com> - 2021-01-11 08:40 +0100
        Re: How i do upgrade my operating system to Debian ???buster???? Andrei POPESCU <andreimpopescu@gmail.com> - 2021-01-11 09:10 +0100
          Re: How i do upgrade my operating system to Debian ???buster???? songbird <songbird@anthive.com> - 2021-01-11 16:40 +0100
        Re: How i do upgrade my operating system to Debian ???buster???? David Wright <deblis@lionunicorn.co.uk> - 2021-01-11 16:20 +0100
          Re: How i do upgrade my operating system to Debian ???buster???? David Wright <deblis@lionunicorn.co.uk> - 2021-01-11 16:40 +0100
    Re: How i do upgrade my operating system to Debian  “buster”? John Darrah <xyllyx@gmail.com> - 2021-01-10 02:30 +0100
    Re: How i do upgrade my operating system to Debian “buster”? David Wright <deblis@lionunicorn.co.uk> - 2021-01-10 04:40 +0100
    Re: How i do upgrade my operating system to Debian “buster”? Andrei POPESCU <andreimpopescu@gmail.com> - 2021-01-10 11:10 +0100

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#230494 — How i do upgrade my operating system to Debian “buster”?

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My version actually is Debian 4.19.146-1 (2020-09-17) x86_64 GNU/Linux.

-- 

With kindest regards, William.

⢀⣴⠾⠻⢶⣦⠀
⣾⠁⢠⠒⠀⣿⡁ Debian - The universal operating system
⢿⡄⠘⠷⠚⠋⠀ https://www.debian.org
⠈⠳⣄⠀⠀⠀⠀

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#230496 — Re: How i do upgrade my operating system to Debian “buster”?

On Sat, 2021-01-09 at 15:25 -0600, William Torrez Corea wrote:
> My version actually is Debian 4.19.146-1 (2020-09-17) x86_64
> GNU/Linux.

The recommendation is to reinstall instead. It's easier and doesn't
take much more time.
-- 
Carl Fink                                    carl@finknetwork.com 
https://reasonablyliterate.com             https://nitpicking.com 
If you want to make a point, somebody will take the point and stab you
with it. 
	-Kenne Estes

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#230502

Carl Fink wrote:

> The recommendation is to reinstall instead. It's easier and doesn't
> take much more time.

Please do not share your personal thoughts as recommendations. I would never
reinstall my system.

The OP is asking specifically for help on upgrade and obviously showing the
kernel version.

https://wiki.debian.org/DebianUpgrade

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#230508 — Re: How i do upgrade my operating system to Debian “buster”?

On Sat, 2021-01-09 at 23:39 +0100, deloptes wrote:
> Carl Fink wrote:
> 
> > The recommendation is to reinstall instead. It's easier and doesn't
> > take much more time.
> 
> Please do not share your personal thoughts as recommendations. I
> would never
> reinstall my system.

Please don't try to read my mind. I'm repeating the recommendation I've
seen on this very list for decades.

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#230509

Carl Fink writes:
> I'm repeating the recommendation I've seen on this very list for
> decades.

It is an incorrect recommendation.  Upgrading works well and is
supported and recommended by Debian.
-- 
John Hasler 
jhasler@newsguy.com
Elmwood, WI USA

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#230526

On 1/9/21 5:04 PM, John Hasler wrote:
> Carl Fink writes:
>> I'm repeating the recommendation I've seen on this very list for
>> decades.
> It is an incorrect recommendation.  Upgrading works well and is
> supported and recommended by Debian.

sometimes, but not always. I prefer Reinstall, it's painless

https://wiki.debian.org/DebianUpgrade

"Performing a release upgrade is not without risk. The upgrade may fail, 
leaving the system in a non-functioning state. USERS SHOULD BACKUP ALL 
DATA before attempting a release upgrade"

