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Tiling display support

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  Tiling display support George Shuklin <george.shuklin@gmail.com> - 2020-12-18 20:50 +0100
    Re: Tiling display support Dan Ritter <dsr@randomstring.org> - 2020-12-18 21:00 +0100
      Re: Tiling display support deloptes <deloptes@gmail.com> - 2020-12-19 00:00 +0100
        Re: Tiling display support Steven Mainor <steve@degga.net> - 2020-12-19 05:40 +0100
        Re: Tiling display support Joe <joe@jretrading.com> - 2020-12-19 10:00 +0100
          Re: Tiling display support Steven Mainor <steve@degga.net> - 2020-12-19 11:40 +0100
      Re: Tiling display support George Shuklin <george.shuklin@gmail.com> - 2020-12-19 21:30 +0100
        Re: Tiling display support Dan Ritter <dsr@randomstring.org> - 2020-12-19 23:50 +0100
          Re: Tiling display support George Shuklin <george.shuklin@gmail.com> - 2020-12-22 14:10 +0100
            Re: Tiling display support Dan Ritter <dsr@randomstring.org> - 2020-12-22 15:30 +0100
        Re: Tiling display support Mark Allums <maa@allums.com> - 2020-12-20 08:50 +0100
          Re: Tiling display support Steven Mainor <steve@degga.net> - 2020-12-20 10:20 +0100

#229824 — Tiling display support

Hello.

I continue to choose hardware carefully, and the next issue (I found a 
lot on it) is support for tiling displays. They uses multiple streams 
inside DisplayPort to achieve high resolution with high frame rate. It's 
called MST (vs classic single SST), and I found few people complaining 
about issues with it. All those complains are relatively old (2+ years).

Does someone run desktop with 4k screen and high frame rate (150 fps+)? 
What monitor and gpu are you using? Are you having any issues?

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#229825

George Shuklin wrote: 
> I continue to choose hardware carefully, and the next issue (I found a lot
> on it) is support for tiling displays. They uses multiple streams inside
> DisplayPort to achieve high resolution with high frame rate. It's called MST
> (vs classic single SST), and I found few people complaining about issues
> with it. All those complains are relatively old (2+ years).
> 
> Does someone run desktop with 4k screen and high frame rate (150 fps+)? What
> monitor and gpu are you using? Are you having any issues?


There are no 4K 150Hz monitors currently commercially available.

There are some 4K 120Hz monitors, starting at $800 or so.

What is your use case?

-dsr-

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#229829

Dan Ritter wrote:

>> Does someone run desktop with 4k screen and high frame rate (150 fps+)?
>> What monitor and gpu are you using? Are you having any issues?
> 
> 
> There are no 4K 150Hz monitors currently commercially available.

OP is asking about 150+FPS and you are talking about 150Hz. I am not
convinced it is the same 

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#229831

[Multipart message — attachments visible in raw view] — view raw

150hz and 150FPS are basically the same thing. The refresh rate of a 
monitor is usually monitored in hz. Which is just how many times per 
second the display refreshes refreshes. FPS is usually used to measure 
how many frames per second a video card can render. So while they may 
not be exactly the same they are very related.

You would need a 150hz display to take full advantage of a video game 
being rendered at 150FPS, for example.


---
Steven Mainor

On 2020-12-18 17:55, deloptes wrote:
> Dan Ritter wrote:
> 
>>> Does someone run desktop with 4k screen and high frame rate (150 
>>> fps+)?
>>> What monitor and gpu are you using? Are you having any issues?
>> 
>> 
>> There are no 4K 150Hz monitors currently commercially available.
> 
> OP is asking about 150+FPS and you are talking about 150Hz. I am not
> convinced it is the same

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#229833

On Fri, 18 Dec 2020 23:55:09 +0100
deloptes <deloptes@gmail.com> wrote:

> Dan Ritter wrote:
> 
> >> Does someone run desktop with 4k screen and high frame rate (150
> >> fps+)? What monitor and gpu are you using? Are you having any
> >> issues?  
> > 
> > 
> > There are no 4K 150Hz monitors currently commercially available.  
> 
> OP is asking about 150+FPS and you are talking about 150Hz. I am not
> convinced it is the same 
> 

It is if interlace is not used, not if interlace is used.

For broadcast television, there is never enough bandwidth, so interlace
is used which halves the required bandwidth for very little visual
degradation. With a stationary picture such as a computer display,
interlace is not used, as it makes a stationary picture appear to
jitter vertically.

So interlaced 1080i at 50 or 60Hz has a frame rate of 25 or 30 FPS,
while progressive 1080p at 50 or 60Hz has a frame rate of 50 or 60 FPS.

