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Zoom.

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  Zoom. peter@easthope.ca - 2020-10-17 23:10 +0200
    Re: Zoom. Charles Curley <charlescurley@charlescurley.com> - 2020-10-17 23:40 +0200
    Re: Zoom. Peter Ehlert <peter@sdi-baja.com> - 2020-10-18 00:10 +0200
    Re: Zoom. Carl Fink <carlf@panix.com> - 2020-10-18 01:00 +0200
      Re: Zoom. conover@rahul.net (John Conover) - 2020-10-18 01:40 +0200
    Re: Zoom. David <bouncingcats@gmail.com> - 2020-10-18 01:50 +0200
      Re: Zoom. riveravaldez <riveravaldezmail@gmail.com> - 2020-10-18 05:10 +0200
      Re: Zoom. Tom Dial <tddial@comcast.net> - 2020-10-18 09:20 +0200
    Re: Zoom. Bob McGowan <ramjr0915@gmail.com> - 2020-10-18 03:30 +0200
      Re: Zoom. peter@easthope.ca - 2020-10-19 23:10 +0200
        Re: Zoom. Michael Stone <mstone@debian.org> - 2020-10-19 23:10 +0200
          Re: Zoom. peter@easthope.ca - 2020-10-22 15:30 +0200
            Re: Zoom. Michael Stone <mstone@debian.org> - 2020-10-22 16:40 +0200
        Re: Zoom. John Crawley <john@bunsenlabs.org> - 2020-10-20 04:30 +0200
          Re: Zoom. Dan Ritter <dsr@randomstring.org> - 2020-10-20 12:40 +0200
            Re: Zoom. Nicolas George <george@nsup.org> - 2020-10-20 13:20 +0200
            Re: Zoom. Greg Wooledge <wooledg@eeg.ccf.org> - 2020-10-20 13:40 +0200
              Re: Zoom. Dan Ritter <dsr@randomstring.org> - 2020-10-20 14:10 +0200
              Re: shells (was Re: Zoom.) rhkramer@gmail.com - 2020-10-20 17:00 +0200
                Re: shells (was Re: Zoom.) Nicolas George <george@nsup.org> - 2020-10-20 17:00 +0200
                Re: shells (was Re: Zoom.) Tony van der Hoff <lists@vanderhoff.org> - 2020-10-20 17:40 +0200
    Re: Zoom. A_Man_Without_Clue <love.chaser@gmail.com> - 2020-10-18 05:20 +0200
    Re: Zoom. Stefan Monnier <monnier@iro.umontreal.ca> - 2020-10-18 17:20 +0200
      Re: Zoom. Sven Hartge <sven@svenhartge.de> - 2020-10-18 17:50 +0200
        Re: Zoom. <tomas@tuxteam.de> - 2020-10-19 09:30 +0200
          Re: Zoom. Sven Hartge <sven@svenhartge.de> - 2020-10-19 09:40 +0200
            Re: Zoom. David Wright <deblis@lionunicorn.co.uk> - 2020-10-19 17:10 +0200
            Re: Zoom. Stefan Monnier <monnier@iro.umontreal.ca> - 2020-10-19 17:30 +0200
              Re: Zoom. <tomas@tuxteam.de> - 2020-10-19 17:40 +0200
              Re: Zoom. Stefan Monnier <monnier@iro.umontreal.ca> - 2020-10-19 18:00 +0200
            Re: Zoom. Stefan Monnier <monnier@iro.umontreal.ca> - 2020-10-19 17:40 +0200
          Re: Zoom. "Thomas Schmitt" <scdbackup@gmx.net> - 2020-10-19 10:00 +0200
      Re: Zoom. peter@easthope.ca - 2020-10-20 03:20 +0200
        Re: Zoom. <tomas@tuxteam.de> - 2020-10-20 10:10 +0200
      Re: Zoom. peter@easthope.ca - 2020-10-20 03:30 +0200
      Server for Jitsi; was: Zoom. peter@easthope.ca - 2020-10-22 20:20 +0200
        Re: Server for Jitsi; was: Zoom. Dan Ritter <dsr@randomstring.org> - 2020-10-22 20:40 +0200
        Re: Server for Jitsi; was: Zoom. "der.hans" <deb-user@LuftHans.com> - 2020-10-22 21:00 +0200
        Re: Server for Jitsi; was: Zoom. Stefan Monnier <monnier@iro.umontreal.ca> - 2020-10-23 01:40 +0200

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#228030 — Re: shells (was Re: Zoom.)

