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is it possible to add a secondary disk to an existing debian systems and install programs to the secondary disk

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  is it possible to add a secondary disk to an existing debian systems  and install programs to the secondary disk Semih Ozlem <semihozlemlinuxuser@gmail.com> - 2021-02-22 21:10 +0100
    Re: is it possible to add a secondary disk to an existing debian  systems and install programs to the secondary disk Brian <ad44@cityscape.co.uk> - 2021-02-22 21:30 +0100
      Re: is it possible to add a secondary disk to an existing debian  systems and install programs to the secondary disk Semih Ozlem <semihozlemlinuxuser@gmail.com> - 2021-02-22 22:00 +0100
        Re: is it possible to add a secondary disk to an existing debian  systems and install programs to the secondary disk Greg Wooledge <greg@wooledge.org> - 2021-02-22 22:20 +0100
          Re: is it possible to add a secondary disk to an existing debian  systems and install programs to the secondary disk Semih Ozlem <semihozlemlinuxuser@gmail.com> - 2021-02-22 22:40 +0100
            Re: is it possible to add a secondary disk to an existing debian  systems and install programs to the secondary disk "Andrew M.A. Cater" <amacater@einval.com> - 2021-02-22 23:20 +0100
            Re: is it possible to add a secondary disk to an existing debian  systems and install programs to the secondary disk David <bouncingcats@gmail.com> - 2021-02-22 23:20 +0100
              Re: is it possible to add a secondary disk to an existing debian  systems and install programs to the secondary disk Semih Ozlem <semihozlemlinuxuser@gmail.com> - 2021-02-23 00:10 +0100
                Re: is it possible to add a secondary disk to an existing debian  systems and install programs to the secondary disk David <bouncingcats@gmail.com> - 2021-02-23 00:20 +0100
                Re: is it possible to add a secondary disk to an existing debian  systems and install programs to the secondary disk "James H. H. Lampert" <jamesl@touchtonecorp.com> - 2021-02-23 17:20 +0100
                Re: is it possible to add a secondary disk to an existing debian  systems and install programs to the secondary disk Nicholas Geovanis <nickgeovanis@gmail.com> - 2021-02-23 17:20 +0100
                  Re: is it possible to add a secondary disk to an existing debian systems and install programs to the secondary disk rhkramer@gmail.com - 2021-02-23 17:40 +0100
                    Re: is it possible to add a secondary disk to an existing debian  systems and install programs to the secondary disk Nicholas Geovanis <nickgeovanis@gmail.com> - 2021-02-23 18:00 +0100
                    Re: is it possible to add a secondary disk to an existing debian  systems and install programs to the secondary disk Joe <joe@jretrading.com> - 2021-02-23 18:20 +0100
            Re: is it possible to add a secondary disk to an existing debian  systems and install programs to the secondary disk Andrei POPESCU <andreimpopescu@gmail.com> - 2021-02-23 09:30 +0100
              Re: is it possible to add a secondary disk to an existing debian  systems and install programs to the secondary disk Celejar <celejar@gmail.com> - 2021-02-25 15:50 +0100
                Re: is it possible to add a secondary disk to an existing debian  systems and install programs to the secondary disk <tomas@tuxteam.de> - 2021-02-25 16:00 +0100
                Re: is it possible to add a secondary disk to an existing debian  systems and install programs to the secondary disk IL Ka <kazakevichilya@gmail.com> - 2021-02-25 16:00 +0100
                  Re: is it possible to add a secondary disk to an existing debian  systems and install programs to the secondary disk Celejar <celejar@gmail.com> - 2021-02-25 16:20 +0100
                    Re: is it possible to add a secondary disk to an existing debian  systems and install programs to the secondary disk IL Ka <kazakevichilya@gmail.com> - 2021-02-25 16:30 +0100
                      Re: is it possible to add a secondary disk to an existing debian  systems and install programs to the secondary disk The Wanderer <wanderer@fastmail.fm> - 2021-02-25 16:50 +0100
                        Re: is it possible to add a secondary disk to an existing debian  systems and install programs to the secondary disk Greg Wooledge <greg@wooledge.org> - 2021-02-25 17:00 +0100
                          Re: is it possible to add a secondary disk to an existing debian  systems and install programs to the secondary disk The Wanderer <wanderer@fastmail.fm> - 2021-02-25 17:10 +0100
                        Re: is it possible to add a secondary disk to an existing debian  systems and install programs to the secondary disk IL Ka <kazakevichilya@gmail.com> - 2021-02-25 17:00 +0100
                      Re: is it possible to add a secondary disk to an existing debian  systems and install programs to the secondary disk Celejar <celejar@gmail.com> - 2021-02-25 16:50 +0100
    Re: is it possible to add a secondary disk to an existing debian  systems and install programs to the secondary disk David Christensen <dpchrist@holgerdanske.com> - 2021-02-23 04:10 +0100
      Re: is it possible to add a secondary disk to an existing debian  systems and install programs to the secondary disk martin f krafft <madduck@debian.org> - 2021-02-23 11:40 +0100
        Re: is it possible to add a secondary disk to an existing debian  systems and install programs to the secondary disk Semih Ozlem <semihozlemlinuxuser@gmail.com> - 2021-02-26 07:00 +0100
          Re: is it possible to add a secondary disk to an existing debian  systems and install programs to the secondary disk Charles Curley <charlescurley@charlescurley.com> - 2021-02-26 08:00 +0100
            Re: is it possible to add a secondary disk to an existing debian  systems and install programs to the secondary disk Semih Ozlem <semihozlemlinuxuser@gmail.com> - 2021-02-26 08:40 +0100
              Re: is it possible to add a secondary disk to an existing debian  systems and install programs to the secondary disk Greg Wooledge <greg@wooledge.org> - 2021-02-26 13:30 +0100
          Re: is it possible to add a secondary disk to an existing debian  systems and install programs to the secondary disk David <bouncingcats@gmail.com> - 2021-02-26 11:00 +0100
            Re: is it possible to add a secondary disk to an existing debian  systems and install programs to the secondary disk Charles Curley <charlescurley@charlescurley.com> - 2021-02-26 18:30 +0100
              Re: is it possible to add a secondary disk to an existing debian  systems and install programs to the secondary disk Greg Wooledge <greg@wooledge.org> - 2021-02-26 18:50 +0100
                Re: is it possible to add a secondary disk to an existing debian  systems and install programs to the secondary disk Semih Ozlem <semihozlemlinuxuser@gmail.com> - 2021-02-27 09:40 +0100
                  Re: is it possible to add a secondary disk to an existing debian  systems and install programs to the secondary disk Semih Ozlem <semihozlemlinuxuser@gmail.com> - 2021-02-27 09:40 +0100
                    About keeping a Debian installation happy [was: is it possible to  add a secondary disk to an existing debian] systems and install programs to  the secondary disk <tomas@tuxteam.de> - 2021-02-27 10:20 +0100
                  Re: is it possible to add a secondary disk to an existing debian  systems and install programs to the secondary disk Joe <joe@jretrading.com> - 2021-02-27 10:10 +0100
                    Re: is it possible to add a secondary disk to an existing debian  systems and install programs to the secondary disk Semih Ozlem <semihozlemlinuxuser@gmail.com> - 2021-02-27 13:30 +0100
                      Re: is it possible to add a secondary disk to an existing debian  systems and install programs to the secondary disk Semih Ozlem <semihozlemlinuxuser@gmail.com> - 2021-02-27 13:30 +0100
                        Re: is it possible to add a secondary disk to an existing debian  systems and install programs to the secondary disk "Andrew M.A. Cater" <amacater@einval.com> - 2021-02-27 14:50 +0100
                      Re: is it possible to add a secondary disk to an existing debian  systems and install programs to the secondary disk Joe <joe@jretrading.com> - 2021-02-27 15:20 +0100
                      Re: is it possible to add a secondary disk to an existing debian  systems and install programs to the secondary disk David Wright <deblis@lionunicorn.co.uk> - 2021-03-01 01:40 +0100
          Re: is it possible to add a secondary disk to an existing debian  systems and install programs to the secondary disk martin f krafft <madduck@debian.org> - 2021-02-27 09:30 +0100

