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Advice on hardware server to use for small a dedicated data center

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  Advice on hardware server to use for small a dedicated data center echo test <echotest09@gmail.com> - 2020-06-26 20:40 +0200
    Re: Advice on hardware server to use for small a dedicated data  center Dan Ritter <dsr@randomstring.org> - 2020-06-26 21:50 +0200
      Re: Advice on hardware server to use for small a dedicated data center Nicholas Geovanis <nickgeovanis@gmail.com> - 2020-06-26 22:10 +0200
      Re: Advice on hardware server to use for small a dedicated data  center Miles Fidelman <mfidelman@meetinghouse.net> - 2020-06-28 22:50 +0200
        Re: Advice on hardware server to use for small a dedicated data  center Leslie Rhorer <lesrhorer@att.net> - 2020-06-29 08:10 +0200
          Re: Advice on hardware server to use for small a dedicated data  center Miles Fidelman <mfidelman@meetinghouse.net> - 2020-06-30 00:00 +0200
        Re: Advice on hardware server to use for small a dedicated data  center Dan Ritter <dsr@randomstring.org> - 2020-06-29 15:20 +0200
          Re: Advice on hardware server to use for small a dedicated data  center Miles Fidelman <mfidelman@meetinghouse.net> - 2020-06-29 23:50 +0200
            Re: Advice on hardware server to use for small a dedicated data  center Dan Ritter <dsr@randomstring.org> - 2020-06-30 01:30 +0200
              Re: Advice on hardware server to use for small a dedicated data  center Miles Fidelman <mfidelman@meetinghouse.net> - 2020-06-30 20:10 +0200
                Re: Advice on hardware server to use for small a dedicated data  center Dan Ritter <dsr@randomstring.org> - 2020-06-30 21:00 +0200
                  Re: Advice on hardware server to use for small a dedicated data  center elvis <elvis@dogonfire.com> - 2020-07-01 12:50 +0200
                    Re: Advice on hardware server to use for small a dedicated data  center Reco <recoverym4n@enotuniq.net> - 2020-07-01 13:10 +0200
                      Re: Advice on hardware server to use for small a dedicated data  center Miles Fidelman <mfidelman@meetinghouse.net> - 2020-07-01 14:20 +0200
                        RAID stuff [was Re: Advice on hardware server to use for small a  dedicated data center] Miles Fidelman <mfidelman@meetinghouse.net> - 2020-07-01 14:30 +0200
                        Re: Advice on hardware server to use for small a dedicated data  center Dan Ritter <dsr@randomstring.org> - 2020-07-01 14:50 +0200
      Re: Advice on hardware server to use for small a dedicated data  center Dan Ritter <dsr@randomstring.org> - 2020-06-29 15:00 +0200
      Re: Advice on hardware server to use for small a dedicated data  center Celejar <celejar@gmail.com> - 2020-06-29 17:00 +0200
        Re: Advice on hardware server to use for small a dedicated data  center Dan Ritter <dsr@randomstring.org> - 2020-06-29 17:10 +0200
          Re: Advice on hardware server to use for small a dedicated data  center Celejar <celejar@gmail.com> - 2020-06-29 17:40 +0200
        Re: Advice on hardware server to use for small a dedicated data  center Reco <recoverym4n@enotuniq.net> - 2020-06-29 17:30 +0200
          Re: Advice on hardware server to use for small a dedicated data  center Reco <recoverym4n@enotuniq.net> - 2020-06-29 18:00 +0200
            Re: Advice on hardware server to use for small a dedicated data  center Celejar <celejar@gmail.com> - 2020-06-29 18:20 +0200
              Re: Advice on hardware server to use for small a dedicated data  center Reco <recoverym4n@enotuniq.net> - 2020-06-29 18:30 +0200
                Re: Advice on hardware server to use for small a dedicated data  center Celejar <celejar@gmail.com> - 2020-06-29 22:50 +0200
          Re: Advice on hardware server to use for small a dedicated data  center Celejar <celejar@gmail.com> - 2020-06-29 18:00 +0200
    Re: Advice on hardware server to use for small a dedicated data center deloptes <deloptes@gmail.com> - 2020-06-26 22:00 +0200
    Re: Advice on hardware server to use for small a dedicated data  center Reco <recoverym4n@enotuniq.net> - 2020-06-26 22:10 +0200
      Re: Advice on hardware server to use for small a dedicated data  center Dan Ritter <dsr@randomstring.org> - 2020-06-26 22:50 +0200
        Re: Advice on hardware server to use for small a dedicated data  center Reco <recoverym4n@enotuniq.net> - 2020-06-26 23:00 +0200
