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Installation instructions.

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  Installation instructions. peter@easthope.ca - 2020-12-02 00:10 +0100
    Re: Installation instructions. David <bouncingcats@gmail.com> - 2020-12-02 03:20 +0100
      Re: Installation instructions. peter@easthope.ca - 2020-12-02 22:00 +0100
        Re: Installation instructions. Brian <ad44@cityscape.co.uk> - 2020-12-02 22:20 +0100
        Re: Installation instructions. David <bouncingcats@gmail.com> - 2020-12-02 23:30 +0100
          Re: Installation instructions. peter@easthope.ca - 2020-12-03 17:40 +0100
            Re: Installation instructions. Brian <ad44@cityscape.co.uk> - 2020-12-03 20:30 +0100
            Re: Installation instructions. David <bouncingcats@gmail.com> - 2020-12-03 21:30 +0100
              Re: Installation instructions. Brian <ad44@cityscape.co.uk> - 2020-12-04 00:10 +0100
                Re: Installation instructions. David <bouncingcats@gmail.com> - 2020-12-04 02:30 +0100
              Re: Installation instructions. David <bouncingcats@gmail.com> - 2020-12-04 10:10 +0100
                Re: Installation instructions. David <bouncingcats@gmail.com> - 2020-12-04 13:00 +0100
                  Re: Installation instructions. David Wright <deblis@lionunicorn.co.uk> - 2020-12-04 22:20 +0100
                    Re: Installation instructions. David <bouncingcats@gmail.com> - 2020-12-04 23:40 +0100
                      Re: Installation instructions. David Wright <deblis@lionunicorn.co.uk> - 2020-12-05 03:20 +0100
                    Re: Installation instructions. peter@easthope.ca - 2020-12-06 16:40 +0100
                      Re: Installation instructions. David Wright <deblis@lionunicorn.co.uk> - 2020-12-10 01:10 +0100
                  Re: Installation instructions. Brian <ad44@cityscape.co.uk> - 2020-12-05 16:00 +0100
                  Re: Installation instructions. Brian <ad44@cityscape.co.uk> - 2020-12-05 20:50 +0100
                    Re: Installation instructions. David <bouncingcats@gmail.com> - 2020-12-05 22:20 +0100
                Re: Installation instructions. peter@easthope.ca - 2020-12-05 21:00 +0100
                  Re: Installation instructions. David <bouncingcats@gmail.com> - 2020-12-05 21:40 +0100
                    Re: Installation instructions. Brian <ad44@cityscape.co.uk> - 2020-12-05 22:00 +0100
                      Re: Installation instructions. David <bouncingcats@gmail.com> - 2020-12-05 22:10 +0100
                        Re: Installation instructions. John Boxall <jboxall47@gmail.com> - 2020-12-05 22:40 +0100
                          Re: Installation instructions. David <bouncingcats@gmail.com> - 2020-12-06 01:20 +0100
                        Re: Installation instructions. Brian <ad44@cityscape.co.uk> - 2020-12-06 01:20 +0100
                          Re: Installation instructions. David <bouncingcats@gmail.com> - 2020-12-06 01:40 +0100
                    Re: Installation instructions. peter@easthope.ca - 2020-12-06 06:10 +0100
                      Re: Installation instructions. Brian <ad44@cityscape.co.uk> - 2020-12-06 19:30 +0100
                  Re: Installation instructions. Brian <ad44@cityscape.co.uk> - 2020-12-05 21:40 +0100
              Re: Installation instructions. peter@easthope.ca - 2020-12-05 22:10 +0100
                Re: Installation instructions. David <bouncingcats@gmail.com> - 2020-12-05 22:20 +0100
        Re: Installation instructions. Andrei POPESCU <andreimpopescu@gmail.com> - 2020-12-03 10:00 +0100
    Re: Installation instructions. Brian <ad44@cityscape.co.uk> - 2020-12-02 20:00 +0100
      Re (2): Installation instructions. peter@easthope.ca - 2020-12-02 22:40 +0100
        Re: Re (2): Installation instructions. Brian <ad44@cityscape.co.uk> - 2020-12-03 00:10 +0100
    Re: Installation instructions. John Boxall <jboxall47@gmail.com> - 2020-12-02 23:00 +0100

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#229363

> I give their md5sums below so you can check we are using the same
> files.

