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i386 debian to 64bit intel

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  i386 debian to 64bit intel Jerry Mellon <jfmellon@netscape.net> - 2020-12-03 23:40 +0100
    Re: i386 debian to 64bit intel basti <mailinglist@unix-solution.de> - 2020-12-04 00:50 +0100
    Re: i386 debian to 64bit intel David <bouncingcats@gmail.com> - 2020-12-04 03:10 +0100
      Re: i386 debian to 64bit intel John Hasler <jhasler@newsguy.com> - 2020-12-04 03:20 +0100
        Re: i386 debian to 64bit intel Andrei POPESCU <andreimpopescu@gmail.com> - 2020-12-04 11:50 +0100
          Re: i386 debian to 64bit intel Steve McIntyre <steve@einval.com> - 2020-12-04 12:30 +0100
            Re: i386 debian to 64bit intel Darac Marjal <mailinglist@darac.org.uk> - 2020-12-04 17:20 +0100
              Re: i386 debian to 64bit intel Andy Smith <andy@strugglers.net> - 2020-12-04 21:10 +0100
              Re: i386 debian to 64bit intel Stefan Monnier <monnier@iro.umontreal.ca> - 2020-12-04 21:40 +0100
              Re: i386 debian to 64bit intel Steve McIntyre <steve@einval.com> - 2020-12-05 02:50 +0100
    Re: i386 debian to 64bit intel David Christensen <dpchrist@holgerdanske.com> - 2020-12-04 04:20 +0100
      Re: i386 debian to 64bit intel Andrei POPESCU <andreimpopescu@gmail.com> - 2020-12-04 11:50 +0100
      Re: i386 debian to 64bit intel Michael Stone <mstone@debian.org> - 2020-12-04 16:00 +0100
    Re: i386 debian to 64bit intel john doe <johndoe65534@mail.com> - 2020-12-04 06:20 +0100
      Re: i386 debian to 64bit intel john doe <johndoe65534@mail.com> - 2020-12-06 09:00 +0100
    Re: i386 debian to 64bit intel Stefan Monnier <monnier@iro.umontreal.ca> - 2020-12-04 16:30 +0100
      Re: i386 debian to 64bit intel Greg Wooledge <wooledg@eeg.ccf.org> - 2020-12-04 17:30 +0100
        Re: i386 debian to 64bit intel Stefan Monnier <monnier@iro.umontreal.ca> - 2020-12-04 18:10 +0100

#229264 — i386 debian to 64bit intel

Hi,
I am new to linux and made the mistake of loading the i386 Debian
release 10 onto my 64bit intel system. I now want to put the 64bit
version for intel on the system. 
Do I have to backup the data I have in my $HOME directory to load after
loading the 64bit version or can I in someway just load the the OS over
the i386 OS and retain the $HOME contents?????

Jerry
jfmellon@netscape.net

I am a user on the lists.
Thanks for your attention to this.

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#229266

Hello,

install 64bit over 32 is a bit tricky.
If you have a separate /home partion you do not need to backup your data
but it is always recommented.

When you have a backup of your data I would recomment to use LVM and
create lv's not to large, they can grow online.

LVM is a more flexeble way to manage your disk space then "classic"
partition layout.

Best Regards

Am 03.12.20 um 23:39 schrieb Jerry Mellon:
> Hi,
> I am new to linux and made the mistake of loading the i386 Debian
> release 10 onto my 64bit intel system. I now want to put the 64bit
> version for intel on the system. 
> Do I have to backup the data I have in my $HOME directory to load after
> loading the 64bit version or can I in someway just load the the OS over
> the i386 OS and retain the $HOME contents?????
> 
> Jerry
> jfmellon@netscape.net
> 
> I am a user on the lists.
> Thanks for your attention to this.
> 

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#229268

On Fri, 4 Dec 2020 at 09:39, Jerry Mellon <jfmellon@netscape.net> wrote:

> Hi,
> I am new to linux and made the mistake of loading the i386 Debian
> release 10 onto my 64bit intel system. I now want to put the 64bit
> version for intel on the system.

> Do I have to backup the data I have in my $HOME directory to load after
> loading the 64bit version or can I in someway just load the the OS over
> the i386 OS and retain the $HOME contents?????

The Debian installer handles each *partition* of available drives individually.
So if you previously allowed everything (system and home) to install into
just one partition of your drive, a consequence is that if running the
installer a second
time, it can't change the system without also overwriting the home directories.
That's one reason why some people use more than one partition, to keep
their unique data separate from the installable system.

You haven't told us any details of what data storage devices you have
available or how they are configured so it's hard to offer any more advice
without that. For example, if you have unallocated free space on your drive
then you could create a second partition and install into that, or move your
data there. It's quite useful to get comfortable with these operations.