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#230527

On 10-01-2021 22:44, Peter Ehlert wrote:
> On 1/9/21 5:04 PM, John Hasler wrote:
>> Carl Fink writes:
>>> I'm repeating the recommendation I've seen on this very list for
>>> decades.
>> It is an incorrect recommendation.  Upgrading works well and is
>> supported and recommended by Debian.
> 
> sometimes, but not always. I prefer Reinstall, it's painless
> 
> https://wiki.debian.org/DebianUpgrade
> 
> "Performing a release upgrade is not without risk. The upgrade may
> fail, leaving the system in a non-functioning state. USERS SHOULD
> BACKUP ALL DATA before attempting a release upgrade"
 
Crossing the road is not without risk.
Reinstalling, is not without risk.
Neither is an upgrade.
In any case, there are protocols to observe and, that done, there's
little to fear.
I haven't had trouble for years.
update
safe-upgrade
Edit /etc/apt/sources.list
update
full-upgrade
And you're home and hosed.

Unless you're running a server, it's a good idea to be running SID, and
then you don't have to worry about it anyway.
Cheers!
Harry.
-- 
`We'll know our disinformation program is complete when
 everything the American public believes is false'.
 -- William Casey, CIA Director (first staff meeting, 1981)

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#230528

On Sun, Jan 10, 2021 at 05:27:26AM -0800, Weaver wrote:
> On 10-01-2021 22:44, Peter Ehlert wrote:
> > On 1/9/21 5:04 PM, John Hasler wrote:
> >> Carl Fink writes:
> >>> I'm repeating the recommendation I've seen on this very list for
> >>> decades.
> >> It is an incorrect recommendation.  Upgrading works well and is
> >> supported and recommended by Debian.
> > 
> > sometimes, but not always. I prefer Reinstall, it's painless
> > 
> > https://wiki.debian.org/DebianUpgrade
> > 
> > "Performing a release upgrade is not without risk. The upgrade may
> > fail, leaving the system in a non-functioning state. USERS SHOULD
> > BACKUP ALL DATA before attempting a release upgrade"
>  
> Crossing the road is not without risk.
> Reinstalling, is not without risk.
> Neither is an upgrade.
> In any case, there are protocols to observe and, that done, there's
> little to fear.
> I haven't had trouble for years.
> update
> safe-upgrade
> Edit /etc/apt/sources.list
> update
> full-upgrade
> And you're home and hosed.
> 
> Unless you're running a server, it's a good idea to be running SID, and
> then you don't have to worry about it anyway.
> Cheers!
> Harry.
> -- 
> `We'll know our disinformation program is complete when
>  everything the American public believes is false'.
>  -- William Casey, CIA Director (first staff meeting, 1981)
> 
I'm sorry, but I'll respectfully disagree with the last suggestion: 
Sid is Debian unstable (and Sid as the Toy Story-derived distribution codename 
is named for the child next door who breaks toys)

The difference between unstable / testing / stable comes down to rate of 
change and consequent instability. 

Sid changes daily - there may be times when significant amounts of packages 
are broken / uninstallable together - especially when there's an upgrade to 
one of the major desktop environments or something in the compilation chain 
which affects all packages (perhaps a change in compiler / OpenSSL settings).

If you are very experienced in Debian breakage / can afford to wait until 
someone uploads fixes / it's a secondary machine that you are not absolutely 
dependent on - fine.

Testing is the next step down towards stable. It still changes daily, but at a 
slower rate. There's no routine security patching. Transitions may still mean 
that large numbers of packages are uninstallable today. One a freeze kicks in and testing is being frozen to become the next stable, 
that's a lot easier.

Stable is pretty much unconditionally stable. There are regular changes for 
security fixes: once in a while a packge may have to be removed from Debian 
entirely because it becomes unsupportable. You can, at your choice, follow 
from stable to oldstable to oldoldstable as the distribution moves through various LTS stages. LTS is supported by volunteers and (potentially) paid 
for support from Freexian.

Stable is a good choice day to day, it's regularly updated with security fixes. 
Point releases occur every three months or so wrapping up fixes in the last 
quarter.

