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psu or firmware?

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  psu or firmware? Graham Seaman <graham@theseamans.net> - 2020-07-18 14:30 +0200
    Re: psu or firmware? Dan Ritter <dsr@randomstring.org> - 2020-07-18 14:40 +0200
      Re: psu or firmware? Graham Seaman <graham@theseamans.net> - 2020-07-18 22:30 +0200
        Re: psu or firmware? rhkramer@gmail.com - 2020-07-18 22:50 +0200
          Re: psu or firmware? Graham Seaman <graham@theseamans.net> - 2020-07-18 23:10 +0200
            Re: psu or firmware? rhkramer@gmail.com - 2020-07-19 18:20 +0200
    Re: psu or firmware? Klaus Singvogel <deb-user-ml@singvogel.net> - 2020-07-18 14:50 +0200
      Re: psu or firmware? Graham Seaman <graham@theseamans.net> - 2020-07-18 22:30 +0200
        Re: psu or firmware? Klaus Singvogel <deb-user-ml@singvogel.net> - 2020-07-18 23:20 +0200
    Re: psu or firmware? songbird <songbird@anthive.com> - 2020-07-18 20:50 +0200
      Re: psu or firmware? Stefan Monnier <monnier@iro.umontreal.ca> - 2020-07-18 22:40 +0200
        Re: psu or firmware? Stefan Monnier <monnier@iro.umontreal.ca> - 2020-07-18 22:50 +0200
          Re: psu or firmware? Graham Seaman <graham@theseamans.net> - 2020-07-18 23:20 +0200
            Re: psu or firmware? Eike Lantzsch <zp6cge@gmx.net> - 2020-07-18 23:50 +0200
          Re: psu or firmware? rhkramer@gmail.com - 2020-07-19 18:10 +0200
        Re: psu or firmware? Graham Seaman <graham@theseamans.net> - 2020-07-20 19:00 +0200
          Re: psu or firmware? David Wright <deblis@lionunicorn.co.uk> - 2020-07-21 05:40 +0200
            Re: psu or firmware? Graham Seaman <graham@theseamans.net> - 2020-07-21 22:40 +0200
    Re: psu or firmware? deloptes <deloptes@gmail.com> - 2020-07-18 21:20 +0200

#224924 — psu or firmware?

I'm running Debian on an old Dell Vostro 1520 - old and slow, but has 
been working fine. Recently the PSU has stopped charging. It is 
genuinely empty; if I power down and then try to boot with no power 
cable attached the laptop is completely dead.

I guess it's most likely this is a hardware failure, but since I'm 
unlikely to find a viable replacement for the battery I'm hoping there 
might be some firmware or other software change that could account for it.

upower -i /org/freedesktop/UPower/devices/battery_BAT1

   native-path:          BAT1
   vendor:               Dell
   serial:               11
   power supply:         yes
   updated:              Sat 18 Jul 2020 12:34:19 BST (39 seconds ago)
   has history:          yes
   has statistics:       yes
   battery
     present:             yes
     rechargeable:        yes
     state:               charging
     warning-level:       none
     energy:              0 Wh
     energy-empty:        0 Wh
     energy-full:         37.81 Wh
     energy-full-design:  48.84 Wh
     energy-rate:         0 W
     voltage:             9.306 V
     percentage:          0%
     capacity:            77.4161%
     technology:          lithium-ion
     icon-name:          'battery-caution-charging-symbolic'

/var/log/messages says:

Jul 17 14:53:50 argos kernel: [   21.858825] iTCO_vendor_support: 
vendor-support=0
Jul 17 14:53:50 argos kernel: [   21.868799] iTCO_wdt: Intel TCO 
WatchDog Timer Driver v1.11
Jul 17 14:53:50 argos kernel: [   21.869780] iTCO_wdt: Found a ICH9M TCO 
device (Version=2, TCOBASE=0x0460)
Jul 17 14:53:50 argos kernel: [   21.869983] iTCO_wdt: initialized. 
heartbeat=30 sec (nowayout=0)
Jul 17 14:53:50 argos kernel: [   22.114275] dcdbas dcdbas: Dell Systems 
Management Base Driver (version 5.6.0-3.2)
Jul 17 14:53:50 argos kernel: [   22.227213] battery: ACPI: Battery Slot 
[BAT1] (battery present)
Jul 17 14:53:50 argos kernel: [   22.665955] intel_powerclamp: No 
package C-state available

Is any of that helpful for working out what might be wrong?

