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FOSS equivalents of *OLD* database and spreadsheet tools?

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  FOSS equivalents of *OLD* database and spreadsheet tools? Richard Owlett <rowlett@cloud85.net> - 2020-07-25 19:40 +0200
    Re: FOSS equivalents of *OLD* database and spreadsheet tools? Paul M Foster <paulf@quillandmouse.com> - 2020-07-25 21:00 +0200
      Re: FOSS equivalents of *OLD* database and spreadsheet tools? David Wright <deblis@lionunicorn.co.uk> - 2020-07-25 21:50 +0200
      Re: FOSS equivalents of *OLD* database and spreadsheet tools? Greg Wooledge <wooledg@eeg.ccf.org> - 2020-07-27 14:10 +0200
        Re: FOSS equivalents of *OLD* database and spreadsheet tools? Michael Stone <mstone@debian.org> - 2020-07-27 17:20 +0200
          Re: FOSS equivalents of *OLD* database and spreadsheet tools? Greg Wooledge <wooledg@eeg.ccf.org> - 2020-07-27 17:40 +0200
            Re: FOSS equivalents of *OLD* database and spreadsheet tools? Michael Stone <mstone@debian.org> - 2020-07-27 21:50 +0200
              Re: FOSS equivalents of *OLD* database and spreadsheet tools? <tomas@tuxteam.de> - 2020-07-27 22:00 +0200
                Re: FOSS equivalents of *OLD* database and spreadsheet tools? Greg Wooledge <wooledg@eeg.ccf.org> - 2020-07-27 22:10 +0200
                Re: FOSS equivalents of *OLD* database and spreadsheet tools? Michael Stone <mstone@debian.org> - 2020-07-27 22:10 +0200
                  Re: FOSS equivalents of *OLD* database and spreadsheet tools? <tomas@tuxteam.de> - 2020-07-27 22:30 +0200
                    Re: FOSS equivalents of *OLD* database and spreadsheet tools? Joe <joe@jretrading.com> - 2020-07-27 23:50 +0200
                  Re: FOSS equivalents of *OLD* database and spreadsheet tools? Joe <joe@jretrading.com> - 2020-07-27 23:40 +0200
                    Re: FOSS equivalents of *OLD* database and spreadsheet tools? Michael Stone <mstone@debian.org> - 2020-07-27 23:50 +0200
                      Re: FOSS equivalents of *OLD* database and spreadsheet tools? Joe <joe@jretrading.com> - 2020-07-27 23:50 +0200
                      Re: FOSS equivalents of *OLD* database and spreadsheet tools? mick crane <mick.crane@gmail.com> - 2020-07-28 09:00 +0200
              Re: FOSS equivalents of *OLD* database and spreadsheet tools? David Wright <deblis@lionunicorn.co.uk> - 2020-07-28 00:30 +0200
                Re: FOSS equivalents of *OLD* database and spreadsheet tools? rhkramer@gmail.com - 2020-07-28 04:00 +0200
                  Re: FOSS equivalents of *OLD* database and spreadsheet tools? Nicholas Geovanis <nickgeovanis@gmail.com> - 2020-07-28 05:00 +0200
                    Re: FOSS equivalents of *OLD* database and spreadsheet tools? Nicholas Geovanis <nickgeovanis@gmail.com> - 2020-07-28 05:10 +0200
                  Re: FOSS equivalents of *OLD* database and spreadsheet tools? Miles Fidelman <mfidelman@meetinghouse.net> - 2020-07-28 09:20 +0200
          Re: FOSS equivalents of *OLD* database and spreadsheet tools? David Wright <deblis@lionunicorn.co.uk> - 2020-07-27 17:50 +0200
          Re: FOSS equivalents of *OLD* database and spreadsheet tools? <tomas@tuxteam.de> - 2020-07-27 18:10 +0200
          Re: FOSS equivalents of *OLD* database and spreadsheet tools? Miles Fidelman <mfidelman@meetinghouse.net> - 2020-07-27 18:40 +0200
    Re: FOSS equivalents of *OLD* database and spreadsheet tools? <tomas@tuxteam.de> - 2020-07-25 21:10 +0200
      Re: FOSS equivalents of *OLD* database and spreadsheet tools? Miles Fidelman <mfidelman@meetinghouse.net> - 2020-07-25 21:30 +0200
    Re: FOSS equivalents of *OLD* database and spreadsheet tools? Joe <joe@jretrading.com> - 2020-07-25 22:30 +0200
      Re: FOSS equivalents of *OLD* database and spreadsheet tools? David Christensen <dpchrist@holgerdanske.com> - 2020-07-26 00:00 +0200
        Re: FOSS equivalents of *OLD* database and spreadsheet tools? Joe <joe@jretrading.com> - 2020-07-26 10:00 +0200
          Re: FOSS equivalents of *OLD* database and spreadsheet tools? mick crane <mick.crane@gmail.com> - 2020-07-26 12:10 +0200
            Re: FOSS equivalents of *OLD* database and spreadsheet tools? Joe <joe@jretrading.com> - 2020-07-26 15:30 +0200