-- 
Joe

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#229837

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On 2020-12-19 03:52, Joe wrote:
> On Fri, 18 Dec 2020 23:55:09 +0100
> deloptes <deloptes@gmail.com> wrote:
> 
>> Dan Ritter wrote:
>> 
>> >> Does someone run desktop with 4k screen and high frame rate (150
>> >> fps+)? What monitor and gpu are you using? Are you having any
>> >> issues?
>> >
>> >
>> > There are no 4K 150Hz monitors currently commercially available.
>> 
>> OP is asking about 150+FPS and you are talking about 150Hz. I am not
>> convinced it is the same
>> 
> 
> It is if interlace is not used, not if interlace is used.
> 
> For broadcast television, there is never enough bandwidth, so interlace
> is used which halves the required bandwidth for very little visual
> degradation. With a stationary picture such as a computer display,
> interlace is not used, as it makes a stationary picture appear to
> jitter vertically.
> 
> So interlaced 1080i at 50 or 60Hz has a frame rate of 25 or 30 FPS,
> while progressive 1080p at 50 or 60Hz has a frame rate of 50 or 60 FPS.

I'm not sure I understand. Why are we talking about interlaced video? 
That doesn't seem to be relevant unless I'm missing something.

There are plenty of 4k 120Hz and 144Hz monitors on the market right now.

I am currently only running dual 60Hz 4K monitors right now with an AMD 
RX580 GPU each connected via Display Port 1.2

I believe a single Displayport (version 1.3) can support 4K 120 or 
144Hz.

There may be some useful information at this link
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DisplayPort#Resolution_and_refresh_frequency_limits

I regret that I don't know anything about MST or SST. Hopefully someone 
can help you more. I'm interested to learn what you figure out.


---
Steven Mainor

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#229851

On 12/18/20 9:55 PM, Dan Ritter wrote:
> George Shuklin wrote:
>> I continue to choose hardware carefully, and the next issue (I found a lot
>> on it) is support for tiling displays. They uses multiple streams inside
>> DisplayPort to achieve high resolution with high frame rate. It's called MST
>> (vs classic single SST), and I found few people complaining about issues
>> with it. All those complains are relatively old (2+ years).
>>
>> Does someone run desktop with 4k screen and high frame rate (150 fps+)? What
>> monitor and gpu are you using? Are you having any issues?
>
> There are no 4K 150Hz monitors currently commercially available.
>
> There are some 4K 120Hz monitors, starting at $800 or so.
>
> What is your use case?
>
> -dsr-

Oh, thanks, I've reread specs. It says 'refresh rate up to 240Hz', but 
for full resolution it's 5120 x 1440 | 60 Hz. There is LG, which 
promises 3840 x 2160 144Hz. I'll be more careful.

Anyway, my concern is MST support in Linux. Or, can 4k 120Hz fit through 
a single DP (SST mode)?

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#229856

George Shuklin wrote: 
> On 12/18/20 9:55 PM, Dan Ritter wrote:
> > George Shuklin wrote:
> > > I continue to choose hardware carefully, and the next issue (I found a lot
> > > on it) is support for tiling displays. They uses multiple streams inside
> > > DisplayPort to achieve high resolution with high frame rate. It's called MST
> > > (vs classic single SST), and I found few people complaining about issues
> > > with it. All those complains are relatively old (2+ years).
> > > 
> > > Does someone run desktop with 4k screen and high frame rate (150 fps+)? What
> > > monitor and gpu are you using? Are you having any issues?
> > 
> > There are no 4K 150Hz monitors currently commercially available.
> > 
> > There are some 4K 120Hz monitors, starting at $800 or so.
> > 
> > What is your use case?
> > 
> > -dsr-
> 
> Oh, thanks, I've reread specs. It says 'refresh rate up to 240Hz', but for
> full resolution it's 5120 x 1440 | 60 Hz. There is LG, which promises 3840 x
> 2160 144Hz. I'll be more careful.
> 
> Anyway, my concern is MST support in Linux. Or, can 4k 120Hz fit through a
> single DP (SST mode)?


The Radeon 6900XT has DisplayPort 1.4.

The NVidia 2080GTX has DisplayPort 1.4.

DP 1.4 supports 4K at 120Hz.

DP 2.0 has not yet shown up.

What are you trying to do?

