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Groups > linux.debian.user > #225505 > unrolled thread
| Started by | Patrick Bartek <patrick.bartek@gmail.com> |
|---|---|
| First post | 2020-07-29 22:00 +0200 |
| Last post | 2020-08-04 06:30 +0200 |
| Articles | 20 on this page of 114 — 18 participants |
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Homebuilt NAS Advice Patrick Bartek <patrick.bartek@gmail.com> - 2020-07-29 22:00 +0200
Re: Homebuilt NAS Advice Dan Ritter <dsr@randomstring.org> - 2020-07-29 22:20 +0200
Re: Homebuilt NAS Advice David Christensen <dpchrist@holgerdanske.com> - 2020-07-29 22:30 +0200
Re: Homebuilt NAS Advice Dan Ritter <dsr@randomstring.org> - 2020-07-29 23:40 +0200
Re: Homebuilt NAS Advice Patrick Bartek <patrick.bartek@gmail.com> - 2020-07-30 02:50 +0200
Re: Homebuilt NAS Advice Tom Dial <tddial@comcast.net> - 2020-07-30 22:50 +0200
Re: Homebuilt NAS Advice Leslie Rhorer <lesrhorer@att.net> - 2020-08-02 01:40 +0200
Re: Homebuilt NAS Advice David Christensen <dpchrist@holgerdanske.com> - 2020-08-02 03:10 +0200
Re: Homebuilt NAS Advice Keith Bainbridge <ke1th3216@gmail.com> - 2020-08-02 04:50 +0200
Re: Homebuilt NAS Advice David Christensen <dpchrist@holgerdanske.com> - 2020-08-02 06:10 +0200
Re: Homebuilt NAS Advice Leslie Rhorer <lesrhorer@att.net> - 2020-08-02 21:30 +0200
Re: Homebuilt NAS Advice Leslie Rhorer <lesrhorer@att.net> - 2020-08-02 22:10 +0200
Re: Homebuilt NAS Advice Stefan Monnier <monnier@iro.umontreal.ca> - 2020-08-03 06:10 +0200
Re: Homebuilt NAS Advice Jonathan Dowland <jon+debian-user@dow.land> - 2020-08-03 17:30 +0200
Re: Homebuilt NAS Advice Dan Ritter <dsr@randomstring.org> - 2020-08-03 17:40 +0200
Re: Homebuilt NAS Advice Stefan Monnier <monnier@iro.umontreal.ca> - 2020-08-03 18:40 +0200
Re: Homebuilt NAS Advice <tomas@tuxteam.de> - 2020-08-03 19:10 +0200
Re: Homebuilt NAS Advice Leslie Rhorer <lesrhorer@att.net> - 2020-08-03 22:00 +0200
Re: Homebuilt NAS Advice <tomas@tuxteam.de> - 2020-08-03 22:20 +0200
Re: Homebuilt NAS Advice Stefan Monnier <monnier@iro.umontreal.ca> - 2020-08-03 23:50 +0200
Re: Homebuilt NAS Advice Leslie Rhorer <lesrhorer@att.net> - 2020-08-04 00:50 +0200
Re: Homebuilt NAS Advice Leslie Rhorer <lesrhorer@att.net> - 2020-08-04 00:40 +0200
Re: Homebuilt NAS Advice Anssi Saari <as@sci.fi> - 2020-07-30 10:00 +0200
Re: Homebuilt NAS Advice rhkramer@gmail.com - 2020-07-30 13:20 +0200
Re: Homebuilt NAS Advice Leslie Rhorer <lesrhorer@att.net> - 2020-07-30 01:50 +0200
Re: Homebuilt NAS Advice Patrick Bartek <nemommxiv@gmail.com> - 2020-07-30 23:40 +0200
Re: Homebuilt NAS Advice David Christensen <dpchrist@holgerdanske.com> - 2020-08-08 01:30 +0200
Re: Homebuilt NAS Advice Leslie Rhorer <lesrhorer@att.net> - 2020-08-08 03:30 +0200
Re: Homebuilt NAS Advice David Christensen <dpchrist@holgerdanske.com> - 2020-08-09 14:40 +0200
Re: Homebuilt NAS Advice Peter Ehlert <peter@sdi-baja.com> - 2020-07-30 19:00 +0200
Re: Homebuilt NAS Advice Charles Curley <charlescurley@charlescurley.com> - 2020-07-30 21:50 +0200
Re: Homebuilt NAS Advice Celejar <celejar@gmail.com> - 2020-07-31 13:10 +0200
Re: Homebuilt NAS Advice Patrick Bartek <nemommxiv@gmail.com> - 2020-07-30 23:30 +0200
Re: Homebuilt NAS Advice Leslie Rhorer <lesrhorer@att.net> - 2020-08-02 01:50 +0200
Re: Homebuilt NAS Advice Patrick Bartek <nemommxiv@gmail.com> - 2020-08-02 17:50 +0200
Re: Homebuilt NAS Advice Jonathan Dowland <jon+debian-user@dow.land> - 2020-08-03 17:20 +0200
Re: Homebuilt NAS Advice Leslie Rhorer <lesrhorer@att.net> - 2020-08-04 00:10 +0200
Re: Homebuilt NAS Advice deloptes <deloptes@gmail.com> - 2020-08-04 01:20 +0200
Re: Homebuilt NAS Advice David Christensen <dpchrist@holgerdanske.com> - 2020-08-04 10:40 +0200
Re: Homebuilt NAS Advice Jonathan Dowland <jon+debian-user@dow.land> - 2020-08-04 11:30 +0200
Re: Homebuilt NAS Advice Celejar <celejar@gmail.com> - 2020-08-04 16:00 +0200
Re: Homebuilt NAS Advice Stefan Monnier <monnier@iro.umontreal.ca> - 2020-08-04 16:30 +0200
Re: Homebuilt NAS Advice Leslie Rhorer <lesrhorer@att.net> - 2020-08-05 05:50 +0200
