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Re: NTFS partitions can't be mounted

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  Re: NTFS partitions can't be mounted Linux-Fan <Ma_Sys.ma@web.de> - 2020-11-25 18:40 +0100
    Re: NTFS partitions can't be mounted The Wanderer <wanderer@fastmail.fm> - 2020-11-25 21:00 +0100
      Re: NTFS partitions can't be mounted Doug McGarrett <dmcgarrett@optonline.net> - 2020-11-25 21:20 +0100
        Re: NTFS partitions can't be mounted Stefan Monnier <monnier@iro.umontreal.ca> - 2020-11-25 21:50 +0100
          Re: NTFS partitions can't be mounted <tomas@tuxteam.de> - 2020-11-25 22:20 +0100
            Re: NTFS partitions can't be mounted Joe <joe@jretrading.com> - 2020-11-25 22:30 +0100
              Re: NTFS partitions can't be mounted Charles Curley <charlescurley@charlescurley.com> - 2020-11-25 22:50 +0100
                Re: NTFS partitions can't be mounted Stefan Monnier <monnier@iro.umontreal.ca> - 2020-11-26 03:20 +0100

#229069 — Re: NTFS partitions can't be mounted

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Kanito 73 writes:

> Hello
>
> Al the previous issues I published are now solved. Relative to the RTL8821CE,  
> I searched for a module rtl8821ce.ko but the generated module was just  
> 8821ce.ko so when I loaded the only RTL* (rtl8821ae.ko) the right 8821ce.ko  
> was already loaded and I thought it was the rtl8821ae activating my wifi.  
> [SOLVED]
>
> Now I have another BIG problem.  I installed both Windows10 (version OCTOBER  
> 2020) and Debian 10.0.6 in dual boot and left a large NTFS partition for data  
> on the primary disk (HDD) and the whole secondary disk (SDD) also as a unique  
> NTFS partition.

Which parts went onto the SSD and which onto the HDD in the end?
Which of the two systems do you intend to use more often?
Which of the two systems will run computation-intensive (CPU, RAM, GPU)  
applications?

> Well, I installed Windows, then Installed Linux and tested the NTFS  
> partitions from Linux (Debian) mounting and copying some files successfully.  

[...]

> So I think that Windows 10 locks the partitions or something weird is going  
> on.
>
> If not solved I will clear the entire disks and install only Debian and run  
> Windoze on VirtualBox, I don't want since there are some games that I want to  
> play on native Windows but if it does not work will have to remove it from  
> the computer. CHKDSK.EXE reports no errors when I run it on such partitions.

[...]

> Damn Windows it is making me cry blood but I need it for some games and  
> programs...

[...]

See https://lists.debian.org/debian-user/2020/11/msg00574.html

The Wanderer's post contains a more elaborate explanation of the immediate  
issue you are most likely facing: Windows going into suspend-to-disk rather  
than actual shutdown.

A  possibility to bypass the fastboot/rapid startup technology is to use  
suitable arguments to the Windows `shutdown` command. It used to be possible  
to bypass it by doing a right-click on the Windows logo in the lower left  
and then choose "Shutdown" from that menu but I am not sure if this  
still works.

I'd still very much recommend running one of the two systems inside a  
virtual machine rather than physically despite the fact that the immediate  
issue with the rapid startup may be solved.

What about running virtual Linux under a Windows host? This would retain the  
gaming performance while at the same time solve the issues wrt. the file  
system. Of course, if you want to use your full RAM for Linux, this approach  
will not work. From my experience it is already difficult to run a 8 GiB  
Linux VM on a 16 GiB Windows machine (tested with Windows 10, Debian 10 and  
Microsoft Hyper-V).

HTH
Linux-fan

öö

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#229076

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On 2020-11-25 at 12:31, Linux-Fan wrote:

> Kanito 73 writes:
> 
>> Hello
>> 
>> Al the previous issues I published are now solved. Relative to the
>> RTL8821CE, I searched for a module rtl8821ce.ko but the generated
>> module was just 8821ce.ko so when I loaded the only RTL*
>> (rtl8821ae.ko) the right 8821ce.ko was already loaded and I thought
>> it was the rtl8821ae activating my wifi. [SOLVED]
>> 
>> Now I have another BIG problem.  I installed both Windows10
>> (version OCTOBER 2020) and Debian 10.0.6 in dual boot and left a
>> large NTFS partition for data on the primary disk (HDD) and the
>> whole secondary disk (SDD) also as a unique NTFS partition.

>> Well, I installed Windows, then Installed Linux and tested the NTFS
>>  partitions from Linux (Debian) mounting and copying some files
>> successfully.
> 
> [...]
> 
>> So I think that Windows 10 locks the partitions or something weird
>> is going on.

> The Wanderer's post contains a more elaborate explanation of the
> immediate issue you are most likely facing: Windows going into
> suspend-to-disk rather than actual shutdown.
> 
> A  possibility to bypass the fastboot/rapid startup technology is to
> use suitable arguments to the Windows `shutdown` command.

Yeah, I thought of that after hitting Send. The syntax for "shut down
now" should be 'shutdown /s /t 0'.

> It used to be possible to bypass it by doing a right-click on the
> Windows logo in the lower left and then choose "Shutdown" from that
> menu but I am not sure if this still works.

No, to the best of my awareness it does not. If it *does*, I'd be quite
interested to learn that.