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#232103 — Re: is it possible to add a secondary disk to an existing debian systems and install programs to the secondary disk

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On 2021-02-25 at 10:26, IL Ka wrote:

>> Thanks for the explanation. But I guess that the Windows style is
>> becoming increasingly common in the Linux world as well,

>> with the rise
>> of Docker, Flatpak, Snap, etc. (as another poster in this thread
>> mentioned). And these are not just for those who don't understand the
>> value of using the repositories: lately I've been encountering quite a
>> few popular and useful applications (e.g., Nextcloud (server), Jitsi,
>> Caddy, Traefik) that for whatever reason (upstream doesn't maintain a
>> sufficiently stable version, etc.) are not packaged for Debian, and
>> going the Docker / Flatpak / Snap route is quite tempting.
> 
> Yes, this reason is very common: I need "Python 3.9", but stable Debian
> doesn't have it.

Eh?

$ apt-cache policy python3

python3:
  Installed: 3.9.1-1
  Candidate: 3.9.1-1
  Version table:
 *** 3.9.1-1 900
        900 http://ftp.us.debian.org/debian testing/main amd64 Packages
        100 /var/lib/dpkg/status
     3.7.3-1 800
        800 http://ftp.us.debian.org/debian stable/main amd64 Packages

This is tracking stable+testing, so usually running the version from
testing.

Unless you need *exactly* 3.9.0, and 3.9.1 won't do - in which case I
question your use case; anything with that tight of a version dependency
on its runtime seems risky to me at best.

-- 
   The Wanderer

The reasonable man adapts himself to the world; the unreasonable one
persists in trying to adapt the world to himself. Therefore all
progress depends on the unreasonable man.         -- George Bernard Shaw

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#232105 — Re: is it possible to add a secondary disk to an existing debian systems and install programs to the secondary disk

IL Ka (kazakevichilya@gmail.com) wrote:
> testing has [python] 3.9 and stable has 3.7.
> What if I need 3.9 but do not want to touch testing on my production server?
> Or how can I migrate to 3.10 (which will be released soon) if even bullseye
> will have only 3.9?

If your production software is intimately bound to a specific Python
version -- or any other language, really -- just forego the Debian
packages and build upstream's release of the exact version you need.

Leave the Debian python and python3 packages installed if they're
needed by other Debian packages.  Just ignore them for your production
stuff.

Build Python for your production stuff in /opt or /usr/local or with
Python virtual environments, or whatever it is that Python people do
nowadays.  Use that for your local development and deployments.

(/me looks at the Subject: header ... how on earth did we get from there
to here?)

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#232107 — Re: is it possible to add a secondary disk to an existing debian systems and install programs to the secondary disk

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On 2021-02-25 at 10:58, Greg Wooledge wrote:

> (/me looks at the Subject: header ... how on earth did we get from there
> to here?)

Topic drift is inexplicable and inexorable.

