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OT (for the debian-list): Re: [Rosegarden-user] Questions about audio playback and MIDI connections

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  OT (for the debian-list): Re: [Rosegarden-user] Questions about audio playback and MIDI connections rhkramer@gmail.com - 2020-06-30 17:20 +0200
    Unidentified subject! Dan Ritter <dsr@randomstring.org> - 2020-06-30 17:40 +0200
      Re: Unidentified subject! songbird <songbird@anthive.com> - 2020-07-01 01:40 +0200
    Re: OT (for the debian-list): Re: [Rosegarden-user] Questions about  audio playback and MIDI connections Richard Owlett <rowlett@cloud85.net> - 2020-06-30 19:10 +0200
      Re: OT (for the debian-list): Re: [Rosegarden-user] Questions about audio playback and MIDI connections rhkramer@gmail.com - 2020-06-30 20:50 +0200
      Re: OT (for the debian-list): Re: [Rosegarden-user] Questions about  audio playback and MIDI connections davidson <davidson@freevolt.org> - 2020-06-30 22:10 +0200

#224233 — OT (for the debian-list): Re: [Rosegarden-user] Questions about audio playback and MIDI connections

(Intentionally cross posted)

The following quotes are from an email to a rosegarden mail list -- Rosegarden 
is a music notation (mcow) program.

A user is describing a problem in which it appears the MIDI ports (connected 
via USB ports) change on each boot (or maybe even each start of the Rosegarden 
program).

I just wondered if this is similar to the current Linux behavior related to 
disks wherein, in the old days, disks came up in a consistent order, but 
nowadays (maybe because of systemd?) they (or some of them) can start in 
parallel and thus their device numbers are not consistent.

If a similar problem does exist with USB ports, is there a way to force them 
to be identified in a consistent way on each boot (i.e., something like using 
UUIDs or labels for disks)?

Thanks!

On Tuesday, June 30, 2020 10:46:30 AM Ted Felix wrote:
> On 6/30/20 5:20 AM, Malhaire Christophe wrote:
> > 1) While using Rosegarden, I cannot play a video on Youtube, or play a
> > piece of music using Parole Media Player.
> 
>    Off the top of my head, it sounds like those programs likely use
> ALSA, but you have JACK running.  When JACK is running, it takes over
> ALSA and anything trying to use ALSA will be "broken".
> 
>    There may be a way to get ALSA and JACK apps to cooperate.  I seem to
> remember an article on the JACK website.  This is a common complaint.
> 
> > 2) Each time the PC and Rosegarden are restarted, I have to check and
> > change my MIDI connections because the MIDI ports of my external USB
> > sound modules are systematically inconsistent (MIDI Playback devices
> > related to MIDI Outputs).
> 
>    This is interesting as we've had this complaint before.  I really
> would like to work on fixing this, if possible, but the other user
> reported that the problem went away.
> 
>    To get a closer look at what rg is doing to make those connections,
> load a composition, then go to Edit > Preferences... and press the
> "Details..." button next to "Sequencer Status".  This should show you
> the connections it is trying to make.  If you can post what's in there,
> that might help with figuring out what we might be able to do to fix this.
> 
> > I believe Rosegarden has an internal function
> > for "smartly" attaching a MIDI device, according to its name, but it
> > doesn't work for me. Surely I must miss something but what?
> 
>    It's all automated, so not really anything you can do.  We need to
> have a closer look and see if anything can be done at all.
> 
> > Is there anything to add to the .rgd file?
> 
>    .rgd files are only relevant when you create a new device.  It is the
> .rg file that is driving things from that point on.  It's the exact same
> info, though.
> 
> > But since the port number can change at each boot, or depending on the
> > order in which the devices are turned on, maybe this is not a good
> > method?
> 
>    I suspect that is what is really happening.  There's a limit to what
> we can obtain from the drivers.  Therefore there is a limit as to how
> good of a job we can do matching things up.
> 
> > 3) And by the way, where can we find a complete manual about the xml
> > format of .rgd files?
> 
>    You'll have to read the code.  We've barely got time to write code
> let alone documentation.  Feel free to create some, though.  We'd be
> happy to post it to the wiki.
> 
> Ted.
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Rosegarden-user mailing list
> Rosegarden-user@lists.sourceforge.net - use the link below to unsubscribe
> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/rosegarden-user

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#224234 — Unidentified subject!

rhkramer@gmail.com wrote: 
> (Intentionally cross posted)
> 
> The following quotes are from an email to a rosegarden mail list -- Rosegarden 
> is a music notation (mcow) program.
> 
> A user is describing a problem in which it appears the MIDI ports (connected 
> via USB ports) change on each boot (or maybe even each start of the Rosegarden 
> program).
> 
> I just wondered if this is similar to the current Linux behavior related to 
> disks wherein, in the old days, disks came up in a consistent order, but 
> nowadays (maybe because of systemd?) they (or some of them) can start in 
> parallel and thus their device numbers are not consistent.
> 
> If a similar problem does exist with USB ports, is there a way to force them 
> to be identified in a consistent way on each boot (i.e., something like using 
> UUIDs or labels for disks)?
> 

Yes, and yes-but-no.

You want to ignore the USB ports and focus on the attached
devices. udev is the mechanism here.

For example, in /etc/udev/rules.d/70-ups  I have:

SUBSYSTEM=="usb", ATTR{idVendor}=="0764", ATTR{idProduct}=="0501", SYMLINK+="ups0", GROUP="nut"

Which means that /dev/ups0 will be assigned to the USB device
that has an idVendor of 0764 and an idProduct of 0501, and be
accessible by anyone in the group nut.

