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sharing a network connection from debian to non-debian

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  sharing a network connection from debian to non-debian Dan Hitt <dan.hitt@gmail.com> - 2021-01-16 06:10 +0100
    Re: sharing a network connection from debian to non-debian john doe <johndoe65534@mail.com> - 2021-01-16 07:30 +0100
      Re: sharing a network connection from debian to non-debian Doug McGarrett <dmcgarrett@optonline.net> - 2021-01-16 07:50 +0100
    Re: sharing a network connection from debian to non-debian Andrei POPESCU <andreimpopescu@gmail.com> - 2021-01-16 09:00 +0100
      Re: sharing a network connection from debian to non-debian Dan Hitt <dan.hitt@gmail.com> - 2021-01-16 19:30 +0100
        Re: sharing a network connection from debian to non-debian rhkramer@gmail.com - 2021-01-16 20:50 +0100
        Re: sharing a network connection from debian to non-debian Andrei POPESCU <andreimpopescu@gmail.com> - 2021-01-17 08:30 +0100
          Re: sharing a network connection from debian to non-debian john doe <johndoe65534@mail.com> - 2021-01-17 10:30 +0100
          Re: sharing a network connection from debian to non-debian Celejar <celejar@gmail.com> - 2021-01-17 16:00 +0100
        Re: sharing a network connection from debian to non-debian David Christensen <dpchrist@holgerdanske.com> - 2021-01-18 08:50 +0100
          Re: sharing a network connection from debian to non-debian Dan Hitt <dan.hitt@gmail.com> - 2021-01-19 01:50 +0100
            Re: sharing a network connection from debian to non-debian john doe <johndoe65534@mail.com> - 2021-01-19 07:10 +0100
            Re: sharing a network connection from debian to non-debian David Christensen <dpchrist@holgerdanske.com> - 2021-01-19 20:50 +0100
        Re: sharing a network connection from debian to non-debian Andrei POPESCU <andreimpopescu@gmail.com> - 2021-01-24 18:20 +0100
          Re: sharing a network connection from debian to non-debian Dan Hitt <dan.hitt@gmail.com> - 2021-01-24 23:10 +0100
            Re: sharing a network connection from debian to non-debian Dan Hitt <dan.hitt@gmail.com> - 2021-01-25 04:00 +0100
              Re: sharing a network connection from debian to non-debian Andrei POPESCU <andreimpopescu@gmail.com> - 2021-01-25 07:20 +0100
                Re: sharing a network connection from debian to non-debian Andrei POPESCU <andreimpopescu@gmail.com> - 2021-01-25 07:20 +0100
            Re: sharing a network connection from debian to non-debian Andrei POPESCU <andreimpopescu@gmail.com> - 2021-01-25 07:10 +0100
              Re: sharing a network connection from debian to non-debian Joe <joe@jretrading.com> - 2021-01-25 10:40 +0100
                Re: sharing a network connection from debian to non-debian Andrei POPESCU <andreimpopescu@gmail.com> - 2021-01-25 20:10 +0100
              Re: sharing a network connection from debian to non-debian Dan Hitt <dan.hitt@gmail.com> - 2021-01-26 03:50 +0100
    Re: sharing a network connection from debian to non-debian David Christensen <dpchrist@holgerdanske.com> - 2021-01-16 11:10 +0100
      Re: sharing a network connection from debian to non-debian rhkramer@gmail.com - 2021-01-16 15:30 +0100
    Re: sharing a network connection from debian to non-debian Michael Howard <mike@dewberryfields.co.uk> - 2021-01-16 16:00 +0100
    Re: sharing a network connection from debian to non-debian elvis <elvis@dogonfire.com> - 2021-01-19 09:20 +0100

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#230705 — sharing a network connection from debian to non-debian

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In 2016, i had a computer with mint on it (which is a form of ubuntu), and
it was connected to an internet modem.  There was a super simple gui on it
that i could use to share that connection with some older hardware that
were not directly connected to the internet modem.  (They were not
connected to the internet modem because for whatever reason, directly
connecting them made them very unstable and prone to crash.)  But,
nevertheless, the old hardware could use the mint box with no configuration
on my part, and get out to the internet through it.

Now, as it happens, i'm planning on upgrading that mint box to debian.

In preparation for that, i'm trying to share the internet with them using
another box, which has debian on it, and which is connected to the internet
modem.  The debian box has some address like 192.168.*.* on the internet
modem network, and an address like 10.*.*.* connected to the old hardware,
and the two networks have no direct connection, they just both hook up to
my debian machine (one on the motherboard's ethernet, and one on a
usb/ethernet device).

For the old hardware, i can specify the address, a gateway, and a host for
dns (all done by ip).  I would choose the ip of the debian box for both the
gateway and the dns, and i'd take the ip address of the old hardware to
just be something unused (no need to run dhcpd on the debian box, i think).

So i just need to know what to do on the debian box so that it can field
requests to get ips from host names on the internet, and forward packets to
the internet modem.  Hopefully, it will be some simple tool like
nm-connection-editor, but maybe it has to be a series of commands.  If it
is a series of commands, what are they?

TIA for any info!

dan

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#230706

On 1/16/2021 6:02 AM, Dan Hitt wrote:
> In 2016, i had a computer with mint on it (which is a form of ubuntu), and
> it was connected to an internet modem.  There was a super simple gui on it
> that i could use to share that connection with some older hardware that
> were not directly connected to the internet modem.  (They were not
> connected to the internet modem because for whatever reason, directly
> connecting them made them very unstable and prone to crash.)  But,
> nevertheless, the old hardware could use the mint box with no configuration
> on my part, and get out to the internet through it.
>

If you could share your internet connection to multiple devices, the
internet modem you are refering to is probably a router with integrated
modem.

Okay, I'm nitpicking here but this might be useful for the below.

> Now, as it happens, i'm planning on upgrading that mint box to debian.
>

I would suggest reinstalling Debian from scratch.