Just be glad this hasn't developed into a vs. thread yet.

-- 
   The Wanderer

The reasonable man adapts himself to the world; the unreasonable one
persists in trying to adapt the world to himself. Therefore all
progress depends on the unreasonable man.         -- George Bernard Shaw

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#232106 — Re: is it possible to add a secondary disk to an existing debian systems and install programs to the secondary disk

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>
>
> Eh?
>
> $ apt-cache policy python3
>
> python3:
>   Installed: 3.9.1-1
>   Candidate: 3.9.1-1
>   Version table:
>  *** 3.9.1-1 900
>         900 http://ftp.us.debian.org/debian testing/main amd64 Packages
>         100 /var/lib/dpkg/status
>      3.7.3-1 800
>         800 http://ftp.us.debian.org/debian stable/main amd64 Packages
>
> This is tracking stable+testing, so usually running the version from
> testing.
>

testing has 3.9 and stable has 3.7.
What if I need 3.9 but do not want to touch testing on my production server?
Or how can I migrate to 3.10 (which will be released soon) if even bullseye
will have only 3.9?

Docker is the answer)



> Unless you need *exactly* 3.9.0, and 3.9.1 won't do - in which case I
> question your use case; anything with that tight of a version dependency
> on its runtime seems risky to me at best.
>

I agree that code shouldn't depend on the minor version, but some people
think that
developer machines, staging and production should have the same version to
make bugs 100% reproducible, and this is one more reason to use Docker.





>

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#232104 — Re: is it possible to add a secondary disk to an existing debian systems and install programs to the secondary disk

On Thu, 25 Feb 2021 18:26:04 +0300
IL Ka <kazakevichilya@gmail.com> wrote:

> > Thanks for the explanation. But I guess that the Windows style is
> > becoming increasingly common in the Linux world as well,
> 
> You mean  "side by side", right?

I meant the habit of including all an application's dependencies in its
installation packaging, as with Docker / Flatpak / Snap.

> I agree. Some developers took another approach and compiled all their code
> statically.
> AFAIK "Go" language does it by default, so all libraries are simply
> "packed" to the one big binary file
> that depends on kernel ABI only.

Yes, I recently read a rant about this from the Gentoo people:

https://blogs.gentoo.org/mgorny/2021/02/19/the-modern-packagers-security-nightmare/

h/t:

https://www.osnews.com/story/133066/the-modern-packagers-security-nightmare/

> with the rise
> > of Docker, Flatpak, Snap, etc. (as another poster in this thread
> > mentioned). And these are not just for those who don't understand the
> > value of using the repositories: lately I've been encountering quite a
> > few popular and useful applications (e.g., Nextcloud (server), Jitsi,
> > Caddy, Traefik) that for whatever reason (upstream doesn't maintain a
> > sufficiently stable version, etc.) are not packaged for Debian, and
> > going the Docker / Flatpak / Snap route is quite tempting.
> >
> 
> Yes, this reason is very common: I need "Python 3.9", but stable Debian
> doesn't have it.
> So, I have to use Docker.
> 
> There is even a Linux distro that doesn't have anything except bare core
> OS: "Core OS"

And Ubuntu is apparently going in that direction, although I don't know
how far they plan to go:

https://www.howtogeek.com/670084/what-you-need-to-know-about-snaps-on-ubuntu-20.04/

Celejar

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#231966 — Re: is it possible to add a secondary disk to an existing debian systems and install programs to the secondary disk

On 2021-02-22 12:04, Semih Ozlem wrote:
> Hi everyone,
> 
> First of all thanks to everyone who responded in detail to my 
> previous questions in email. Thanks for taking the time to read and 
> reply to my questions.

YW.  :-)


> I would like to ask a different question. Suppose that I install 
> debian on a usb or a hard drive that does not have a lot of space. 
> Suppose I get a second hard disk that has more space. Can I add the 
> second disk to the debian system in a way so that additional programs
> that can not be installed in the system without the second disk due
> to "no disk space left" error can now be installed in the system. If
> the answer is yes, how should one proceed to add the second hard disk
> to the system so that this can be done?

On 2021-02-22 12:55, Semih Ozlem wrote:
> The problem is when installing from the downloaded files, the system
>  itself may give an error saying no disk space left.

On 2021-02-22 13:37, Semih Ozlem wrote:
> I am currently pre-planning. If it could be done, then I am going to
>  go about searching and purchasing necessary devices in order to do 
> the task. That's why I am asking in the first place. I have a usb 
> device that I can attach for testing now.
> 
> Currently I am just running from a live usb.

On 2021-02-22 15:02, Semih Ozlem wrote:
> processor i3-7100 ram 4 gb other details will have to restart the 
> machine to tell. storage device there is an internal hard disk 
> (500gb) that has windows installed on it, which I can not install 
> another operating system to for now for reasons that I would have to
>  back up files before and I don't have time right now to do that, and
>  I am not sure about what would be the safest> way of copying files 
> (or should I clone the disk instead) I will send lshw output shortly
> for interfaces and everything else.
> 
> Software goal is (i) be able to test different systems, and planning
>  to use virtualization for this purpose (ii) possibly create virtual 
> machines with programs installed (iii) a sort of a potential goal is 
> to build a web site and host it , but mainly just rather for
> learning how to do it, since probably I can not afford for now
> actually investing in necessary equipment and probably it is easier
> to do that by paying some service rather than doing it all on one's
> own (iv) be able to run some programming projects in python
> 
> I sort of like exploring and testing out new things, and most of it 
> is not planned. But basically I would like to have the system be able
> to hold (i) security tools/antivirus (ii) server (apache and samba),
> probably LAMP or nginx (iii) math packages / programs (R,gnuplot,
> lapack, and possibly others) (iv) programming packages 
> (gcc,python,java,rhino) at the very least (v) virtualization 
> (virtualbox) (vi) calibre (document viewing and creating
> instruments) (v) latex (vi) programs to record and view videos or
> audios, if possible running on the same machine. Of these, I may
> forego idea of running a server if this slows things too much.
> 
> If possible also programming tools for machine-learning.
Thank you for providing that information.  :-)


You are correct in wanting to back up Windows before going too far into 
Linux.  I use Backup and Restore and/or File History, depending upon 
Windows version/ edition.