      Re: Advice on hardware server to use for small a dedicated data  center Richard Hector <richard@walnut.gen.nz> - 2020-06-29 15:30 +0200
        Re: Advice on hardware server to use for small a dedicated data  center Reco <recoverym4n@enotuniq.net> - 2020-06-29 15:50 +0200
          Re: Advice on hardware server to use for small a dedicated data  center Celejar <celejar@gmail.com> - 2020-06-29 17:30 +0200
            Re: Advice on hardware server to use for small a dedicated data  center Reco <recoverym4n@enotuniq.net> - 2020-06-29 17:40 +0200
              Re: Advice on hardware server to use for small a dedicated data  center MAS Jean-Louis <jean-louis.mas@imag.fr> - 2020-06-29 18:40 +0200
                Re: Advice on hardware server to use for small a dedicated data  center Celejar <celejar@gmail.com> - 2020-06-29 19:10 +0200
    Re: Advice on hardware server to use for small a dedicated data center ghe2001 <ghe2001@protonmail.com> - 2020-06-26 22:20 +0200
    Re: Advice on hardware server to use for small a dedicated data  center Leslie Rhorer <lesrhorer@att.net> - 2020-06-27 09:40 +0200
      Re: Advice on hardware server to use for small a dedicated data  center Miles Fidelman <mfidelman@meetinghouse.net> - 2020-06-27 22:10 +0200
        Re: Advice on hardware server to use for small a dedicated data  center Dan Ritter <dsr@randomstring.org> - 2020-06-28 01:10 +0200
        Re: Advice on hardware server to use for small a dedicated data  center Fred <fred@blakemfg.com> - 2020-06-28 02:10 +0200
          Re: Advice on hardware server to use for small a dedicated data center Kenneth Parker <sea7kenp@gmail.com> - 2020-06-28 06:00 +0200
            Re: Advice on hardware server to use for small a dedicated data  center Miles Fidelman <mfidelman@meetinghouse.net> - 2020-06-28 06:10 +0200
    Re: Advice on hardware server to use for small a dedicated data  center Andrei POPESCU <andreimpopescu@gmail.com> - 2020-06-27 11:10 +0200
      Re: Advice on hardware server to use for small a dedicated data  center Andrei POPESCU <andreimpopescu@gmail.com> - 2020-06-27 11:20 +0200
    Re: Advice on hardware server to use for small a dedicated data  center David Christensen <dpchrist@holgerdanske.com> - 2020-06-28 09:20 +0200
      Re: Advice on hardware server to use for small a dedicated data center deloptes <deloptes@gmail.com> - 2020-06-28 09:50 +0200
      Advice on hardware server to use for small a dedicated data center echo test <echotest09@gmail.com> - 2020-06-28 12:40 +0200
        Re: Advice on hardware server to use for small a dedicated data  center Miles Fidelman <mfidelman@meetinghouse.net> - 2020-06-28 21:00 +0200
          Advice on hardware server to use for small a dedicated data center echo test <echotest09@gmail.com> - 2020-06-29 19:50 +0200
            Re: Advice on hardware server to use for small a dedicated data  center David Christensen <dpchrist@holgerdanske.com> - 2020-06-30 00:30 +0200
        Re: Advice on hardware server to use for small a dedicated data  center Andrei POPESCU <andreimpopescu@gmail.com> - 2020-06-29 09:10 +0200
      Re: Advice on hardware server to use for small a dedicated data  center Miles Fidelman <mfidelman@meetinghouse.net> - 2020-06-28 20:30 +0200
        Re: Advice on hardware server to use for small a dedicated data  center David Christensen <dpchrist@holgerdanske.com> - 2020-06-29 04:20 +0200
          Re: Advice on hardware server to use for small a dedicated data  center David Christensen <dpchrist@holgerdanske.com> - 2020-06-29 04:30 +0200
      Re: Advice on hardware server to use for small a dedicated data  center Andrei POPESCU <andreimpopescu@gmail.com> - 2020-06-29 09:10 +0200
        Re: Advice on hardware server to use for small a dedicated data  center Alessandro Baggi <alessandro.baggi@gmail.com> - 2020-06-29 09:30 +0200
          Re: Advice on hardware server to use for small a dedicated data  center Andrei POPESCU <andreimpopescu@gmail.com> - 2020-06-29 21:00 +0200
        Re: Advice on hardware server to use for small a dedicated data  center David Christensen <dpchrist@holgerdanske.com> - 2020-06-29 09:40 +0200
      Re: Advice on hardware server to use for small a dedicated data  center David Christensen <dpchrist@holgerdanske.com> - 2020-06-29 22:10 +0200

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#224191 — Re: Advice on hardware server to use for small a dedicated data center

	Hi.