Re: Homebuilt NAS Advice Stefan Monnier <monnier@iro.umontreal.ca> - 2020-08-05 16:20 +0200
Re: Homebuilt NAS Advice Jonathan Dowland <jon+debian-user@dow.land> - 2020-08-05 17:00 +0200
Re: Homebuilt NAS Advice Stefan Monnier <monnier@iro.umontreal.ca> - 2020-08-05 17:40 +0200
Re: Homebuilt NAS Advice Leslie Rhorer <lesrhorer@att.net> - 2020-08-06 12:10 +0200
Re: Homebuilt NAS Advice Celejar <celejar@gmail.com> - 2020-08-06 16:10 +0200
Re: Homebuilt NAS Advice Leslie Rhorer <lesrhorer@att.net> - 2020-08-06 17:10 +0200
Re: Homebuilt NAS Advice Celejar <celejar@gmail.com> - 2020-08-06 18:10 +0200
Re: Homebuilt NAS Advice Jonathan Dowland <jon+debian-user@dow.land> - 2020-08-07 18:30 +0200
Re: Homebuilt NAS Advice Celejar <celejar@gmail.com> - 2020-08-07 19:40 +0200
Re: Homebuilt NAS Advice rhkramer@gmail.com - 2020-08-08 00:10 +0200
Re: Homebuilt NAS Advice Celejar <celejar@gmail.com> - 2020-08-09 04:30 +0200
Re: Homebuilt NAS Advice Jonathan Dowland <jon+debian-user@dow.land> - 2020-08-09 11:10 +0200
Re: Homebuilt NAS Advice Stefan Monnier <monnier@iro.umontreal.ca> - 2020-08-09 17:00 +0200
Re: Homebuilt NAS Advice Celejar <celejar@gmail.com> - 2020-08-09 18:30 +0200
Re: Homebuilt NAS Advice Stefan Monnier <monnier@iro.umontreal.ca> - 2020-08-09 19:20 +0200
Re: Homebuilt NAS Advice rhkramer@gmail.com - 2020-08-09 23:50 +0200
Re: Homebuilt NAS Advice Celejar <celejar@gmail.com> - 2020-08-10 00:00 +0200
Re: Homebuilt NAS Advice Stefan Monnier <monnier@iro.umontreal.ca> - 2020-08-10 00:30 +0200
Re: Homebuilt NAS Advice David Christensen <dpchrist@holgerdanske.com> - 2020-08-10 00:50 +0200
Re: Homebuilt NAS Advice rhkramer@gmail.com - 2020-08-10 00:30 +0200
Re: Homebuilt NAS Advice David Christensen <dpchrist@holgerdanske.com> - 2020-08-10 00:30 +0200
Re: Homebuilt NAS Advice Celejar <celejar@gmail.com> - 2020-08-09 18:40 +0200
Re: Homebuilt NAS Advice David Christensen <dpchrist@holgerdanske.com> - 2020-08-09 23:00 +0200
Re: Homebuilt NAS Advice deloptes <deloptes@gmail.com> - 2020-08-06 18:20 +0200
Re: Homebuilt NAS Advice Leslie Rhorer <lesrhorer@att.net> - 2020-08-07 05:30 +0200
Re: Homebuilt NAS Advice Jonathan Dowland <jon+debian-user@dow.land> - 2020-08-07 18:30 +0200
Re: Homebuilt NAS Advice rhkramer@gmail.com - 2020-08-06 17:20 +0200
Re: Homebuilt NAS Advice Celejar <celejar@gmail.com> - 2020-08-06 18:20 +0200
Re: Homebuilt NAS Advice Stefan Monnier <monnier@iro.umontreal.ca> - 2020-08-06 18:20 +0200
Re: Homebuilt NAS Advice Andrei POPESCU <andreimpopescu@gmail.com> - 2020-08-04 17:20 +0200
Re: Homebuilt NAS Advice Leslie Rhorer <lesrhorer@att.net> - 2020-08-05 06:20 +0200
Re: Homebuilt NAS Advice Leslie Rhorer <lesrhorer@att.net> - 2020-08-05 04:30 +0200
Re: Homebuilt NAS Advice deloptes <deloptes@gmail.com> - 2020-08-05 09:20 +0200
Re: Homebuilt NAS Advice Leslie Rhorer <lesrhorer@att.net> - 2020-08-05 11:00 +0200
Re: Homebuilt NAS Advice deloptes <deloptes@gmail.com> - 2020-08-05 21:00 +0200
Re: Homebuilt NAS Advice Leslie Rhorer <lesrhorer@att.net> - 2020-08-06 03:50 +0200
Re: Homebuilt NAS Advice Kushal Kumaran <kushal@locationd.net> - 2020-08-06 06:20 +0200
Re: Homebuilt NAS Advice deloptes <deloptes@gmail.com> - 2020-08-06 18:20 +0200
Re: Homebuilt NAS Advice Leslie Rhorer <lesrhorer@att.net> - 2020-08-07 04:10 +0200
Re: Homebuilt NAS Advice Stefan Monnier <monnier@iro.umontreal.ca> - 2020-08-07 05:50 +0200
Re: Homebuilt NAS Advice Jonathan Dowland <jon+debian-user@dow.land> - 2020-08-05 12:30 +0200
Re: Homebuilt NAS Advice Jonathan Dowland <jon+debian-user@dow.land> - 2020-08-05 12:30 +0200
Re: Homebuilt NAS Advice deloptes <deloptes@gmail.com> - 2020-08-05 21:10 +0200
Re: Homebuilt NAS Advice Jonathan Dowland <jon+debian-user@dow.land> - 2020-08-05 23:30 +0200
Re: Homebuilt NAS Advice deloptes <deloptes@gmail.com> - 2020-08-06 00:30 +0200
Re: Homebuilt NAS Advice Leslie Rhorer <lesrhorer@att.net> - 2020-08-06 01:20 +0200
Re: Homebuilt NAS Advice Jonathan Dowland <jon+debian-user@dow.land> - 2020-08-08 09:10 +0200
Re: Homebuilt NAS Advice Stefan Monnier <monnier@iro.umontreal.ca> - 2020-08-06 04:30 +0200