            Re: FOSS equivalents of *OLD* database and spreadsheet tools? David Christensen <dpchrist@holgerdanske.com> - 2020-07-27 09:10 +0200
    Re: FOSS equivalents of *OLD* database and spreadsheet tools? David Christensen <dpchrist@holgerdanske.com> - 2020-07-25 22:30 +0200
    Re: FOSS equivalents of *OLD* database and spreadsheet tools? rhkramer@gmail.com - 2020-07-25 23:00 +0200
    Re: FOSS equivalents of *OLD* database and spreadsheet tools? Michael Stone <mstone@debian.org> - 2020-07-26 16:30 +0200
      Re: FOSS equivalents of *OLD* database and spreadsheet tools? <tomas@tuxteam.de> - 2020-07-26 16:50 +0200
      Re: FOSS equivalents of *OLD* database and spreadsheet tools? Joe <joe@jretrading.com> - 2020-07-26 20:00 +0200
        Re: FOSS equivalents of *OLD* database and spreadsheet tools? Michael Stone <mstone@debian.org> - 2020-07-26 20:20 +0200
    Re: FOSS equivalents of *OLD* database and spreadsheet tools? Ajith R <ajithramayyan@yahoo.co.in> - 2020-07-27 16:20 +0200
    Re: FOSS equivalents of *OLD* database and spreadsheet tools? Eric S Fraga <e.fraga@ucl.ac.uk> - 2020-07-27 17:20 +0200
      [Interim Solution] Re: FOSS equivalents of *OLD* database and  spreadsheet tools? Richard Owlett <rowlett@cloud85.net> - 2020-07-29 11:50 +0200
        Re: [Interim Solution] Re: FOSS equivalents of *OLD* database and  spreadsheet tools? mick crane <mick.crane@gmail.com> - 2020-07-29 12:20 +0200
        Re: [Interim Solution] Re: FOSS equivalents of *OLD* database and  spreadsheet tools? Joe <joe@jretrading.com> - 2020-07-29 13:20 +0200
          Re: [Interim Solution] Re: FOSS equivalents of *OLD* database and  spreadsheet tools? Richard Owlett <rowlett@cloud85.net> - 2020-07-29 14:10 +0200
            Re: [Interim Solution] Re: FOSS equivalents of *OLD* database and  spreadsheet tools? David Christensen <dpchrist@holgerdanske.com> - 2020-07-29 22:10 +0200
              Re: [Interim Solution] Re: FOSS equivalents of *OLD* database and  spreadsheet tools? <tomas@tuxteam.de> - 2020-07-30 11:40 +0200
            Re: [Interim Solution] Re: FOSS equivalents of *OLD* database and  spreadsheet tools? Tom Dial <tddial@comcast.net> - 2020-07-30 22:20 +0200
        Re: [Interim Solution] Re: FOSS equivalents of *OLD* database and spreadsheet tools? Eric S Fraga <e.fraga@ucl.ac.uk> - 2020-07-30 11:30 +0200
          Re: [Interim Solution] Re: FOSS equivalents of *OLD* database and  spreadsheet tools? Richard Owlett <rowlett@cloud85.net> - 2020-07-30 13:20 +0200
            Re: [Interim Solution] Re: FOSS equivalents of *OLD* database and spreadsheet tools? Eric S Fraga <e.fraga@ucl.ac.uk> - 2020-07-30 16:20 +0200
          Re: [Interim Solution] Re: FOSS equivalents of *OLD* database and  spreadsheet tools? Miles Fidelman <mfidelman@meetinghouse.net> - 2020-07-30 17:00 +0200
            Re: [Interim Solution] Re: FOSS equivalents of *OLD* database and  spreadsheet tools? Richard Owlett <rowlett@cloud85.net> - 2020-07-30 17:10 +0200
            Re: [Interim Solution] Re: FOSS equivalents of *OLD* database and  spreadsheet tools? Joe <joe@jretrading.com> - 2020-07-30 19:40 +0200
      Re: FOSS equivalents of *OLD* database and spreadsheet tools? Richard Owlett <rowlett@cloud85.net> - 2020-07-30 14:50 +0200
        Re: FOSS equivalents of *OLD* database and spreadsheet          tools? Linux-Fan <Ma_Sys.ma@web.de> - 2020-07-30 15:10 +0200
          Re: FOSS equivalents of *OLD* database and spreadsheet tools? Richard Owlett <rowlett@cloud85.net> - 2020-07-30 16:10 +0200
      Example(s) of recutils project flow? - was [FOSS equivalents of *OLD*  database and spreadsheet tools?] Richard Owlett <rowlett@cloud85.net> - 2020-08-07 13:40 +0200
        Re: Example(s) of recutils project flow? - was [FOSS equivalents of  *OLD* database and spreadsheet tools?] David <bouncingcats@gmail.com> - 2020-08-07 13:50 +0200
          Re: Example(s) of recutils project flow? - was [FOSS equivalents of  *OLD* database and spreadsheet tools?] Richard Owlett <rowlett@cloud85.net> - 2020-08-07 14:40 +0200
            Re: Example(s) of recutils project flow? - was [FOSS equivalents of  *OLD* database and spreadsheet tools?] Andrei POPESCU <andreimpopescu@gmail.com> - 2020-08-11 12:30 +0200