On Mon, Jun 29, 2020 at 10:50:43AM -0400, Celejar wrote:
> On Fri, 26 Jun 2020 15:41:13 -0400
> Dan Ritter <dsr@randomstring.org> wrote:
> 
> ...
> 
> > To give an idea of what you might buy:
> > 
> > a firewall/router
> > a switch
> > a load-balancer
> > 2 web servers
> > a database server
> > a mail server
> > a general utility box with lots of storage to handle backups
> > 
> > All of those duties except the switch can reasonable be run on
> > Debian servers. 
> 
> I'm curious, although I don't know much about, and have little
> experience with, enterprise hardware. Am I correct in my understanding
> that it is actually possible to run (more-or-less) Debian on a switch
> by using OpenSwitch (OPX) on an Open Networking switch.

It's possible. Does not mean that typical enterprise is doing it.
OpenSwitch and SDNs in general are big data center toys.

But as long as we're talking routing traffic up to 1Gbps for that
typical SOHO - you don't need OpenSwtich at all, stock Linux kernel will
do it just fine. It's the hardware that gets tricky here - they do not
set up that many Ethernet ports on a typical server/consumer hardware as
one expects from a typical switch.


> I have no idea if this would be cost-effective in the OP's situation -
> basic switches are certainly a whole lot cheaper than the ones I
> looked at on the OPX HCL.

In general situation it won't be cost-effective. You just cannot beat
the cost of D-Link switch ($250 for that typical 1Gbps 24 ports) with
the cost of 1U server ($2000 and up). One could try to cut the costs
with consumer hardware or even SBCs, but where come the questions of
reliability, remote management, etc.

Reco

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#224196 — Re: Advice on hardware server to use for small a dedicated data center

	Hi.

On Mon, Jun 29, 2020 at 11:51:52AM -0400, Celejar wrote:
> > > I'm curious, although I don't know much about, and have little
> > > experience with, enterprise hardware. Am I correct in my understanding
> > > that it is actually possible to run (more-or-less) Debian on a switch
> > > by using OpenSwitch (OPX) on an Open Networking switch.
> > 
> > It's possible. Does not mean that typical enterprise is doing it.
> > OpenSwitch and SDNs in general are big data center toys.
> 
> OPX is SDN? My understanding was that it was simply an open source
> replacement for the proprietary switch OSs that are more commonly run
> on switch hardware.

Call it as you like. Managed switch emulator, replacement for switch
firmware or whatever. It's a software-only (or mostly if we count DPPK)
solution that can turn commodity hardware in a low-tier switch. Add
several of those and you have an SDN.

Reco

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#224199 — Re: Advice on hardware server to use for small a dedicated data center

On Mon, 29 Jun 2020 18:58:18 +0300
Reco <recoverym4n@enotuniq.net> wrote:

> 	Hi.
> 
> On Mon, Jun 29, 2020 at 11:51:52AM -0400, Celejar wrote:
> > > > I'm curious, although I don't know much about, and have little
> > > > experience with, enterprise hardware. Am I correct in my understanding
> > > > that it is actually possible to run (more-or-less) Debian on a switch
> > > > by using OpenSwitch (OPX) on an Open Networking switch.
> > > 
> > > It's possible. Does not mean that typical enterprise is doing it.
> > > OpenSwitch and SDNs in general are big data center toys.
> > 
> > OPX is SDN? My understanding was that it was simply an open source
> > replacement for the proprietary switch OSs that are more commonly run
> > on switch hardware.
> 
> Call it as you like. Managed switch emulator, replacement for switch
> firmware or whatever. It's a software-only (or mostly if we count DPPK)
> solution that can turn commodity hardware in a low-tier switch. Add
> several of those and you have an SDN.

? Open Switch (OPX) doesn't turn commodity hardware in[to] a low-tier
switch - it runs on high-tier switches, instead of the proprietary
switch Osss that are more commonly used. It's not an emulator. Perhaps
you're thinking of Open vSwitch (OVS)?