Re: Homebuilt NAS Advice Leslie Rhorer <lesrhorer@att.net> - 2020-08-06 04:50 +0200
Re: Homebuilt NAS Advice Stefan Monnier <monnier@iro.umontreal.ca> - 2020-08-06 06:20 +0200
Re: Homebuilt NAS Advice Leslie Rhorer <lesrhorer@att.net> - 2020-08-06 07:10 +0200
Re: Homebuilt NAS Advice Leslie Rhorer <lesrhorer@att.net> - 2020-08-06 07:30 +0200
Re: Homebuilt NAS Advice Stefan Monnier <monnier@iro.umontreal.ca> - 2020-08-06 18:10 +0200
Re: Homebuilt NAS Advice deloptes <deloptes@gmail.com> - 2020-08-06 18:30 +0200
Re: Homebuilt NAS Advice Leslie Rhorer <lesrhorer@att.net> - 2020-08-07 03:00 +0200
Re: Homebuilt NAS Advice deloptes <deloptes@gmail.com> - 2020-08-07 03:20 +0200
Re: Homebuilt NAS Advice Leslie Rhorer <lesrhorer@att.net> - 2020-08-07 05:00 +0200
Re: Homebuilt NAS Advice Stefan Monnier <monnier@iro.umontreal.ca> - 2020-08-07 05:40 +0200
Re: Homebuilt NAS Advice Leslie Rhorer <lesrhorer@att.net> - 2020-08-07 08:00 +0200
Re: Homebuilt NAS Advice deloptes <deloptes@gmail.com> - 2020-08-07 08:50 +0200
Re: Homebuilt NAS Advice Leslie Rhorer <lesrhorer@att.net> - 2020-08-07 09:10 +0200
Re: Homebuilt NAS Advice Stefan Monnier <monnier@iro.umontreal.ca> - 2020-08-07 17:50 +0200
Re: Homebuilt NAS Advice Leslie Rhorer <lesrhorer@att.net> - 2020-08-08 01:40 +0200
Re: Homebuilt NAS Advice Stefan Monnier <monnier@iro.umontreal.ca> - 2020-08-08 04:50 +0200
Re: Homebuilt NAS Advice Leslie Rhorer <lesrhorer@att.net> - 2020-08-08 22:30 +0200
Re: Homebuilt NAS Advice Stefan Monnier <monnier@iro.umontreal.ca> - 2020-08-09 00:20 +0200
Re: Homebuilt NAS Advice deloptes <deloptes@gmail.com> - 2020-08-09 01:30 +0200
Re: Homebuilt NAS Advice David Christensen <dpchrist@holgerdanske.com> - 2020-08-09 22:40 +0200
Re: Homebuilt NAS Advice David Christensen <dpchrist@holgerdanske.com> - 2020-08-10 00:30 +0200
Re: Homebuilt NAS Advice Leslie Rhorer <lesrhorer@att.net> - 2020-08-10 01:30 +0200
Re: Homebuilt NAS Advice Patrick Bartek <nemommxiv@gmail.com> - 2020-08-04 06:30 +0200
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| From | Patrick Bartek <patrick.bartek@gmail.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2020-07-29 22:00 +0200 |
| Subject | Homebuilt NAS Advice |
| Message-ID | <Ay0p4-3Yf-3@gated-at.bofh.it> |
Hi! all, Thought putting an old, retired system to good use would be better than letting it gather dust in a closet. And by old, I mean OOOOOLD! I built it 13 years ago. However, it's been upgraded many times since, and was still my main box running Stretch until last year. Its current specs: ASRock A770DE+ AM3 MB, AMD Phenom II x4 @ 3.0 GHZ, 8GB DDR2 RAM (max 16GB), 6 - SATA II & 1 - IDE connections, USB2.0. The problem I've run into is finding a NAS OS to run on it. They all seem to require UEFI. which this MB does not support. (I said it was old.) However, in my search I did come across OpenMediaVault which is a simple, lightweight NAS OS based on Debian Jessie that will work with either MBR or UEFI. One nice feature OMV has is it can be installed as a service on top of any Debian OS. So, I can use something more contemporary and still supported. Anyone currently using OpenMediaVault, or have recommendations for another package, or advice, in general, on homebuilt NAS? My plan is to use it for backups, Dropbox-like storage, and possibly home media server. Thanks B
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| From | Dan Ritter <dsr@randomstring.org> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2020-07-29 22:20 +0200 |
| Message-ID | <Ay0Ip-4jY-1@gated-at.bofh.it> |
| In reply to | #225505 |
Patrick Bartek wrote:
> Hi! all,
>
> Thought putting an old, retired system to good use would be better than
> letting it gather dust in a closet. And by old, I mean OOOOOLD! I
> built it 13 years ago. However, it's been upgraded many times since,
> and was still my main box running Stretch until last year. Its current
> specs: ASRock A770DE+ AM3 MB, AMD Phenom II x4 @ 3.0 GHZ, 8GB DDR2 RAM
> (max 16GB), 6 - SATA II & 1 - IDE connections, USB2.0.