> In preparation for that, i'm trying to share the internet with them using
> another box, which has debian on it, and which is connected to the internet
> modem.  The debian box has some address like 192.168.*.* on the internet
> modem network, and an address like 10.*.*.* connected to the old hardware,
> and the two networks have no direct connection, they just both hook up to
> my debian machine (one on the motherboard's ethernet, and one on a
> usb/ethernet device).
>
> For the old hardware, i can specify the address, a gateway, and a host for
> dns (all done by ip).  I would choose the ip of the debian box for both the
> gateway and the dns, and i'd take the ip address of the old hardware to
> just be something unused (no need to run dhcpd on the debian box, i think).
>

You can certainly use static addressing Dnsmasq has the advantage of
conbining a DHCP and DNS server.
So I would say using Dnsmasq instead of Dhcpd and Bind will be way
easyier if you want to go with dinamic addressing

> So i just need to know what to do on the debian box so that it can field
> requests to get ips from host names on the internet, and forward packets to
> the internet modem.  Hopefully, it will be some simple tool like
> nm-connection-editor, but maybe it has to be a series of commands.  If it
> is a series of commands, what are they?
>

It looks like you are using a desktop environment, you might be  heading
for trouble trying to mix GUI tools and serving internet connection to
clients.

What you need on that Debian box is to route the packages from your
internal network to your external network (1, might be what you want).


Unless you want to learn and play with it, I would suggest you, if you
can afford,  to buy a ''router' with no built-in modem that you would
plug behind your ISP modem.


1)  https://fedoramagazine.org/internet-connection-sharing-networkmanager/

--
John Doe

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#230707

On 1/16/21 1:29 AM, john doe wrote:
> On 1/16/2021 6:02 AM, Dan Hitt wrote:
>> In 2016, i had a computer with mint on it (which is a form of 
>> ubuntu), and
>> it was connected to an internet modem.  There was a super simple gui 
>> on it
>> that i could use to share that connection with some older hardware that
>> were not directly connected to the internet modem.  (They were not
>> connected to the internet modem because for whatever reason, directly
>> connecting them made them very unstable and prone to crash.) But,
>> nevertheless, the old hardware could use the mint box with no 
>> configuration
>> on my part, and get out to the internet through it.
>>
>
> If you could share your internet connection to multiple devices, the
> internet modem you are refering to is probably a router with integrated
> modem.
>
> Okay, I'm nitpicking here but this might be useful for the below.
>
>> Now, as it happens, i'm planning on upgrading that mint box to debian.
>>
>
> I would suggest reinstalling Debian from scratch.
>
>> In preparation for that, i'm trying to share the internet with them 
>> using
>> another box, which has debian on it, and which is connected to the 
>> internet
>> modem.  The debian box has some address like 192.168.*.* on the internet
>> modem network, and an address like 10.*.*.* connected to the old 
>> hardware,
>> and the two networks have no direct connection, they just both hook 
>> up to
>> my debian machine (one on the motherboard's ethernet, and one on a
>> usb/ethernet device).
>>
>> For the old hardware, i can specify the address, a gateway, and a 
>> host for
>> dns (all done by ip).  I would choose the ip of the debian box for 
>> both the
>> gateway and the dns, and i'd take the ip address of the old hardware to
>> just be something unused (no need to run dhcpd on the debian box, i 
>> think).
>>
>
> You can certainly use static addressing Dnsmasq has the advantage of
> conbining a DHCP and DNS server.
> So I would say using Dnsmasq instead of Dhcpd and Bind will be way
> easyier if you want to go with dinamic addressing
>
>> So i just need to know what to do on the debian box so that it can field
>> requests to get ips from host names on the internet, and forward 
>> packets to
>> the internet modem.  Hopefully, it will be some simple tool like
>> nm-connection-editor, but maybe it has to be a series of commands.  
>> If it
>> is a series of commands, what are they?
>>
>
> It looks like you are using a desktop environment, you might be heading
> for trouble trying to mix GUI tools and serving internet connection to
> clients.
>
> What you need on that Debian box is to route the packages from your
> internal network to your external network (1, might be what you want).
>
>
> Unless you want to learn and play with it, I would suggest you, if you
> can afford,  to buy a ''router' with no built-in modem that you would
> plug behind your ISP modem.
And you should look for a router with more than four output ports--
there are a couple of such--so that when you want to add a printer or two
and maybe hook a laptop into your network and possibly a separate
scanner--you get the idea. . . .
--doug
>
>
> 1) https://fedoramagazine.org/internet-connection-sharing-networkmanager/
>
> -- 
> John Doe
>

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#230709

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On Vi, 15 ian 21, 21:02:58, Dan Hitt wrote:
> 
> So i just need to know what to do on the debian box so that it can field
> requests to get ips from host names on the internet, and forward packets to
> the internet modem.  Hopefully, it will be some simple tool like
> nm-connection-editor, but maybe it has to be a series of commands.  If it
> is a series of commands, what are they?

In nm-connection-editor select the connection with the other system 
(*not* to the internet) and set the Method to "Shared to other 
computers" in the IPv4 tab (and IPv6 if you want so).

Unfortunately the wording of the option is counterintuitive, it should 
probably be something like "allow other computers on this connection to 
use this computer's internet connection" (whichever that might be).

Kind regards,
Andrei
-- 
http://wiki.debian.org/FAQsFromDebianUser

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#230717

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On Fri, Jan 15, 2021 at 11:57 PM Andrei POPESCU <andreimpopescu@gmail.com>
wrote:

> On Vi, 15 ian 21, 21:02:58, Dan Hitt wrote:
> >
> > So i just need to know what to do on the debian box so that it can field
> > requests to get ips from host names on the internet, and forward packets
> to
> > the internet modem.  Hopefully, it will be some simple tool like
> > nm-connection-editor, but maybe it has to be a series of commands.  If it
> > is a series of commands, what are they?
>
> In nm-connection-editor select the connection with the other system
> (*not* to the internet) and set the Method to "Shared to other
> computers" in the IPv4 tab (and IPv6 if you want so).
>
> Unfortunately the wording of the option is counterintuitive, it should
> probably be something like "allow other computers on this connection to
> use this computer's internet connection" (whichever that might be).
>


Thanks Andrei for your message.  Thanks everybody else also---i'm still
studying all your replies, and i have some questions about them (further
below).

Regarding Andrei's suggestion of using nm-connection-editor, and using
"Shared to other computers", i saw that last night, and tried using it.  It
looked similar to the gui that i had on my old mint (ubuntu) machine.

I made sure that the 'Ethernet' tab had the mac addr of the right device
--- it's a usb/ethernet cable, and has a long name, so it would be hard to
confuse it with enp2s0 (the connection to the 'internet-modem').

In the 'IPv4 Settings' tab, the method i have selected is 'Shared to other
computers'.  There's a text area below, marked 'Address (optional)'.