On 20/10/2020 15:51, rhkramer@gmail.com wrote:
> Top posting intentionally as I don't think any (or much) context is required.
> 
so, hijacking a thread instead? :-)

<snip>
-- 
Tony van der Hoff        | mailto:tony@vanderhoff.org
Buckinghamshire, England |

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#227936

On 10/18/20 5:23 AM, peter@easthope.ca wrote:
> Does anyone have Zoom working in Debian 10?
> 
> Here it produces empty windows.  Visible toward the right in this 
> screenshot.  http://easthope.ca/Zoom.png
> 
> This is the entire output after starting in a terminal and then 
> exiting.
> 
> peter@joule:~$ zoom 
> peter@joule:~$ 
> 
> Thx,                       ... P.
> 


Mine is working fine except it pops up occasionally for no reason. Quite
annoying though.

I downloaded from the ZOOM site and just installed.

A man without clue

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#227948

> Does anyone have Zoom working in Debian 10?

Don't know, but I use and recommend Jitsi as a Free Software alternative.


        Stefan

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#227949

Stefan Monnier <monnier@iro.umontreal.ca> wrote:

>> Does anyone have Zoom working in Debian 10?

> Don't know, but I use and recommend Jitsi as a Free Software
> alternative.

If The Powers That Be[tm] have decided to use Zoom, then it is
irrelevant that there might be a better (Open Source) alternative.

Grüße,
Sven.

-- 
Sigmentation fault. Core dumped.

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#227954

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On Sun, Oct 18, 2020 at 05:40:04PM +0200, Sven Hartge wrote:
> Stefan Monnier <monnier@iro.umontreal.ca> wrote:
> 
> >> Does anyone have Zoom working in Debian 10?
> 
> > Don't know, but I use and recommend Jitsi as a Free Software
> > alternative.
> 
> If The Powers That Be[tm] have decided to use Zoom, then it is
> irrelevant that there might be a better (Open Source) alternative.

Isn't it funny that we consider ourselves "liberal democracies", but
when crossing our $COMPANY's doorstep, we leave our convictions at
the wardrobe?

;-)

Cheers
 - t

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#227956

tomas@tuxteam.de wrote:
> On Sun, Oct 18, 2020 at 05:40:04PM +0200, Sven Hartge wrote:
>> Stefan Monnier <monnier@iro.umontreal.ca> wrote:
 
>>>> Does anyone have Zoom working in Debian 10?

>>> Don't know, but I use and recommend Jitsi as a Free Software
>>> alternative.
 
>> If The Powers That Be[tm] have decided to use Zoom, then it is
>> irrelevant that there might be a better (Open Source) alternative.

> Isn't it funny that we consider ourselves "liberal democracies", but
> when crossing our $COMPANY's doorstep, we leave our convictions at the
> wardrobe?

In an ideal world one could just refuse to do so and quit the job.

But this isn't an ideal world, is it?

S!

-- 
Sigmentation fault. Core dumped.