>
> The problem I've run into is finding a NAS OS to run on it. They all
> seem to require UEFI. which this MB does not support. (I said it was
> old.) However, in my search I did come across OpenMediaVault which is
> a simple, lightweight NAS OS based on Debian Jessie that will work with
> either MBR or UEFI. One nice feature OMV has is it can be installed as
> a service on top of any Debian OS. So, I can use something more
> contemporary and still supported.
>
> Anyone currently using OpenMediaVault, or have recommendations for
> another package, or advice, in general, on homebuilt NAS?
Debian with ZFS.
Not "built on two-releases-ago Debian". Current, stable Debian.
I recommend making sure you have a new power supply and a UPS,
too. Cyberpower makes decent ones for reasonable prices and nut
supports them.
Maxing out the RAM will probably only cost $10 or so, if
you can find the person in your city who hoards old RAM.
nut - UPS management
samba - if you need to share files with Windows
netatalk - if you need to share files with Mac OS, or be a TimeMachine
mythtv or gerbera or kodi - home theater operations
forked-daapd - music server (has web client, speaks ITunes and
MPD and Chromecast)
Having any web server set up to serve a directory tree is
generally useful.
-dsr-
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| From | David Christensen <dpchrist@holgerdanske.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2020-07-29 22:30 +0200 |
| Message-ID | <Ay0S5-4ne-5@gated-at.bofh.it> |
| In reply to | #225507 |
On 2020-07-29 13:09, Dan Ritter wrote: > Patrick Bartek wrote: >> Thought putting an old, retired system to good use >> The problem I've run into is finding a NAS OS to run on it. > Debian with ZFS. Does the Debian Installer support ZFS during installation? Is ZFS fully integrated/ supported by Debian? Does the Debian Installer rescue shell support ZFS? As of Debian 9, the answers to #1 and #3 was "No" and the answer to #2 was "Maybe". I run FreeBSD for my servers, specifically for ZFS. David
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| From | Dan Ritter <dsr@randomstring.org> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2020-07-29 23:40 +0200 |
| Message-ID | <Ay1XQ-4ZN-5@gated-at.bofh.it> |
| In reply to | #225508 |
David Christensen wrote: > On 2020-07-29 13:09, Dan Ritter wrote: > > Patrick Bartek wrote: > > > > Thought putting an old, retired system to good use > > > > The problem I've run into is finding a NAS OS to run on it. > > > Debian with ZFS. > > > Does the Debian Installer support ZFS during installation? > > > Is ZFS fully integrated/ supported by Debian? > > > Does the Debian Installer rescue shell support ZFS? > > > As of Debian 9, the answers to #1 and #3 was "No" and the answer to #2 was > "Maybe". I run FreeBSD for my servers, specifically for ZFS. It's a perfectly reasonable thing to do, but this is the Debian user list, not freebsd-users. -dsr-
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| From | Patrick Bartek <patrick.bartek@gmail.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2020-07-30 02:50 +0200 |
| Message-ID | <Ay4VH-6IA-1@gated-at.bofh.it> |
| In reply to | #225507 |
On Wed, 29 Jul 2020 16:09:51 -0400 Dan Ritter <dsr@randomstring.org> wrote: > Patrick Bartek wrote: > > Hi! all, > > > > Thought putting an old, retired system to good use would be better than > > letting it gather dust in a closet. And by old, I mean OOOOOLD! I > > built it 13 years ago. However, it's been upgraded many times since, > > and was still my main box running Stretch until last year. Its current > > specs: ASRock A770DE+ AM3 MB, AMD Phenom II x4 @ 3.0 GHZ, 8GB DDR2 RAM > > (max 16GB), 6 - SATA II & 1 - IDE connections, USB2.0. > > > > The problem I've run into is finding a NAS OS to run on it. They all > > seem to require UEFI. which this MB does not support. (I said it was > > old.) However, in my search I did come across OpenMediaVault which is > > a simple, lightweight NAS OS based on Debian Jessie that will work with > > either MBR or UEFI. One nice feature OMV has is it can be installed as > > a service on top of any Debian OS. So, I can use something more > > contemporary and still supported. > > > > Anyone currently using OpenMediaVault, or have recommendations for > > another package, or advice, in general, on homebuilt NAS? > > Debian with ZFS. I don't think OpenMediaVault (or Debian, for that matter) supports zfs on the initial install. OMV specifies ext3/ext4/xfs/jfs support "out of the box." However, I would think I could use zfs (just install it from Debian repo) for the storage drives after the OS is installed, but I haven't finished reading the user manual, so I could be wrong. > Not "built on two-releases-ago Debian". Current, stable Debian. That Jessie statement was from the FAQs in the user manual. So, it could be that it hasn't been updated. However, it says also you can upgrade the kernel from backports. Plus, you can install OMV on top of any Debian install, if needed. I'll do a trial install of the default software and see what I get. > I recommend making sure you have a new power supply and a UPS, > too. Cyberpower makes decent ones for reasonable prices and nut > supports them. A UPS I have. And it's relatively new. The current power supply is only a couple years old. Like I said: the box has been upgraded a lot from its original build. But thanks for the advice. Hadn't even thought about those. > Maxing out the RAM will probably only cost $10 or so, if > you can find the person in your city who hoards old RAM. Took a quick look on eBay: I'd need 4 4GB DDR2 DIMMs (have 4 2GB ones installed now). $40 or so average. But I'll start with the 8 since that's well above OMV's recommended minimum of 1GB. > nut - UPS management > samba - if you need to share files with Windows > netatalk - if you need to share files with Mac OS, or be a TimeMachine > mythtv or gerbera or kodi - home theater operations > forked-daapd - music server (has web client, speaks ITunes and > MPD and Chromecast) Thanks for info. Hadn't gotten that far as to what I would want or need after the initial setup. Get it working first, then worry about the details. ;) > Having any web server set up to serve a directory tree is > generally useful. I'm still not sure exactly what I want out of the box, but you've given a few things to consider. Thanks. B