-- 
   The Wanderer

The reasonable man adapts himself to the world; the unreasonable one
persists in trying to adapt the world to himself. Therefore all
progress depends on the unreasonable man.         -- George Bernard Shaw

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#229080

On 11/25/20 2:54 PM, The Wanderer wrote:
> On 2020-11-25 at 12:31, Linux-Fan wrote:
>
>> Kanito 73 writes:
>>
>>> Hello
>>>
>>> Al the previous issues I published are now solved. Relative to the
>>> RTL8821CE, I searched for a module rtl8821ce.ko but the generated
>>> module was just 8821ce.ko so when I loaded the only RTL*
>>> (rtl8821ae.ko) the right 8821ce.ko was already loaded and I thought
>>> it was the rtl8821ae activating my wifi. [SOLVED]
>>>
>>> Now I have another BIG problem.  I installed both Windows10
>>> (version OCTOBER 2020) and Debian 10.0.6 in dual boot and left a
>>> large NTFS partition for data on the primary disk (HDD) and the
>>> whole secondary disk (SDD) also as a unique NTFS partition.
>>> Well, I installed Windows, then Installed Linux and tested the NTFS
>>>   partitions from Linux (Debian) mounting and copying some files
>>> successfully.
>> [...]
>>
>>> So I think that Windows 10 locks the partitions or something weird
>>> is going on.
>> The Wanderer's post contains a more elaborate explanation of the
>> immediate issue you are most likely facing: Windows going into
>> suspend-to-disk rather than actual shutdown.
>>
>> A  possibility to bypass the fastboot/rapid startup technology is to
>> use suitable arguments to the Windows `shutdown` command.
> Yeah, I thought of that after hitting Send. The syntax for "shut down
> now" should be 'shutdown /s /t 0'.
>
>> It used to be possible to bypass it by doing a right-click on the
>> Windows logo in the lower left and then choose "Shutdown" from that
>> menu but I am not sure if this still works.
> No, to the best of my awareness it does not. If it *does*, I'd be quite
> interested to learn that.
>
Microsoft changes the system required to kill the fast-boot every so often,
almost surely to make it difficult for users of Linux to access Windows from
the Linux system. The routine as I last used it, a couple of months ago,
requires that you become Administrator in the Windows system, which
is not really very straightforward, but is doable. Then you access the
terminal and type in a word or two, and return. It's on the web--Firefox
is your friend.
--doug

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#229081

> Microsoft changes the system required to kill the fast-boot every so often,
> almost surely to make it difficult for users of Linux to access Windows from
> the Linux system.

That seems highly unlikely: it's a tiny number of users, and not only
they're not a threat but annoying them won't bring any benefit to MS.


        Stefan

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#229086

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On Wed, Nov 25, 2020 at 03:47:12PM -0500, Stefan Monnier wrote:
> > Microsoft changes the system required to kill the fast-boot every so often,
> > almost surely to make it difficult for users of Linux to access Windows from
> > the Linux system.
> 
> That seems highly unlikely: it's a tiny number of users, and not only
> they're not a threat but annoying them won't bring any benefit to MS.

This is a pattern which I like to call "emergent evil". Most likely
nobody does it on purpose, yet it happens often enough to annoy
competing ecosystems. Magic!

Cheers
 - t

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#229088

On Wed, 25 Nov 2020 22:11:47 +0100
<tomas@tuxteam.de> wrote:

> On Wed, Nov 25, 2020 at 03:47:12PM -0500, Stefan Monnier wrote:
> > > Microsoft changes the system required to kill the fast-boot every
> > > so often, almost surely to make it difficult for users of Linux
> > > to access Windows from the Linux system.  
> > 
> > That seems highly unlikely: it's a tiny number of users, and not
> > only they're not a threat but annoying them won't bring any benefit
> > to MS.  
> 
> This is a pattern which I like to call "emergent evil". Most likely
> nobody does it on purpose, yet it happens often enough to annoy
> competing ecosystems. Magic!
> 

NTFS has been NTFS since the 90s, while Linux has had ext2, ext3, ext4,
Reiser among other filesystems. Is it not likely that 'NTFS' has really
been a similar parade of different filesystems with each version of
Windows retaining the code to read previous versions? Occam's Razor?

-- 
Joe

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#229089

On Wed, 25 Nov 2020 21:22:30 +0000
Joe <joe@jretrading.com> wrote:

> NTFS has been NTFS since the 90s, while Linux has had ext2, ext3,
> ext4, Reiser among other filesystems. Is it not likely that 'NTFS'
> has really been a similar parade of different filesystems with each
> version of Windows retaining the code to read previous versions?
> Occam's Razor?

Microsoft has a bad habit of changing things under the hood without
bumping the version number. They could very well have changed NTFS
enough to bollix Linux NTFS libraries and not bothered to tell anyone.

-- 
Does anybody read signatures any more?

https://charlescurley.com
https://charlescurley.com/blog/

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#229094

> Microsoft has a bad habit of changing things under the hood without
> bumping the version number. They could very well have changed NTFS
> enough to bollix Linux NTFS libraries and not bothered to tell anyone.

Except that `ntfs-3g` can read and write NTFS and hasn't seen the need
for updates to follow those hypothetical changes on MS's side.  So if
there has been updates, they've been subtle and discreet enough not to
require significant changes on "our" side.  In constrast an `ext2`
filesystem driver for Windows would have trouble reading (and even more
so, writing) some `ext4` filesystems.


        Stefan

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