Celejar

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#224200 — Re: Advice on hardware server to use for small a dedicated data center

On Mon, Jun 29, 2020 at 12:15:22PM -0400, Celejar wrote:
> On Mon, 29 Jun 2020 18:58:18 +0300
> Reco <recoverym4n@enotuniq.net> wrote:
> 
> > 	Hi.
> > 
> > On Mon, Jun 29, 2020 at 11:51:52AM -0400, Celejar wrote:
> > > > > I'm curious, although I don't know much about, and have little
> > > > > experience with, enterprise hardware. Am I correct in my understanding
> > > > > that it is actually possible to run (more-or-less) Debian on a switch
> > > > > by using OpenSwitch (OPX) on an Open Networking switch.
> > > > 
> > > > It's possible. Does not mean that typical enterprise is doing it.
> > > > OpenSwitch and SDNs in general are big data center toys.
> > > 
> > > OPX is SDN? My understanding was that it was simply an open source
> > > replacement for the proprietary switch OSs that are more commonly run
> > > on switch hardware.
> > 
> > Call it as you like. Managed switch emulator, replacement for switch
> > firmware or whatever. It's a software-only (or mostly if we count DPPK)
> > solution that can turn commodity hardware in a low-tier switch. Add
> > several of those and you have an SDN.
> 
> ? Open Switch (OPX) doesn't turn commodity hardware in[to] a low-tier
> switch - it runs on high-tier switches, instead of the proprietary
> switch Osss that are more commonly used. It's not an emulator. Perhaps
> you're thinking of Open vSwitch (OVS)?

I need to learn to pay attention while reading. You're correct, I'm
mistaken.

Reco

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#224214 — Re: Advice on hardware server to use for small a dedicated data center

On Mon, 29 Jun 2020 19:28:12 +0300
Reco <recoverym4n@enotuniq.net> wrote:

> On Mon, Jun 29, 2020 at 12:15:22PM -0400, Celejar wrote:
> > On Mon, 29 Jun 2020 18:58:18 +0300
> > Reco <recoverym4n@enotuniq.net> wrote:
> > 
> > > 	Hi.
> > > 
> > > On Mon, Jun 29, 2020 at 11:51:52AM -0400, Celejar wrote:
> > > > > > I'm curious, although I don't know much about, and have little
> > > > > > experience with, enterprise hardware. Am I correct in my understanding
> > > > > > that it is actually possible to run (more-or-less) Debian on a switch
> > > > > > by using OpenSwitch (OPX) on an Open Networking switch.
> > > > > 
> > > > > It's possible. Does not mean that typical enterprise is doing it.
> > > > > OpenSwitch and SDNs in general are big data center toys.
> > > > 
> > > > OPX is SDN? My understanding was that it was simply an open source
> > > > replacement for the proprietary switch OSs that are more commonly run
> > > > on switch hardware.
> > > 
> > > Call it as you like. Managed switch emulator, replacement for switch
> > > firmware or whatever. It's a software-only (or mostly if we count DPPK)
> > > solution that can turn commodity hardware in a low-tier switch. Add
> > > several of those and you have an SDN.
> > 
> > ? Open Switch (OPX) doesn't turn commodity hardware in[to] a low-tier
> > switch - it runs on high-tier switches, instead of the proprietary
> > switch Osss that are more commonly used. It's not an emulator. Perhaps
> > you're thinking of Open vSwitch (OVS)?
> 
> I need to learn to pay attention while reading. You're correct, I'm
> mistaken.

:) You actually know this stuff, and so make the occasional careless
mistake. I'm reading up on it and writing emails as I go along ...

Celejar

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#224197 — Re: Advice on hardware server to use for small a dedicated data center

On Mon, 29 Jun 2020 18:21:08 +0300
Reco <recoverym4n@enotuniq.net> wrote:

> 	Hi.
> 
> On Mon, Jun 29, 2020 at 10:50:43AM -0400, Celejar wrote:
> > On Fri, 26 Jun 2020 15:41:13 -0400
> > Dan Ritter <dsr@randomstring.org> wrote:
> > 
> > ...
> > 
> > > To give an idea of what you might buy:
> > > 
> > > a firewall/router
> > > a switch
> > > a load-balancer
> > > 2 web servers
> > > a database server
> > > a mail server
> > > a general utility box with lots of storage to handle backups
> > > 
> > > All of those duties except the switch can reasonable be run on
> > > Debian servers. 
> > 
> > I'm curious, although I don't know much about, and have little
> > experience with, enterprise hardware. Am I correct in my understanding
> > that it is actually possible to run (more-or-less) Debian on a switch
> > by using OpenSwitch (OPX) on an Open Networking switch.
> 
> It's possible. Does not mean that typical enterprise is doing it.
> OpenSwitch and SDNs in general are big data center toys.

OPX is SDN? My understanding was that it was simply an open source
replacement for the proprietary switch OSs that are more commonly run
on switch hardware.