Thanks.  Well, the iso file simply wasn't present.  Now I have this.

root@joule:/mnt# md5sum !$
md5sum {d*,i*,v*}
f327723426dc90a4daaf1609595d8306  debian-10.6.0-i386-netinst.iso
d3f41e1b683fa87cca189f8595b80a7c  initrd.gz
b30966bc534a606bb8dafab40e106ca9  vmlinuz

> $ md5sum *iso
> f327723426dc90a4daaf1609595d8306  debian-10.6.0-i386-netinst.iso
> $ md5sum *
> d3f41e1b683fa87cca189f8595b80a7c  initrd.gz
> b30966bc534a606bb8dafab40e106ca9  vmlinuz

Files match but the search still failed.

> I suggest to check the installer log just after the search fails.
> The method of doing that is here:
> https://www.debian.org/releases/stable/i386/ch06s03.en.html#di-miscellaneous

http://easthope.ca/FailedBootVrtConsole4.jpg

Apologies for the snapshot but it serves the purpose.

To me, the most relevant notes are "missing firmware" and "devices found: ''".
An old magnetic HDD should be detected by a driver without fancy firmware. 

That leaves "devices found: ''" while files are in (hd0,msdos7).  Does 
the search algorithm work for an extended part?  Ref. 
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Disk_partitioning#Extended_partition

Depending on replies, I might try the files in (hd1,1).

Thx,                                 ... P.



-- 
Tel: +1 604 670 0140            Bcc: peter at easthope. ca

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#229364

On Sun, 6 Dec 2020 at 06:57, <peter@easthope.ca> wrote:

> > I give their md5sums below so you can check we are using the same
> > files.
>
> Thanks.  Well, the iso file simply wasn't present.

I don't understand this sentence. Do you mean you made a
human error? Or something else?

> Files match but the search still failed.

Please report the results of a manual search in the installer
as I suggested previously here:

On Fri, 4 Dec 2020 at 22:56, David <bouncingcats@gmail.com> wrote:

> I suggest the use of priority=medium which allows you to
> choose which [*]partitions are searched for the iso, which might help.

See the rest of that message for more details.

Please report what *partitions* you see offered in the menu, and what
happens when you try them, and the logfile after doing all of that.

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#229367

On Sun 06 Dec 2020 at 07:29:37 +1100, David wrote:

> On Sun, 6 Dec 2020 at 06:57, <peter@easthope.ca> wrote:
> 
> > > I give their md5sums below so you can check we are using the same
> > > files.
> >
> > Thanks.  Well, the iso file simply wasn't present.
> 
> I don't understand this sentence. Do you mean you made a
> human error? Or something else?

The OP is using an i386 version. We expect you are on amd64.

That's not the problem, of course.

-- 
Brian.

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#229369

On Sun, 6 Dec 2020 at 07:54, Brian <ad44@cityscape.co.uk> wrote:
> On Sun 06 Dec 2020 at 07:29:37 +1100, David wrote:
> > On Sun, 6 Dec 2020 at 06:57, <peter@easthope.ca> wrote:

> > > > I give their md5sums below so you can check we are using the same
> > > > files.

> > > Thanks.  Well, the iso file simply wasn't present.

> > I don't understand this sentence. Do you mean you made a
> > human error? Or something else?

> The OP is using an i386 version. We expect you are on amd64.

Err sorry, I'm still baffled by what is being said here.

I have both i386 and amd64 machines available to test, and I'm
using i386 when trying to assist Peter.

On Fri, 4 Dec 2020 at 20:00, David <bouncingcats@gmail.com> wrote:

> I give their md5sums below so you can check we are using the same
> files.

