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Recommendation for a netbook

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  Recommendation for a netbook Nicolas George <george@nsup.org> - 2021-01-25 11:40 +0100
    Re: Recommendation for a netbook Stefan Monnier <monnier@iro.umontreal.ca> - 2021-01-25 16:00 +0100
      Re: Recommendation for a netbook "Andrew M.A. Cater" <amacater@einval.com> - 2021-01-25 16:20 +0100
        Re: Recommendation for a netbook Nicolas George <george@nsup.org> - 2021-01-25 16:30 +0100
          Re: Recommendation for a netbook "Andrew M.A. Cater" <amacater@einval.com> - 2021-01-25 17:20 +0100
            Re: Recommendation for a netbook Nicolas George <george@nsup.org> - 2021-01-25 17:30 +0100
              Re: Recommendation for a netbook Nicolas George <george@nsup.org> - 2021-01-25 17:50 +0100
              Re: Recommendation for a netbook "Andrew M.A. Cater" <amacater@einval.com> - 2021-01-25 18:20 +0100
              Re: Recommendation for a netbook deloptes <deloptes@gmail.com> - 2021-01-25 21:10 +0100
                Re: Recommendation for a netbook Nicolas George <george@nsup.org> - 2021-01-25 21:30 +0100
                  Re: Recommendation for a netbook deloptes <deloptes@gmail.com> - 2021-01-26 00:40 +0100
                    Re: Recommendation for a netbook Peter Ehlert <peter@sdi-baja.com> - 2021-01-26 01:10 +0100
                      Re: Recommendation for a netbook deloptes <deloptes@gmail.com> - 2021-01-26 09:10 +0100
          Re: Recommendation for a netbook Andrei POPESCU <andreimpopescu@gmail.com> - 2021-01-26 08:20 +0100
    Re: Recommendation for a netbook Nicolas George <george@nsup.org> - 2021-02-08 11:00 +0100
      Re: Recommendation for a netbook Joe <joe@jretrading.com> - 2021-02-08 12:30 +0100
        Re: Recommendation for a netbook Hans <hans.ullrich@loop.de> - 2021-02-08 12:50 +0100
          Re: Recommendation for a netbook Alain D D Williams <addw@phcomp.co.uk> - 2021-02-08 13:10 +0100

#231082 — Recommendation for a netbook

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Hi.

I'll have to retire my current netbook soon. It was a Lenovo Miix
3-1030 from 2015; it has a good screen but otherwise is complete crap,
with non-standard unsupported hardware and other drawbacks.

I need a ~10 inches touchscreen, and I want a good-ish resolution
(≥1600). And I need it to be not expensive, because that's for taking in
transports daily and sometimes leaving unsupervised in classrooms. Apart
from that, having the wifi and sound controllers supported by standard
Debian kernels would be a significant progress, and speed or memory are
no issue. I don't care if the keyboard can be removed to leave a tablet.

Do you have any good recommendation with these conditions?

Thanks in advance.

-- 
  Nicola George

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#231101

> I need a ~10 inches touchscreen, and I want a good-ish resolution
> (≥1600).

Sounds like this might prove to be the main criteria.

> And I need it to be not expensive, because that's for taking in
> transports daily and sometimes leaving unsupervised in
> classrooms. Apart from that, having the wifi and sound controllers
> supported by standard Debian kernels would be a significant progress,
> and speed or memory are no issue.

These all suggest you might want to go with a second hand or
refurbished machine.

> Do you have any good recommendation with these conditions?

Sorry,


        Stefan

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#231103

On Mon, Jan 25, 2021 at 09:52:52AM -0500, Stefan Monnier wrote:
> > I need a ~10 inches touchscreen, and I want a good-ish resolution
> > (≥1600).
> 
> Sounds like this might prove to be the main criteria.
> 
> > And I need it to be not expensive, because that's for taking in
> > transports daily and sometimes leaving unsupervised in
> > classrooms. Apart from that, having the wifi and sound controllers
> > supported by standard Debian kernels would be a significant progress,
> > and speed or memory are no issue.
> 
> These all suggest you might want to go with a second hand or
> refurbished machine.
> 
> > Do you have any good recommendation with these conditions?
> 
> Sorry,
> 
Second hand Lenovo Yoga - but one of the ones with a decent hinge and 
a decent amount of memory?