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#225254 — FOSS equivalents of *OLD* database and spreadsheet tools?

Back in 70's/80's I wrote programs as part of routine job duties.
   {8080/8085 assembler, dBase and Paradox}
Neither I, nor my employers, classed me as a "programmer".
I was "Senior Engineering Tech" or "Junior Engineer".
IOW, I was not in abject *AWE* of computers. *ROFL*

Right now I'm working on a personal project.
INPUT:	How much of what did I eat?
OUTPUT:	How much [cal/protein/fiber] did I eat?

SQL {and variants} seen to dominate all else.
IIRC, dBase was simpler.

What current FOSS system might I be comfortable with?

TIA

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#225257

On Sat, Jul 25, 2020 at 12:38:10PM -0500, Richard Owlett wrote:

> Back in 70's/80's I wrote programs as part of routine job duties.
>   {8080/8085 assembler, dBase and Paradox}
> Neither I, nor my employers, classed me as a "programmer".
> I was "Senior Engineering Tech" or "Junior Engineer".
> IOW, I was not in abject *AWE* of computers. *ROFL*
> 
> Right now I'm working on a personal project.
> INPUT:	How much of what did I eat?
> OUTPUT:	How much [cal/protein/fiber] did I eat?
> 
> SQL {and variants} seen to dominate all else.
> IIRC, dBase was simpler.
> 
> What current FOSS system might I be comfortable with?
> 

I used dBase (FoxPro) and Paradox decades ago. My advice: learn SQL and
select the DBMS of your choice. SQLite3, PostgreSQL, MySQL. For
portability and low traffic, I'd select SQLite3.

Gone are the days of xBase and the like. SQL is the lingua franca for
all modern database systems. And SQLite3 has bindings for most modern
languages.

Since you probably would like an application with a nice interface
(curses, GUI, web), I'd suggest PHP. The platform for your interface is
in the server and the browser; you just have to write some HTML, which
is pretty easy. Otherwise, you're looking at fiddly code with GTK or QT
(or ncurses).

Paul

-- 
Paul M. Foster
http://noferblatz.com
http://quillandmouse.com

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#225260

On Sat 25 Jul 2020 at 14:45:58 (-0400), Paul M Foster wrote:
> On Sat, Jul 25, 2020 at 12:38:10PM -0500, Richard Owlett wrote:
> 
> > Back in 70's/80's I wrote programs as part of routine job duties.
> >   {8080/8085 assembler, dBase and Paradox}
> > Neither I, nor my employers, classed me as a "programmer".
> > I was "Senior Engineering Tech" or "Junior Engineer".
> > IOW, I was not in abject *AWE* of computers. *ROFL*
> > 
> > Right now I'm working on a personal project.
> > INPUT:	How much of what did I eat?
> > OUTPUT:	How much [cal/protein/fiber] did I eat?
> > 
> > SQL {and variants} seen to dominate all else.
> > IIRC, dBase was simpler.
> > 
> > What current FOSS system might I be comfortable with?
> > 
> I used dBase (FoxPro) and Paradox decades ago. My advice: learn SQL and
> select the DBMS of your choice. SQLite3, PostgreSQL, MySQL. For
> portability and low traffic, I'd select SQLite3.

I think I indirectly made that suggestion in this thread
https://lists.debian.org/debian-user/2018/07/msg00057.html
which referred back to the OP's own thread
https://lists.debian.org/debian-user/2018/06/msg00757.html

> Gone are the days of xBase and the like. SQL is the lingua franca for
> all modern database systems. And SQLite3 has bindings for most modern
> languages.
> 
> Since you probably would like an application with a nice interface

One can never be sure: the OP seems pretty fearless when it comes to CLIs.

> (curses, GUI, web), I'd suggest PHP. The platform for your interface is
> in the server and the browser; you just have to write some HTML, which
> is pretty easy. Otherwise, you're looking at fiddly code with GTK or QT
> (or ncurses).

Cheers,
David.

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#225320

On Sat, Jul 25, 2020 at 02:45:58PM -0400, Paul M Foster wrote:
> Since you probably would like an application with a nice interface
> (curses, GUI, web), I'd suggest PHP. The platform for your interface is
> in the server and the browser; you just have to write some HTML, which
> is pretty easy. Otherwise, you're looking at fiddly code with GTK or QT
> (or ncurses).

PHP is a terrible language, and I wouldn't recommend it as a starting
point for anything but failure.  Also, I wouldn't assume that the OP
wants a web interface.  If anything, he probably wants a command line
tool that only runs on localhost.  (And then he'll tack on new insane
restrictions later.  "Of course I wanted it to run on a 20x2 LCD!
And it has to fit on a 5.25" floppy!  You should have known that!!")

Crazy undocumented criteria aside, Tcl, Perl and Python would all suit
this project extremely well, I think.  The OP should choose whichever
of those 3 he likes best, and learn how to talk to a database with it.
If a pure command line interface is desired, then there's not much else he
needs to know.  If a GUI interface is desired, all 3 of those languages
have Tk bindings.

For a project of this size and scope, a Tcl application with an sqlite3
database in a local file seems well suited.

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#225347

On Mon, Jul 27, 2020 at 08:09:36AM -0400, Greg Wooledge wrote:
>For a project of this size and scope, a Tcl application with an sqlite3
>database in a local file seems well suited.

Only on the internet can someone ask a simple question and get tcl as 
the answer. :-/

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#225352

On Mon, Jul 27, 2020 at 11:16:45AM -0400, Michael Stone wrote:
> On Mon, Jul 27, 2020 at 08:09:36AM -0400, Greg Wooledge wrote:
> > For a project of this size and scope, a Tcl application with an sqlite3
> > database in a local file seems well suited.
> 
> Only on the internet can someone ask a simple question and get tcl as the
> answer. :-/

OK, here's a quick program to show how it might be done.  The interface
is quite primitive, but it's a proof of concept.