In that optional area i put the ip address of my debian machine, with '24'
for the netmask.  The ip address for my debian machine, that i want to use
for this LAN, is consistent with what 'ip addr show' displays.  It's kind
of unclear what to write for a gateway --- should i put in the address of
my debian box, or the address of the internet modem (router)?  Anyhow, i
tried them both, and neither one worked.

I also tried just deleting the 'Address (optional)' section, since it says
it is optional.  But this also had no effect.

I also added an extra ip address to the usb/ethernet link on my debian
machine, using
       sudo ip addr add 10.X.Y.Z/24  dev enx**********
and this becomes instantly visible to the other system.   So i think the
other system is properly accessing my debian system.

So, thanks for any clarification anybody has to offer on the proper usage
of nm-connection-editor.

(One point i'm a little bit curious about is how nm-connection-editor can
work at all, because i'm running it as an unprivileged user, and these
network things like sudo.  Maybe there's a setuid bit somewhere or
something, but the software certainly doesn't complain that it doesn't have
root privs.)

Now, regarding all the other suggestions, i intend to work through each of
them, because i'm not too particular.

But i should clarify these points:
(1) Yes, my 'internet-modem' is a router.  But it's a real black-box router
that i cannot see into.
(2) Yes, it has 4 ports.  That's not an issue, because i can and have
attached switches to it.  However, i cannot attach my ancient hardware to
it because it locks them up for whatever reason.  But for several years i
did use my mint (ubuntu) box to stand between the internet-modem-router and
my ancient hardware.  My ancient hardware just cannot share a physical
ethernet with my internet-modem-router (including being on the same switch
as it).
(3) Regarding getting another router to sit between the internet-modem and
my ancient hardware: i wouldn't mind doing that at all, in fact, that's
what i'm trying to do with my debian box :), to get it to act as a router.
But i have tons of visibility into my debian system, including compiling
special purpose software if necessary, but if i just get a dedicated
black-box router, how could i manage it?

Nevertheless, i'm quite willing to get a second router.

Mick -- you mentioned a smallish PC for 20 pounds (maybe 40 dollars?) which
would have 2 network cards --- for that price i wouldn't mind doing it, but
that seems awfully cheap.  Is there a reason for network cards as opposed
to just ethernet over usb?  I don't need high performance.  Anyhow thanks.

John --- when i rebuild the mint box, i plan to make a new partition on it
for the debian system, so it will be done from scratch.  And thanks for the
suggestion of using dnsmasq.  If i cannot manage to make do with
nm-connection-editor i hope to try it out (and/or shorewall).

Doug --- if you have suggestions for a router, please let me know, and
thanks.

David --- thanks for all the information.  The UNIfi system looks good and
is not very expensive.  I would have to investigate it carefully though,
because my ancient hardware is very sensitive to something about the
electrical environment of the network (otherwise i'd just hook it into my
internet-modem-router).

RH --- thanks for the information about Ubiquiti, i will have to
investigate it.  I have to be careful with new hardware connected to the
ancient stuff (as with the UNIfi system).

Mike --- thanks for the suggestion of using shorewall.  I plan to try out
shorewall and/or dnsmasq if i cannot make Andrei's suggestion work.

Thanks again everybody!

dan



> Kind regards,
> Andrei
> --
> http://wiki.debian.org/FAQsFromDebianUser
>

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#230719

On Saturday, January 16, 2021 01:28:43 PM Dan Hitt wrote:
> On Fri, Jan 15, 2021 at 11:57 PM Andrei POPESCU <andreimpopescu@gmail.com>
> RH --- thanks for the information about Ubiquiti, i will have to
> investigate it.  I have to be careful with new hardware connected to the
> ancient stuff (as with the UNIfi system).

You're welcome, but I would add two things:

   * I missed the point about your old hardware not working with other routers 
that you've tried -- if that is the case, the Ubiquiti might not help 
(although there is some visibility into it -- you can log into it and check 
and change some settings -- I'm not even sure of all of them

   * I noticed your mention of a "black box" router -- I would point out that 
there is (was?) a company named Black Box that makes devices related to 
networking -- if they sold a router, I rather strongly suspect you could log 
into it and check and change at least some settings

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#230732

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On Sb, 16 ian 21, 10:28:43, Dan Hitt wrote:
> 
> I made sure that the 'Ethernet' tab had the mac addr of the right device
> --- it's a usb/ethernet cable, and has a long name, so it would be hard to
> confuse it with enp2s0 (the connection to the 'internet-modem').
> 
> In the 'IPv4 Settings' tab, the method i have selected is 'Shared to other
> computers'.  There's a text area below, marked 'Address (optional)'.
> 
> In that optional area i put the ip address of my debian machine, with '24'
> for the netmask.  The ip address for my debian machine, that i want to use
> for this LAN, is consistent with what 'ip addr show' displays.  It's kind
> of unclear what to write for a gateway --- should i put in the address of
> my debian box, or the address of the internet modem (router)?  Anyhow, i
> tried them both, and neither one worked.

It's slightly unclear what address you used here, but as per your OP it 
should be in your "internal" network 10.*.*.*.

The gateway must be left blank. The Debian system becomes the gateway 
for the other computers. Debian's gateway is the modem and is configured 
in the other connection (to the modem).
 
> I also tried just deleting the 'Address (optional)' section, since it says
> it is optional.  But this also had no effect.
> 
> I also added an extra ip address to the usb/ethernet link on my debian
> machine, using
>        sudo ip addr add 10.X.Y.Z/24  dev enx**********
> and this becomes instantly visible to the other system.   So i think the
> other system is properly accessing my debian system.

Looks like it, indeed.

> So, thanks for any clarification anybody has to offer on the proper usage
> of nm-connection-editor.

As far as I recall (it's been a while) it was as easy as setting the 
Shared... in nm-connection-editor. Network Manager should then take care 
to enable forwarding in the kernel and run a DHCP/DNS caching server 
(probably dnsmasq) on that interface.

How are the other boxes configured? They should either be configured 
with DHCP or with static addresses in the same 10.*.*.* network as the 
Debian box (mind the netmask!) and Debian's 10.*.*.* IP address as 
gateway and DNS server.

It might help to show exactly what the network settings are for the 
"internal" connection on Debian and on the other boxes.

If it still won't work I can try to replicate your setup later.

> (2) Yes, it has 4 ports.  That's not an issue, because i can and have
> attached switches to it.  However, i cannot attach my ancient hardware to
> it because it locks them up for whatever reason.