All best

Andy C

> 
>         Stefan
> 

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#231104

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Andrew M.A. Cater (12021-01-25):
> > These all suggest you might want to go with a second hand or
> > refurbished machine.

> Second hand Lenovo Yoga - but one of the ones with a decent hinge and 
> a decent amount of memory?

Thanks for the suggestion, but second-hand is definitely something I do
not want. And I will almost certainly not buy Lenovo again.

Regards,

-- 
  Nicolas George

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#231108

On Mon, Jan 25, 2021 at 04:20:16PM +0100, Nicolas George wrote:
> Andrew M.A. Cater (12021-01-25):
> > > These all suggest you might want to go with a second hand or
> > > refurbished machine.
> 
> > Second hand Lenovo Yoga - but one of the ones with a decent hinge and 
> > a decent amount of memory?
> 
> Thanks for the suggestion, but second-hand is definitely something I do
> not want. And I will almost certainly not buy Lenovo again.
> 
> Regards,
> 
> -- 
>   Nicolas George

10" no longer seems to exist: Dells/Asus/Lenovo seem to start at 12.5 / 
13 inch. 11.6" seems to be Chromebooks.

Secondhand seems to be the only way you'll find something. The Lenovo X131
I have next to me lasted for several years until the screen hinge gave out.

Small laptops are at a premium if you can find them - even Chromebooks are
now silly prices.

The Pinebooks are seriously low-priced but limited.- right size but no 
touchscreen but priced so that if you were to lose one you wouldn't be too sad:
Pinebook / Pinebook Pro?

All the best

Andy C.

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#231109

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Andrew M.A. Cater (12021-01-25):
> 10" no longer seems to exist: Dells/Asus/Lenovo seem to start at 12.5 / 
> 13 inch. 11.6" seems to be Chromebooks.

Then I will take larger than 10".

> Secondhand seems to be the only way you'll find something. The Lenovo X131
> I have next to me lasted for several years until the screen hinge gave out.

As I said, I do not want second-hand, and Lenovo has lost my trust.

> Small laptops are at a premium if you can find them - even Chromebooks are
> now silly prices.

Do you have actual models in mind? I can read catalogs too.

> The Pinebooks are seriously low-priced but limited.- right size but no 
> touchscreen but priced so that if you were to lose one you wouldn't be too sad:
> Pinebook / Pinebook Pro?

Unfortunately, the touchscreen is not optional, I need it.

Regards,

-- 
  Nicolas George

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#231112

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I am considering the Acer TravelMate Spin B3.

Does anybody here have experience with this exact model? Or, if not,
with a similar enough model?

https://www.acer.com/ac/en/US/content/professional-model/NX.VN2AA.001

Regards,

-- 
  Nicolas George

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#231116

On Mon, Jan 25, 2021 at 05:24:34PM +0100, Nicolas George wrote:
> Andrew M.A. Cater (12021-01-25):
> > 10" no longer seems to exist: Dells/Asus/Lenovo seem to start at 12.5 / 
> > 13 inch. 11.6" seems to be Chromebooks.
> 
> Then I will take larger than 10".
> 
> > Secondhand seems to be the only way you'll find something. The Lenovo X131
> > I have next to me lasted for several years until the screen hinge gave out.
> 
> As I said, I do not want second-hand, and Lenovo has lost my trust.
> 
> > Small laptops are at a premium if you can find them - even Chromebooks are
> > now silly prices.
> 
> Do you have actual models in mind? I can read catalogs too.
> 

I cheated to see what sort of things were current with 
https://www.laptopsdirect.co.uk/st/touchscreen-11-to-13-inch-laptops :16 models
[12 inch and under, new and refurbished, touchscreen]


> > The Pinebooks are seriously low-priced but limited.- right size but no 
> > touchscreen but priced so that if you were to lose one you wouldn't be too sad:
> > Pinebook / Pinebook Pro?
> 
> Unfortunately, the touchscreen is not optional, I need it.
> 
> Regards,
> 
> -- 
>   Nicolas George

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#231131

Nicolas George wrote:

> As I said, I do not want second-hand, and Lenovo has lost my trust.

Meanwhile I guess all of them are maid in China.

What I recommend (even second hand) but let it be Business Class Notebook.
I use Latitude from Dell and  Probook by HP.
The Latitudes I had 34xx - was a crap, but 54xx is great
The ProBook is 645 G1 also great.

If I look back, I have never had a customer grade crap in my hands for the
past 15+y. I never had an issue with that. In the same time I had many
broken customer grade crap in my hands.