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#227978

On Mon 19 Oct 2020 at 09:37:01 (+0200), Sven Hartge wrote:
> tomas@tuxteam.de wrote:
> > On Sun, Oct 18, 2020 at 05:40:04PM +0200, Sven Hartge wrote:
> >> Stefan Monnier <monnier@iro.umontreal.ca> wrote:
>  
> >>>> Does anyone have Zoom working in Debian 10?
> 
> >>> Don't know, but I use and recommend Jitsi as a Free Software
> >>> alternative.
>  
> >> If The Powers That Be[tm] have decided to use Zoom, then it is
> >> irrelevant that there might be a better (Open Source) alternative.
> 
> > Isn't it funny that we consider ourselves "liberal democracies", but
> > when crossing our $COMPANY's doorstep, we leave our convictions at the
> > wardrobe?
> 
> In an ideal world one could just refuse to do so and quit the job.

Not a hill I'd choose to die on.

> But this isn't an ideal world, is it?

Cheers,
David.

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#227979

>> Isn't it funny that we consider ourselves "liberal democracies", but
>> when crossing our $COMPANY's doorstep, we leave our convictions at the
>> wardrobe?
> In an ideal world one could just refuse to do so and quit the job.

There are many other things one can do, starting with consistently
and repeatedly pointing out the problems in using such services, using
them as little as possible and using alternatives whenever possible
(rather than following the path of least resistance and keep using the
proprietary tool in circumstances where it's not necessary, simply
because you have it setup already), ...


        Stefan

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#227981

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On Mon, Oct 19, 2020 at 11:21:21AM -0400, Stefan Monnier wrote:
> >> Isn't it funny that we consider ourselves "liberal democracies", but
> >> when crossing our $COMPANY's doorstep, we leave our convictions at the
> >> wardrobe?
> > In an ideal world one could just refuse to do so and quit the job.
> 
> There are many other things one can do, starting with consistently
> and repeatedly pointing out the problems in using such services, using
> them as little as possible and using alternatives whenever possible
> (rather than following the path of least resistance and keep using the
> proprietary tool in circumstances where it's not necessary, simply
> because you have it setup already), ...

Exactly. No need to die in a hill for it :)

Cheers
-- t

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#227982

>>> Isn't it funny that we consider ourselves "liberal democracies", but
>>> when crossing our $COMPANY's doorstep, we leave our convictions at the
>>> wardrobe?
>> In an ideal world one could just refuse to do so and quit the job.
> There are many other things one can do,

Among them I forgot to mention an important one: you can "refuse to do
so" but without quitting your job.  Of course, there's the risk you'll
get fired, but there are many jobs where the employer may prefer some
other course of action, especially if you combine your refusal with
a reasonable counter offer.


        Stefan

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#227980

> But this isn't an ideal world, is it?

No, but the recent societal changes due to the pandemic have made an
enormous difference: for many (most?) people now 100% of their
communications outside of their immediate family (including the most
intimate/private ones) goes through proprietary code under the
control of companies which owe nothing to those people.

To make matters worse, this is a small handful of companies which
control (and can record, archive, analyze, ...) the whole
world's communication.

The power they can wield is hard to fathom.


        Stefan

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#227957

Hi,

tomas wrote:
> Isn't it funny that we consider ourselves "liberal democracies", but
> when crossing our $COMPANY's doorstep, we leave our convictions at the
> wardrobe?

Rental slavery is not in contradiction to the declaration of human rights.
There are some regulations, though:

  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Labor_rights#International_Labor_Organization_%28ILO%29

I understand that you have the right to have your union protest against
Zoom, but not the right to refuse using it for fulfilling your work duties.


Have a nice day :)

Thomas

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#227996

From: Stefan Monnier <monnier@iro.umontreal.ca>
Date: Sun, 18 Oct 2020 11:16:01 -0400
> I use and recommend Jitsi as a Free Software alternative.

1-1 connection or multi-party conference?

Thanks,                           ... P.
                           

-- 
Tel: +1 604 670 0140            Bcc: peter at easthope. ca

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#228007

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On Mon, Oct 19, 2020 at 06:02:38PM -0700, peter@easthope.ca wrote:
> From: Stefan Monnier <monnier@iro.umontreal.ca>
> Date: Sun, 18 Oct 2020 11:16:01 -0400
> > I use and recommend Jitsi as a Free Software alternative.
> 
> 1-1 connection or multi-party conference?