Your Linux software/ use-case shopping list is very ambitious.  I 
suggest starting simple and building up as you gain experience. 
Installing Linux is one thing.  Configuring, operating, maintaining, 
adding software, backing up, restoring, updating, and upgrading Linux 
within a local network and Internet environment correctly and 
confidently requires a lot of learning.


Again, what is the make and model of your computer?  If custom, what is 
the make and model of the chassis and motherboard?  This information is 
required to make sensible recommendations.


Linux provides many useful tools for obtaining information about 
computers.  Please boot live Linux, connect your USB device, run the 
following commands as root, and post the console session (prompt, 
command, and output):

     # lscpu

     # dmidecode --type 17

     # fdisk -l

     # dmesg | tail -n 20


David

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#231971 — Re: is it possible to add a secondary disk to an existing debian systems and install programs to the secondary disk

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Semih,

Maybe I can provide a quick and easy solution, depending on what 
happens when you type

```
$ sudo lvs
```

into a terminal. Could you let us know what that spits out?

Thanks,

-- 
  .''`.   martin f. krafft <madduck@d.o> @martinkrafft
: :'  :  proud Debian developer
`. `'`   http://people.debian.org/~madduck
   `-  Debian - when you have better things to do than fixing systems
  
the security, stability and reliability of a computer system
is reciprocally proportional to
the amount of vacuity between the ears of the admin.

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#232135 — Re: is it possible to add a secondary disk to an existing debian systems and install programs to the secondary disk

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lvs is in which package?
closest I can find are:
 from apt search
(i) netgen-lvs/stable 1.5.118-1 amd64
  Netlist comparison - Layout vs Schematic (LVS)
from google or yandex search
(ii) https://github.com/alibaba/LVS

martin f krafft <madduck@debian.org>, 23 Şub 2021 Sal, 13:30 tarihinde şunu
yazdı:

> Semih,
>
> Maybe I can provide a quick and easy solution, depending on what happens
> when you type
>
> $ sudo lvs
>
> into a terminal. Could you let us know what that spits out?
>
> Thanks,
> --
> .''`. martin f. krafft madduck@d.o @martinkrafft
> :' : proud Debian developer
>
> .'http://people.debian.org/~madduck- Debian - when you have better things
> to do than fixing systems
>
>
> the security, stability and reliability of a computer system
>
> is reciprocally proportional to
>
> the amount of vacuity between the ears of the admin.
>

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#232139 — Re: is it possible to add a secondary disk to an existing debian systems and install programs to the secondary disk

On Fri, 26 Feb 2021 08:54:16 +0300
Semih Ozlem <semihozlemlinuxuser@gmail.com> wrote:

> lvs is in which package?
> closest I can find are:
>  from apt search
> (i) netgen-lvs/stable 1.5.118-1 amd64
>   Netlist comparison - Layout vs Schematic (LVS)
> from google or yandex search
> (ii) https://github.com/alibaba/LVS

charles@hawk:~$ apt-file search /lvs | grep lvs$
bash-completion: /usr/share/bash-completion/completions/lvs
lvm2: /sbin/lvs
charles@hawk:~$

P.s. please don't top post. That is, put your reply after what you are
replying to. It's much easier to read. Thanks

-- 
Does anybody read signatures any more?

https://charlescurley.com
https://charlescurley.com/blog/

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#232142 — Re: is it possible to add a secondary disk to an existing debian systems and install programs to the secondary disk

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Is lvs linux virtual server?

I am not able to find a command or a file with the name lvs...

Charles Curley <charlescurley@charlescurley.com>, 26 Şub 2021 Cum, 09:53
tarihinde şunu yazdı:

> On Fri, 26 Feb 2021 08:54:16 +0300
> Semih Ozlem <semihozlemlinuxuser@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > lvs is in which package?
> > closest I can find are:
> >  from apt search
> > (i) netgen-lvs/stable 1.5.118-1 amd64
> >   Netlist comparison - Layout vs Schematic (LVS)
> > from google or yandex search
> > (ii) https://github.com/alibaba/LVS
>
> charles@hawk:~$ apt-file search /lvs | grep lvs$
> bash-completion: /usr/share/bash-completion/completions/lvs
> lvm2: /sbin/lvs
> charles@hawk:~$
>
> P.s. please don't top post. That is, put your reply after what you are
> replying to. It's much easier to read. Thanks
>
> --
> Does anybody read signatures any more?
>
> https://charlescurley.com
> https://charlescurley.com/blog/
>
>

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#232151 — Re: is it possible to add a secondary disk to an existing debian systems and install programs to the secondary disk

Semih Ozlem (semihozlemlinuxuser@gmail.com) wrote:
> Is lvs linux virtual server?
> 
> I am not able to find a command or a file with the name lvs...