Routinely recommending sid may be counterproductive for relatively 
inexperienced users. Similarly, you may have to fix problems if you routinely
use large quantities of -backports software. Stability vs pace and brand new 
software is a neverending battle

Just my opinion - as ever, your experience may well vary.

All the very best, as ever,

Andy C

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#230535

On Sun, 10 Jan 2021 13:46:53 +0000
"Andrew M.A. Cater" <amacater@einval.com> wrote:

> On Sun, Jan 10, 2021 at 05:27:26AM -0800, Weaver wrote:
> > On 10-01-2021 22:44, Peter Ehlert wrote:  
> > > On 1/9/21 5:04 PM, John Hasler wrote:  
> > >> Carl Fink writes:  
> > >>> I'm repeating the recommendation I've seen on this very list for
> > >>> decades.  
> > >> It is an incorrect recommendation.  Upgrading works well and is
> > >> supported and recommended by Debian.  
> > > 
> > > sometimes, but not always. I prefer Reinstall, it's painless
> > > 
> > > https://wiki.debian.org/DebianUpgrade
> > > 
> > > "Performing a release upgrade is not without risk. The upgrade may
> > > fail, leaving the system in a non-functioning state. USERS SHOULD
> > > BACKUP ALL DATA before attempting a release upgrade"  
> >  
> > Crossing the road is not without risk.
> > Reinstalling, is not without risk.
> > Neither is an upgrade.
> > In any case, there are protocols to observe and, that done, there's
> > little to fear.
> > I haven't had trouble for years.
> > update
> > safe-upgrade
> > Edit /etc/apt/sources.list
> > update
> > full-upgrade
> > And you're home and hosed.
> > 
> > Unless you're running a server, it's a good idea to be running SID,
> > and then you don't have to worry about it anyway.
> >   
> I'm sorry, but I'll respectfully disagree with the last suggestion: 
> Sid is Debian unstable (and Sid as the Toy Story-derived distribution
> codename is named for the child next door who breaks toys)
> 
> The difference between unstable / testing / stable comes down to rate
> of change and consequent instability. 
> 
> Sid changes daily - there may be times when significant amounts of
> packages are broken / uninstallable together - especially when
> there's an upgrade to one of the major desktop environments or
> something in the compilation chain which affects all packages
> (perhaps a change in compiler / OpenSSL settings).
> 
> If you are very experienced in Debian breakage / can afford to wait
> until someone uploads fixes / it's a secondary machine that you are
> not absolutely dependent on - fine.
> 
> Testing is the next step down towards stable. It still changes daily,
> but at a slower rate. There's no routine security patching.
> Transitions may still mean that large numbers of packages are
> uninstallable today. One a freeze kicks in and testing is being
> frozen to become the next stable, that's a lot easier.
> 
> Stable is pretty much unconditionally stable. There are regular
> changes for security fixes: once in a while a packge may have to be
> removed from Debian entirely because it becomes unsupportable. You
> can, at your choice, follow from stable to oldstable to oldoldstable
> as the distribution moves through various LTS stages. LTS is
> supported by volunteers and (potentially) paid for support from
> Freexian.
> 
> Stable is a good choice day to day, it's regularly updated with
> security fixes. Point releases occur every three months or so
> wrapping up fixes in the last quarter.
> 
> Routinely recommending sid may be counterproductive for relatively 
> inexperienced users. Similarly, you may have to fix problems if you
> routinely use large quantities of -backports software. Stability vs
> pace and brand new software is a neverending battle
> 
> Just my opinion - as ever, your experience may well vary.
> 

I'd agree. I'm in the process of rebuilding my sid workstation on
another drive in the same machine. The installation is only about six
years old, but it's slowly dying of software rot. There are something
like 60 broken, un-upgradeable packages, including apt, and some of
them have been that way for months. They are clearly not just waiting
for the rest of a suite, or a bug-fix. A few formerly working programs
are now not working. Nobody else seems to be complaining, so I've
decided it's my system and it's time to clean it up. Yes, if it was
just one or two packages, I'd fix them, but it isn't.