> But as long as we're talking routing traffic up to 1Gbps for that
> typical SOHO - you don't need OpenSwtich at all, stock Linux kernel will
> do it just fine. It's the hardware that gets tricky here - they do not
> set up that many Ethernet ports on a typical server/consumer hardware as
> one expects from a typical switch.
> 
> 
> > I have no idea if this would be cost-effective in the OP's situation -
> > basic switches are certainly a whole lot cheaper than the ones I
> > looked at on the OPX HCL.
> 
> In general situation it won't be cost-effective. You just cannot beat
> the cost of D-Link switch ($250 for that typical 1Gbps 24 ports) with
> the cost of 1U server ($2000 and up). One could try to cut the costs
> with consumer hardware or even SBCs, but where come the questions of
> reliability, remote management, etc.

Understood, thanks.

Celejar

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#224051

Hi,
I can only share what I did when taking similar decision

echo test wrote:

> So, I want to know if It's a good idea to try using Debian in an
> enterprise context, with hardwares like Dell EMC PowerEdge or Lenovo
> ThinkCenter which seems to never mention that they support Debian. What
> kind of issues can I encounter with such hardwares except simple cases
> like having to install missing drivers with some already available
> firmwares.
> 

I decided to not spend money on server hardware (data volume and load are
really minimal), because this hardware is 
a) more expensive than desktop hardware
b) it consumes more power (costs more)

Of course it depends on your use case - you mention webapp server - this
means 
a) at least enough broadband - and I mean professional quality (up/down)
b) also probably you need a backup line - good to check when ordering
c) calculate load/capacity and compare cost between desktop and server
solution

> Can you give me some alternative hardwares in case this idea may take me
> to much time to solve ?
> 

When you answer the questions above and probably other questions that pop up
you will have found the answer here.

> Note: I will need some RAID solution hard or soft.

I use LSI cards on ASUS M5A97 EVO R2.0 with 3.4GHz CPU and 32GB RAM. Problem
is these LSI cards are 3Gbps with WD RED, which is sufficient for me, but
if it were to serve 1000 web requests per minute, I believe it would die.
There are faster cards on the market recently, but the point is you need
definitely two (for redundancy). Think always about redundancy. I would buy
also 2 servers and make a plan regarding disaster recovery. I have RAID1
and RAID6 in use. 
What is better for you, you decide alone. Good Servers cost around 2-3K -
make it double(for redundancy), rack, pdus, ups, air conditioning, switch
and firewall belongs in the basket - 10K to start with at pro level.
All depends on the numbers. My solution cost 3.8K in 2012 - and it is not
the pro one - but never regret it.

Alternatively you can consider renting a server or server space for your own
hardware in professional data center - could be better option (will save
you the troubles with the power supply and air conditioning) - again
depends on costs and calculations.

Another alternative would be to buy second hand - but again buy redundant.

As for pro hardware, I had good experience with HP DL360 and 380 and
PowerEdge (different models).
I think all of them are good.

I hope it helps - regards

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#224052 — Re: Advice on hardware server to use for small a dedicated data center

	Hi.

On Fri, Jun 26, 2020 at 08:34:07PM +0200, echo test wrote:
> So, I want to know if It's a good idea to try using Debian in an enterprise
> context, with hardwares like Dell EMC PowerEdge or Lenovo ThinkCenter which
> seems to never mention that they support Debian.

I'll be original here. Try SunFire X-series (aka SunServer X). Somewhat
costly, and the hardware quality is a hit or miss in newer models, but
runs Debian stable like it was designed for it.


> Note: I will need some RAID solution hard or soft.

Anything that's made by LSI if you need a hardware RAID controller.
Mdraid if whatever they sold you is not made by LSI.

Reco

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#224059 — Re: Advice on hardware server to use for small a dedicated data center

Reco wrote: 
> 	Hi.
> 
> On Fri, Jun 26, 2020 at 08:34:07PM +0200, echo test wrote:
> > So, I want to know if It's a good idea to try using Debian in an enterprise
> > context, with hardwares like Dell EMC PowerEdge or Lenovo ThinkCenter which
> > seems to never mention that they support Debian.
> 
> I'll be original here. Try SunFire X-series (aka SunServer X). Somewhat
> costly, and the hardware quality is a hit or miss in newer models, but
> runs Debian stable like it was designed for it.
> 
> 
> > Note: I will need some RAID solution hard or soft.
> 
> Anything that's made by LSI if you need a hardware RAID controller.
> Mdraid if whatever they sold you is not made by LSI.

Counterpoint: mdadm on LSI controllers flashed to "IT" mode,
i.e. just give all the disks to mdadm.