Here, I found it for you:

> Charles Curley <charlescurley@charlescurley.com>, 26 Şub 2021 Cum, 09:53
> tarihinde şunu yazdı:
> > charles@hawk:~$ apt-file search /lvs | grep lvs$
> > bash-completion: /usr/share/bash-completion/completions/lvs
> > lvm2: /sbin/lvs
> > charles@hawk:~$

It was right there in the email to which you replied.

Maybe if you tried reading from top to bottom instead of writing from
bottom to top and ignoring the part you replied to...?

As you can see from Charles's email, the command is in the /sbin/
directory and is part of the lvm2 package.  If you don't have that
package installed, then you won't have that command.

If you want to know what the command does, without installing it, you
can look up the man page online, at <http://manpages.debian.org/>.

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#232145 — Re: is it possible to add a secondary disk to an existing debian systems and install programs to the secondary disk

[I re-arranged this to correct the top-posting]

On Fri, 26 Feb 2021 at 16:54, Semih Ozlem <semihozlemlinuxuser@gmail.com> wrote:
> martin f krafft <madduck@debian.org>, 23 Şub 2021 Sal, 13:30 tarihinde şunu yazdı:

>> Maybe I can provide a quick and easy solution, depending on what happens when you type
>> $ sudo lvs
>> into a terminal. Could you let us know what that spits out?

> lvs is in which package?

My guess is that the 'lvs' mentioned is intended to be the
'lvs' in the 'lvm2' package, as shown below.

root@kablamm:~# type lvs
lvs is /sbin/lvs
root@kablamm:~# dpkg -S /sbin/lvs
lvm2: /sbin/lvs

However I am unsure why this was asked for.
If you are not already using LVM [1] on your system
then I would expect the 'lvs' command output to be blank.

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Logical_Volume_Manager_(Linux)

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#232158 — Re: is it possible to add a secondary disk to an existing debian systems and install programs to the secondary disk

On Fri, 26 Feb 2021 20:56:34 +1100
David <bouncingcats@gmail.com> wrote:

> However I am unsure why this was asked for.
> If you are not already using LVM [1] on your system
> then I would expect the 'lvs' command output to be blank.

M. Ozlem's original questions was, could one add another disk to a
debian system. Someone suggested using LVM. Someone else asked for the
output of the command

sudo lvs

M. Ozlem has had problems finding lvs in order to run it.

My guess is that M. Ozlem is fairly new at Linux/Unix, and missed
several cues most of us would have picked up on. One of them is that if
the lvm2 package isn't installed, M. Ozlem would get a complaint that
his OS couldn't find it. That complaint would tell most of us that he
didn't have LVM installed, and therefore using LVM to expand his system
would be problematic, probably requiring re-installation.

M. Ozlem didn't report this complaint, but instead asked which package
it was in, which started this side-line of emails. I replied with the
output of apt-file indicating the package M. Ozlem would have to
install in order to get the program lvs. I made the mistake of figuring
that M. Ozlem would read closely the output I provided.

I also made the mistake of figuring that getting lvs installed would
help solve the problem. I later realized that getting lvs installed
would be irrelevant: the fact that it is not installed tells us what
we needed to know: M. Ozlem isn't running LVM, so the solution to the
problem is not simply to expand the current volume group (VG) onto the
new hard drive. There is no current VG to expand.

So where do we go from here?

-- 
Does anybody read signatures any more?

https://charlescurley.com
https://charlescurley.com/blog/

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#232159 — Re: is it possible to add a secondary disk to an existing debian systems and install programs to the secondary disk

Charles Curley (charlescurley@charlescurley.com) wrote:
> I also made the mistake of figuring that getting lvs installed would
> help solve the problem. I later realized that getting lvs installed
> would be irrelevant: the fact that it is not installed tells us what
> we needed to know: M. Ozlem isn't running LVM, so the solution to the
> problem is not simply to expand the current volume group (VG) onto the
> new hard drive. There is no current VG to expand.
> 
> So where do we go from here?

Yes, all of that is true and useful.

The real problem, though, is that the OP apparently *does not have* a
Debian installation at all.  They're just sticking a Live USB thingy
into a computer and running Debian from that.  Debian is not installed
on their computer, and they've stated that they have no intention of
installing it on their computer -- at least not on the current hard
drive which is dedicated to Microsoft Windows.

Once we learned that, I pretty much stopped paying attention to anything
else they said.

I'm guessing that their goal is to keep booting from their Live USB
thingy, but to use a second hard drive (which does not exist yet) as
some sort of auxiliary storage that will magically hold whatever they
want to install.

I might suggest that a *better* goal would be to install Debian on the
new hard drive (once it exists), and stop booting the Live system.

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#232177 — Re: is it possible to add a secondary disk to an existing debian systems and install programs to the secondary disk

[Multipart message — attachments visible in raw view] — view raw

Sorry I can not read emails very often. No I am not new to linux I have
been using it for the past 6 or 7 years starting mostly with ubuntu. I had
CENTOS and Ubuntu and debian installed on some machines before.  Most of
them stopped functioning. Some of them in less than six months.

I am new to the debian users group, because I found out that a user group
existed much later. During this time I had a lot of issues with computers.
The new computer that I got, originally the store claimed that the
insurance on my machine would be invalidated if I installed another
operation system on the machine.

The reason for hesitating to install debian right now is simply that the
machines may become unusable again, and the invested time and machinepower
to installing a machine may end up being wasted. The other reason was the
claim that insurance may become invalid which later turned out not to be
so, but only after asking the company that sells the computer several
times. The third reason is I simply do not at the moment have the time to
backup the existing hard drive before installing a new operating system on
it, and also that should it become unusable or stop functioning (I had
debian installed on a usb 64 gb of size that stopped booting)..