Care to elaborate on this? My understanding is that your other boxes 
just freeze, though this unusual just from some network incompatibility.

Older Debian versions had some issues (DNS?) with crappy routers. As far 
as I recall turning IPv6 off helped.

> (3) Regarding getting another router to sit between the internet-modem and
> my ancient hardware: i wouldn't mind doing that at all, in fact, that's
> what i'm trying to do with my debian box :), to get it to act as a router.
> But i have tons of visibility into my debian system, including compiling
> special purpose software if necessary, but if i just get a dedicated
> black-box router, how could i manage it?
 
Look for a router supported by OpenWrt. They are typically more 
expensive, but could very well be worth the investment in the long run, 
especially if it would work also with your older boxes.

For a low power (processing as well as consumption) solution supported 
by Debian something like the PINE A64 from Pine64.org with an additional 
USB network adapter would be sufficient, though the network speed would 
be somewhat limited (the PINE A64+ has a Gigabit adapter, but only 
USB2).

For 1Gbit/s you would need something like the ROCK64 (has Gigabit 
ethernet and USB3 port). I don't have first hand experience with it, but 
it is supported by the bullseye Debian Installer, which is a very good 
start. If you are interested in it you should look into the status of 
support in Linux mainline (though I expect it to be good enough, 
possibly even better than for the PINE A64).

On the other hand these devices could be faster than your old boxes 
while using only a fraction of the power. Are you sure those old boxes 
are worth keeping around?

Kind regards,
Andrei
-- 
http://wiki.debian.org/FAQsFromDebianUser

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#230737

On 1/17/2021 8:25 AM, Andrei POPESCU wrote:
> On Sb, 16 ian 21, 10:28:43, Dan Hitt wrote:
>>
>> I made sure that the 'Ethernet' tab had the mac addr of the right device
>> --- it's a usb/ethernet cable, and has a long name, so it would be hard to
>> confuse it with enp2s0 (the connection to the 'internet-modem').
>>
>> In the 'IPv4 Settings' tab, the method i have selected is 'Shared to other
>> computers'.  There's a text area below, marked 'Address (optional)'.
>>
>> In that optional area i put the ip address of my debian machine, with '24'
>> for the netmask.  The ip address for my debian machine, that i want to use
>> for this LAN, is consistent with what 'ip addr show' displays.  It's kind
>> of unclear what to write for a gateway --- should i put in the address of
>> my debian box, or the address of the internet modem (router)?  Anyhow, i
>> tried them both, and neither one worked.
>

As the server has already internet and working fine, you don't have to
do anything on the server.

>> I also tried just deleting the 'Address (optional)' section, since it says
>> it is optional.  But this also had no effect.
>>
>> I also added an extra ip address to the usb/ethernet link on my debian
>> machine, using
>>         sudo ip addr add 10.X.Y.Z/24  dev enx**********
>> and this becomes instantly visible to the other system.   So i think the
>> other system is properly accessing my debian system.
>
> Looks like it, indeed.
>

Note that this change is not permanent, thus won't be save while rebooting.

>> So, thanks for any clarification anybody has to offer on the proper usage
>> of nm-connection-editor.
>
> As far as I recall (it's been a while) it was as easy as setting the
> Shared... in nm-connection-editor. Network Manager should then take care
> to enable forwarding in the kernel and run a DHCP/DNS caching server
> (probably dnsmasq) on that interface.
>
> How are the other boxes configured? They should either be configured
> with DHCP or with static addresses in the same 10.*.*.* network as the
> Debian box (mind the netmask!) and Debian's 10.*.*.* IP address as
> gateway and DNS server.
>
> It might help to show exactly what the network settings are for the
> "internal" connection on Debian and on the other boxes.
>

In general, if you want to assign one static address per client, the
client would have to use one IP address from the IP subnet used on the
server (10...) in your case).
The gateway and the DNS address would be pointing to the ip of the server.

So in your case something like:
- Server: IP: 10.0.0.1, mask: 255.255.255.0 (CIDR: /24)
- Client1: IP: 10.0.0.2, mask: 255.255.255.0, GW: 10.0.0.1, DNS: 10.0.0.1
- Client2: IP: 10.0.0.3, mask: 255.255.255.0, GW: 10.0.0.1, DNS: 10.0.0.1

Regarding buying a new router, picking one on which you can change the
stock firmware to OpenWrt or alike give you the flexibility of having a
more tweakable router.
One advantage of Dd-Wrt/Tomato or alike is that it is way easier to
reset to factory default incase you screw up! :)

--
John Doe

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#230750

On Sun, 17 Jan 2021 09:25:31 +0200
Andrei POPESCU <andreimpopescu@gmail.com> wrote:

...

> Look for a router supported by OpenWrt. They are typically more 
> expensive, but could very well be worth the investment in the long run, 
> especially if it would work also with your older boxes.

You might be surprised at how affordable OpenWrt compatible gear can
be. Look at brands like GL.iNet - they sell units with OpenWrt
installed for as little as ~$20 (802.11n) / ~$40 (low-end 802.11ac).

The big problem with OpenWrt, as I was just reminded while searching
for easily accesible information about budget OpenWrt routers, is that
there's no reliable, comprehensive, up-to-date documentation on
currently available models and their OpenWrt compatibility, and so
trying to to find the best unit to purchase for ones needs / budget
can mean wading through forum threads often full of outdated
information (or just asking your own question on the forums).

FWIW, I've been using a TP-Link AC2600 with OpenWrt for years, and I've
been pretty satisfied with it.

Celejar

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#230775

On 2021-01-16 10:28, Dan Hitt wrote:

> Regarding Andrei's suggestion of using nm-connection-editor, ...


GUI tools can be nice when you have an idea of what they are doing 
"under the hood".  With networking, multiple hoods are involved and many 
are inaccessible (notably your ISP and the Internet).


I recommend that you start by buying and reading "Networking for Systems 
Administrators" by Lucas:

https://mwl.io/nonfiction/networking#n4sa


> David --- thanks for all the information.  The UNIfi system looks
> good and is not very expensive.I would have to investigate it
> carefully though, because my ancient hardware is very sensitive to
> something about the electrical environment of the network (otherwise
> i'd just hook it into my internet-modem-router).


Unless your hardware is broken, the most likely cause of network 
problems is misconfiguration.  Given dozens settings or more per device, 
the number of combinations across even a small network grows 
astronomically.  The most direct path to a working configuration on an 
X86 PC is to do a fresh install of Debian.  I would remove the drives in 
a problem PC, install a blank drive, do fresh install of Debian 9, and 
see if that works.