Thanks for any advice

Graham

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#224925

Graham Seaman wrote: 
> I'm running Debian on an old Dell Vostro 1520 - old and slow, but has been
> working fine. Recently the PSU has stopped charging. It is genuinely empty;
> if I power down and then try to boot with no power cable attached the laptop
> is completely dead.
> 
> I guess it's most likely this is a hardware failure, but since I'm unlikely
> to find a viable replacement for the battery I'm hoping there might be some
> firmware or other software change that could account for it.

A quick search shows lots of people selling replacement
batteries from $12 to $60 US, most in the $20-25 range.

A secret of many laptop batteries, including this one, is that
the battery is largely a container to hold 18650 lithium battery
cells, which can be purchased separately. 

Now, if the motherboard charging circuitry is toast, this won't
work, and you should consider a new machine.

-dsr-

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#224940

On 18/07/2020 13:39, Dan Ritter wrote:
> Graham Seaman wrote:
>> I'm running Debian on an old Dell Vostro 1520 - old and slow, but has been
>> working fine. Recently the PSU has stopped charging. It is genuinely empty;
>> if I power down and then try to boot with no power cable attached the laptop
>> is completely dead.
>>
>> I guess it's most likely this is a hardware failure, but since I'm unlikely
>> to find a viable replacement for the battery I'm hoping there might be some
>> firmware or other software change that could account for it.
> A quick search shows lots of people selling replacement
> batteries from $12 to $60 US, most in the $20-25 range.

Where did you find them? All I can find on ebay or elsewhere is AC 
adapters (I'm searching on 'dell vostro 1520 psu' or 'dell vostro 1520 
power supply', but all the results returned are for adapters, not power 
supplies - even when the description says 'power supply' the photo shows 
an adapter).

I'm in the UK, so looking for UK suppliers - don't know if that makes a 
difference.

Thanks

Graham





>
> A secret of many laptop batteries, including this one, is that
> the battery is largely a container to hold 18650 lithium battery
> cells, which can be purchased separately.
>
> Now, if the motherboard charging circuitry is toast, this won't
> work, and you should consider a new machine.
>
> -dsr-
>

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#224943

On Saturday, July 18, 2020 04:21:31 PM Graham Seaman wrote:
> Where did you find them? All I can find on ebay or elsewhere is AC
> adapters (I'm searching on 'dell vostro 1520 psu' or 'dell vostro 1520
> power supply', but all the results returned are for adapters, not power
> supplies - even when the description says 'power supply' the photo shows
> an adapter).

Google for Dell vostro 1520 battery

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#224945

On 18/07/2020 21:42, rhkramer@gmail.com wrote:
> On Saturday, July 18, 2020 04:21:31 PM Graham Seaman wrote:
>> Where did you find them? All I can find on ebay or elsewhere is AC
>> adapters (I'm searching on 'dell vostro 1520 psu' or 'dell vostro 1520
>> power supply', but all the results returned are for adapters, not power
>> supplies - even when the description says 'power supply' the photo shows
>> an adapter).
> Google for Dell vostro 1520 battery
>
Of course, don't know why I was being so dumb. Somehow I seem to have 
imagined my laptop was a desktop...

Thanks

Graham

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#224986

On Saturday, July 18, 2020 05:00:57 PM Graham Seaman wrote:
> On 18/07/2020 21:42, rhkramer@gmail.com wrote:
> > On Saturday, July 18, 2020 04:21:31 PM Graham Seaman wrote:
> >> Where did you find them? All I can find on ebay or elsewhere is AC
> >> adapters (I'm searching on 'dell vostro 1520 psu' or 'dell vostro 1520
> >> power supply', but all the results returned are for adapters, not power
> >> supplies - even when the description says 'power supply' the photo shows
> >> an adapter).
> > 
> > Google for Dell vostro 1520 battery
> 
> Of course, don't know why I was being so dumb. Somehow I seem to have
> imagined my laptop was a desktop...