Yes I did figure out that it was lvm2 package that was needed, and lvs is
actually one of the internal commands for lvm2 as well so it could be run
from the console lvm2 prodives. I am looking into the option of using lvm.



Greg Wooledge <greg@wooledge.org>, 26 Şub 2021 Cum, 20:42 tarihinde şunu
yazdı:

> Charles Curley (charlescurley@charlescurley.com) wrote:
> > I also made the mistake of figuring that getting lvs installed would
> > help solve the problem. I later realized that getting lvs installed
> > would be irrelevant: the fact that it is not installed tells us what
> > we needed to know: M. Ozlem isn't running LVM, so the solution to the
> > problem is not simply to expand the current volume group (VG) onto the
> > new hard drive. There is no current VG to expand.
> >
> > So where do we go from here?
>
> Yes, all of that is true and useful.
>
> The real problem, though, is that the OP apparently *does not have* a
> Debian installation at all.  They're just sticking a Live USB thingy
> into a computer and running Debian from that.  Debian is not installed
> on their computer, and they've stated that they have no intention of
> installing it on their computer -- at least not on the current hard
> drive which is dedicated to Microsoft Windows.
>
> Once we learned that, I pretty much stopped paying attention to anything
> else they said.
>
> I'm guessing that their goal is to keep booting from their Live USB
> thingy, but to use a second hard drive (which does not exist yet) as
> some sort of auxiliary storage that will magically hold whatever they
> want to install.
>
> I might suggest that a *better* goal would be to install Debian on the
> new hard drive (once it exists), and stop booting the Live system.
>
>

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#232178 — Re: is it possible to add a secondary disk to an existing debian systems and install programs to the secondary disk

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Also even though I have been using linux for a while, that still does not
mean that I would know everything about linux or that there would be no
details that I miss...

Semih Ozlem <semihozlemlinuxuser@gmail.com>, 27 Şub 2021 Cmt, 11:30
tarihinde şunu yazdı:

> Sorry I can not read emails very often. No I am not new to linux I have
> been using it for the past 6 or 7 years starting mostly with ubuntu. I had
> CENTOS and Ubuntu and debian installed on some machines before.  Most of
> them stopped functioning. Some of them in less than six months.
>
> I am new to the debian users group, because I found out that a user group
> existed much later. During this time I had a lot of issues with computers.
> The new computer that I got, originally the store claimed that the
> insurance on my machine would be invalidated if I installed another
> operation system on the machine.
>
> The reason for hesitating to install debian right now is simply that the
> machines may become unusable again, and the invested time and machinepower
> to installing a machine may end up being wasted. The other reason was the
> claim that insurance may become invalid which later turned out not to be
> so, but only after asking the company that sells the computer several
> times. The third reason is I simply do not at the moment have the time to
> backup the existing hard drive before installing a new operating system on
> it, and also that should it become unusable or stop functioning (I had
> debian installed on a usb 64 gb of size that stopped booting)..
>
> Yes I did figure out that it was lvm2 package that was needed, and lvs is
> actually one of the internal commands for lvm2 as well so it could be run
> from the console lvm2 prodives. I am looking into the option of using lvm.
>
>
>
> Greg Wooledge <greg@wooledge.org>, 26 Şub 2021 Cum, 20:42 tarihinde şunu
> yazdı:
>
>> Charles Curley (charlescurley@charlescurley.com) wrote:
>> > I also made the mistake of figuring that getting lvs installed would
>> > help solve the problem. I later realized that getting lvs installed
>> > would be irrelevant: the fact that it is not installed tells us what
>> > we needed to know: M. Ozlem isn't running LVM, so the solution to the
>> > problem is not simply to expand the current volume group (VG) onto the
>> > new hard drive. There is no current VG to expand.
>> >
>> > So where do we go from here?
>>
>> Yes, all of that is true and useful.
>>
>> The real problem, though, is that the OP apparently *does not have* a
>> Debian installation at all.  They're just sticking a Live USB thingy
>> into a computer and running Debian from that.  Debian is not installed
>> on their computer, and they've stated that they have no intention of
>> installing it on their computer -- at least not on the current hard
>> drive which is dedicated to Microsoft Windows.
>>
>> Once we learned that, I pretty much stopped paying attention to anything
>> else they said.
>>
>> I'm guessing that their goal is to keep booting from their Live USB
>> thingy, but to use a second hard drive (which does not exist yet) as
>> some sort of auxiliary storage that will magically hold whatever they
>> want to install.
>>
>> I might suggest that a *better* goal would be to install Debian on the
>> new hard drive (once it exists), and stop booting the Live system.
>>
>>

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#232180 — About keeping a Debian installation happy [was: is it possible to add a secondary disk to an existing debian] systems and install programs to the secondary disk

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On Sat, Feb 27, 2021 at 11:34:10AM +0300, Semih Ozlem wrote:
> Also even though I have been using linux for a while, that still does not
> mean that I would know everything about linux or that there would be no
> details that I miss...

Nobody does. The Linux kernel alone receives roughly 6000-8000 patches
*a month* [1] [2]. That amounts to a steady stream of one patch every
five minutes, if I didn't miscalculate.

A tad less than 2000 developers are contributing at any given time.

And a (GNU)/Linux distro is a bit more than that. No way to keep up
on each and every corner of that. Much less as a single person.

That said, I'm around that stuff since... something between 1993
and 1994. My main workstation (and a couple of other installations,
often at customer's) have been purely GNU/Linux things, most of
the time Debian.