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#231139

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deloptes (12021-01-25):
> Meanwhile I guess all of them are maid in China.

I do not have a fetish for maids.

> What I recommend (even second hand) but let it be Business Class Notebook.
> I use Latitude from Dell and  Probook by HP.
> The Latitudes I had 34xx - was a crap, but 54xx is great

This does not look compatible with "I need it to be not expensive,
because that's for taking in transports daily and sometimes leaving
unsupervised in classrooms".

> The ProBook is 645 G1 also great.

No touchscreen.

But thanks.

Regards,

-- 
  Nicolas George

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#231158

Nicolas George wrote:

> This does not look compatible with "I need it to be not expensive,
> because that's for taking in transports daily and sometimes leaving
> unsupervised in classrooms".
> 

It is good quality for the money - what means expensive?! My advise is buy
good hardware - and it is usually the business line.
The Dell 5440 was around US$900,- and I considered it cheep (incl. docking
station in 2016)

>> The ProBook is 645 G1 also great.
> 
> No touchscreen.

Latitude 3190 2in1 starts at ~600,- (589,00 €) with touch screen.
Similar for HP (Elitebook although I liked the ProBook better).

But I can't say if these are good - just guess because they are labeled
business.

I know Dell XPS series were also good.

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#231160

On 1/25/21 3:29 PM, deloptes wrote:
> Nicolas George wrote:
>
>> This does not look compatible with "I need it to be not expensive,
>> because that's for taking in transports daily and sometimes leaving
>> unsupervised in classrooms".
>>
> It is good quality for the money - what means expensive?! My advise is buy
> good hardware - and it is usually the business line.
> The Dell 5440 was around US$900,- and I considered it cheep (incl. docking
> station in 2016)
>
>>> The ProBook is 645 G1 also great.
>> No touchscreen.
> Latitude 3190 2in1 starts at ~600,- (589,00 €) with touch screen.
> Similar for HP (Elitebook although I liked the ProBook better).
we have several HP 820 Elitebooks. like a rock.
10" but no touch screen. I think they sold for +/- $1000 when new.
all of these were eBay finds, probably paid less than $250 each 4 or 5 
years ago.
>
> But I can't say if these are good - just guess because they are labeled
> business.
>
> I know Dell XPS series were also good.
>
>

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#231167

Peter Ehlert wrote:

> we have several HP 820 Elitebooks. like a rock.
> 10" but no touch screen. I think they sold for +/- $1000 when new.
> all of these were eBay finds, probably paid less than $250 each 4 or 5
> years ago.

Yes I also tend to buy used (better refurbished) when I know the make and
model are really good quality.

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#231165

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On Lu, 25 ian 21, 16:20:16, Nicolas George wrote:
> Andrew M.A. Cater (12021-01-25):
> > > These all suggest you might want to go with a second hand or
> > > refurbished machine.
> 
> > Second hand Lenovo Yoga - but one of the ones with a decent hinge and 
> > a decent amount of memory?
> 
> Thanks for the suggestion, but second-hand is definitely something I do
> not want. And I will almost certainly not buy Lenovo again.

There is a *big* difference between the "regular" Lenovo laptops and the 
ThinkPad series. Even the budget ThinkPad series generally have good 
build quality.

Kind regards,
Andrei
-- 
http://wiki.debian.org/FAQsFromDebianUser

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#231492

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Nicolas George (12021-01-25):
> I'll have to retire my current netbook soon. It was a Lenovo Miix
> 3-1030 from 2015; it has a good screen but otherwise is complete crap,
> with non-standard unsupported hardware and other drawbacks.
> 
> I need a ~10 inches touchscreen, and I want a good-ish resolution
> (≥1600). And I need it to be not expensive, because that's for taking in
> transports daily and sometimes leaving unsupervised in classrooms. Apart
> from that, having the wifi and sound controllers supported by standard
> Debian kernels would be a significant progress, and speed or memory are
> no issue. I don't care if the keyboard can be removed to leave a tablet.

I have chosen an Acer TravelMate Spin B3, it is la little more expensive
than my comfort zone for this use, but not that much, and it seems
satisfactory. Network, video, touchscreen and audio work out of the box.
I have not tested suspend or hibernation, as I do not use them.

There is sometimes a strange glitch on the display, it seems to happen
when the system was hot-rebooted. There is also a strange battery drain,
for which I will start a new thread.