You need to install the libsqlite3-tcl package, if you're using Debian's
version of Tcl.  If you compile Tcl from upstream source, this package
is included by default.

Here's the program:

=========================================================
#!/usr/bin/tclsh8.6
package require sqlite3
set dbfile ./food.db

proc usage {} {
    global argv0
    puts stderr "usage: $argv0 {add|print|dump} arguments"
    exit 1
}

if {[file exists $dbfile]} {
    sqlite3 db $dbfile
} else {
    sqlite3 db $dbfile
    db eval {create table food (name text, calories real)}
}

lassign $argv cmd food cals
switch -- $cmd {
    add {
	if {[llength $argv] != 3} {usage}
	db eval {insert into food(name, calories) values (:food, :cals)}
    }
    print {
	if {[llength $argv] != 2} {usage}
	db eval {select calories from food where name = :food} v {}
	if {! [info exists v(calories)]} {
	    puts stderr "Food '$food' not found"
	    exit 1
	}
	puts $v(calories)
    }
    dump {
	db eval {select name, calories from food order by name} v {
	    puts [format "%-30.30s %f" $v(name) $v(calories)]
	}
    }
    default {usage}
}
=========================================================

And running it:

unicorn:~$ ./foo
usage: ./foo {add|print|dump} arguments
unicorn:~$ ./foo add pretzels 50
unicorn:~$ ./foo add corn 30
unicorn:~$ ./foo print corn
30.0
unicorn:~$ ./foo print 'potato chips'
Food 'potato chips' not found
unicorn:~$ ./foo dump
corn                           30.000000
pretzels                       50.000000
unicorn:~$ ls -l food.db
-rw-r--r-- 1 greg greg 8192 Jul 27 11:31 food.db
unicorn:~$ ./foo add corn 35
unicorn:~$ ./foo dump
corn                           30.000000
corn                           35.000000
pretzels                       50.000000

Oops.  Looks like we should consider making the name a unique index.
Well, you can add that to your version.

Do you consider this "difficult"?  If so, you are probably approaching
this problem as a non-programmer, in which case I don't know what to
tell you.  Programming languages exist for a reason, and Tcl is one of
the easiest ones for this particular job.

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#225380

On Mon, Jul 27, 2020 at 11:39:11AM -0400, Greg Wooledge wrote:
>On Mon, Jul 27, 2020 at 11:16:45AM -0400, Michael Stone wrote:
>> On Mon, Jul 27, 2020 at 08:09:36AM -0400, Greg Wooledge wrote:
>> > For a project of this size and scope, a Tcl application with an sqlite3
>> > database in a local file seems well suited.
>>
>> Only on the internet can someone ask a simple question and get tcl as the
>> answer. :-/
>
>OK, here's a quick program to show how it might be done.

The question wasn't "what's your favorite programming language", was it?

Even then, I'd be hard-pressed to recommend tcl as the thing to learn in 
2020, but that's beside the point.

>Do you consider this "difficult"?  If so, you are probably approaching
>this problem as a non-programmer, in which case I don't know what to
>tell you.  Programming languages exist for a reason, and Tcl is one of
>the easiest ones for this particular job.

Did you read the original question or use dbase back in the day? 

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#225383

[Multipart message — attachments visible in raw view] — view raw

On Mon, Jul 27, 2020 at 03:46:08PM -0400, Michael Stone wrote:
> On Mon, Jul 27, 2020 at 11:39:11AM -0400, Greg Wooledge wrote:

[...]

> >OK, here's a quick program to show how it might be done.
> 
> The question wasn't "what's your favorite programming language", was it?

To be fair, the question wasn't what your favourite programming
language is *not* ;-P

And, in Greg's defense, he provided some code, something no
one of us did -- I'd say this round goes to him ;-)

Cheers
-- t

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#225384

On Mon, Jul 27, 2020 at 04:04:16PM -0400, Michael Stone wrote:
> On Mon, Jul 27, 2020 at 09:52:28PM +0200, tomas@tuxteam.de wrote:
> > And, in Greg's defense, he provided some code, something no
> > one of us did -- I'd say this round goes to him ;-)
> 
> How? The OP request was for something simpler than SQL (presumably because
> he didn't want to learn SQL?), so the response "learn SQL anyway, and in
> addition learn my favorite language as a way to pass the SQL commands to the
> backend" simply misses the point.

It's a language the OP has already stated they're learning (in a past
thread -- we understand if you do not have this context).  In addition,
learning SQL is the right long term solution.

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#225385

On Mon, Jul 27, 2020 at 09:52:28PM +0200, tomas@tuxteam.de wrote:
>And, in Greg's defense, he provided some code, something no
>one of us did -- I'd say this round goes to him ;-)

How? The OP request was for something simpler than SQL (presumably 
because he didn't want to learn SQL?), so the response "learn SQL 
anyway, and in addition learn my favorite language as a way to pass 
the SQL commands to the backend" simply misses the point.