LSI controllers are fast but have a ridiculous control
interface.

-dsr-

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#224062 — Re: Advice on hardware server to use for small a dedicated data center

	Hi.

On Fri, Jun 26, 2020 at 04:43:15PM -0400, Dan Ritter wrote:
> > > Note: I will need some RAID solution hard or soft.
> > 
> > Anything that's made by LSI if you need a hardware RAID controller.
> > Mdraid if whatever they sold you is not made by LSI.
> 
> Counterpoint: mdadm on LSI controllers flashed to "IT" mode,
> i.e. just give all the disks to mdadm.

That's something one should do for these Adaptecs :) And that thing they
are putting into Proliants instead of the RAID controller.
If it's fast *and* does not drop disks from the array for no reason (HP,
I'm looking at you here) - stick with hardware RAID, always said that.
YMMV.
Your approach gives portability, nothing wrong with that.


> LSI controllers are fast but have a ridiculous control
> interface.

I agree with you. MEGACli was designed for Matrians, and storcli can be
hardly called an improvement over it. But at least you can monitor
separate disks via smartd/smartctl, so it's not that bad.

Reco

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#224181 — Re: Advice on hardware server to use for small a dedicated data center

On 27/06/20 8:02 am, Reco wrote:
> On Fri, Jun 26, 2020 at 08:34:07PM +0200, echo test wrote:
>> So, I want to know if It's a good idea to try using Debian in an enterprise
>> context, with hardwares like Dell EMC PowerEdge or Lenovo ThinkCenter which
>> seems to never mention that they support Debian.

> I'll be original here. Try SunFire X-series (aka SunServer X). Somewhat
> costly, and the hardware quality is a hit or miss in newer models, but
> runs Debian stable like it was designed for it.

I'm a little unclear what you're suggesting here - Sun Fire and Sun
Server seem to be both retired names (according to Wikipedia, anyway ...)

Are you suggesting Oracle servers in general?

Personally, I'd require a lot of convincing to use anything of theirs ...

I agree the Sun-era x86 servers were nice.

Richard

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#224183 — Re: Advice on hardware server to use for small a dedicated data center

On Tue, Jun 30, 2020 at 01:27:05AM +1200, Richard Hector wrote:
> > I'll be original here. Try SunFire X-series (aka SunServer X). Somewhat
> > costly, and the hardware quality is a hit or miss in newer models, but
> > runs Debian stable like it was designed for it.
> 
> I'm a little unclear what you're suggesting here - Sun Fire and Sun
> Server seem to be both retired names (according to Wikipedia, anyway ...)

I'm suggesting x86-64 Intel server with an Oracle logo on it.
I agree to call it whatever they call it at Oracle these days be it
SunFire, SunServer or whatever.
Whenever said server(s) will be bought from the Oracle, a certain
partners or, say, Ebay - I don't see how it can be relevant here.


> Are you suggesting Oracle servers in general?

Yep. I can say a lot of bad things about HPE hardware (but I won't, it'll
be off-topic), and I can't say anything good about Lenovo (those IBM
X-series were not bad, but it was a long time ago). Also, last one is a
political thing, and this list is an unsuitable place for discussing
political things.
I could also mention Huawei, but I won't - it's a political thing too.
Oracle servers (five years ago, at least) tend to Just Work™, barring
that usual "half-year after the purchase" time period.

Anything else is at least one tier lower so why bother discussing it?


> Personally, I'd require a lot of convincing to use anything of theirs ...

They don't pay me for this, I don't work for them.
Their support (both software and hardware) could use an improvement (to
put it lightly), but the hardware itself haven't spoiled for the last
5-10 years or so.

Reco

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#224190 — Re: Advice on hardware server to use for small a dedicated data center

On Mon, 29 Jun 2020 16:45:48 +0300
Reco <recoverym4n@enotuniq.net> wrote:

> On Tue, Jun 30, 2020 at 01:27:05AM +1200, Richard Hector wrote:
> > > I'll be original here. Try SunFire X-series (aka SunServer X). Somewhat
> > > costly, and the hardware quality is a hit or miss in newer models, but
> > > runs Debian stable like it was designed for it.
> > 
> > I'm a little unclear what you're suggesting here - Sun Fire and Sun
> > Server seem to be both retired names (according to Wikipedia, anyway ...)
> 
> I'm suggesting x86-64 Intel server with an Oracle logo on it.
> I agree to call it whatever they call it at Oracle these days be it
> SunFire, SunServer or whatever.
> Whenever said server(s) will be bought from the Oracle, a certain
> partners or, say, Ebay - I don't see how it can be relevant here.
> 
> 
> > Are you suggesting Oracle servers in general?
> 
> Yep. I can say a lot of bad things about HPE hardware (but I won't, it'll
> be off-topic), and I can't say anything good about Lenovo (those IBM
> X-series were not bad, but it was a long time ago). Also, last one is a
> political thing, and this list is an unsuitable place for discussing
> political things.
> I could also mention Huawei, but I won't - it's a political thing too.
> Oracle servers (five years ago, at least) tend to Just Work™, barring
> that usual "half-year after the purchase" time period.
> 
> Anything else is at least one tier lower so why bother discussing it?