Regards,

-- 
  Nicolas George

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#231497

On Mon, 8 Feb 2021 10:57:11 +0100
Nicolas George <george@nsup.org> wrote:

> Nicolas George (12021-01-25):
> > I'll have to retire my current netbook soon. It was a Lenovo Miix
> > 3-1030 from 2015; it has a good screen but otherwise is complete
> > crap, with non-standard unsupported hardware and other drawbacks.
> > 
> > I need a ~10 inches touchscreen, and I want a good-ish resolution
> > (≥1600). And I need it to be not expensive, because that's for
> > taking in transports daily and sometimes leaving unsupervised in
> > classrooms. Apart from that, having the wifi and sound controllers
> > supported by standard Debian kernels would be a significant
> > progress, and speed or memory are no issue. I don't care if the
> > keyboard can be removed to leave a tablet.  
> 
> I have chosen an Acer TravelMate Spin B3, it is la little more
> expensive than my comfort zone for this use, but not that much, and
> it seems satisfactory. Network, video, touchscreen and audio work out
> of the box. I have not tested suspend or hibernation, as I do not use
> them.

Probably good. I've had two netbooks and a laptop by Acer, and they
have all been good with Linux. Mostly, anyway. I've never used
hibernate, and suspend has a poor record. It generally works on stable,
it works on my current netbook (buster), apart from Samba sometimes
needing about five minutes to find the network shares. Suspend is
currently working on my sid desktop, which is an unusual state of
affairs. I gave up fixing it years ago, as suspend seems far more prone
to software rot than any other subsystem.



-- 
Joe

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#231500

Am Montag, 8. Februar 2021, 12:29:25 CET schrieb Joe:
Hi,

well IMHO it depends, what you are going to do with it.

As you might know, those netbooks are not the fastest ones, but maybe boot 
time is not so important, as you can use suspend-to-ram.

For me personally there are some things important for me, as I am using it for 
network troubleshooting on the road. So these things are important for me:

1. Battery time. My EEEPC has 8 hours, which is enough for a single day.

2. MUST run linux. Mine is running Debian/testing for normal work.

3. MUST be able, to boot livefile systems from an sd-card (NOT USB-Stick). I 
have about 24 different livefiles bootable from sd-card, each for special 
purposes. SD-Card, because an USB-Stick can be broken, if someone does not pay 
attention.

4. MUST have an Atheros wireless card. These are able to switch into monitor 
mode and can do other things, which other wireless cards are not be able to 
do.

5. Size should not be greater than 10 inch, because at most customers there is 
often not much space for bigger notebooks on the desktop.

6. Every hardware, especially graphics card and touchpad should be supported 
by linux. Sound should do also.

7. Multimedia should work smoothly on it. My EEEPC, which is 1,666GHz and with 
an Intel I945 graphic chip, is running videos without flickering when using 
smplayer. VLC does not work well, as acceleration is needed and since there is 
no more OpenGL-driver since some years, VLC has gone slow. (Yes, I know, I 945 
does not support opengl, but there was a software solution some years ago, 
which was working very well. This is sadly no more supported and not 
compatible to actual xorg.)

8. MUST have a real and exchangable harddrive (SATA) built in, so that you can 
exchange it with a bigger one. Mine was exchanged now the second time, first 
from SATA to SSD, now to another SSD as the former one was defective.

So, might be some more points, but I hope this helps.

Best regards

Hans 

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#231502

On Mon, Feb 08, 2021 at 12:47:41PM +0100, Hans wrote:
> Am Montag, 8. Februar 2021, 12:29:25 CET schrieb Joe:
> Hi,
> 
> well IMHO it depends, what you are going to do with it.
> 
> As you might know, those netbooks are not the fastest ones, but maybe boot 
> time is not so important, as you can use suspend-to-ram.

I have had an HP stream for several years - works well for me. I run Linux Mint
on it so it should run Debian. 11.6" screen, I can get 6+ hours out of a full
charge. It only has 2 GB RAM that is not upgradable, pity:

https://www.argos.co.uk/product/7463248

-- 
Alain Williams
Linux/GNU Consultant - Mail systems, Web sites, Networking, Programmer, IT Lecturer.
+44 (0) 787 668 0256  https://www.phcomp.co.uk/
Parliament Hill Computers Ltd. Registration Information: https://www.phcomp.co.uk/Contact.html
#include <std_disclaimer.h>

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