David

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#230819

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On Sun, Jan 17, 2021 at 11:41 PM David Christensen <
dpchrist@holgerdanske.com> wrote:

> On 2021-01-16 10:28, Dan Hitt wrote:
>
> > Regarding Andrei's suggestion of using nm-connection-editor, ...
>
>
> GUI tools can be nice when you have an idea of what they are doing
> "under the hood".  With networking, multiple hoods are involved and many
> are inaccessible (notably your ISP and the Internet).
>
>
> I recommend that you start by buying and reading "Networking for Systems
> Administrators" by Lucas:
>
> https://mwl.io/nonfiction/networking#n4sa
> <<<omitted>>>
>
>
> Unless your hardware is broken, the most likely cause of network
> problems is misconfiguration.  Given dozens settings or more per device,
> the number of combinations across even a small network grows
> astronomically.  The most direct path to a working configuration on an
> X86 PC is to do a fresh install of Debian.  I would remove the drives in
> a problem PC, install a blank drive, do fresh install of Debian 9, and
> see if that works.
>
>
> David
>
>
Thanks David for the reply and the link.

I probably never made my situation very clear, but i do now have a
solution.  I'm posting it here for the benefit of anybody who has a similar
problem, and finds this thread.

First, the setup is that i have 3 hosts:
A  --- runs debian 10
B  --- runs linux mint 16.04
C  --- old hardware which cannot connect to my internet-modem-router.

Each of the 3 hosts has 2 network interfaces; there are thus 3 LANs (local
area networks), and each host is on two of them, but not the third.

The internet-modem-router is on the same LAN as A and B, because C cannot
connect to it directly without destabilizing or sometimes just locking.

I installed linux mint 16.04 on host B about 5 years ago.  Setting up the
network was easy: all i had to do was select some option in some gui that
said "shared" or "share network" or something like that.  That just worked,
and host C could see the internet through host B.  It still does work, by
the way.

However, i would like to upgrade host B to use debian 10, just like host A.

When i do that, host C will lose (or would have lost) connectivity to the
internet because host A did not share its internet with host C.

So, before upgrading host B to debian, it was necessary to get the network
working properly on the LAN connecting A and C.  This, by the way, can be
tested on C by using the -S argument with ping.  On host C, i can run "ping
-S X.Y.Z.W google.com".  By setting X.Y.Z.W to the ip of the BC interface,
it will go through B (mint), and it does that successfully.  But by setting
X.Y.Z.W to the ip of the AC interface, it would have to go through A
(debian), and until i fixed it (as described below), this would fail.

So although i agree that in general, it makes sense to upgrade to a clean
host before trying to get the network running, in this particular case it
was imperative to first get the network running through a host, A, that was
already in existence and has a couple of years' usage, before upgrading
host B (currently mint, but hopefully soon to be debian).

The one advantage of this setup though, is that it was possible to compare
a working system (B, mint) with a non-working system (A, debian).

I ran across this article by Nico Brailovsky,
https://monoinfinito.wordpress.com/series/setting-up-a-linux-gatewayrouter-a-guide-for-non-network-admins/
which explained how to do it.

First, one must adjust /proc/sys/net/ipv4/ip_forwarding.

On host B (mint), the working system, that file had an ascii '1' in it.  On
host A (debian), the non-working system, that file had a '0' in it.  So i
changed it on A, to be '1'.

Then, the ip tables have to be updated.

The commands Brailovsky gave need to be modified just slightly, due to
differences in naming conventions of the interfaces.

They are:
 sudo iptables --table nat --append POSTROUTING --out-interface enp2s0 -j
MASQUERADE
and then
sudo iptables --append FORWARD --in-interface XXXXXXXXX -j ACCEPT

Here, enp2s0 is the standard name for the motherboard ethernet port, and
XXXXXX is to be replaced by the name of the second interface.  In my case,
it is etherhet-over-usb, so is some long name that would be different for
every host.

And that's it.  I didn't even have to restart the networking service ---
although i did restart it after editing /proc/sys/net/ipv4/ip_forwarding,
just to see if changing that one file would be enough to get things
working.  (Just for reference, restarting the networking is done by 'sudo
/etc/init.d/networking restart' . )

Some miscellaneous notes: 'sudo iptables --list' still gives different
results between host A and host B; the linux mint has several more entries
than debian.  And of course, i do not know if the prior work i had done
with the connection editor had any role in this; possibly it provided some
crucial configuration change.   And if i could run the mint tool on the
debian system, then maybe it could all have been done more simply.

But it seems to work, at least for now.

Thanks again everybody for your help!

dan

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#230823

On 1/19/2021 1:40 AM, Dan Hitt wrote:
> On Sun, Jan 17, 2021 at 11:41 PM David Christensen <
> dpchrist@holgerdanske.com> wrote:
>
>> On 2021-01-16 10:28, Dan Hitt wrote:
>>
> I probably never made my situation very clear, but i do now have a
> solution.  I'm posting it here for the benefit of anybody who has a similar
> problem, and finds this thread.
>
> First, the setup is that i have 3 hosts:
> A  --- runs debian 10
> B  --- runs linux mint 16.04
> C  --- old hardware which cannot connect to my internet-modem-router.
>
> Each of the 3 hosts has 2 network interfaces; there are thus 3 LANs (local
> area networks), and each host is on two of them, but not the third.
>
> The internet-modem-router is on the same LAN as A and B, because C cannot
> connect to it directly without destabilizing or sometimes just locking.
>
> I installed linux mint 16.04 on host B about 5 years ago.  Setting up the
> network was easy: all i had to do was select some option in some gui that
> said "shared" or "share network" or something like that.  That just worked,
> and host C could see the internet through host B.  It still does work, by
> the way.
>
> However, i would like to upgrade host B to use debian 10, just like host A.
>
> When i do that, host C will lose (or would have lost) connectivity to the
> internet because host A did not share its internet with host C.
>
> So, before upgrading host B to debian, it was necessary to get the network
> working properly on the LAN connecting A and C.  This, by the way, can be
> tested on C by using the -S argument with ping.  On host C, i can run "ping
> -S X.Y.Z.W google.com".  By setting X.Y.Z.W to the ip of the BC interface,
> it will go through B (mint), and it does that successfully.  But by setting
> X.Y.Z.W to the ip of the AC interface, it would have to go through A
> (debian), and until i fixed it (as described below), this would fail.
>
> So although i agree that in general, it makes sense to upgrade to a clean
> host before trying to get the network running, in this particular case it
> was imperative to first get the network running through a host, A, that was
> already in existence and has a couple of years' usage, before upgrading
> host B (currently mint, but hopefully soon to be debian).
>
> The one advantage of this setup though, is that it was possible to compare
> a working system (B, mint) with a non-working system (A, debian).
>
> I ran across this article by Nico Brailovsky,
> https://monoinfinito.wordpress.com/series/setting-up-a-linux-gatewayrouter-a-guide-for-non-network-admins/
> which explained how to do it.
>
> First, one must adjust /proc/sys/net/ipv4/ip_forwarding.
>
> On host B (mint), the working system, that file had an ascii '1' in it.  On
> host A (debian), the non-working system, that file had a '0' in it.  So i
> changed it on A, to be '1'.
>
> Then, the ip tables have to be updated.
>
> The commands Brailovsky gave need to be modified just slightly, due to
> differences in naming conventions of the interfaces.
>
> They are:
>   sudo iptables --table nat --append POSTROUTING --out-interface enp2s0 -j
> MASQUERADE
> and then
> sudo iptables --append FORWARD --in-interface XXXXXXXXX -j ACCEPT
>