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| From | Tom Dial <tddial@comcast.net> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2020-07-30 22:50 +0200 |
| Message-ID | <AynF0-1mR-3@gated-at.bofh.it> |
| In reply to | #225512 |
On 7/29/20 18:31, Patrick Bartek wrote: > On Wed, 29 Jul 2020 16:09:51 -0400 > Dan Ritter <dsr@randomstring.org> wrote: > >> Patrick Bartek wrote: >>> Hi! all, >>> >>> Thought putting an old, retired system to good use would be better than >>> letting it gather dust in a closet. And by old, I mean OOOOOLD! I >>> built it 13 years ago. However, it's been upgraded many times since, >>> and was still my main box running Stretch until last year. Its current >>> specs: ASRock A770DE+ AM3 MB, AMD Phenom II x4 @ 3.0 GHZ, 8GB DDR2 RAM >>> (max 16GB), 6 - SATA II & 1 - IDE connections, USB2.0. >>> >>> The problem I've run into is finding a NAS OS to run on it. They all >>> seem to require UEFI. which this MB does not support. (I said it was >>> old.) However, in my search I did come across OpenMediaVault which is >>> a simple, lightweight NAS OS based on Debian Jessie that will work with >>> either MBR or UEFI. One nice feature OMV has is it can be installed as >>> a service on top of any Debian OS. So, I can use something more >>> contemporary and still supported. >>> >>> Anyone currently using OpenMediaVault, or have recommendations for >>> another package, or advice, in general, on homebuilt NAS? >> >> Debian with ZFS. > > I don't think OpenMediaVault (or Debian, for that matter) supports zfs > on the initial install. OMV specifies ext3/ext4/xfs/jfs support "out of > the box." However, I would think I could use zfs (just install it from > Debian repo) for the storage drives after the OS is installed, but I > haven't finished reading the user manual, so I could be wrong. This depends on the meaning attached to "support." Debian does not fully support ZFS. However, the requisite Debian openzfs packages have been in the contrib repositories for several releases and can be installed normally, although the file system support has to be built from source due to license interference between GPL and the CDDL under which ZFS is released. Behavior is much like the proprietary Nvidia drivers, for example. Once installed, ZFS can be handled by its relevant utilities much the same as other file systems. It almost certainly could be used for storage drives. Installing an entire system on ZFS is a bit hands on owing to its absence from the installer. Hand on, here, is to say it is roughly equivalent to installing early Debian releases or, perhaps, Gentoo. I've done it four or five times, and after the first is is not painful, but does take an hour or so longer than a conventional install. Good instructions are found at https://openzfs.github.io/openzfs-docs/Getting%20Started/Debian/Debian%20Buster%20Root%20on%20ZFS.html ZFS is my current default for new installations and I am gradually upgrading existing installations to it. For a ZFS based NAS, you almost certainly would be rewarded by increasing memory to the 16 GiB max cited in the original post. Regards, Tom Dial > >> Not "built on two-releases-ago Debian". Current, stable Debian. > <<< Snip >>> > B >
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| From | Leslie Rhorer <lesrhorer@att.net> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2020-08-02 01:40 +0200 |
| Message-ID | <Az9gB-6OB-1@gated-at.bofh.it> |
| In reply to | #225575 |
This is one reason, among several others, why I am a big proponent of having a separate boot drive - or better yet, a boot array - from my data array. I can quickly and easily build a very plain Jane boot system using the Debian distro DVD without having to worry about inconsistencies with GRUB or any other special considerations. Upgrades are also far less worrisome. If an upgrade gets to be too fiddling (which sometimes happens), I just wipe the boot arrays and start over. It is now possible to boot ZFS under GRUB, but it is definitely not trivial. Implementing a separate boot system really pretty much is. Furthermore, by using a separate boot system, one can purchase an economical SSD (or a pair of SSDs for RAID 1 arrays) and enjoy the benefits of blazing fast booting and OS operations while also enjoying the benefits of whatever file system one likes for the large data array. I absolutely agree, no matter what the file system, I would definitely up the memory to the 16GB max, especially if this is to be a media server. On 7/30/2020 3:24 PM, Tom Dial wrote: > > > On 7/29/20 18:31, Patrick Bartek wrote: >> On Wed, 29 Jul 2020 16:09:51 -0400 >> Dan Ritter <dsr@randomstring.org> wrote: >> >>> Patrick Bartek wrote: >>>> Hi! all, >>>> >>>> Thought putting an old, retired system to good use would be better than >>>> letting it gather dust in a closet. And by old, I mean OOOOOLD! I >>>> built it 13 years ago. However, it's been upgraded many times since, >>>> and was still my main box running Stretch until last year. Its current >>>> specs: ASRock A770DE+ AM3 MB, AMD Phenom II x4 @ 3.0 GHZ, 8GB DDR2 RAM >>>> (max 16GB), 6 - SATA II & 1 - IDE connections, USB2.0. >>>> >>>> The problem I've run into is finding a NAS OS to run on it. They all >>>> seem to require UEFI. which this MB does not support. (I said it was >>>> old.) However, in my search I did come across OpenMediaVault which is >>>> a simple, lightweight NAS OS based on Debian Jessie that will work with >>>> either MBR or UEFI. One nice feature OMV has is it can be installed as >>>> a service on top of any Debian OS. So, I can use something more >>>> contemporary and still supported. >>>> >>>> Anyone currently using OpenMediaVault, or have recommendations for >>>> another package, or advice, in general, on homebuilt NAS? >>> >>> Debian with ZFS. >> >> I don't think OpenMediaVault (or Debian, for that matter) supports zfs >> on the initial install. OMV specifies ext3/ext4/xfs/jfs support "out of >> the box." However, I would think I could use zfs (just install it from >> Debian repo) for the storage drives after the OS is installed, but I >> haven't finished reading the user manual, so I could be wrong. > > This depends on the meaning attached to "support." Debian does not fully > support ZFS. However, the requisite Debian openzfs packages have been in > the contrib repositories for several releases and can be installed > normally, although the file system support has to be built from source > due to license interference between GPL and the CDDL under which ZFS is > released. Behavior is much like the proprietary Nvidia drivers, for example. > > Once installed, ZFS can be handled by its relevant utilities much the > same as other file systems. It almost certainly could be used for > storage drives. > > Installing an entire system on ZFS is a bit hands on owing to its > absence from the installer. Hand on, here, is to say it is roughly > equivalent to installing early Debian releases or, perhaps, Gentoo. I've > done it four or five times, and after the first is is not painful, but > does take an hour or so longer than a conventional install. Good > instructions are found at > > https://openzfs.github.io/openzfs-docs/Getting%20Started/Debian/Debian%20Buster%20Root%20on%20ZFS.html > > ZFS is my current default for new installations and I am gradually > upgrading existing installations to it. For a ZFS based NAS, you almost > certainly would be rewarded by increasing memory to the 16 GiB max cited > in the original post. > > Regards, > Tom Dial > >> >>> Not "built on two-releases-ago Debian". Current, stable Debian. >> > <<< Snip >>> > > >> B >>
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| From | David Christensen <dpchrist@holgerdanske.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2020-08-02 03:10 +0200 |
| Message-ID | <AzaFI-7UI-3@gated-at.bofh.it> |
| In reply to | #225717 |
On 2020-08-01 16:30, Leslie Rhorer wrote: > I am a big proponent of having a separate boot drive +1 > no matter what the file system, I would definitely up the memory to the 16GB max, 1. I try very hard not to spend money on obsolete technology. 2. I would wait until the computer is put into use and measurements indicate memory is insufficient. 3. One or more small, fast SSD's used as a ZFS cache devices and/or intent log devices can dramatically improve performance of ZFS. 4. ZFS and non-ECC memory risk the "scrub of death" scenario, which has been debated endlessly. I also ran desktop hardware as servers for many years, but decided to buy a "real" server (with ECC memory) when building a ZFS file server. The ECC is invisible, but the combination of Xeon processor, dual-channel memory, and server chips throughout provide obvious performance. David
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| From | Keith Bainbridge <ke1th3216@gmail.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2020-08-02 04:50 +0200 |
| Message-ID | <Azcet-kx-1@gated-at.bofh.it> |
| In reply to | #225720 |
On 2/8/20 11:06 am, David Christensen wrote: > On 2020-08-01 16:30, Leslie Rhorer wrote: >> I am a big proponent of having a separate boot drive > > +1 +1 more For players-around like me, it is also easier, in general terms, to multi boot. -- Keith Bainbridge keith.bainbridge.3216@gmail.com 0447 667 468
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| From | David Christensen <dpchrist@holgerdanske.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2020-08-02 06:10 +0200 |
| Message-ID | <AzdtU-1fF-3@gated-at.bofh.it> |
| In reply to | #225723 |
On 2020-08-01 19:30, Keith Bainbridge wrote: > On 2/8/20 11:06 am, David Christensen wrote: >> On 2020-08-01 16:30, Leslie Rhorer wrote: >>> I am a big proponent of having a separate boot drive >> >> +1 > > > +1 more > > For players-around like me, it is also easier, in general terms, to > multi boot. No multi-boot, one OS per drive, and mobile racks is the easiest: https://www.startech.com/HDD/Mobile-Racks/35in-Trayless-Dual-25in-SATA-Removable-Hard-Drive-Drawer~HSB220SAT25B https://www.startech.com/HDD/Mobile-Racks/25in-SATA-Removable-Hard-Drive-Bay-for-PC-Expansion-Slot~S25SLOTR David
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| From | Leslie Rhorer <lesrhorer@att.net> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2020-08-02 21:30 +0200 |
| Message-ID | <AzrQd-1sU-1@gated-at.bofh.it> |
| In reply to | #225727 |
On 8/1/2020 11:05 PM, David Christensen wrote: > On 2020-08-01 19:30, Keith Bainbridge wrote: >> On 2/8/20 11:06 am, David Christensen wrote: >>> On 2020-08-01 16:30, Leslie Rhorer wrote: >>>> I am a big proponent of having a separate boot drive >>> >>> +1 >> >> >> +1 more >> >> For players-around like me, it is also easier, in general terms, to >> multi boot. > > No multi-boot, one OS per drive, and mobile racks is the easiest: My servers only have one OS, period, although GRUB certainly does allow for multiple Operating Systems on a single system. > https://www.startech.com/HDD/Mobile-Racks/35in-Trayless-Dual-25in-SATA-Removable-Hard-Drive-Drawer~HSB220SAT25B I use those for my boot arrays. They are not terribly practical for a NAS data drive, particularly for a media server. I use a 16 drive SAS chassis for my data arrays, eight 3-1/2" drives per system, plus a spare loaded in a removable internal tray in each host chassis. It's economical, allows for vast storage, and blazingly fast.