> $ md5sum *iso
> f327723426dc90a4daaf1609595d8306  debian-10.6.0-i386-netinst.iso

It's the md5sum of an i386 iso file. What's that got to do with "you are
on amd64"? Sorry if I'm being dense, it's early morning is my excuse
for today :)

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#229374

On 2020-12-05 4:07 p.m., David wrote:
>
> I have both i386 and amd64 machines available to test, and I'm
> using i386 when trying to assist Peter.

David,

In your testing have you been able to cleanly boot and run the installer 
through to completion, whether i386 or amd64? I have some results from a 
buster amd64 VirtualBox guest, but it isn't clean (kernel mismatch), but 
the install does progress. I will be testing on bare metal soon-ish.

-- 
Regards,

John Boxall

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#229378

On Sun, 6 Dec 2020 at 08:35, John Boxall <jboxall47@gmail.com> wrote:
> On 2020-12-05 4:07 p.m., David wrote:

> > I have both i386 and amd64 machines available to test, and I'm
> > using i386 when trying to assist Peter.

> In your testing have you been able to cleanly boot and run the installer
> through to completion, whether i386 or amd64? I have some results from a
> buster amd64 VirtualBox guest, but it isn't clean (kernel mismatch), but
> the install does progress. I will be testing on bare metal soon-ish.

Hi John,

Yes these days stable always works for me on actual hardware i386 and
amd64.

Due to lack of playtime I haven't done much with testing/unstable
releases or the testing versions of debian-installer, but that's where
I'm headed (if I wasn't too busy with too many projects).

With those development suites I guess mismatches between
installer/vmlinuz/initrd might be more likely. But stable should work
unless there are occasional bugs, it can happen when kernels change.

When I first tried this years ago I experienced the same problem as
Peter. Which was irritating, because on old hardware, removable media
installs can be very slow. I like fast installs, so I wanted to find a
better way.

My approach now is to create a very flexible setup on each machine,
disks these days are so huge that there's plenty of space. I use 4
primary partitions with an msdos partition table. Three of them are 12
GB and the fourth is much bigger consuming the rest of the drive using
LUKS and LVM.

The 12GB boot partition is big enough to hold the boot files of many
different installs regardless if outside or inside the LUKS/LVM, plus
however many different installation iso images that I want to play
with.

I do each install without a separate boot, and then move the boot images
to the boot partition and symlink to them. This keeps all the kernels
and initrds and installation ISOs on their own partition. Sometimes
an initrd from one install can be helpful to use to fix another. Another
benefit of this is that the grub of every install can do whatever stupid things
it wants to its grub.cfg without corrupting my actual grub.cfg that
boots the system, which I manage manually and keep simple without all
the overcomplicated default stuff makes the default grub.cfg hard to read.

The other two 12GB primary partitions are just throwaway play spaces
which are sometimes helpful if convincing the installer to install
into LUKS/LVM gets tricky, I can just do it outside and then move it
inside afterward if I want to keep it.

I also use 'approx' on another machine on my LAN as a repo cache which
speeds things up too.

All this gives me the ability to easily test these things on actual
hardware. I'm not claiming my way is "best" just sharing how I do it
and why.

So these days I expect hd-media install to work every time. And when
it doesn't then I'm curious to understand why. So my interest here is
purely academic curiosity to better understand something that I didn't
know how to troubleshoot when it was happening to me years ago. I
haven't tried VM's for a while but if I did I would use kvm not
VirtualBox.

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#229379

On Sun 06 Dec 2020 at 08:07:30 +1100, David wrote:

> On Sun, 6 Dec 2020 at 07:54, Brian <ad44@cityscape.co.uk> wrote:
> > On Sun 06 Dec 2020 at 07:29:37 +1100, David wrote:
> > > On Sun, 6 Dec 2020 at 06:57, <peter@easthope.ca> wrote:
> 
> > > > > I give their md5sums below so you can check we are using the same
> > > > > files.
> 
> > > > Thanks.  Well, the iso file simply wasn't present.
> 
> > > I don't understand this sentence. Do you mean you made a
> > > human error? Or something else?
> 
> > The OP is using an i386 version. We expect you are on amd64.
> 
> Err sorry, I'm still baffled by what is being said here.