Jitsi and BBB both support multi-party. You either set up a server
yourself of use one set up by someone else out there who lets you
use it.

There are good recent reviews of both over at lwn.net [1] [2]. In the
usual high lwn quality. As is usual at lwn, the comments are worth
reading, too.

Cheers

[1] "Video conferencing with Jitsi" https://lwn.net/Articles/815751/
[2] "Video conferencing with BigBlueButton" https://lwn.net/Articles/817146/

 - t

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#227997

From: Stefan Monnier <monnier@iro.umontreal.ca>
Date: Sun, 18 Oct 2020 11:16:01 -0400
> I use and recommend Jitsi as a Free Software alternative.

1-1 connection or multi-party conference?

Thanks,                           ... P.
                           

-- 
Tel: +1 604 670 0140            Bcc: peter at easthope. ca

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#228118 — Server for Jitsi; was: Zoom.

From: Stefan Monnier <monnier@iro.umontreal.ca>
Date: Sun, 18 Oct 2020 11:16:01 -0400
> ... I use and recommend Jitsi as a Free Software alternative.

Do you self-host?  Any 3rd party host recommendable?

Thx,                                       ... P.



-- 
Tel: +1 604 670 0140            Bcc: peter at easthope. ca

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#228121 — Re: Server for Jitsi; was: Zoom.

peter@easthope.ca wrote: 
> From: Stefan Monnier <monnier@iro.umontreal.ca>
> Date: Sun, 18 Oct 2020 11:16:01 -0400
> > ... I use and recommend Jitsi as a Free Software alternative.
> 
> Do you self-host?  Any 3rd party host recommendable?

I run three instances of Jitsi; two for my company (one is a
test and can probably go away now) and one at home.

Jitsi needs lots of bandwidth, but not too much RAM. A virtual
machine with 2-4 cores, 4GB RAM, and 10GB disk space will do 
just fine for 30+ users, as long as the bandwidth is cheap and
plentiful.

If you have geographic clustering, find someone with a
datacenter in that location.

-dsr-

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#228122 — Re: Server for Jitsi; was: Zoom.

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Am 22. Oct, 2020 schwätzte peter@easthope.ca so:

> From: Stefan Monnier <monnier@iro.umontreal.ca>
> Date: Sun, 18 Oct 2020 11:16:01 -0400
>> ... I use and recommend Jitsi as a Free Software alternative.
>
> Do you self-host?  Any 3rd party host recommendable?

If you need the service for a Free Software project talk to FOSShost about
them hosting for you.

https://meet.jit.si/ is a no cost service available for use from the jitsi
project and 8x8 ( the company sponsoring and funding the jitsi project ).
We used this service for RaiseMe's 1 on 1 career counseling sessions last
weekend. It worked well.

https://FOSShost.org/

You can also pay 8x8 for an account. I pay $10/mo, but don't know if
that's current pricing.

I don't use it much as I've mostly moved to my hosted Big Blue Button
instance. That's more expensive, $40/month, but had a waiting room
feature in the Spring when I decided on one platform or another for my
local group.

https://www.BigBlueMeeting.com/

I've been quite happy with it. BBB does have limitations if lots of people
are sharing video, but for me that's usually not more than a couple people
at a time.

Also, kidling school is using BBB. All the friends were used to BBB when
school started as they'd been using my instance all Summer :).

ciao,

der.hans
-- 
#  https://www.LuftHans.com   https://www.PhxLinux.org
#  Your email is being read by hundreds of uptight agents
#  who never saw the humor in Dr. Strangelove. -- Mark Russell

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#228128 — Re: Server for Jitsi; was: Zoom.

>> ... I use and recommend Jitsi as a Free Software alternative.
> Do you self-host?  Any 3rd party host recommendable?

Not myself, but we have an instance running on our department's servers.


        Stefan

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