I thought of the --get-selections route, but decided against it. There
may be a few specific packages responsible for the problems. Certainly
an exact clone is exactly what I don't want. So I'm spending a lot of
time with apt, taking the opportunity to change a few packages, lose
some of those I suspect I never use, and re-learning how to configure
the larger packages. 

Did you know it is possible to get the latest Firefox into a state
where it will not run, even after reinstalling? 'Replace/delete the
profile', say the gurus, and all will be well. 'Run the Profile
Manager'. The Profile Manager will not run because it can't find a
profile. How stupid is that, when it is the means of creating a new
profile? The fix was to copy the profile from the old installation,
which I'm trying to avoid doing because some of the problems I'm having
may well be due to damaged profiles or configurations. I want a shiny
new sid, not something containing rusty bits of the old one.

No, reinstall is not painless. Unless you have a perfectly-working
system to start with and you use one of the copying methods. If that is
so, why would you want to reinstall? And the time is coming to replace
my stretch server with buster. Having rendered a netbook unbootable by
means of the upgrade, I'm not doing that to my server...

-- 
Joe

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#230540

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On Du, 10 ian 21, 16:58:57, Joe wrote:
> 
> I thought of the --get-selections route, but decided against it. There
> may be a few specific packages responsible for the problems. Certainly
> an exact clone is exactly what I don't want. So I'm spending a lot of
> time with apt, taking the opportunity to change a few packages, lose
> some of those I suspect I never use, and re-learning how to configure
> the larger packages. 

In case you have popularity-contest installed try 
'popcon-largest-unused' (relies on atime).
 
> Did you know it is possible to get the latest Firefox into a state
> where it will not run, even after reinstalling? 'Replace/delete the
> profile', say the gurus, and all will be well. 'Run the Profile
> Manager'. The Profile Manager will not run because it can't find a
> profile. How stupid is that, when it is the means of creating a new
> profile? The fix was to copy the profile from the old installation,
> which I'm trying to avoid doing because some of the problems I'm having
> may well be due to damaged profiles or configurations. I want a shiny
> new sid, not something containing rusty bits of the old one.

BTW, if I recall correctly the daily mini.iso in expert mode can be used 
to install sid directly. This is documented somewhere, so search engines 
should find it.

Kind regards,
Andrei
-- 
http://wiki.debian.org/FAQsFromDebianUser

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#230543

On Sun, 10 Jan 2021 21:39:29 +0200
Andrei POPESCU <andreimpopescu@gmail.com> wrote:

> On Du, 10 ian 21, 16:58:57, Joe wrote:
> > 
> > I thought of the --get-selections route, but decided against it.
> > There may be a few specific packages responsible for the problems.
> > Certainly an exact clone is exactly what I don't want. So I'm
> > spending a lot of time with apt, taking the opportunity to change a
> > few packages, lose some of those I suspect I never use, and
> > re-learning how to configure the larger packages.   
> 
> In case you have popularity-contest installed try 
> 'popcon-largest-unused' (relies on atime).
>  
> > Did you know it is possible to get the latest Firefox into a state
> > where it will not run, even after reinstalling? 'Replace/delete the
> > profile', say the gurus, and all will be well. 'Run the Profile
> > Manager'. The Profile Manager will not run because it can't find a
> > profile. How stupid is that, when it is the means of creating a new
> > profile? The fix was to copy the profile from the old installation,
> > which I'm trying to avoid doing because some of the problems I'm
> > having may well be due to damaged profiles or configurations. I
> > want a shiny new sid, not something containing rusty bits of the
> > old one.  
> 
> BTW, if I recall correctly the daily mini.iso in expert mode can be
> used to install sid directly. This is documented somewhere, so search
> engines should find it.
> 
>
I had no trouble installing sid, though I did it my usual way of
installing a minimal stable, then upgrading, then piling on the
software. Upgrading from stable to unstable has always worked for me if
there is pretty much only the base system installed. The Firefox problem
wasn't difficult to solve, but solving it shouldn't have been
necessary. Start a new Firefox installation without a profile, and it
will make a new one, or at least it always has, but not this time.