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#225387

[Multipart message — attachments visible in raw view] — view raw

On Mon, Jul 27, 2020 at 04:04:16PM -0400, Michael Stone wrote:
> On Mon, Jul 27, 2020 at 09:52:28PM +0200, tomas@tuxteam.de wrote:
> >And, in Greg's defense, he provided some code, something no
> >one of us did -- I'd say this round goes to him ;-)
> 
> How? The OP request was for something simpler than SQL [...]

Whatever. I was a bit tongue-in-cheek anyway, illustrated by
emoticon.

Far more "interesting" proposals have crossed this thread,
including a full LAMP stack (witt PHP to learn, a web server
to administer and a browser to eat all available RAM -- uh
as a client). You jumped at Tcl, which somehow suggests you
have some peeve with it. /My/ peeve is "don't do that", so
I jumped at it, hopefully in a sufficiently humorous way to
not hurt anyone.

The OP is old enough to pick and choose.

Or something. But don't take me too seriously.

Cheers
-- t

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#225391

On Mon, 27 Jul 2020 22:22:12 +0200
<tomas@tuxteam.de> wrote:

> On Mon, Jul 27, 2020 at 04:04:16PM -0400, Michael Stone wrote:
> > On Mon, Jul 27, 2020 at 09:52:28PM +0200, tomas@tuxteam.de wrote:  
> > >And, in Greg's defense, he provided some code, something no
> > >one of us did -- I'd say this round goes to him ;-)  
> > 
> > How? The OP request was for something simpler than SQL [...]  
> 
> Whatever. I was a bit tongue-in-cheek anyway, illustrated by
> emoticon.
> 
> Far more "interesting" proposals have crossed this thread,
> including a full LAMP stack (witt PHP to learn, a web server
> to administer and a browser to eat all available RAM -- uh
> as a client). You jumped at Tcl, which somehow suggests you
> have some peeve with it. /My/ peeve is "don't do that", so
> I jumped at it, hopefully in a sufficiently humorous way to
> not hurt anyone.
> 
> The OP is old enough to pick and choose.
> 
> Or something. But don't take me too seriously.
> 
>

In a forum like this it *is* appropriate to suggest alternatives that
don't fully answer the question as asked, as it is archived and
available publicly. Not all questions posed, along with their
constraints, have a practical answer, and questions often have
constraints which become irrelevant if an alternative view is taken.

And if not exposed to the Net, a web server doesn't need much
administration. If you want a Net presence, hire it, let someone else
worry about getting hacked.

-- 
Joe

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#225390

On Mon, 27 Jul 2020 16:04:16 -0400
Michael Stone <mstone@debian.org> wrote:

> On Mon, Jul 27, 2020 at 09:52:28PM +0200, tomas@tuxteam.de wrote:
> >And, in Greg's defense, he provided some code, something no
> >one of us did -- I'd say this round goes to him ;-)  
> 
> How? The OP request was for something simpler than SQL (presumably 
> because he didn't want to learn SQL?), so the response "learn SQL 
> anyway, and in addition learn my favorite language as a way to pass 
> the SQL commands to the backend" simply misses the point.
> 

The OP is in a learning experience, it's what retirement is for.

Very basic SQL, no more than a few queries, is an appropriate thing to
learn, along with the (minimal) care and feeding of MySQL/MariaDb. I've
never really gone beyond select, insert, delete and update queries,
resorting to Google to temporarily learn to add users, change
privileges etc. As a hobbyist, I've never needed to go near stored
procedures, transactions etc.

I was once SQLphobic, avoiding the use of applications which required a
MySQL database, looking around for 'simpler' ways to do things, which
invariably required more work. Eventually I was forced into it, and I
currently have more than 20 domestic, business and experimental
databases running in MariaDb. I added another a week ago, and when I
work up the enthusiasm, I'll make a user interface for it. I have at
least one database whose only user interface is PhpMyAdmin...

-- 
Joe

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#225392

On Mon, Jul 27, 2020 at 10:34:39PM +0100, Joe wrote:
>The OP is in a learning experience, it's what retirement is for.

Huh. I thought it was for doing what you want instead of what other 
people tell you that you "have to" do. 

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#225393

On Mon, 27 Jul 2020 17:46:35 -0400
Michael Stone <mstone@debian.org> wrote:

> On Mon, Jul 27, 2020 at 10:34:39PM +0100, Joe wrote:
> >The OP is in a learning experience, it's what retirement is for.  
> 
> Huh. I thought it was for doing what you want instead of what other 
> people tell you that you "have to" do. 
> 

He does.

-- 
Joe

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#225406

On 2020-07-27 22:46, Michael Stone wrote:
> On Mon, Jul 27, 2020 at 10:34:39PM +0100, Joe wrote:
>> The OP is in a learning experience, it's what retirement is for.
> 
> Huh. I thought it was for doing what you want instead of what other
> people tell you that you "have to" do.