One thing that really reduces the stress of this kind of situation is to
not have "all eggs in one basket". For example, for the price of a second
hard drive and an external USB caddy, you gain a lot of flexibility
and the ability
to do experiments with less risk. Especially if your second hard drive is
physically compatible with your main drive and easily swappable.
Drives are so cheap that this is standard procedure here. It gets addictive,
my main machine now has 3x 3.5" SATA caddies as well as its internal drives,
very flexible for drive cloning and shadowing and similar.

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#229270

Jerry Mellon wrote:
> I am new to linux and made the mistake of loading the i386 Debian
> release 10 onto my 64bit intel system. I now want to put the 64bit
> version for intel on the system.

> Do I have to backup the data I have in my $HOME directory to load after
> loading the 64bit version...

Since you are new to Linux, yes.  There are other solutions but they are
too complicated for you at this point.
-- 
John Hasler 
jhasler@newsguy.com
Elmwood, WI USA

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#229292

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On Jo, 03 dec 20, 20:17:25, John Hasler wrote:
> Jerry Mellon wrote:
> > I am new to linux and made the mistake of loading the i386 Debian
> > release 10 onto my 64bit intel system. I now want to put the 64bit
> > version for intel on the system.
> 
> > Do I have to backup the data I have in my $HOME directory to load after
> > loading the 64bit version...
> 
> Since you are new to Linux, yes.  There are other solutions but they are
> too complicated for you at this point.

The other solutions are very complicated also for advanced users and 
most likely not worth the trouble.

Reinstalling is probably faster and easier, especially if you already 
have good backups of your data and configs.

There is also little incentive in improving them as the number of i386 
installs that are worth cross-grading is probably quite low and 
decreasing daily.

Kind regards,
Andrei
-- 
http://wiki.debian.org/FAQsFromDebianUser

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#229295

Andrei wrote:
>-=-=-=-=-=-
>
>On Jo, 03 dec 20, 20:17:25, John Hasler wrote:
>> Jerry Mellon wrote:
>> > I am new to linux and made the mistake of loading the i386 Debian
>> > release 10 onto my 64bit intel system. I now want to put the 64bit
>> > version for intel on the system.
>> 
>> > Do I have to backup the data I have in my $HOME directory to load after
>> > loading the 64bit version...
>> 
>> Since you are new to Linux, yes.  There are other solutions but they are
>> too complicated for you at this point.
>
>The other solutions are very complicated also for advanced users and 
>most likely not worth the trouble.
>
>Reinstalling is probably faster and easier, especially if you already 
>have good backups of your data and configs.
>
>There is also little incentive in improving them as the number of i386 
>installs that are worth cross-grading is probably quite low and 
>decreasing daily.

We finally have a cross-grading option in Debian that takes away a lot
of the pain:

  https://tracker.debian.org/pkg/debian-crossgrader

but it's definitely not something I'd recommend for a novice yet...

-- 
Steve McIntyre, Cambridge, UK.                                steve@einval.com
"You can't barbecue lettuce!" -- Ellie Crane

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#229316

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On 04/12/2020 11:25, Steve McIntyre wrote:
> Andrei wrote:
>> -=-=-=-=-=-
>>
>> On Jo, 03 dec 20, 20:17:25, John Hasler wrote:
>>> Jerry Mellon wrote:
>>>> I am new to linux and made the mistake of loading the i386 Debian
>>>> release 10 onto my 64bit intel system. I now want to put the 64bit
>>>> version for intel on the system.
>>>> Do I have to backup the data I have in my $HOME directory to load after
>>>> loading the 64bit version...
>>> Since you are new to Linux, yes.  There are other solutions but they are
>>> too complicated for you at this point.
>> The other solutions are very complicated also for advanced users and 
>> most likely not worth the trouble.
>>
>> Reinstalling is probably faster and easier, especially if you already 
>> have good backups of your data and configs.
>>
>> There is also little incentive in improving them as the number of i386 
>> installs that are worth cross-grading is probably quite low and 
>> decreasing daily.
> We finally have a cross-grading option in Debian that takes away a lot
> of the pain:
>
>   https://tracker.debian.org/pkg/debian-crossgrader
>
> but it's definitely not something I'd recommend for a novice yet...

Wow that's a really nice tool. I am somewhat boggling, though, at the
idea in the Instructions[1] of crossgrading from arm64 to amd64. What
manner of machine can interpret both of those instruction sets?!


[1]
https://salsa.debian.org/crossgrading-team/debian-crossgrading/-/blob/master/INSTRUCTIONS.md#converting-an-arm64-system-to-amd64


-- 

Darac

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#229329

Hello,

On Fri, Dec 04, 2020 at 04:05:18PM +0000, Darac Marjal wrote:
> I am somewhat boggling, though, at the idea in the Instructions[1]
> of crossgrading from arm64 to amd64. What manner of machine can
> interpret both of those instruction sets?!