I wondered why you referred to a PSU -- I thought maybe it was a (King's / 
Queen's) "Englishcism" or something along those lines.  Now I understand.  
(Oh, and don't feel dumb, or so it with tongue in cheek, the older I get, the 
dumber I am ;-)

(I guess there's a trajectory in a parabola shaped curve for "dumbness"-- when 
you're young, you're dumb from lack of knowledge, but smart in terms of having 
a good memory for what you learn.  When you get older, you have plenty of 
knowledge, but are dumb due to forgetting it. ;-)

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#224926

Graham Seaman wrote:
> I'm running Debian on an old Dell Vostro 1520 - old and slow, but has been
> working fine. Recently the PSU has stopped charging. It is genuinely empty;
> if I power down and then try to boot with no power cable attached the laptop
> is completely dead.

Maybe the CMOS battery empty?
Try to measure the voltage, if you're eligible with this.

If low and depending on price for replacement, I would give it a chance.

https://www.parts-people.com/blog/2015/11/05/dell-inspiron-1520-cmos-battery-removal-installation/

Best regards,
	Klaus.
-- 
Klaus Singvogel
GnuPG-Key-ID: 1024R/5068792D  1994-06-27

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#224939

On 18/07/2020 13:47, Klaus Singvogel wrote:
> Graham Seaman wrote:
>> I'm running Debian on an old Dell Vostro 1520 - old and slow, but has been
>> working fine. Recently the PSU has stopped charging. It is genuinely empty;
>> if I power down and then try to boot with no power cable attached the laptop
>> is completely dead.
> Maybe the CMOS battery empty?

Why would the CMOS battery affect the main battery? (not being sarcastic 
- I really don't know enough about this to know whether it would or not)

Thanks

Graham


> Try to measure the voltage, if you're eligible with this.
>
> If low and depending on price for replacement, I would give it a chance.
>
> https://www.parts-people.com/blog/2015/11/05/dell-inspiron-1520-cmos-battery-removal-installation/
>
> Best regards,
> 	Klaus.

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#224949

Graham Seaman wrote:
> > Maybe the CMOS battery empty?
> 
> Why would the CMOS battery affect the main battery? (not being sarcastic - I
> really don't know enough about this to know whether it would or not)

That old machine has stored most settings in the BIOS. It's not unlikely,
that a new CMOS battery might help, but surely depends on vendor/model
and BIOS itself.

Look here:
https://www.laptop-junction.com/toast/content/battery-not-charging-bios-setup

Another way to check state of CMOS battery: unplug and replug AC (and
battery at same time - to be sure) for a few seconds. Check afterwards
if machine keeps time and date.

Best regards,
	Klaus.
-- 
Klaus Singvogel
GnuPG-Key-ID: 1024R/5068792D  1994-06-27

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#224932

Graham Seaman wrote:

> I'm running Debian on an old Dell Vostro 1520 - old and slow, but has 
> been working fine. Recently the PSU has stopped charging. It is 
> genuinely empty; if I power down and then try to boot with no power 
> cable attached the laptop is completely dead.
>
> I guess it's most likely this is a hardware failure, but since I'm 
> unlikely to find a viable replacement for the battery I'm hoping there 
> might be some firmware or other software change that could account for it.

  my guess is that the battery pack is done for before i
would suspect the PSU - especially on an old laptop.

  often for the price of a new battery you are already
a large part of the way towards just getting a newer
system (a raspberry pi might work for some people and
be much better instead).

  what has been discussed recently in another thread 
about old hardware often costing more in the long run
anyways (more power consumption and eventually perhaps
not having very good support by software).


  songbird

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#224942

>   often for the price of a new battery you are already
> a large part of the way towards just getting a newer
> system (a raspberry pi might work for some people and
> be much better instead).

New batteries for a Dell Vostro 1520 seem to run around $30 (according
to a quick search for "battery dell vostro 1520").

If the machine is used as a kind of server then a small SBC (like an
EspressoBin, or <foo> Pi) might indeed be a good option, but a new
battery is not a large investment.  And while old, a Core 2 Duo is still
pretty competitive against those small boxes.


        Stefan "doing most of his work on a Thinkpad T61"

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#224944

> New batteries for a Dell Vostro 1520 seem to run around $30 (according
> to a quick search for "battery dell vostro 1520").