It was a data point for those following this thread. I noted the md5sum
of the ISO file: As I said:

  > That's not the problem, of course.

Inconsequential, and probably better left unsaid.

-- 
Brian.

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#229380

On Sun, 6 Dec 2020 at 11:18, Brian <ad44@cityscape.co.uk> wrote:
> On Sun 06 Dec 2020 at 08:07:30 +1100, David wrote:
> > On Sun, 6 Dec 2020 at 07:54, Brian <ad44@cityscape.co.uk> wrote:
> > > On Sun 06 Dec 2020 at 07:29:37 +1100, David wrote:
> > > > On Sun, 6 Dec 2020 at 06:57, <peter@easthope.ca> wrote:

> > > > > > I give their md5sums below so you can check we are using the same
> > > > > > files.

> > > > > Thanks.  Well, the iso file simply wasn't present.

> > > > I don't understand this sentence. Do you mean you made a
> > > > human error? Or something else?

> > > The OP is using an i386 version. We expect you are on amd64.

> > Err sorry, I'm still baffled by what is being said here.

> Inconsequential, and probably better left unsaid.

I hope so :)

I'm not arguing with you, just expressing wry amusement
at the random hints of information being supplied ...

Peter is complaining that he sees
["Failed to find an installer image"]

so if he writes "the iso file simply wasn't present" then that
would explain the complaint, case closed. Perhaps.

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#229381

From: David <bouncingcats@gmail.com>
Date: Fri, 4 Dec 2020 22:56:41 +1100
> 1) grub needs a partition table on the target device so it can do
> embedding, so the target device can't be an entire block device (eg
> sdx) it must be a partition[*] (eg sdxN where N is some natural number)
> 
> 2) And you probably need at least N=2 on an older machine.
> If there is sufficient RAM, the installer offers to load itself
> into RAM which frees up the partition where the iso is, so that it can
> be overwritten by the new install. 

My first step was to plan the partition layout and create it with 
gparted. ROOT, HOME & INSTLLR were formatted ext4.

(hd0,mdos1)  unused
(hd0,mdos2)  unused
(hd0,mdos3)  ROOT  /
(hd0,mdos4)  extended
(hd0,mdos5)  SWAP  swap
(hd0,mdos6)  HOME  /home
(hd0,mdos7)  INSTLLR

(iso, initrd, vmlinuz) are in INSTLLR.  There is no need to overwrite 
INSTLLR during the installation. INSTLLR can be joined onto /home 
later.

    From: David <bouncingcats@gmail.com>
    Date: Sun, 6 Dec 2020 07:29:37 +1100
> > Thanks.  Well, the iso file simply wasn't present.
> 
> I don't understand this sentence. Do you mean you made a
> human error? Or something else?

Yes, my human error.  I omitted putting the iso in the folder before 
the last trial run yesterday.

> I suggest the use of priority=medium which allows you to
> choose which [*]partitions are searched for the iso, which might help.

That definitely helps.

The installer then gives the option to search for USB devices.  It 
gives no evidence of a hdd although it's running from one. (?)  In the 
snapshot of console 4, the last line reports "devices found: ''".  
Meaning "no devices found".
http://easthope.ca/FailedBootVrtConsole4.jpg

Then I put the iso on a SD card in a USB adapter.

The installer finds that iso.  Ie. boot from (iso, initrd, vmlinuz) in 
INSTLLR and let the installer search USB devices.  The iso in a USB 
connected device is found.  

Preliminary conclusion. The installer can be started from (hd0,msdos7) 
but the iso search fails to acknowledge existence of (hd0) and fails 
to find the iso in (hd0,msdos7).

Does the installer search algorithm work in the msdos extension? Not 
always.

Does it ever work on the extension?  Don't know yet. 

Regards,                           ... P.