Note that Debian is moving from Iptables to Nftables, the effect of the
above cmds will be lost when rebooting the host.



> Here, enp2s0 is the standard name for the motherboard ethernet port, and
> XXXXXX is to be replaced by the name of the second interface.  In my case,
> it is etherhet-over-usb, so is some long name that would be different for
> every host.
>
> And that's it.  I didn't even have to restart the networking service ---
> although i did restart it after editing /proc/sys/net/ipv4/ip_forwarding,
> just to see if changing that one file would be enough to get things
> working.  (Just for reference, restarting the networking is done by 'sudo
> /etc/init.d/networking restart' . )
>

On Debian you would probably want to use 'systemctl restart networking'
instead of calling the script directly.
Restarting the networking service is not required when you
enable/disable ipforwarding.

Using a frontend to IP/Nftables might be worth considering.

--
John Doe

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#230859

On 2021-01-18 16:40, Dan Hitt wrote:

> First, the setup is that i have 3 hosts:
> A  --- runs debian 10
> B  --- runs linux mint 16.04
> C  --- old hardware which cannot connect to my internet-modem-router.
> 
> Each of the 3 hosts has 2 network interfaces; there are thus 3 LANs (local
> area networks), and each host is on two of them, but not the third.
> 
> The internet-modem-router is on the same LAN as A and B, because C cannot
> connect to it directly without destabilizing or sometimes just locking.
> 
> I installed linux mint 16.04 on host B about 5 years ago.  Setting up the
> network was easy: all i had to do was select some option in some gui that
> said "shared" or "share network" or something like that.  That just worked,
> and host C could see the internet through host B.  It still does work, by
> the way.
> 
> However, i would like to upgrade host B to use debian 10, just like host A.
> 
> When i do that, host C will lose (or would have lost) connectivity to the
> internet because host A did not share its internet with host C.
> 
> So, before upgrading host B to debian, it was necessary to get the network
> working properly on the LAN connecting A and C.  This, by the way, can be
> tested on C by using the -S argument with ping.  On host C, i can run "ping
> -S X.Y.Z.W google.com".  By setting X.Y.Z.W to the ip of the BC interface,
> it will go through B (mint), and it does that successfully.  But by setting
> X.Y.Z.W to the ip of the AC interface, it would have to go through A
> (debian), and until i fixed it (as described below), this would fail.
> 
> So although i agree that in general, it makes sense to upgrade to a clean
> host before trying to get the network running, in this particular case it
> was imperative to first get the network running through a host, A, that was
> already in existence and has a couple of years' usage, before upgrading
> host B (currently mint, but hopefully soon to be debian).
> 
> The one advantage of this setup though, is that it was possible to compare
> a working system (B, mint) with a non-working system (A, debian).
> 
> I ran across this article by Nico Brailovsky,
> https://monoinfinito.wordpress.com/series/setting-up-a-linux-gatewayrouter-a-guide-for-non-network-admins/
> which explained how to do it.
> 
> First, one must adjust /proc/sys/net/ipv4/ip_forwarding.
> 
> On host B (mint), the working system, that file had an ascii '1' in it.  On
> host A (debian), the non-working system, that file had a '0' in it.  So i
> changed it on A, to be '1'.
> 
> Then, the ip tables have to be updated.
> 
> The commands Brailovsky gave need to be modified just slightly, due to
> differences in naming conventions of the interfaces.
> 
> They are:
>   sudo iptables --table nat --append POSTROUTING --out-interface enp2s0 -j
> MASQUERADE
> and then
> sudo iptables --append FORWARD --in-interface XXXXXXXXX -j ACCEPT
> 
> Here, enp2s0 is the standard name for the motherboard ethernet port, and
> XXXXXX is to be replaced by the name of the second interface.  In my case,
> it is etherhet-over-usb, so is some long name that would be different for
> every host.
> 
> And that's it.  I didn't even have to restart the networking service ---
> although i did restart it after editing /proc/sys/net/ipv4/ip_forwarding,
> just to see if changing that one file would be enough to get things
> working.  (Just for reference, restarting the networking is done by 'sudo
> /etc/init.d/networking restart' . )
> 
> Some miscellaneous notes: 'sudo iptables --list' still gives different
> results between host A and host B; the linux mint has several more entries
> than debian.  And of course, i do not know if the prior work i had done
> with the connection editor had any role in this; possibly it provided some
> crucial configuration change.   And if i could run the mint tool on the
> debian system, then maybe it could all have been done more simply.
> 
> But it seems to work, at least for now.
> 
> Thanks again everybody for your help!