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| From | Leslie Rhorer <lesrhorer@att.net> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2020-08-02 22:10 +0200 |
| Message-ID | <AzssW-1VH-13@gated-at.bofh.it> |
| In reply to | #225720 |
On 8/1/2020 8:06 PM, David Christensen wrote: > On 2020-08-01 16:30, Leslie Rhorer wrote: >> I am a big proponent of having a separate boot drive > > +1 > > >> no matter what the file system, I would definitely up the memory to >> the 16GB max, > > 1. I try very hard not to spend money on obsolete technology. What is "obsolete"? If a system does its job adequately, it isn't "obsolete", no matter how old it might be or how many newer bells and whistles it may fail to have. What's more, why spend $2000 or more on unnecessary hardware when $70 for a minor upgrade to older hardware will do the job perfectly well? To be sure, there comes a point where money spent on an older system that can no longer easily meet newer demands is poorly spent - maybe. Memory is often an example, as newer systems often cannot use older memory. Other upgrades, such as newer, larger drives, a new display, etc, can easily be used with a new system when the old one is finally retired. I will admit one should be very cognizant of exactly how much one is actually saving in the long run by spending money on old technology. > 2. I would wait until the computer is put into use and measurements > indicate memory is insufficient. I won't quibble with this. It's not the way I would probably handle it, but it is not an unreasonable position. > 3. One or more small, fast SSD's used as a ZFS cache devices and/or > intent log devices can dramatically improve performance of ZFS. Or lots of other things. On something like a laptop, it is virtually insane not to employ an SSD. Even a high-powered server is very well served to boot from SSDs, however, and the cost has come down so drastically, there is little justification not to employ SSDs. If I were running ZFS, I definitely would employ SSDs as cache and intent log devices. For that matter, putting md intent bitmaps on SSDs is a pretty good idea, and booting from SSDs is a really good idea no matter what the mix of file systems. > 4. ZFS and non-ECC memory risk the "scrub of death" scenario, which has > been debated endlessly. Yes. As I said, ZFS has many great features, especially for an enterprise server. For a simple NAS, not so much, I think. > I also ran desktop hardware as servers for many years, but decided to > buy a "real" server (with ECC memory) when building a ZFS file server. > The ECC is invisible, but the combination of Xeon processor, > dual-channel memory, and server chips throughout provide obvious > performance. Or not. No matter how mighty, the server will not be able to out-perform the infrastructure. My fairly humble desktop servers can easily pump out more than 4Gbps to clients, and indeed the nightly sync between the main array and the backup array proceeds at just such a rate across the two 10G optical links into my servers from the switch. The links from the switch to the hosts, however, are all either 1G or 100M. While technically, all the hosts banging out full bore together might just be able to reach the transfer limit of the server, in practical terms, there is no way that amount of data could be digested or regurgitated from the limited number of hosts on the LAN. The fact the two motherboards are not server class and are over 16 years old really doesn't matter.
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| From | Stefan Monnier <monnier@iro.umontreal.ca> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2020-08-03 06:10 +0200 |
| Message-ID | <AzzXr-6z5-3@gated-at.bofh.it> |
| In reply to | #225717 |
> I absolutely agree, no matter what the file system, I would
> definitely up the memory to the 16GB max, especially if this is to
> be a media server.
Unless you're serving some quite demanding clients, I'd expect 16GB in
an NAS to be a complete waste of money.
IOW it all depends about what kind of NAS you're designing, and with
what kind of connectivity and software.
Most commercial "home NAS" boxes have much less than 16GB of RAM, for
example (e.g. the `Asustor AS5304T` described by pcmag as "best for
power users" for 2020 has 4GB of RAM).
Stefan
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| From | Jonathan Dowland <jon+debian-user@dow.land> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2020-08-03 17:30 +0200 |
| Message-ID | <AzKzw-4Ge-9@gated-at.bofh.it> |
| In reply to | #225767 |
On Mon, Aug 03, 2020 at 12:07:32AM -0400, Stefan Monnier wrote: >> I absolutely agree, no matter what the file system, I would >> definitely up the memory to the 16GB max, especially if this is to >> be a media server. > >Unless you're serving some quite demanding clients, I'd expect 16GB in >an NAS to be a complete waste of money. > >IOW it all depends about what kind of NAS you're designing, and with >what kind of connectivity and software. > >Most commercial "home NAS" boxes have much less than 16GB of RAM, for >example (e.g. the `Asustor AS5304T` described by pcmag as "best for >power users" for 2020 has 4GB of RAM). There's certainly a perception that, for using ZFS or BTRFS, >4GiB RAM is required. I don't know whether that's actually true in practise. It's one reason I avoid both those filesystems for machines I want to Just Work. Part of the problem is one person's NAS is another person's media server, with radically different requirements. -- Please do not CC me, I am subscribed to the list. 👱🏻 Jonathan Dowland ✎ jmtd@debian.org 🔗 https://jmtd.net
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| From | Dan Ritter <dsr@randomstring.org> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2020-08-03 17:40 +0200 |
| Message-ID | <AzKJc-4Jx-23@gated-at.bofh.it> |
| In reply to | #225776 |
Jonathan Dowland wrote: > On Mon, Aug 03, 2020 at 12:07:32AM -0400, Stefan Monnier wrote: > > > I absolutely agree, no matter what the file system, I would > > > definitely up the memory to the 16GB max, especially if this is to > > > be a media server. > > > > Most commercial "home NAS" boxes have much less than 16GB of RAM, for > > example (e.g. the `Asustor AS5304T` described by pcmag as "best for > > power users" for 2020 has 4GB of RAM). > > There's certainly a perception that, for using ZFS or BTRFS, >4GiB RAM > is required. I don't know whether that's actually true in practise. It's > one reason I avoid both those filesystems for machines I want to Just > Work. Part of the problem is one person's NAS is another person's media > server, with radically different requirements. It's not a requirement. However, ZFS can and does use RAM as cache more aggressively than the kernel generally does, so more RAM is a performance improvement. -dsr-
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| From | Stefan Monnier <monnier@iro.umontreal.ca> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2020-08-03 18:40 +0200 |
| Message-ID | <AzLFf-5jg-1@gated-at.bofh.it> |
| In reply to | #225776 |
> Work. Part of the problem is one person's NAS is another person's media
> server, with radically different requirements.