-dsr-

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#229913

On 20/12/2020 00:42, Dan Ritter wrote:
> George Shuklin wrote:
>> On 12/18/20 9:55 PM, Dan Ritter wrote:
>>> George Shuklin wrote:
>>>> I continue to choose hardware carefully, and the next issue (I found a lot
>>>> on it) is support for tiling displays. They uses multiple streams inside
>>>> DisplayPort to achieve high resolution with high frame rate. It's called MST
>>>> (vs classic single SST), and I found few people complaining about issues
>>>> with it. All those complains are relatively old (2+ years).
>>>>
>>>> Does someone run desktop with 4k screen and high frame rate (150 fps+)? What
>>>> monitor and gpu are you using? Are you having any issues?
>>> There are no 4K 150Hz monitors currently commercially available.
>>>
>>> There are some 4K 120Hz monitors, starting at $800 or so.
>>>
>>> What is your use case?
>>>
>>> -dsr-
>> Oh, thanks, I've reread specs. It says 'refresh rate up to 240Hz', but for
>> full resolution it's 5120 x 1440 | 60 Hz. There is LG, which promises 3840 x
>> 2160 144Hz. I'll be more careful.
>>
>> Anyway, my concern is MST support in Linux. Or, can 4k 120Hz fit through a
>> single DP (SST mode)?
>
> The Radeon 6900XT has DisplayPort 1.4.
>
> The NVidia 2080GTX has DisplayPort 1.4.
>
> DP 1.4 supports 4K at 120Hz.
>
> DP 2.0 has not yet shown up.
>
> What are you trying to do?
>
I had made a mistake assuming the monitor I'd chosen supported 4k at 
240Hz (it was announced as 4k and 240Hz). After answers from the 
maillist I've rechecked specs and found it's only 60Hz at full res, and 
240Hz is there for lower resolutions. So, that thing is dead. There is 
no 4k @ 240Hz.

The next issue is notice from Nvidia site about my video cart saying 
that it supports tiling displays only through direct double DP link (two 
cables with no hub of multiplexers). I start to read about tiling 
support in Linux and found tons of pain (which was slightly eased with 
newer posts about --monitor abstraction in xrandr). Instead of absorbing 
all that pain I've asked here if someone is using tiled display under 
Debian.

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#229915

George Shuklin wrote: 
> On 20/12/2020 00:42, Dan Ritter wrote:
> > George Shuklin wrote:
> > > On 12/18/20 9:55 PM, Dan Ritter wrote:
> > > > George Shuklin wrote:
> > > > > I continue to choose hardware carefully, and the next issue (I found a lot
> > > > > on it) is support for tiling displays. They uses multiple streams inside
> > > > > DisplayPort to achieve high resolution with high frame rate. It's called MST
> > > > > (vs classic single SST), and I found few people complaining about issues
> > > > > with it. All those complains are relatively old (2+ years).


> > What are you trying to do?
> > 
> I had made a mistake assuming the monitor I'd chosen supported 4k at 240Hz
> (it was announced as 4k and 240Hz). After answers from the maillist I've
> rechecked specs and found it's only 60Hz at full res, and 240Hz is there for
> lower resolutions. So, that thing is dead. There is no 4k @ 240Hz.
> 
> The next issue is notice from Nvidia site about my video cart saying that it
> supports tiling displays only through direct double DP link (two cables with
> no hub of multiplexers). I start to read about tiling support in Linux and
> found tons of pain (which was slightly eased with newer posts about
> --monitor abstraction in xrandr). Instead of absorbing all that pain I've
> asked here if someone is using tiled display under Debian.

This is the last time I'm going to ask.

What actual problem
do you have
that you are trying to solve?

-dsr-

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#229859

> Oh, thanks, I've reread specs. It says 'refresh rate up to 240Hz', but 
> for full resolution it's 5120 x 1440 | 60 Hz. There is LG, which 
> promises 3840 x 2160 144Hz. I'll be more careful.

Which LG model offers 144 Hz at 3480 x 2160?  Because I am shopping for 
a high-refresh 4k device right now, and I haven't run across any model 
like that from LG.

Mark

(Preferably 32-inch.)

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#229860

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On 2020-12-20 02:37, Mark Allums wrote:
>> Oh, thanks, I've reread specs. It says 'refresh rate up to 240Hz', but 
>> for full resolution it's 5120 x 1440 | 60 Hz. There is LG, which 
>> promises 3840 x 2160 144Hz. I'll be more careful.
> 
> Which LG model offers 144 Hz at 3480 x 2160?  Because I am shopping
> for a high-refresh 4k device right now, and I haven't run across any
> model like that from LG.
> 
> Mark
> 
> (Preferably 32-inch.)

The LG 27GN950-B is 4k, 144Hz but not 32 inch. It also supports FreeSync 
wich works well on linux with the open source AMD drivers. I highly 
recommend FreeSync(adaptive sync).

If you aren't too attached to LG there are other manufacturers that have 
larger screens with the specs you requested.

---
Steven Mainor

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