-- 
Tel: +1 604 670 0140            Bcc: peter at easthope. ca

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#229392

On Sat 05 Dec 2020 at 20:50:44 -0800, peter@easthope.ca wrote:

> The installer then gives the option to search for USB devices.  It 
> gives no evidence of a hdd although it's running from one. (?)  In the 
> snapshot of console 4, the last line reports "devices found: ''".  
> Meaning "no devices found".
> http://easthope.ca/FailedBootVrtConsole4.jpg

Please give what you get in an installer console for

  list-devices disk
  list-devices partition

-- 
Brian.

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#229365

On Sat 05 Dec 2020 at 11:19:17 -0800, peter@easthope.ca wrote:

> http://easthope.ca/FailedBootVrtConsole4.jpg
> 
> Apologies for the snapshot but it serves the purpose.

It doesn't serve any purpose. It is completely useless.

-- 

Brian.

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#229368

From: David <bouncingcats@gmail.com>
Date: Fri, 4 Dec 2020 07:20:19 +1100
> The instructions can be modified ... 

Added DebianInstaller FAQ 29.
https://wiki.debian.org/DebianInstaller/FAQ#Q:_Running_the_installer_from_an_iso_file_on_a_hdd_...

If someone improves it or a maintainer incorporates the point into the 
official instructions, I won't object.

> ... submit a patch to their maintainer.

Editing first hand seems to work better.  A few examples.
https://en.wikibooks.org/wiki/X86_Assembly
https://en.wikibooks.org/wiki/X86_Disassembly
https://en.wikibooks.org/wiki/Shelf:Computer_software

Regards,                            ... P.
                     
-- 
Tel: +1 604 670 0140            Bcc: peter at easthope. ca

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#229371

On Sun, 6 Dec 2020 at 08:09, <peter@easthope.ca> wrote:

> Added DebianInstaller FAQ 29.
> https://wiki.debian.org/DebianInstaller/FAQ#Q:_Running_the_installer_from_an_iso_file_on_a_hdd_...

> If someone improves it or a maintainer incorporates the point into the
> official instructions, I won't object.

Thanks for your contribution but one nitpick: I think that linking to
an i386 specific directory ("hd-media"directory) is a bad idea. Most
people aren't using i386. So you might want to reconsider how you've
presented that information, or not be surprised when that link gets
removed by someone.

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#229237

[Multipart message — attachments visible in raw view] — view raw

On Mi, 02 dec 20, 12:10:33, peter@easthope.ca wrote:
> > > https://www.debian.org/releases/stable/i386/ch05s01.en.html#boot-initrd
> > 
> > Quoting paragraphs 2 and 3 from your link above ...
> > 
> > Alternatively, if you intend to keep an existing partition on the hard
> > drive unchanged during the install, you can download the
> > hd-media/initrd.gz file and its kernel, as well as copy a CD (or DVD)
> > iso to the drive (make sure the file is named ending in .iso). The
> > installer can then boot from the drive and install from the CD/DVD
> > image, without needing the network.
> 
> > 1) Which of the above are you attempting? Paragraph 2 or paragraph 3?
> 
> 3.
> 
> >     Please describe what is on the hard drive before the installation, ...
> 
> Before the installation, the HDD can have any information at all. It 
> can be new, fresh from the factory.  It can be an old drive with a 
> bootable MS Windows system.  Any information be overwritten or 
> dereferenced  by steps below.  
 
Write one of these images to the hard disk (cp, dd, etc.), boot and 
install.

http://ftp.nl.debian.org/debian/dists/buster/main/installer-amd64/current/images/netboot/mini.iso
http://ftp.nl.debian.org/debian/dists/buster/main/installer-amd64/current/images/netboot/gtk/mini.iso

(note the 'gtk' in the path for the second image)

As far as I recall (it's been a while) these particular images (are the 
only ones that) can be used to install Debian to the block device used 
for booting.

It may be that this is not documented anywhere except in some blog post 
of Joey Hess when he made this particular change.