You build a Debian NAT/ router the old-school way.  :-)


David

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#231042

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On Sb, 16 ian 21, 10:28:43, Dan Hitt wrote:
> 
> Regarding Andrei's suggestion of using nm-connection-editor, and using
> "Shared to other computers", i saw that last night, and tried using it.  It
> looked similar to the gui that i had on my old mint (ubuntu) machine.
> 
> I made sure that the 'Ethernet' tab had the mac addr of the right device
> --- it's a usb/ethernet cable, and has a long name, so it would be hard to
> confuse it with enp2s0 (the connection to the 'internet-modem').
> 
> In the 'IPv4 Settings' tab, the method i have selected is 'Shared to other
> computers'.  There's a text area below, marked 'Address (optional)'.
> 
> In that optional area i put the ip address of my debian machine, with '24'
> for the netmask.  The ip address for my debian machine, that i want to use
> for this LAN, is consistent with what 'ip addr show' displays.  It's kind
> of unclear what to write for a gateway --- should i put in the address of
> my debian box, or the address of the internet modem (router)?  Anyhow, i
> tried them both, and neither one worked.
> 
> I also tried just deleting the 'Address (optional)' section, since it says
> it is optional.  But this also had no effect.
> 
> I also added an extra ip address to the usb/ethernet link on my debian
> machine, using
>        sudo ip addr add 10.X.Y.Z/24  dev enx**********
> and this becomes instantly visible to the other system.   So i think the
> other system is properly accessing my debian system.
> 
> So, thanks for any clarification anybody has to offer on the proper usage
> of nm-connection-editor.

Eventually I got around to actually test this.

First thing I noticed is that some of the necessary components are 
Recommends of network-manager (dnsmasq-base and iptables, confirmed by 
the package description). Unless installation of Recommends is 
explicitly disabled these should already be installed.

Next I added a new connection of type "Ethernet" and left everything at 
default, except for setting the "Method" to "Shared to other computers" 
in the "IPv4 Settings" tab. For good measure I restarted the entire 
system, though I believe simply enabling the connection would have been 
enough.

With these the system at the other end of the cable received a DHCP 
address in the 10.42.0.0/24 network and was able to ping both the "lan" 
as well as the "wan" interface of the "gateway". According to my reading 
the network can be changed by setting an address as desired.

Unfortunately that is as far as I got. Since there are no recent reports 
of problems with this I strongly suspect the issue is some 
incompatibility between nft and the "special" 3.18 kernel running on the 
"gateway" system.

IPv4 forwarding was enabled correctly and I also tried a workaround for 
an old bug (fixed already in stretch), i.e. setting IPv6 to "Ignore" 
(and restarting).

In case someone is interested to dig deeper I'm attaching the output of 
'nft list ruleset' (with the MAC address of the USB adapter redacted).

Based on your symptoms I strongly suspect either one or both of 
dnsmasq-base and iptables were missing from your system.

Kind regards,
Andrei
-- 
http://wiki.debian.org/FAQsFromDebianUser

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#231057

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On Sun, Jan 24, 2021 at 9:16 AM Andrei POPESCU <andreimpopescu@gmail.com>
wrote:

> On Sb, 16 ian 21, 10:28:43, Dan Hitt wrote:
> >
> > Regarding Andrei's suggestion of using nm-connection-editor, and using
> > "Shared to other computers", i saw that last night, and tried using it.
> It
> > looked similar to the gui that i had on my old mint (ubuntu) machine.
> ........
>
> Eventually I got around to actually test this.
>
> First thing I noticed is that some of the necessary components are
> Recommends of network-manager (dnsmasq-base and iptables, confirmed by
> the package description). Unless installation of Recommends is
> explicitly disabled these should already be installed.
>
> Next I added a new connection of type "Ethernet" and left everything at
> default, except for setting the "Method" to "Shared to other computers"
> in the "IPv4 Settings" tab. For good measure I restarted the entire
> system, though I believe simply enabling the connection would have been
> enough.
>
> With these the system at the other end of the cable received a DHCP
> address in the 10.42.0.0/24 network and was able to ping both the "lan"
> as well as the "wan" interface of the "gateway". According to my reading
> the network can be changed by setting an address as desired.
>
> Unfortunately that is as far as I got. Since there are no recent reports
> of problems with this I strongly suspect the issue is some
> incompatibility between nft and the "special" 3.18 kernel running on the
> "gateway" system.
>
> IPv4 forwarding was enabled correctly and I also tried a workaround for
> an old bug (fixed already in stretch), i.e. setting IPv6 to "Ignore"
> (and restarting).
>
> In case someone is interested to dig deeper I'm attaching the output of
> 'nft list ruleset' (with the MAC address of the USB adapter redacted).
>
> Based on your symptoms I strongly suspect either one or both of
> dnsmasq-base and iptables were missing from your system.
>
> Kind regards,
> Andrei
> --
> http://wiki.debian.org/FAQsFromDebianUser


Thanks Andrei for being so nice and going to all this effort, and posting
the results of running
    nft list ruleset

Now, i do not have a command 'nft', or at least, no place that i can find a
path to it.   The man page for iptables-nft however lists your very command
as an example, 'nft list ruleset'.  But i cannot find 'nft' anywhere in the
filesystem (except as a directory in linux-headers-xxxx).

However, i do have commands /sbin/iptables and /sbin/iptables-nft.  When i
run either of them with the arguments --list-rules i get an output.  But it
is much shorter than yours, and '--verbose' only lengthens it very little.

The output is:

    -P INPUT ACCEPT
    -P FORWARD ACCEPT
    -P OUTPUT ACCEPT
    -A FORWARD -i enxXXXXXXXXX -j ACCEPT

while the verbose output is the same, except that the forward line now reads
    -A FORWARD -i enxXXXXXXXXX -c NNN MMMM -j ACCEPT

(I've redacted the usb-ethernet id, as well as the two mysterious numbers
after '-c': one having 3 digits and one having 5 digits.)

Anyhow, thanks again for pursuing this so far.

dan

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#231062

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On Sun, Jan 24, 2021 at 2:05 PM Dan Hitt <dan.hitt@gmail.com> wrote:

>
>
> On Sun, Jan 24, 2021 at 9:16 AM Andrei POPESCU <andreimpopescu@gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
>> On Sb, 16 ian 21, 10:28:43, Dan Hitt wrote:
>> >
>> > Regarding Andrei's suggestion of using nm-connection-editor, and using
>> > "Shared to other computers", i saw that last night, and tried using
>> it.  It
>> > looked similar to the gui that i had on my old mint (ubuntu) machine.
>> ........
>>
>> Eventually I got around to actually test this.
>>
>> First thing I noticed is that some of the necessary components are
>> Recommends of network-manager (dnsmasq-base and iptables, confirmed by
>> the package description). Unless installation of Recommends is
>> explicitly disabled these should already be installed.
>>
>> Next I added a new connection of type "Ethernet" and left everything at
>> default, except for setting the "Method" to "Shared to other computers"
>> in the "IPv4 Settings" tab. For good measure I restarted the entire
>> system, though I believe simply enabling the connection would have been
>> enough.
>>
>> With these the system at the other end of the cable received a DHCP
>> address in the 10.42.0.0/24 network and was able to ping both the "lan"
>> as well as the "wan" interface of the "gateway". According to my reading
>> the network can be changed by setting an address as desired.
>>
>> Unfortunately that is as far as I got. Since there are no recent reports
>> of problems with this I strongly suspect the issue is some
>> incompatibility between nft and the "special" 3.18 kernel running on the
>> "gateway" system.
>>
>> IPv4 forwarding was enabled correctly and I also tried a workaround for
>> an old bug (fixed already in stretch), i.e. setting IPv6 to "Ignore"
>> (and restarting).
>>
>> In case someone is interested to dig deeper I'm attaching the output of
>> 'nft list ruleset' (with the MAC address of the USB adapter redacted).
>>
>> Based on your symptoms I strongly suspect either one or both of
>> dnsmasq-base and iptables were missing from your system.
>>
>> Kind regards,
>> Andrei
>> --
>> http://wiki.debian.org/FAQsFromDebianUser
>
>
> Thanks Andrei for being so nice and going to all this effort, and posting
> the results of running
>     nft list ruleset
>
> Now, i do not have a command 'nft', or at least, no place that i can find
> a path to it.   The man page for iptables-nft however lists your very
> command as an example, 'nft list ruleset'.  But i cannot find 'nft'
> anywhere in the filesystem (except as a directory in linux-headers-xxxx).
>
> However, i do have commands /sbin/iptables and /sbin/iptables-nft.  When i
> run either of them with the arguments --list-rules i get an output.  But it
> is much shorter than yours, and '--verbose' only lengthens it very little.
>
> The output is:
>
>     -P INPUT ACCEPT
>     -P FORWARD ACCEPT
>     -P OUTPUT ACCEPT
>     -A FORWARD -i enxXXXXXXXXX -j ACCEPT
>
> while the verbose output is the same, except that the forward line now
> reads
>     -A FORWARD -i enxXXXXXXXXX -c NNN MMMM -j ACCEPT
>
> (I've redacted the usb-ethernet id, as well as the two mysterious numbers
> after '-c': one having 3 digits and one having 5 digits.)
>
> Anyhow, thanks again for pursuing this so far.
>

One other thing i should add:

I just installed xubuntu 20.4.1 on another computer, and the only other
package i installed was emacs.  So it should be very clean.

I ran 'All Applications' > 'Advanced Network Configuration' and it popped
up a gui which looks very, very similar to nm-connection-editor.  (So i
think it's the same software, although perhaps not exactly the same
version.)  I renamed the connections from 'Wired connection 1' and 'Wired
connection 2' to something more readable, and for the connection to a third
(ancient) computer, i changed the IPv4 setting to 'Shared to other
computers'.

I did absolutely nothing else, including giving it an ip address, or a net
mask, or just anything.  And there's no DHCP service on that LAN; no other
computer is handing out ip addresses (as far as i know).

Nevertheless, as soon as i clicked 'Save', my ancient computer could see
the internet through the xubuntu machine.

The address xubuntu took for itself was 10.42.0.1, which is the same
address as the previous OS on that box took.  Perhaps that is a magic
address.  There's an old debian message which suggests this:
https://lists.debian.org/debian-user/2016/07/msg00422.html

It's not a burning issue for me any more, but i still wonder about getting
an 'nft' command, and anything else anybody knows.

Thanks Andrei and everybody else for all your help.

dan

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#231068

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On Du, 24 ian 21, 18:50:15, Dan Hitt wrote:
> 
> The address xubuntu took for itself was 10.42.0.1, which is the same
> address as the previous OS on that box took.  Perhaps that is a magic
> address.  

Of course it is :D

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phrases_from_The_Hitchhiker%27s_Guide_to_the_Galaxy#The_Answer_to_the_Ultimate_Question_of_Life,_the_Universe,_and_Everything_is_42

Kind regards,
Andrei
-- 
http://wiki.debian.org/FAQsFromDebianUser

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#231069

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On Lu, 25 ian 21, 08:12:30, Andrei POPESCU wrote:
> On Du, 24 ian 21, 18:50:15, Dan Hitt wrote:
> > 
> > The address xubuntu took for itself was 10.42.0.1, which is the same
> > address as the previous OS on that box took.  Perhaps that is a magic
> > address.  
> 
> Of course it is :D
> 
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phrases_from_The_Hitchhiker%27s_Guide_to_the_Galaxy#The_Answer_to_the_Ultimate_Question_of_Life,_the_Universe,_and_Everything_is_42

Forgot to add a spoiler warning for those who didn't read the book / saw 
the movie.

Kind regards,
Andrei
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http://wiki.debian.org/FAQsFromDebianUser

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#231066

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On Du, 24 ian 21, 14:05:07, Dan Hitt wrote:
> 
> Now, i do not have a command 'nft', or at least, no place that i can find a
> path to it.   The man page for iptables-nft however lists your very command
> as an example, 'nft list ruleset'.  But i cannot find 'nft' anywhere in the
> filesystem (except as a directory in linux-headers-xxxx).

It's part of package 'nftables' and should be installed in /usr/sbin/. 
The package 'nftables' is a Recommends of 'iptables'.


What is the output of?

    apt-config dump | grep -i recommends


Kind regards,
Andrei
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#231080

On Mon, 25 Jan 2021 08:08:40 +0200
Andrei POPESCU <andreimpopescu@gmail.com> wrote:

> On Du, 24 ian 21, 14:05:07, Dan Hitt wrote:
> > 
> > Now, i do not have a command 'nft', or at least, no place that i
> > can find a path to it.   The man page for iptables-nft however
> > lists your very command as an example, 'nft list ruleset'.  But i
> > cannot find 'nft' anywhere in the filesystem (except as a directory
> > in linux-headers-xxxx).  
> 
> It's part of package 'nftables' and should be installed in
> /usr/sbin/. The package 'nftables' is a Recommends of 'iptables'.
> 
> 
> What is the output of?
> 
>     apt-config dump | grep -i recommends
> 
Many people don't install recommends automatically.

It doesn't get installed by default in anything before buster, so if
you're running anything earlier (or sid), you need to install it
manually. Also, an upgrade will not automatically switch to it from
iptables, even when it is installed.

-- 
Joe

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