A virtual machine, hence qemu! :)

Cheers,
Andy

-- 
https://bitfolk.com/ -- No-nonsense VPS hosting

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#229331

> Wow that's a really nice tool. I am somewhat boggling, though, at the
> idea in the Instructions[1] of crossgrading from arm64 to amd64. What
> manner of machine can interpret both of those instruction sets?!

While the idea of cross-grading was mostly developed in the context of
going from i386 to amd64 (as well as a few similar upgrades in other
architecture families), it is also useful when moving a Debian install
from one machine to a machine of a different kind, e.g. from an amd64
machine to an arm64 machine.

So the intention is not to take advantage of those hypothetical machines
that can natively run both arm64 and amd64 binaries, but to let you move
your system for example from an amd64 machine to an arm64 machine
without needing a reinstall.


        Stefan

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#229342

Darac wrote:
>On 04/12/2020 11:25, Steve McIntyre wrote:
>> We finally have a cross-grading option in Debian that takes away a lot
>> of the pain:
>>
>>   https://tracker.debian.org/pkg/debian-crossgrader
>>
>> but it's definitely not something I'd recommend for a novice yet...
>
>Wow that's a really nice tool. I am somewhat boggling, though, at the
>idea in the Instructions[1] of crossgrading from arm64 to amd64. What
>manner of machine can interpret both of those instruction sets?!

None, but that doesn't mean it's not useful. The very installation I'm
typing this on has been cross-graded by hand twice over the years,
going i386->amd64->arm64. It's moved hardware multiple times since I
first set it up back in 1996, and switching architeectures is just
another step! :-)

I'm a highly experienced Debian developer and it still took me a few
false starts and I had to step back and fix mistakes when doing the
crossgrade. But I still found it a useful thing to do, and now I'm
running an arm64 machine at home as my NFS server/firewall/router.

But nonetheless we expect most people to be using the crossgrade tool
to just upgrade older i386 installations to use amd64 now...

-- 
Steve McIntyre, Cambridge, UK.                                steve@einval.com
"You can't barbecue lettuce!" -- Ellie Crane

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#229274

On 12/3/20 2:39 PM, Jerry Mellon wrote:
> Hi,
> I am new to linux and made the mistake of loading the i386 Debian
> release 10 onto my 64bit intel system. I now want to put the 64bit
> version for intel on the system.

Why?


> Do I have to backup the data I have in my $HOME directory 

You should backup any system configuration files you create or modify 
and backup your data regularly (e.g. daily) and before any significant 
system administration task, regardless of what operating system you are 
running.


You should have more than one backup device, and follow some periodic 
duplication and/or rotation procedure.


You should create permanent archives of your data periodically -- e.g. 
burn to optical discs.


> to load after
> loading the 64bit version or can I in someway just load the the OS over
> the i386 OS and retain the $HOME contents?????


Perhaps.


What is the make, model, part number, and component list of your computer?


Do you have any other computers, spare parts, external drives, etc.?  If 
so, what?


Which Debian Installer (d-i) image did you download?


Did you keep a record of the choices you made when you ran the d-i?  If 
so, please post.


Please run the following commands as root and post your complete console 
session -- prompts, commands entered, and output displayed:

# cat /etc/debian_version

# uname -a

# fdisk -l

# cat /etc/fstab

# mount

# df


> Jerry
> jfmellon@netscape.net
> 
> I am a user on the lists.
> Thanks for your attention to this.


David

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#229293

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On Jo, 03 dec 20, 19:13:11, David Christensen wrote:
> On 12/3/20 2:39 PM, Jerry Mellon wrote:
> > Hi,
> > I am new to linux and made the mistake of loading the i386 Debian
> > release 10 onto my 64bit intel system. I now want to put the 64bit
> > version for intel on the system.
> 
> Why?
 
Because the i386 port will go away at some point, possibly already for 
bullseye (Debian 11).

https://release.debian.org/bullseye/arch_qualify.html

Kind regards,
Andrei
-- 
http://wiki.debian.org/FAQsFromDebianUser

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#229310

On Thu, Dec 03, 2020 at 07:13:11PM -0800, David Christensen wrote:
>On 12/3/20 2:39 PM, Jerry Mellon wrote:
>>Hi,
>>I am new to linux and made the mistake of loading the i386 Debian
>>release 10 onto my 64bit intel system. I now want to put the 64bit
>>version for intel on the system.
>
>Why?

Because there are no good reasons to run i386 on a modern system, and a 
lot of reasons why it's a bad idea. I don't think someone asking a 
simple question needs to list them.