What do you have against Dell? Everything I've read indicates that
their enterprise gear is very good, and quite affordable, particularly
on the second-hand market. I have very limited experience in this area,
but I've been running Debian on a used R210 II for a while and it has
been rock solid.

Celejar

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#224192 — Re: Advice on hardware server to use for small a dedicated data center

	Hi.

On Mon, Jun 29, 2020 at 11:22:21AM -0400, Celejar wrote:
> > Anything else is at least one tier lower so why bother discussing it?
> 
> What do you have against Dell?

I have a troubled past with EMC :)


> Everything I've read indicates that their enterprise gear is very
> good, and quite affordable, particularly on the second-hand market. I
> have very limited experience in this area, but I've been running
> Debian on a used R210 II for a while and it has been rock solid.

I see nothing wrong with Dell servers per se. If one really needs
something relatively cheap and durable - there's nothing wrong with
Dell (or Supermicro, but that's politics again). But, it's Tier 2, not
1. So - my quote at the top.

Reco

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#224201 — Re: Advice on hardware server to use for small a dedicated data center

[Multipart message — attachments visible in raw view] — view raw

Le 29/06/2020 à 17:31, Reco a écrit :

> I see nothing wrong with Dell servers per se. If one really needs
> something relatively cheap and durable - there's nothing wrong with
> Dell (or Supermicro, but that's politics again). But, it's Tier 2, not
> 1. So - my quote at the top.

We have about  100 servers now, mostly Dell, and we are working with
Dell for about 17 years, without any troubles. We owned several hundred
Dell's servers during those years, mostly running on Debian.

Everything work fine with Debian out of the box, sometime you need
firmware for Broadcom network cards, no more that that.

We also had some HPE Proliant DL380, that's pure crap (a lot a disk died
in the same month, bios update are non free, watermarked hard disks).
For now, they are all out of order, and it's far too expensive to repair
them.

Regards

-- 
Jean Louis Mas

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#224203 — Re: Advice on hardware server to use for small a dedicated data center

On Mon, 29 Jun 2020 18:32:40 +0200
MAS Jean-Louis <jean-louis.mas@imag.fr> wrote:

...

> We have about  100 servers now, mostly Dell, and we are working with
> Dell for about 17 years, without any troubles. We owned several hundred
> Dell's servers during those years, mostly running on Debian.
> 
> Everything work fine with Debian out of the box, sometime you need
> firmware for Broadcom network cards, no more that that.

Yes, indeed:

https://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=895258

Celejar

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#224054

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‐‐‐‐‐‐‐ Original Message ‐‐‐‐‐‐‐
On Friday, June 26, 2020 12:34 PM, echo test <echotest09@gmail.com> wrote:

> Then, I want to build a small data center for my company for hosting a web app and a mail server. It's the first time I'm going to buy some hardware for this. I tried looking for it on the web in order to compare them but it seems that hardware vendors never want to talk about Debian on their websites. 

Well, this might be heresy, but at that size, consider a Raspberry Pi running Raspian (Debian (sorta) recompiled for its CPU -- questions are accepted on this list). 

I'm on a T1, and I've been running them as Internet servers for almost a decade (replaced a genuine server). I suspect you could do RAID with a couple USB drives, and you could get the Ethernet ports you're looking for with a 4-hole switch.

I use a 3+ because I want to give the 4 a couple years to get its hardware and software debugged. The disadvantage of the 3+ is the 100M Ethernet speed (the 4 claims 1G, but I doubt it). Check the speed of your 'Net connection. 100M is plenty fast for most installations.

Keep a spare on hand, ready to replace the server when #1 dies. But I've been using them for years, on a good UPS, with no probs at all.

--
Glenn English


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#224090 — Re: Advice on hardware server to use for small a dedicated data center

	Your English is excellent.  I think Debian is a very good choice for a 
small enterprise server.  With a very limited set of servers as you 
mention here, I would not expect many issues, and stability is a 
hallmark of Debian.  Personally, I would go with a quality HBA from 
Areca or LSI in JBOD mode and then create and manage the array with 
mdadm.  I have been burned more than once with hardware RAID solutions.