I haven't experienced that kind of catastrophic failure since...
well, let's say 1996 or so. Most of the time, I've had fairly clean
upgrades, with few pains (and I /do/ customize my systems. I'm
sometimes picky. I don't like systemd, for example, thus I do
increase my risk by departing from the beaten path here and there).

What may be elements contributing towards keeping an installation
happy? This surely depends on many things. Here are a couple of
advices from an old jeezer:

 - community
   Find people "around" you (geographically is the best, but
   sometimes you don't have that luxury). A mailing list like
   this is an option. People you trust, and you learn to understand.

 - OS usage model
   think about how you are treating you OS: is it a pet, you
   know by name (upgrade frequently, install this-or-that
   utility from source, let it develop a "personality" over
   time, you're kind of sad when it dies) or is it "cattle"
   (you invest a lot into automating install and deployment,
   which happens nearly instantly. When the system coughs,
   you dump it and deploy a new one).

   Those are very different approaches, and have different
   properties.

   It pays off to think about what you want to do. I'm
   (pretty firmly) in the "pet" camp, although I see what the
   "cattle" model is good for. For a perspective from the "cattle"
   camp, see [3].

   I have the feeling that you dither between both positions
   (you deploy as "cattle", i.e. don't dare to install to
   disk) and expect "pet" behaviour (i.e. long-time stability).

Sorry for this philosophical interruption :-)

Cheers

[1] https://lwn.net/Articles/839772/
[2] https://lwn.net/Articles/845831/
[3] https://joachim8675309.medium.com/devops-concepts-pets-vs-cattle-2380b5aab313

 - t

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#232179 — Re: is it possible to add a secondary disk to an existing debian systems and install programs to the secondary disk

On Sat, 27 Feb 2021 11:30:08 +0300
Semih Ozlem <semihozlemlinuxuser@gmail.com> wrote:

> Sorry I can not read emails very often. No I am not new to linux I
> have been using it for the past 6 or 7 years starting mostly with
> ubuntu. I had CENTOS and Ubuntu and debian installed on some machines
> before.  Most of them stopped functioning. Some of them in less than
> six months.

OK, that simply should not happen. I don't know if either Centos or
Ubuntu can do in-place version upgrades, but if not, they should
certainly run from release to unsupported status. My current server
installation is a new one, but previously it ran through several
Debian stable version upgrades and many years, and a couple of changes
of hardware. There is such a thing as software rot, and it certainly
affects applications, but the OS of Debian stable should run pretty much
forever.
> 
> I am new to the debian users group, because I found out that a user
> group existed much later. During this time I had a lot of issues with
> computers. The new computer that I got, originally the store claimed
> that the insurance on my machine would be invalidated if I installed
> another operation system on the machine.
> 
> The reason for hesitating to install debian right now is simply that
> the machines may become unusable again, and the invested time and
> machinepower to installing a machine may end up being wasted. The
> other reason was the claim that insurance may become invalid which
> later turned out not to be so, but only after asking the company that
> sells the computer several times.

No software carries any kind of warranty, not even the famous Windows,
but the warranty should certainly cover the hardware if it isn't
physically abused. Software warranty service is pretty much limited to
reinstalling Windows with loss of all data and applications, which any
user can do themselves.

> The third reason is I simply do not
> at the moment have the time to backup the existing hard drive before
> installing a new operating system on it, and also that should it
> become unusable or stop functioning (I had debian installed on a usb
> 64 gb of size that stopped booting)..

Ah, USB sticks *do* stop working or lose bits without warning. Well, so
do spinning hard drives, but not usually in less than about five years,
often much longer.
> 
> Yes I did figure out that it was lvm2 package that was needed, and
> lvs is actually one of the internal commands for lvm2 as well so it
> could be run from the console lvm2 prodives. I am looking into the
> option of using lvm.

That's fairly painless to use, as Debian will set it up during the OS
installation. To be honest, I've had it installed for many years, and
only occasionally used it. Drives are now large enough that I don't
outgrow them in the lifetime of the hardware. In addition to adding
and removing drives, LVM does allow online backups, if you've left
enough unused space. Read about snapshots.

-- 
Joe

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#232183 — Re: is it possible to add a secondary disk to an existing debian systems and install programs to the secondary disk

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Should I then be suspicious of a possible attack on the system in case the
system fails, if both debian and ubuntu are fairly stable? The usb flash
drives themselves are still functional in the sense that I can view the
files in them after plugging them in. I backed up the data on them. But
when I try to boot from 64 gb usb flash disks (one with ubuntu 18 04 the
other debian 10 point something installed on them) the boot process does
not complete and the login screen does not appear. The two recovery modes
(I guess those are the snapshots no?) do not finish booting either.

Joe <joe@jretrading.com>, 27 Şub 2021 Cmt, 12:02 tarihinde şunu yazdı:

> On Sat, 27 Feb 2021 11:30:08 +0300
> Semih Ozlem <semihozlemlinuxuser@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > Sorry I can not read emails very often. No I am not new to linux I
> > have been using it for the past 6 or 7 years starting mostly with
> > ubuntu. I had CENTOS and Ubuntu and debian installed on some machines
> > before.  Most of them stopped functioning. Some of them in less than
> > six months.
>
> OK, that simply should not happen. I don't know if either Centos or
> Ubuntu can do in-place version upgrades, but if not, they should
> certainly run from release to unsupported status. My current server
> installation is a new one, but previously it ran through several
> Debian stable version upgrades and many years, and a couple of changes
> of hardware. There is such a thing as software rot, and it certainly
> affects applications, but the OS of Debian stable should run pretty much
> forever.
> >
> > I am new to the debian users group, because I found out that a user
> > group existed much later. During this time I had a lot of issues with
> > computers. The new computer that I got, originally the store claimed
> > that the insurance on my machine would be invalidated if I installed
> > another operation system on the machine.
> >
> > The reason for hesitating to install debian right now is simply that
> > the machines may become unusable again, and the invested time and
> > machinepower to installing a machine may end up being wasted. The
> > other reason was the claim that insurance may become invalid which
> > later turned out not to be so, but only after asking the company that
> > sells the computer several times.
>
> No software carries any kind of warranty, not even the famous Windows,
> but the warranty should certainly cover the hardware if it isn't
> physically abused. Software warranty service is pretty much limited to
> reinstalling Windows with loss of all data and applications, which any
> user can do themselves.
>
> > The third reason is I simply do not
> > at the moment have the time to backup the existing hard drive before
> > installing a new operating system on it, and also that should it
> > become unusable or stop functioning (I had debian installed on a usb
> > 64 gb of size that stopped booting)..
>
> Ah, USB sticks *do* stop working or lose bits without warning. Well, so
> do spinning hard drives, but not usually in less than about five years,
> often much longer.
> >
> > Yes I did figure out that it was lvm2 package that was needed, and
> > lvs is actually one of the internal commands for lvm2 as well so it
> > could be run from the console lvm2 prodives. I am looking into the
> > option of using lvm.
>
> That's fairly painless to use, as Debian will set it up during the OS
> installation. To be honest, I've had it installed for many years, and
> only occasionally used it. Drives are now large enough that I don't
> outgrow them in the lifetime of the hardware. In addition to adding
> and removing drives, LVM does allow online backups, if you've left
> enough unused space. Read about snapshots.
>
> --
> Joe
>
>

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#232184 — Re: is it possible to add a secondary disk to an existing debian systems and install programs to the secondary disk

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One potential extra information that could be relevant is that I did use
the flash drives in a university network, and using shared wifi in a hostel
and before in a public library.

Semih Ozlem <semihozlemlinuxuser@gmail.com>, 27 Şub 2021 Cmt, 15:19
tarihinde şunu yazdı:

> Should I then be suspicious of a possible attack on the system in case the
> system fails, if both debian and ubuntu are fairly stable? The usb flash
> drives themselves are still functional in the sense that I can view the
> files in them after plugging them in. I backed up the data on them. But
> when I try to boot from 64 gb usb flash disks (one with ubuntu 18 04 the
> other debian 10 point something installed on them) the boot process does
> not complete and the login screen does not appear. The two recovery modes
> (I guess those are the snapshots no?) do not finish booting either.
>
> Joe <joe@jretrading.com>, 27 Şub 2021 Cmt, 12:02 tarihinde şunu yazdı:
>
>> On Sat, 27 Feb 2021 11:30:08 +0300
>> Semih Ozlem <semihozlemlinuxuser@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> > Sorry I can not read emails very often. No I am not new to linux I
>> > have been using it for the past 6 or 7 years starting mostly with
>> > ubuntu. I had CENTOS and Ubuntu and debian installed on some machines
>> > before.  Most of them stopped functioning. Some of them in less than
>> > six months.
>>
>> OK, that simply should not happen. I don't know if either Centos or
>> Ubuntu can do in-place version upgrades, but if not, they should
>> certainly run from release to unsupported status. My current server
>> installation is a new one, but previously it ran through several
>> Debian stable version upgrades and many years, and a couple of changes
>> of hardware. There is such a thing as software rot, and it certainly
>> affects applications, but the OS of Debian stable should run pretty much
>> forever.
>> >
>> > I am new to the debian users group, because I found out that a user
>> > group existed much later. During this time I had a lot of issues with
>> > computers. The new computer that I got, originally the store claimed
>> > that the insurance on my machine would be invalidated if I installed
>> > another operation system on the machine.
>> >
>> > The reason for hesitating to install debian right now is simply that
>> > the machines may become unusable again, and the invested time and
>> > machinepower to installing a machine may end up being wasted. The
>> > other reason was the claim that insurance may become invalid which
>> > later turned out not to be so, but only after asking the company that
>> > sells the computer several times.
>>
>> No software carries any kind of warranty, not even the famous Windows,
>> but the warranty should certainly cover the hardware if it isn't
>> physically abused. Software warranty service is pretty much limited to
>> reinstalling Windows with loss of all data and applications, which any
>> user can do themselves.
>>
>> > The third reason is I simply do not
>> > at the moment have the time to backup the existing hard drive before
>> > installing a new operating system on it, and also that should it
>> > become unusable or stop functioning (I had debian installed on a usb
>> > 64 gb of size that stopped booting)..
>>
>> Ah, USB sticks *do* stop working or lose bits without warning. Well, so
>> do spinning hard drives, but not usually in less than about five years,
>> often much longer.
>> >
>> > Yes I did figure out that it was lvm2 package that was needed, and
>> > lvs is actually one of the internal commands for lvm2 as well so it
>> > could be run from the console lvm2 prodives. I am looking into the
>> > option of using lvm.
>>
>> That's fairly painless to use, as Debian will set it up during the OS
>> installation. To be honest, I've had it installed for many years, and
>> only occasionally used it. Drives are now large enough that I don't
>> outgrow them in the lifetime of the hardware. In addition to adding
>> and removing drives, LVM does allow online backups, if you've left
>> enough unused space. Read about snapshots.
>>
>> --
>> Joe
>>
>>

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