I was making the point that reinstallation of a bare operating system
is simple and quick, but rebuilding a machine with a lot of installed
software is neither simple nor quick. My old workstation currently has
over 4000 packages installed. Most of those are automatically
installed, and I could probably lose 1000 by leaving out applications I
don't use and their dependencies. It's still a couple of days' work to
install and configure the rest. A few have configuration files
scattered around the filesystem, like the many php.ini files. There are
a few sillinesses, such as apache2 having a php module in which
execution of .php files is explicitly disabled. Back to Google...

If I was changing operating systems, upgrading would have been the way
to go. But I was reinstalling the same version to clear out the cruft of
many years, the old installation was a six-year-old --get-selections
copy of the previous one, which would itself have been five to ten
years old. Also, hopefully, clearing out whatever combination of damaged
packages was causing the upgrade logjam. Certainly I have already
installed the latest versions of at least two packages stuck in the
logjam, so it should be worth the effort. There was something nasty in
guile, and I have reinstalled packages that depend on guile with no
problem.

-- 
Joe

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#230533

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On Du, 10 ian 21, 05:27:26, Weaver wrote:
> 
> Unless you're running a server, it's a good idea to be running SID, and
> then you don't have to worry about it anyway.

Been there, done that. One can learn a lot, especially from the troubles 
(which I got into literally days after the first time I upgraded to sid; 
the story is in the d-u archives) ;)

It takes *lots* of time to maintain.

Eventually I stayed with stable, because it just works with minimal 
maintenance.

Kind regards,
Andrei
-- 
http://wiki.debian.org/FAQsFromDebianUser

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#230542

On 11-01-2021 02:28, Andrei POPESCU wrote:
> On Du, 10 ian 21, 05:27:26, Weaver wrote:
>>
>> Unless you're running a server, it's a good idea to be running SID, and
>> then you don't have to worry about it anyway.
> 
> Been there, done that. One can learn a lot, especially from the troubles 
> (which I got into literally days after the first time I upgraded to sid; 
> the story is in the d-u archives) ;)
> 
> It takes *lots* of time to maintain.
> 
> Eventually I stayed with stable, because it just works with minimal 
> maintenance.

I rarely have a problem, and even when I do, time alone solves it,
because the fix is already on the way.
I've been running a small business on SID for years now.
If it wasn't reliable and consistent enough, I would have changed an
equal number of years ago.
Agreed, Stable is the only alternative, because the fixes simply don't
arrive in Testing fast enough, but I've never had to wait  with SID.
I've been using that since Libranet died.
Any real problems stemmed from me, and my handling of the situation, so
the fix was at hand.
But I've never found myself spending more time fixing than was worth it.
Cheers!

Harry

-- 
`We'll know our disinformation program is complete when
 everything the American public believes is false'.
 -- William Casey, CIA Director (first staff meeting, 1981)

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#230534

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On Du, 10 ian 21, 04:44:03, Peter Ehlert wrote:
> 
> On 1/9/21 5:04 PM, John Hasler wrote:
> > Carl Fink writes:
> > > I'm repeating the recommendation I've seen on this very list for
> > > decades.
> > It is an incorrect recommendation.  Upgrading works well and is
> > supported and recommended by Debian.
> 
> sometimes, but not always. I prefer Reinstall, it's painless

The install? Sure.

Migrating all your configurations to the new system? Less so.