> > 2) Given that choice (para 2 or 3), where did you get the vmlinuz and 
> > initrd.gz you are using?
> 
> vmlinuz and initrd.gz are in the .iso.  No need to retrieve again.

You are assuming all of the vmlinuz and initrd.gz files are identical, 
but there is a reason for the guide to point to specific files.

In case this is not clear please do suggest wording improvements, e.g.  
via a bug of apropiate severity against 'installation-guide'.

Kind regards,
Andrei
-- 
http://wiki.debian.org/FAQsFromDebianUser

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#229227

On Tue 01 Dec 2020 at 14:50:52 -0800, peter@easthope.ca wrote:

> https://www.debian.org/releases/stable/i386/ch05s01.en.html#boot-initrd
> gives this sample Grub2 configuration.
> 
> menuentry 'New Install' {
> insmod part_msdos
> insmod ext2
> set root='(hd0,msdos1)'
> linux /boot/newinstall/vmlinuz
> initrd /boot/newinstall/initrd.gz
> }
> 
> No problem with vmlinuz and initrd.gz but the CD image is not found.

As David asks - where are vmlinuz and initrd.gz from? And what CD (?) 
image is being used?
 
> The configuration which worked in the past had parameters on the linux 
> command. Similar to this.
> 
> linux /vmlinuz root=UUID=50e0fa4b-6c62-40f8-8a84-46ab1413eb5a ro from=hd fromiso=debian-10.6.0-i386-netinst.iso load=all reboot=bios

I think you are misremembering something? If that is incorrect, you are
applying something to an inappropriate situation.

> The instructions at the URL above appear incomplete. Does anyone 
> happen to know how the ISO should be accessed?  Loop mount at 
> /dev/cdrom?

The instructions are complete. Loop mount? No!

-- 
Brian.

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#229231 — Re (2): Installation instructions.

From: Brian <ad44@cityscape.co.uk>
Date: Wed, 2 Dec 2020 18:51:38 +0000
> As David asks - where are vmlinuz and initrd.gz from? And what CD (?) 
> image is being used?

Answered in my reply to David here.
https://lists.debian.org/debian-user/2020/12/msg00045.html

If David finds an error in my procedure or insists that it works for 
him, I'll go through it again.

Regards,                           ... P.

-- 
Tel: +1 604 670 0140            Bcc: peter at easthope. ca

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#229234 — Re: Re (2): Installation instructions.

On Wed 02 Dec 2020 at 13:19:39 -0800, peter@easthope.ca wrote:

> From: Brian <ad44@cityscape.co.uk>
> Date: Wed, 2 Dec 2020 18:51:38 +0000
> > As David asks - where are vmlinuz and initrd.gz from? And what CD (?) 
> > image is being used?
> 
> Answered in my reply to David here.
> https://lists.debian.org/debian-user/2020/12/msg00045.html
> 
> If David finds an error in my procedure or insists that it works for 
> him, I'll go through it again.

David will go for the first option.

The initrd from the iso does not contain a loop module. The hd-media's
initrd does.

-- 
Brian.

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#229232

On 2020-12-01 5:50 p.m., peter@easthope.ca wrote:
> ....but the CD image is not found.
>
>
Peter,

Can you please confirm if you are/are not trying to boot the ISO image 
from a USB stick?

If you _are_ you are may be running into the same head-banging situation 
I was having the past week.  It was a combination of flakey motherboard 
BIOS configuration and one kernel commandline parameter ("iommu=soft") 
that needed to be specified to deal with the flakey m/b.

Until I configured the m/b to process Legacy first (before UEFI), 
disabled IOMMU, selected the UEFI instance of the USB stick and 
specified the above kernel parameter by editing the GRUB configuration, 
I could not get _two_ different Gigabyte motherboards to find the USB 
stick as a CDROM. On one of them I had to go into the BIOS to explicitly 
specify "USB Mass Storage" as "CDROM", in addition to the above. Both 
m/b's are using an AMI BIOS.

-- 
Regards,

John Boxall

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