So if you have a MIDI keyboard with idVendor 0499 (Yamaha) and 
idProduct 1617 (PSR-E353 digital keyboard) then you could plug
those numbers into a rule like the one above and whenever it was
connected, it would appear at, say, "/dev/midikb0".

SUBSYSTEM=="usb", ATTR{idVendor}=="0499", ATTR{idProduct}=="1617", SYMLINK+="midikb0", GROUP="audio"

lsusb (possibly with a -v) will help you find the currently
attached devices and their numbers.

Does that help?

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#224242 — Re: Unidentified subject!

Dan Ritter wrote:
...
> You want to ignore the USB ports and focus on the attached
> devices. udev is the mechanism here.
>
> For example, in /etc/udev/rules.d/70-ups  I have:
>
> SUBSYSTEM=="usb", ATTR{idVendor}=="0764", ATTR{idProduct}=="0501", SYMLINK+="ups0", GROUP="nut"
>
> Which means that /dev/ups0 will be assigned to the USB device
> that has an idVendor of 0764 and an idProduct of 0501, and be
> accessible by anyone in the group nut.
>
> So if you have a MIDI keyboard with idVendor 0499 (Yamaha) and 
> idProduct 1617 (PSR-E353 digital keyboard) then you could plug
> those numbers into a rule like the one above and whenever it was
> connected, it would appear at, say, "/dev/midikb0".
>
> SUBSYSTEM=="usb", ATTR{idVendor}=="0499", ATTR{idProduct}=="1617", SYMLINK+="midikb0", GROUP="audio"
>
> lsusb (possibly with a -v) will help you find the currently
> attached devices and their numbers.
>
> Does that help?

  excellent reply thanks!


  songbird  (not the OP or in need of this, but very useful
                 information anyways...  :)

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#224235 — Re: OT (for the debian-list): Re: [Rosegarden-user] Questions about audio playback and MIDI connections

On 06/30/2020 10:16 AM, rhkramer@gmail.com wrote:
> (Intentionally cross posted)

This reply is to Debian List
  with BCC to OP so he would have my email address

> 
> The following quotes are from an email to a rosegarden mail list -- Rosegarden
> is a music notation (mcow) program.
> 
> A user is describing a problem in which it appears the MIDI ports (connected
> via USB ports) change on each boot (or ...
> [snip]
> 
> If a similar problem does exist with USB ports, is there a way to force them
> to be identified in a consistent way on each boot (i.e., something like using
> UUIDs or labels for disks)?

Just to clarify, USB connected FLASH can be connected in a random order.
Therefore that *MAY* {or may not ;} be source of the problem.

For us non-musical Debian users, we need:
   1. informational links to Rosegarden and mcow
   2. what is the end user's computer and OS
      A classically trained musician friend with a BSEE degree and a long
      time Windows user recently bought an Apple based midi system --
      he is seeing things he doesn't understand and it got complicated
      due to communication problems (human->human) due to COVID19.
   3. what is the midi hardware (URL to tech description)

P.S.
My introduction [>50 yrs ago] to cross-discipline communication was 
trying to explain to a PHD biochemist why he needed to provide an order 
of magnitude larger sample for an NMR analysis that he had to provide 
for a mass spec analysis. Then there was trying to explain the concept 
of gain-bandwidth product to a chemistry post-doc when I was only a BSEE 
undergrad.

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#224237

On Tuesday, June 30, 2020 01:00:41 PM Richard Owlett wrote:
> On 06/30/2020 10:16 AM, rhkramer@gmail.com wrote:
> For us non-musical Debian users, we need:
>    1. informational links to Rosegarden and mcow

Sorry, mcow is an acronym that I use, not sure how widely it might be used, it 
stands for "my choice of words" -- I couldn't think of a good short 
description of Rosegarden, so I called it a music notation program -- among 
other things, you can enter notes in various ways (including on a musical 
staff), print out scores, and use MIDI to play the entered music (you can also 
enter notes by playing a MIDI equipped keyboard).

>    2. what is the end user's computer and OS

I should have asked, I assumed he was using LInux,-- there were some other 
clues that led me to believe that.

>    3. what is the midi hardware (URL to tech description)

I didn't really intend to respond to any of this, I just felt the need to 
explain mcow.  I think Dan Ritter's response gives the OP and the Rosegarden 
list some good clues, if they come back with more questions, we can go from 
there.

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#224239 — Re: OT (for the debian-list): Re: [Rosegarden-user] Questions about audio playback and MIDI connections

On Tue, 30 Jun 2020 Richard Owlett wrote:
> On 06/30/2020 10:16 AM, rhkramer@gmail.com wrote:
>> (Intentionally cross posted)
>
> This reply is to Debian List
> with BCC to OP so he would have my email address
>
>> 
>> The following quotes are from an email to a rosegarden mail list --
>> Rosegarden is a music notation (mcow) program.
>> 
>> A user is describing a problem in which it appears the MIDI ports
>> (connected via USB ports) change on each boot (or ...
>> [snip]
>> 
>> If a similar problem does exist with USB ports, is there a way to
>> force them to be identified in a consistent way on each boot (i.e.,
>> something like using UUIDs or labels for disks)?
>
> Just to clarify, USB connected FLASH can be connected in a random order.
> Therefore that *MAY* {or may not ;} be source of the problem.
>
> For us non-musical Debian users, we need:
>  1. informational links to Rosegarden and mcow

  $ apt-cache show rosegarden
  [...]
  Description-en: music editor and MIDI/audio sequencer
   Rosegarden is a Qt application which provides a mixed Audio/MIDI
   sequencer (for playback and recording), a multi-track editor, music
   editing using both piano-roll and score notation, MIDI file IO,
   lilypond and Csound files export, etc.
  [...]
  Homepage: https://www.rosegardenmusic.com/

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