Kind regards,
Andrei
-- 
http://wiki.debian.org/FAQsFromDebianUser

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#230536

On Sun, 10 Jan 2021 18:31:12 +0200
Andrei POPESCU <andreimpopescu@gmail.com> wrote:

> On Du, 10 ian 21, 04:44:03, Peter Ehlert wrote:
> > 
> > On 1/9/21 5:04 PM, John Hasler wrote:  
> > > Carl Fink writes:  
> > > > I'm repeating the recommendation I've seen on this very list for
> > > > decades.  
> > > It is an incorrect recommendation.  Upgrading works well and is
> > > supported and recommended by Debian.  
> > 
> > sometimes, but not always. I prefer Reinstall, it's painless  
> 
> The install? Sure.
> 
> Migrating all your configurations to the new system? Less so.
> 

Not just the configurations. Installing a couple of thousand packages
will take some time, if you are unwilling to use a cloning method.

-- 
Joe

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#230541

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On Du, 10 ian 21, 17:05:09, Joe wrote:
> On Sun, 10 Jan 2021 18:31:12 +0200
> Andrei POPESCU <andreimpopescu@gmail.com> wrote:
> 
> > On Du, 10 ian 21, 04:44:03, Peter Ehlert wrote:
> > > 
> > > On 1/9/21 5:04 PM, John Hasler wrote:  
> > > > Carl Fink writes:  
> > > > > I'm repeating the recommendation I've seen on this very list for
> > > > > decades.  
> > > > It is an incorrect recommendation.  Upgrading works well and is
> > > > supported and recommended by Debian.  
> > > 
> > > sometimes, but not always. I prefer Reinstall, it's painless  
> > 
> > The install? Sure.
> > 
> > Migrating all your configurations to the new system? Less so.
> > 
> 
> Not just the configurations. Installing a couple of thousand packages
> will take some time, if you are unwilling to use a cloning method.

With a few notable exceptions for me it's mostly enough to replicate 
only the set of manually installed packages.

Of course, on such occasions I do use the opportunity to review what 
packages I still need, which usually takes more time than the actual 
installation :D

Eventually I intend to have that information in a configuration 
management system (e.g. ansible), so that getting a new system installed 
and fully configured is mostly automated.

Kind regards,
Andrei
-- 
http://wiki.debian.org/FAQsFromDebianUser

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#230544

On Sun, 10 Jan 2021 21:54:41 +0200
Andrei POPESCU <andreimpopescu@gmail.com> wrote:

> On Du, 10 ian 21, 17:05:09, Joe wrote:
> > On Sun, 10 Jan 2021 18:31:12 +0200
> > Andrei POPESCU <andreimpopescu@gmail.com> wrote:
> >   
> > > On Du, 10 ian 21, 04:44:03, Peter Ehlert wrote:  
> > > > 
> > > > On 1/9/21 5:04 PM, John Hasler wrote:    
> > > > > Carl Fink writes:    
> > > > > > I'm repeating the recommendation I've seen on this very
> > > > > > list for decades.    
> > > > > It is an incorrect recommendation.  Upgrading works well and
> > > > > is supported and recommended by Debian.    
> > > > 
> > > > sometimes, but not always. I prefer Reinstall, it's painless    
> > > 
> > > The install? Sure.
> > > 
> > > Migrating all your configurations to the new system? Less so.
> > >   
> > 
> > Not just the configurations. Installing a couple of thousand
> > packages will take some time, if you are unwilling to use a cloning
> > method.  
> 
> With a few notable exceptions for me it's mostly enough to replicate 
> only the set of manually installed packages.
> 
> Of course, on such occasions I do use the opportunity to review what 
> packages I still need, which usually takes more time than the actual 
> installation :D

Indeed. I'm using the cacheing method of installing what I think I
need, with the expectation of installing much more as actually required
in the future. In Debian, it's fairly trivial to install a necessary
package without holding up work for long.
> 
> Eventually I intend to have that information in a configuration 
> management system (e.g. ansible), so that getting a new system
> installed and fully configured is mostly automated.

This is the second time I've installed this instance of sid, the only
one that I currently use, in more than ten years. I don't feel it
justifies too much effort to make the process quicker.