Adding "site:co.uk" to the query seems to indicate prices are more in
the £40-50 range in the UK.


        Stefan

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#224948

On 18/07/2020 21:47, Stefan Monnier wrote:
>> New batteries for a Dell Vostro 1520 seem to run around $30 (according
>> to a quick search for "battery dell vostro 1520").
> Adding "site:co.uk" to the query seems to indicate prices are more in
> the £40-50 range in the UK.

Most of the ones on Amazon are less than that. I've just bought one for 
£21.99 - a Chinese clone of the original, I imagine. I shall see if that 
does it or it turns out to be an onboard regulator or similar, in which 
case I guess I give up on it.

Graham

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#224951

On Saturday, 18 July 2020 17:11:22 -04 Graham Seaman wrote:
> On 18/07/2020 21:47, Stefan Monnier wrote:
> >> New batteries for a Dell Vostro 1520 seem to run around $30
> >> (according to a quick search for "battery dell vostro 1520").
> > 
> > Adding "site:co.uk" to the query seems to indicate prices are more
> > in
> > the £40-50 range in the UK.
> 
> Most of the ones on Amazon are less than that. I've just bought one
> for £21.99 - a Chinese clone of the original, I imagine. I shall see
> if that does it or it turns out to be an onboard regulator or
> similar, in which case I guess I give up on it.
> 
> Graham

The chinese clones (or from Chechia for that matter) are usually better 
than the original ones. Reason: The clones are really new but the 
original ones came together with the notebook in the same container. 
That means that they are original but as old as the computer and not 
good anymore.

-- 
Eike Lantzsch ZP6CGE

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#224983

On Saturday, July 18, 2020 04:47:40 PM Stefan Monnier wrote:
> > New batteries for a Dell Vostro 1520 seem to run around $30 (according
> > to a quick search for "battery dell vostro 1520").
> 
> Adding "site:co.uk" to the query seems to indicate prices are more in
> the £40-50 range in the UK.

I don't know what shipping from the US and VAT would add to the US cost, but 
if I lived in the UK I'd look into that.  You might find some free shipping 
deals.  I'd particularly check Amazon and eBay, and I am not averse to buying 
from the far east -- shipping can take a while, and shipments occasionally get 
lost, but in almost all cases, the supplier makes good, and, if not, ebay and 
then PayPal can step in.  (I think eBay limits recoveries to 60 (or 30?) days 
after the scheduled delivery, PayPal does 6 months (not sure if that is from 
order date or promised delivery date.

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#225055

On 18/07/2020 21:36, Stefan Monnier wrote:

>>    often for the price of a new battery you are already
>> a large part of the way towards just getting a newer
>> system (a raspberry pi might work for some people and
>> be much better instead).
> New batteries for a Dell Vostro 1520 seem to run around $30 (according
> to a quick search for "battery dell vostro 1520").
>
> If the machine is used as a kind of server then a small SBC (like an
> EspressoBin, or <foo> Pi) might indeed be a good option, but a new
> battery is not a large investment.  And while old, a Core 2 Duo is still
> pretty competitive against those small boxes.
>
>
>          Stefan "doing most of his work on a Thinkpad T61"

So the new battery came, precharged to 75%. Left the power in for 30 
minutes, stayed at 75%. Took the power out, dropped to 72% pretty 
quickly. Put the power back in and it stays at 72%. So the motherboard 
is reading the battery power ok but not charging it, although it thinks 
it is, and I have a motherboard fault.

I do use it as a laptop not a server, mainly for browsing and text 
editing, and at home cos its too heavy to lug around. I can carry on 
using it like that just plugged into the adaptor, although the power 
plug is a bit loose and tends to fall out unexpectedly which may well 
eventually leave me with a corrupted hard drive. I either invest in some 
sticky tape to hold it in place or try to peer at the mother board and 
hope I find a popped capacitor or something I have a hope of fixing. 
Sticky tape it is then.