And here I am, with my home server used as jukebox (running MPD) as well
as serving that same music collection via DAAPD, and my video collection
as well. Would that count as "media server"? Even if it's running on
a puny Banana Pi?
Stefan
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| From | <tomas@tuxteam.de> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2020-08-03 19:10 +0200 |
| Message-ID | <AzM8j-5Jc-21@gated-at.bofh.it> |
| In reply to | #225780 |
[Multipart message — attachments visible in raw view] — view raw
On Mon, Aug 03, 2020 at 12:36:43PM -0400, Stefan Monnier wrote: > > Work. Part of the problem is one person's NAS is another person's media > > server, with radically different requirements. > > And here I am, with my home server used as jukebox (running MPD) as well > as serving that same music collection via DAAPD, and my video collection > as well. Would that count as "media server"? Even if it's running on > a puny Banana Pi? Why not? If you count the GPU you might even outperform some old Cray ;-) Cheers - t (still practising my new non-signature ;-D
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| From | Leslie Rhorer <lesrhorer@att.net> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2020-08-03 22:00 +0200 |
| Message-ID | <AzOMO-79f-15@gated-at.bofh.it> |
| In reply to | #225782 |
On 8/3/2020 12:00 PM, tomas@tuxteam.de wrote: > On Mon, Aug 03, 2020 at 12:36:43PM -0400, Stefan Monnier wrote: >>> Work. Part of the problem is one person's NAS is another person's media >>> server, with radically different requirements. >> >> And here I am, with my home server used as jukebox (running MPD) as well >> as serving that same music collection via DAAPD, and my video collection >> as well. Would that count as "media server"? Even if it's running on >> a puny Banana Pi? > > Why not? If you count the GPU you might even outperform some old Cray ;-) Uhm no, :-) A BPi can stand as a media server, but I don't recommend it in general. A media server to a very limited number of clients does not need much I/O power, but if it needs to recode a video on the fly, a BPi is going to be really hard pressed to keep up, especially if it is attempting to serve multiple streams. Video coding in real time requires a good dose of computing ability.
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| From | <tomas@tuxteam.de> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2020-08-03 22:20 +0200 |
| Message-ID | <AzP6a-7v4-1@gated-at.bofh.it> |
| In reply to | #225785 |
[Multipart message — attachments visible in raw view] — view raw
On Mon, Aug 03, 2020 at 02:54:57PM -0500, Leslie Rhorer wrote: > On 8/3/2020 12:00 PM, tomas@tuxteam.de wrote: > >On Mon, Aug 03, 2020 at 12:36:43PM -0400, Stefan Monnier wrote: > >>>Work. Part of the problem is one person's NAS is another person's media > >>>server, with radically different requirements. > >> > >>And here I am, with my home server used as jukebox (running MPD) as well > >>as serving that same music collection via DAAPD, and my video collection > >>as well. Would that count as "media server"? Even if it's running on > >>a puny Banana Pi? > > > >Why not? If you count the GPU you might even outperform some old Cray ;-) > > Uhm no, :-) Uhm yes :-) Let's assume a lowly Banana Pi M1 [1]. It sports an Allwinner A20, which has a Mail 400 GPU; according to [2], about 1.2..5.4 GFlops/core (the A20 has two cores; I don't know if that means that it also has two GPUs). The Cray-1 (that one with the iconic design) has 160 MFlops [3], which was impressive for the time, but a safe factor 10 below our BPi hero; The Cray-2 [2] (not that iconic: the sitting bench was gone, alas) with 1.9 GFlops would at least stand a chance to not be trounced ;-) So I stand by my statement "you might outperform some old Cray". Whether it makes a good media server or not, I don't know. Media servers were quite different in Cray times :-D Cheers [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Banana_Pi#Banana_Pi_BPI-M1 [2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mali_(GPU) [3] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cray-1 [4] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cray-2 - t
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| From | Stefan Monnier <monnier@iro.umontreal.ca> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2020-08-03 23:50 +0200 |
| Message-ID | <AzQvg-8eB-21@gated-at.bofh.it> |
| In reply to | #225785 |
> A BPi can stand as a media server, but I don't recommend it in
> general. A media server to a very limited number of clients does
> not need much I/O power, but if it needs to recode a video on the
> fly, a BPi is going to be really hard pressed to keep up,
> especially if it is attempting to serve multiple streams.
In my case the videos aren't recoded on the fly by the media server, so
this is not an issue. In theory, recoding on the fly should be possible
(at least for some combinations of input/output formats), tho, using
the A20'a VPU. I never tried, tho.
Still, recoding doesn't seem to justify 15GB in addition to the 1GB of
my server.
I'm not saying 16GB can't be useful in a NAS (I don't assume my use case
to be the same as the OP's, for example), I'm just pointing out that it
can be massively overkill for some NAS scenarios, so it's a bad idea to
recommend it without first knowing what the usage will look like.
Stefan
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