That's funny considering government response to Covid-19.

mick
-- 
Key ID    4BFEBB31

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#225397

On Mon 27 Jul 2020 at 15:46:08 (-0400), Michael Stone wrote:
> On Mon, Jul 27, 2020 at 11:39:11AM -0400, Greg Wooledge wrote:
> > On Mon, Jul 27, 2020 at 11:16:45AM -0400, Michael Stone wrote:
> > > On Mon, Jul 27, 2020 at 08:09:36AM -0400, Greg Wooledge wrote:
> > > > For a project of this size and scope, a Tcl application with an sqlite3
> > > > database in a local file seems well suited.
> > > 
> > > Only on the internet can someone ask a simple question and get tcl as the
> > > answer. :-/
> > 
> > OK, here's a quick program to show how it might be done.
> 
> The question wasn't "what's your favorite programming language", was it?
> 
> Even then, I'd be hard-pressed to recommend tcl as the thing to learn
> in 2020, but that's beside the point.
> 
> > Do you consider this "difficult"?  If so, you are probably approaching
> > this problem as a non-programmer, in which case I don't know what to
> > tell you.  Programming languages exist for a reason, and Tcl is one of
> > the easiest ones for this particular job.
> 
> Did you read the original question or use dbase back in the day?

I, for one, read the question a previous time that it was posed:
https://lists.debian.org/debian-user/2017/02/msg01024.html
That reference is somewhere mid-thread, and this time I'll quote
it to save your looking it up:

   "A little research indicates that Tcl/Tk plays well with sqlite.
    A couple of years ago I started learning it for a now abandoned
    project. I'll follow up on that combo. [I looked at some code
    fragments on http://wiki.tcl.tk . They were reminiscent of what
    I did in dBaseII so may be a productive path.]" — Richard Owlett

Cheers,
David.

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#225402

Somebody wrote:
> But... isn't the tool the least of your problems?  The big one being,
> where are you going to get your nutritional database. (Seems to me that
> most of what Weight Watchers and Noom do is collect data on millions of
> products.)

From my records in my free format database (which would not be suitable for 
your program (at least not in its present condition), some notes on available 
databases.

From "USDA databases" Thu Sep 08 06:57:41 2016 
Date: 09/08/16 06:57 am 
Subject: USDA databases

There is documentation available to explain how the databases are organized, 
what they contain, etc.  Several different formats are available (ASCII text, 
Access, etc.) Statistical information (e.g., standard deviation) is available 
for some data.

   * [[http://www.ars.usda.gov/Services/docs.htm?docid=8964][USDA National 
Nutrient Database for Standard Reference: Release 28]]

   * 
[[http://www.ars.usda.gov/sp2UserFiles/Place/80400525/Data/SR/SR28/sr28_doc.pdf]
[Composition of Foods: Raw, Processed, Prepared; USDA National Nutrient 
Database for Standard Reference, Release 28 (2015); Documentation and User 
Guide]]

   * [[https://ndb.nal.usda.gov/ndb/docs/SR_BrandedFoods_May2016.pdf][USDA 
Branded Food Products Database; Documentation; May 2016]]--an experimental 
public / private partnership, dissolved in 2015 (iirc) after developing data 
for 354 products, incorporated as an adjunct (iiuc) to the USDA database SR28

   * [[https://www.ars.usda.gov/Services/docs.htm?docid=24912][SR27 - Download 
Files]]

And, from some documentation on CRON-O-Meter (which is a program like you're 
describing, available in an online version and a Linux version:

<quote>
The foods in our database come from several sources.

   * NCCDB (Nutrition Coordinating Center Food & Nutrient Database) from the 
University of Minnesota, contains over 16000 food entries with comprehensive 
data on 70 nutrients.

   * USDA (SR28) (United States Department of Agriculture National Nutrient 
Database for Standard Reference (SR28)) contains over 8000 food entries with 
data on over 70 nutrients.

   * ESHA (ESHA Research, Inc.) contains over 35000 brand name products and 
restaurant menu items. These items don't typically have as full of a nutrient 
profile as the USDA and NCCDB items, but contain all the published information 
from the product nutrition labels--I don't know how many nutrients--may vary.

   * ???? Nutritionix: barcode scanning database, contains data for over 
400,000 food product nutrition labels--I don't know how many nutrients--may 
vary. Nutritionix API

   * CNF 2010 (Canadian Nutrient File)
    This data has a lot of overlap with the USDA data (many entries are 
derived it), but adds a lot of additional foods, as well as reflecting 
differences found in Canadian foods. It has french and english names for all 
items, as well as standard measures in metric units--I don't know how many 
nutrients--may vary.

   * IFCDB (Irish Food Composition Database) contains nearly 1000 irish food 
and supplement products--I don't know how many nutrients--may vary.
    
   * CRDB (CRON-O-Meter Community Database) foods submitted by CRON-O-Meter 
users (they show green in the food search dialog)--I don't know how many 
nutrients--may vary. 
    
   * Custom
    These are your custom foods. These are private and can only be viewed and 
used by you, or any friends you have linked to for food-sharing--nutrients 
included may vary based on where I got the data (I mean, like from which of 
the databases listed below.
</quote>

One of my points is that data / databases are available.

I'm also willing to share with you my file on my experiences with this type of 
program.  NUT is available for LInux, but it was really freaky -- for example, 
you had to specify how many meals per day you intended to eat (for this 
example, assume 6, 3 meals, 3 between meal snacks, and then when you entered 
the first meal it multiplied all the nutritional values by 6.  I forget what it 
did as you entered the other meals.

CRON-O-Meter was much better, but not really good enough to suit me.

I experimented with possibly as many as 10 such programs that I could run 
without touching Windows.  One of them (I forget which) tracked something like 
60 different nutrients, things like micrograms and such of minerals, vitamins, 
...

If you're really interested, I can make my file with my notes in it available 
to you.