Graham

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#225084

On Mon 20 Jul 2020 at 17:58:46 (+0100), Graham Seaman wrote:
> 
> So the new battery came, precharged to 75%. Left the power in for 30
> minutes, stayed at 75%. Took the power out, dropped to 72% pretty
> quickly. Put the power back in and it stays at 72%. So the motherboard
> is reading the battery power ok but not charging it, although it
> thinks it is, and I have a motherboard fault.
> 
> I do use it as a laptop not a server, mainly for browsing and text
> editing, and at home cos its too heavy to lug around. I can carry on
> using it like that just plugged into the adaptor, although the power
> plug is a bit loose and tends to fall out unexpectedly which may well
> eventually leave me with a corrupted hard drive. I either invest in
> some sticky tape to hold it in place or try to peer at the mother
> board and hope I find a popped capacitor or something I have a hope of
> fixing. Sticky tape it is then.

My laptops run a background job in X that sets the backgound colour of
the root window according to the state of the battery and, with higher
priority, the temperature of the CPU. So my ranking is

brown         toast, < 15°C below critical
red           frying, < 20°C below critical
DarkViolet    discharging, < 10% left
DeepPink      discharging, < 25% left
yellow        discharging
green         full
linen         not charging, but not full
DarkTurquoise charging a little
DarkGreen     charging
blue          charging a lot

linen was a later addition: when AC is restored but the battery is
over ~95%, one doesn't charge, but just runs on the AC.
The green/yellow transition makes it very obvious when the AC power
gets disconnected for any reason.

However, this laptop, the lenovo, no longer has a functioning power
regulation. The battery shows full at all times, but if the AC is
interrupted, it's dead. It doesn't help that the connector (a USB-A
look-alike) is loose fitting, so the laptop now has to be a static
desktop, with its power cord twisted and trapped underneath in such
a manner that it can't move around.

It's not worth spending any money on because, after a hard life,
. the touchpad doesn't click any more,
. the screen is coming away from the casing at the hinge, so closing
  or opening it is a delicate operation,
. the USB sockets are about as loose as the power one with some sticks,
. I've had to strap a straightened coathook to the PSU because the
  cable's strain relief has broken, leaving the wires exposed and
  vulnerable. (It's a replacement PSU.)

I suppose if push came to shove, and Vostros were common enough, you
might be able get another machine to charge the battery pack for you.

Cheers,
David.

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#225113

On 21/07/2020 04:35, David Wright wrote:

> However, this laptop, the lenovo, no longer has a functioning power
> regulation. The battery shows full at all times, but if the AC is
> interrupted, it's dead. It doesn't help that the connector (a USB-A
> look-alike) is loose fitting, so the laptop now has to be a static
> desktop, with its power cord twisted and trapped underneath in such
> a manner that it can't move around.
>
> It's not worth spending any money on because, after a hard life,
> . the touchpad doesn't click any more,
> . the screen is coming away from the casing at the hinge, so closing
>    or opening it is a delicate operation,
> . the USB sockets are about as loose as the power one with some sticks,
> . I've had to strap a straightened coathook to the PSU because the
>    cable's strain relief has broken, leaving the wires exposed and
>    vulnerable. (It's a replacement PSU.)

Wow. That puts mine to shame: I have replaced a dying fan, a dead hard 
drive, and a dead power adaptor so far. But apart from holes in the 
plastic case where the fan grid has given way it's currently all intact 
apart from the faulty regulator or whatever it is. Speed has been a 
problem - I ran gentoo on it for years but switched to debian when the 
hdd died, because compile times were getting too long.

> I suppose if push came to shove, and Vostros were common enough, you
> might be able get another machine to charge the battery pack for you.

I'm not going to buy another dodgy antique just for that! But its not a 
bad idea in principle: maybe I can find something just as a recharger. 
My wife has a Packard bell bought on the very same day - but 
unfortunately her power regulator has died too. Must be a common fault, 
wonder if it was a particular component problem at the time (you'd think 
there would be more stress on the CPU

Cheers

Graham

>
> Cheers,
> David.
>

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#224936

Graham Seaman wrote:

> I guess it's most likely this is a hardware failure, but since I'm
> unlikely to find a viable replacement for the battery I'm hoping there
> might be some firmware or other software change that could account for it.

I have replaced batteries after 5y or so. Recently one on a Dell Latitude
D520. The led for the battery charging started blinking in a funny way and
of course it was not charging.

regards

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