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#229277

On 12/3/2020 11:39 PM, Jerry Mellon wrote:
> Hi,
> I am new to linux and made the mistake of loading the i386 Debian
> release 10 onto my 64bit intel system. I now want to put the 64bit
> version for intel on the system.
> Do I have to backup the data I have in my $HOME directory to load after
> loading the 64bit version or can I in someway just load the the OS over
> the i386 OS and retain the $HOME contents?????
>

If you have time to spend or willing to learn something inthe process,
that can be fun to play with it.

In your case, I would do a fresh install of Debian with 'home' as a
separate partition,.

Don't forget to always backup before you do something on your host.

--
John Doe

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#229383

On 12/5/2020 7:32 PM, Jerry Mellon wrote:
> Thanks John.
> I’m not brave enough to try that yet. I will just backup. Do I need to re format or will the install take care of that?
>

No, the Debian installer (d-i) will per default take care of that for you.

Here's what I would suggest:
- Backup what you need as you will loos everything that is on the disk
that will be reinstalled
- Execute the below commands in a terminal to download the proper iso file:

$ mkdir debian-amd64-10.7
$ cd debian-amd64-10.7
$ wget
https://cdimage.debian.org/debian-cd/current/amd64/iso-cd/debian-10.7.0-amd64-netinst.iso
https://cdimage.debian.org/debian-cd/current/amd64/iso-cd/SHA512SUMS.sign https://cdimage.debian.org/debian-cd/current/amd64/iso-cd/SHA512SUMS
|| echo "Something went rong when checksumming."
$ sha512sum -c SHA512SUMS --strict --ignore-missing || echo "Something
went rong while verifying."
$ gpg --keyserver hkps://keyring.debian.org --keyserver-options
auto-key-retrieve --verify *.sign


Note that if you requires non-free firmware during installation you
might want the below URL instead:

https://cdimage.debian.org/cdimage/unofficial/non-free/cd-including-firmware/10.7.0+nonfree/amd64/iso-cd/

If you want non-free firmware you can simply substitute the URLs in the
wget line above.


- If the above commands are successfull
- Install as you have already done but with the correct architecture
- When prompted on how to format the disk select the line that resemble
"Install home directories in a separate partition"


P.S.

Please post through the list so others can chime in when needed or  when
I'm rong! :)

--
John Doe

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#229313

> I am new to linux and made the mistake of loading the i386 Debian
> release 10 onto my 64bit intel system. I now want to put the 64bit
> version for intel on the system. 
> Do I have to backup the data I have in my $HOME directory to load after
> loading the 64bit version or can I in someway just load the the OS over
> the i386 OS and retain the $HOME contents?????

FWIW, I recently needed to run a amd64 binary on my i386 system.
Rather than make a full install I just added the few needed amd64 packages.

I.e. something like

    dpkg --add-architecture amd64
    apt update
    apt install linux-image-amd64 libc6:amd64

You do need to run an amd64 kernel if you want to run amd64 binaries (so
you'll need to reboot after installing the amd64 kernel) but that kernel
will happily run the i386 binaries as well, so you can simply replace
your 686 kernels with the amd64 kernel and keep using your existing
system (and I'd strongly recommend to use an amd64 kernel in any case if
you have more than 4GB of RAM).


        Stefan

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#229318

On Fri, Dec 04, 2020 at 10:25:49AM -0500, Stefan Monnier wrote:
> FWIW, I recently needed to run a amd64 binary on my i386 system.
> Rather than make a full install I just added the few needed amd64 packages.
> 
> I.e. something like
> 
>     dpkg --add-architecture amd64
>     apt update
>     apt install linux-image-amd64 libc6:amd64

A word of warning for anyone else who wishes to try this: while running
an amd64 kernel on an i386 architecture installation is supported by
Debian, it may not be supported by whatever third-party applications
you're running.  Some applications use the kernel's reported architecture
to decide whether they should attempt to run a 64-bit or a 32-bit
version of their programs -- and if the kernel mismatches the Debian
architecture, they may try the wrong one.

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#229319

> A word of warning for anyone else who wishes to try this: while running
> an amd64 kernel on an i386 architecture installation is supported by
> Debian, it may not be supported by whatever third-party applications
> you're running.  Some applications use the kernel's reported architecture
> to decide whether they should attempt to run a 64-bit or a 32-bit
> version of their programs -- and if the kernel mismatches the Debian
> architecture, they may try the wrong one.

Indeed, I've found some such situations.  Not so much for running
applications, but rather when building them (where the configure script
looks at "the architecture" and then assume pointers will be 64bit long).

This said, I've been running such "hybrid" systems for the last 15 years
or so and over the years these problems have largely disappeared (there
were also several other problems where the 64bit kernel wouldn't provide
support for some particular operations to 32bit applications).


        Stefan

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