You can treat it as a plain text file, or read it as emails in any email client 
that can handle mbox files, or, with a special file I can provide, read it in 
kate with the   features I intended it to have (syntax highlighting and 
folding).

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#225403

[Multipart message — attachments visible in raw view] — view raw

There used to be an open-sourced version of Clipper, wasn't there? That was
the dBase 3 compiler from a 3rd party. Did that go extinct?

On Mon, Jul 27, 2020, 8:59 PM <rhkramer@gmail.com> wrote:

> Somebody wrote:
> > But... isn't the tool the least of your problems?  The big one being,
> > where are you going to get your nutritional database. (Seems to me that
> > most of what Weight Watchers and Noom do is collect data on millions of
> > products.)
>
> From my records in my free format database (which would not be suitable
> for
> your program (at least not in its present condition), some notes on
> available
> databases.
>
> From "USDA databases" Thu Sep 08 06:57:41 2016
> Date: 09/08/16 06:57 am
> Subject: USDA databases
>
> There is documentation available to explain how the databases are
> organized,
> what they contain, etc.  Several different formats are available (ASCII
> text,
> Access, etc.) Statistical information (e.g., standard deviation) is
> available
> for some data.
>
>    * [[http://www.ars.usda.gov/Services/docs.htm?docid=8964][USDA
> National
> Nutrient Database for Standard Reference: Release 28]]
>
>    *
> [[
> http://www.ars.usda.gov/sp2UserFiles/Place/80400525/Data/SR/SR28/sr28_doc.pdf
> ]
> [Composition of Foods: Raw, Processed, Prepared; USDA National Nutrient
> Database for Standard Reference, Release 28 (2015); Documentation and User
> Guide]]
>
>    * [[https://ndb.nal.usda.gov/ndb/docs/SR_BrandedFoods_May2016.pdf][USDA
> Branded Food Products Database; Documentation; May 2016]]--an experimental
> public / private partnership, dissolved in 2015 (iirc) after developing
> data
> for 354 products, incorporated as an adjunct (iiuc) to the USDA database
> SR28
>
>    * [[https://www.ars.usda.gov/Services/docs.htm?docid=24912][SR27 -
> Download
> Files]]
>
> And, from some documentation on CRON-O-Meter (which is a program like
> you're
> describing, available in an online version and a Linux version:
>
> <quote>
> The foods in our database come from several sources.
>
>    * NCCDB (Nutrition Coordinating Center Food & Nutrient Database) from
> the
> University of Minnesota, contains over 16000 food entries with
> comprehensive
> data on 70 nutrients.
>
>    * USDA (SR28) (United States Department of Agriculture National
> Nutrient
> Database for Standard Reference (SR28)) contains over 8000 food entries
> with
> data on over 70 nutrients.
>
>    * ESHA (ESHA Research, Inc.) contains over 35000 brand name products
> and
> restaurant menu items. These items don't typically have as full of a
> nutrient
> profile as the USDA and NCCDB items, but contain all the published
> information
> from the product nutrition labels--I don't know how many nutrients--may
> vary.
>
>    * ???? Nutritionix: barcode scanning database, contains data for over
> 400,000 food product nutrition labels--I don't know how many
> nutrients--may
> vary. Nutritionix API
>
>    * CNF 2010 (Canadian Nutrient File)
>     This data has a lot of overlap with the USDA data (many entries are
> derived it), but adds a lot of additional foods, as well as reflecting
> differences found in Canadian foods. It has french and english names for
> all
> items, as well as standard measures in metric units--I don't know how many
> nutrients--may vary.
>
>    * IFCDB (Irish Food Composition Database) contains nearly 1000 irish
> food
> and supplement products--I don't know how many nutrients--may vary.
>
>    * CRDB (CRON-O-Meter Community Database) foods submitted by
> CRON-O-Meter
> users (they show green in the food search dialog)--I don't know how many
> nutrients--may vary.
>
>    * Custom
>     These are your custom foods. These are private and can only be viewed
> and
> used by you, or any friends you have linked to for food-sharing--nutrients
> included may vary based on where I got the data (I mean, like from which
> of
> the databases listed below.
> </quote>
>
> One of my points is that data / databases are available.
>
> I'm also willing to share with you my file on my experiences with this
> type of
> program.  NUT is available for LInux, but it was really freaky -- for
> example,
> you had to specify how many meals per day you intended to eat (for this
> example, assume 6, 3 meals, 3 between meal snacks, and then when you
> entered
> the first meal it multiplied all the nutritional values by 6.  I forget
> what it
> did as you entered the other meals.
>
> CRON-O-Meter was much better, but not really good enough to suit me.
>
> I experimented with possibly as many as 10 such programs that I could run
> without touching Windows.  One of them (I forget which) tracked something
> like
> 60 different nutrients, things like micrograms and such of minerals,
> vitamins,
> ...
>
> If you're really interested, I can make my file with my notes in it
> available
> to you.
>
> You can treat it as a plain text file, or read it as emails in any email
> client
> that can handle mbox files, or, with a special file I can provide, read it
> in
> kate with the   features I intended it to have (syntax highlighting and
> folding).
>
>
>
>
>
>

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#225404

[Multipart message — attachments visible in raw view] — view raw

Yes, the Harbour project.
https://harbour.github.io/

On Mon, Jul 27, 2020, 9:57 PM Nicholas Geovanis <nickgeovanis@gmail.com>
wrote:

> There used to be an open-sourced version of Clipper, wasn't there? That
> was the dBase 3 compiler from a 3rd party. Did that go extinct?
>
> On Mon, Jul 27, 2020, 8:59 PM <rhkramer@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> Somebody wrote:
>> > But... isn't the tool the least of your problems?  The big one being,
>> > where are you going to get your nutritional database. (Seems to me that
>> > most of what Weight Watchers and Noom do is collect data on millions of
>> > products.)
>>
>> From my records in my free format database (which would not be suitable
>> for
>> your program (at least not in its present condition), some notes on
>> available
>> databases.
>>
>> From "USDA databases" Thu Sep 08 06:57:41 2016
>> Date: 09/08/16 06:57 am
>> Subject: USDA databases
>>
>> There is documentation available to explain how the databases are
>> organized,
>> what they contain, etc.  Several different formats are available (ASCII
>> text,
>> Access, etc.) Statistical information (e.g., standard deviation) is
>> available
>> for some data.
>>
>>    * [[http://www.ars.usda.gov/Services/docs.htm?docid=8964][USDA
>> National
>> Nutrient Database for Standard Reference: Release 28]]
>>
>>    *
>> [[
>> http://www.ars.usda.gov/sp2UserFiles/Place/80400525/Data/SR/SR28/sr28_doc.pdf
>> ]
>> [Composition of Foods: Raw, Processed, Prepared; USDA National Nutrient
>> Database for Standard Reference, Release 28 (2015); Documentation and
>> User
>> Guide]]
>>
>>    * [[
>> https://ndb.nal.usda.gov/ndb/docs/SR_BrandedFoods_May2016.pdf][USDA
>> Branded Food Products Database; Documentation; May 2016]]--an
>> experimental
>> public / private partnership, dissolved in 2015 (iirc) after developing
>> data
>> for 354 products, incorporated as an adjunct (iiuc) to the USDA database
>> SR28
>>
>>    * [[https://www.ars.usda.gov/Services/docs.htm?docid=24912][SR27 -
>> Download
>> Files]]
>>
>> And, from some documentation on CRON-O-Meter (which is a program like
>> you're
>> describing, available in an online version and a Linux version:
>>
>> <quote>
>> The foods in our database come from several sources.
>>
>>    * NCCDB (Nutrition Coordinating Center Food & Nutrient Database) from
>> the
>> University of Minnesota, contains over 16000 food entries with
>> comprehensive
>> data on 70 nutrients.
>>
>>    * USDA (SR28) (United States Department of Agriculture National
>> Nutrient
>> Database for Standard Reference (SR28)) contains over 8000 food entries
>> with
>> data on over 70 nutrients.
>>
>>    * ESHA (ESHA Research, Inc.) contains over 35000 brand name products
>> and
>> restaurant menu items. These items don't typically have as full of a
>> nutrient
>> profile as the USDA and NCCDB items, but contain all the published
>> information
>> from the product nutrition labels--I don't know how many nutrients--may
>> vary.
>>
>>    * ???? Nutritionix: barcode scanning database, contains data for over
>> 400,000 food product nutrition labels--I don't know how many
>> nutrients--may
>> vary. Nutritionix API
>>
>>    * CNF 2010 (Canadian Nutrient File)
>>     This data has a lot of overlap with the USDA data (many entries are
>> derived it), but adds a lot of additional foods, as well as reflecting
>> differences found in Canadian foods. It has french and english names for
>> all
>> items, as well as standard measures in metric units--I don't know how
>> many
>> nutrients--may vary.
>>
>>    * IFCDB (Irish Food Composition Database) contains nearly 1000 irish
>> food
>> and supplement products--I don't know how many nutrients--may vary.
>>
>>    * CRDB (CRON-O-Meter Community Database) foods submitted by
>> CRON-O-Meter
>> users (they show green in the food search dialog)--I don't know how many
>> nutrients--may vary.
>>
>>    * Custom
>>     These are your custom foods. These are private and can only be viewed
>> and
>> used by you, or any friends you have linked to for
>> food-sharing--nutrients
>> included may vary based on where I got the data (I mean, like from which
>> of
>> the databases listed below.
>> </quote>
>>
>> One of my points is that data / databases are available.
>>
>> I'm also willing to share with you my file on my experiences with this
>> type of
>> program.  NUT is available for LInux, but it was really freaky -- for
>> example,
>> you had to specify how many meals per day you intended to eat (for this
>> example, assume 6, 3 meals, 3 between meal snacks, and then when you
>> entered
>> the first meal it multiplied all the nutritional values by 6.  I forget
>> what it
>> did as you entered the other meals.
>>
>> CRON-O-Meter was much better, but not really good enough to suit me.
>>
>> I experimented with possibly as many as 10 such programs that I could run
>> without touching Windows.  One of them (I forget which) tracked something
>> like
>> 60 different nutrients, things like micrograms and such of minerals,
>> vitamins,
>> ...
>>
>> If you're really interested, I can make my file with my notes in it
>> available
>> to you.
>>
>> You can treat it as a plain text file, or read it as emails in any email
>> client
>> that can handle mbox files, or, with a special file I can provide, read
>> it in
>> kate with the   features I intended it to have (syntax highlighting and
>> folding).
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>

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