-- 
Joe

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#230567 — Re: How i do upgrade my operating system to Debian “buster”?

On Sun, 10 Jan 2021 21:54:41 +0200
Andrei POPESCU <andreimpopescu@gmail.com> wrote:

> On Du, 10 ian 21, 17:05:09, Joe wrote:
> > On Sun, 10 Jan 2021 18:31:12 +0200
> > Andrei POPESCU <andreimpopescu@gmail.com> wrote:
> > 
> > > On Du, 10 ian 21, 04:44:03, Peter Ehlert wrote:
> > > > 
> > > > On 1/9/21 5:04 PM, John Hasler wrote:  
> > > > > Carl Fink writes:  
> > > > > > I'm repeating the recommendation I've seen on this very list for
> > > > > > decades.  
> > > > > It is an incorrect recommendation.  Upgrading works well and is
> > > > > supported and recommended by Debian.  
> > > > 
> > > > sometimes, but not always. I prefer Reinstall, it's painless  
> > > 
> > > The install? Sure.
> > > 
> > > Migrating all your configurations to the new system? Less so.
> > > 
> > 
> > Not just the configurations. Installing a couple of thousand packages
> > will take some time, if you are unwilling to use a cloning method.
> 
> With a few notable exceptions for me it's mostly enough to replicate 
> only the set of manually installed packages.
> 
> Of course, on such occasions I do use the opportunity to review what 
> packages I still need, which usually takes more time than the actual 
> installation :D
> 
> Eventually I intend to have that information in a configuration 
> management system (e.g. ansible), so that getting a new system installed 
> and fully configured is mostly automated.

I've been procrastinating replacing my main machine's drive (laptop
SSD), which I've really outgrown, with a larger one for a while
already. The new drive is just sitting there, but I can't decide
whether to go with a new install, and spend the time getting rid of
stuff I really don't need (which will take more time than the actual
install, as you say) and migrate configuration, or to just do what Felix
suggests in another method in this thread and just clone partitions.

Celejar

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#230545

Andrei POPESCU composed on 2021-01-10 18:31 (UTC+0200):

> Peter Ehlert wrote:

>> John Hasler wrote:

>>> ...Upgrading works well and is
>>> supported and recommended by Debian.

>> sometimes, but not always. I prefer Reinstall, it's painless

> The install? Sure.

> Migrating all your configurations to the new system? Less so.

So much less so that I'm often using a partition image taken from another
installation instead of running the installer. The vast majority of my Testings
are upgrades from Stable, which evolved from Testing, which evolved from Stable....
-- 
Evolution as taught in public schools, like religion,
	is based on faith, not on science.

 Team OS/2 ** Reg. Linux User #211409 ** a11y rocks!

Felix Miata  ***  http://fm.no-ip.com/

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#230575 — Re: How i do upgrade my operating system to Debian “buster”?

On Sun, 10 Jan 2021 04:44:03 -0800
Peter Ehlert <peter@sdi-baja.com> wrote:

> 
> On 1/9/21 5:04 PM, John Hasler wrote:
> > Carl Fink writes:
> >> I'm repeating the recommendation I've seen on this very list for
> >> decades.
> > It is an incorrect recommendation.  Upgrading works well and is
> > supported and recommended by Debian.
> 
> sometimes, but not always. I prefer Reinstall, it's painless
> 
> https://wiki.debian.org/DebianUpgrade
> 
> "Performing a release upgrade is not without risk. The upgrade may fail, 
> leaving the system in a non-functioning state. USERS SHOULD BACKUP ALL 
> DATA before attempting a release upgrade"

And you certainly SHOULD BACKUP ALL DATA before reinstalling, unless
the data is on a different disk than you're installing to, I suppose,
but in that case, I assume that you don't need to backup when
upgrading, either. (Of course, you should always be backing up
everything you care about, whatever you're doing.)

Celejar

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