On 6/26/2020 1:34 PM, echo test wrote:
> Hello,
> 
> First of all, please don't ask me why I simply don't want to use aws or gcp.
> 
> Then, I want to build a small data center for my company for hosting a 
> web app and a mail server. It's the first time I'm going to buy some 
> hardware for this. I tried looking for it on the web in order to compare 
> them but it seems that hardware vendors never want to talk about Debian 
> on their websites.
> 
> Seriously, I prefer using my money for donating to the Debian foundation 
> than having to pay for Ubuntu or Red Hat Enterprise because I love 
> Debian and ...
> 
> So, I want to know if It's a good idea to try using Debian in an 
> enterprise context, with hardwares like Dell EMC PowerEdge or Lenovo 
> ThinkCenter which seems to never mention that they support Debian. What 
> kind of issues can I encounter with such hardwares except simple cases 
> like having to install missing drivers with some already available 
> firmwares.
> 
> Can you give me some alternative hardwares in case this idea may take me 
> to much time to solve ?
> 
> Note: I will need some RAID solution hard or soft.
> 
> Sorry if my English is bad, it's not my mother language
> 
> Thank you.

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#224122 — Re: Advice on hardware server to use for small a dedicated data center

I've had good luck with Supermicro 1U servers - run two or more of them 
and it's easy to turn them into a high-available cluster. 
https://www.rackmountsetc.com/ has been pretty good to me when it comes 
to configuring & assembling Supermicro components (and suggesting 
specific configurations).  You might also look into Ganeti as a cluster 
management package (open source, originated at google for internal 
use).  Same horsepower & quality as a Dell or HP server, at a 
considerably lower price.

I've been running Debian this way, in a data center, for at least a 
decade. (Note:  I'm seriously considering migrating from Debian for our 
next refresh - I really don't like systemd - might go all the way to BSD 
or an OpenSolaris distro.)

One other alternative:   A lot of people seem to swear by Mac Minis as 
servers.  They're already BSD under the hood, and I've run all kinds of 
Linux distros on Macs, under virtualization.  You should be able to run 
Debian directly, though I've never tried it.

Miles Fidelman


On 6/26/2020 1:34 PM, echo test wrote:
>> Hello,
>>
>> First of all, please don't ask me why I simply don't want to use aws 
>> or gcp.
>>
>> Then, I want to build a small data center for my company for hosting 
>> a web app and a mail server. It's the first time I'm going to buy 
>> some hardware for this. I tried looking for it on the web in order to 
>> compare them but it seems that hardware vendors never want to talk 
>> about Debian on their websites.
>>
>> Seriously, I prefer using my money for donating to the Debian 
>> foundation than having to pay for Ubuntu or Red Hat Enterprise 
>> because I love Debian and ...
>>
>> So, I want to know if It's a good idea to try using Debian in an 
>> enterprise context, with hardwares like Dell EMC PowerEdge or Lenovo 
>> ThinkCenter which seems to never mention that they support Debian. 
>> What kind of issues can I encounter with such hardwares except simple 
>> cases like having to install missing drivers with some already 
>> available firmwares.
>>
>> Can you give me some alternative hardwares in case this idea may take 
>> me to much time to solve ?
>>
>> Note: I will need some RAID solution hard or soft.
>>
>> Sorry if my English is bad, it's not my mother language
>>
>> Thank you.

-- 
In theory, there is no difference between theory and practice.
In practice, there is.  .... Yogi Berra

Theory is when you know everything but nothing works.
Practice is when everything works but no one knows why.
In our lab, theory and practice are combined:
nothing works and no one knows why.  ... unknown

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#224129 — Re: Advice on hardware server to use for small a dedicated data center

Miles Fidelman wrote: 
> One other alternative:???? A lot of people seem to swear by Mac Minis as
> servers.?? They're already BSD under the hood, and I've run all kinds of
> Linux distros on Macs, under virtualization.?? You should be able to run
> Debian directly, though I've never tried it.

I don't recommend them.

They are not designed for good airflow. They use laptop CPUs. In
the last few generations, they have no replaceable parts -- no
RAM changes, no SSD replacements.

(Technically you can replace the RAM on a 2018 or 2020. It's a
20-step procedure to get to "take the RAM out" and then the same
in reverse, all the while dealing with several sizes of tiny
screws and fragile components. If you already have one, it might 
be worthwhile, but I wouldn't want to plan on it.)

-dsr-

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