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Installing/launching MATE in a command line environment

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  Installing/launching MATE in a command line environment Richard Owlett <rowlett@cloud85.net> - 2020-06-28 15:30 +0200
    Re: Installing/launching MATE in a command line environment Patrick Bartek <nemommxiv@gmail.com> - 2020-06-28 15:40 +0200
      Re: Installing/launching MATE in a command line environment Richard Owlett <rowlett@cloud85.net> - 2020-06-28 16:20 +0200
        Installing/launching MATE in a command line environment echo test <echotest09@gmail.com> - 2020-06-28 16:40 +0200
          update-alternatives - was [Re: Installing/launching MATE in a command  line environment] Richard Owlett <rowlett@cloud85.net> - 2020-06-29 14:20 +0200
            Re: update-alternatives - was [Re: Installing/launching MATE in a  command line environment] <tomas@tuxteam.de> - 2020-06-29 14:30 +0200
              Re: update-alternatives - was [Re: Installing/launching MATE in a  command line environment] Richard Owlett <rowlett@cloud85.net> - 2020-06-29 16:00 +0200
                Re: update-alternatives - was [Re: Installing/launching MATE in a  command line environment] Brian <ad44@cityscape.co.uk> - 2020-06-29 16:40 +0200
                  Re: update-alternatives - was [Re: Installing/launching MATE in a  command line environment] Richard Owlett <rowlett@cloud85.net> - 2020-06-29 17:50 +0200
            Re: update-alternatives - was [Re: Installing/launching MATE in a  command line environment] davidson <davidson@freevolt.org> - 2020-06-29 16:20 +0200
              Re: update-alternatives - was [Re: Installing/launching MATE in a  command line environment] Richard Owlett <rowlett@cloud85.net> - 2020-06-29 17:30 +0200
                Re: update-alternatives - was [Re: Installing/launching MATE in a  command line environment] Brian <ad44@cityscape.co.uk> - 2020-06-29 19:10 +0200
                Re: update-alternatives - was [Re: Installing/launching MATE in a  command line environment] Liam O'Toole <liam.p.otoole@gmail.com> - 2020-06-29 19:50 +0200
            Re: update-alternatives - was [Re: Installing/launching MATE in a  command line environment] David <bouncingcats@gmail.com> - 2020-06-30 02:40 +0200
              Re: update-alternatives - was [Re: Installing/launching MATE in a  command line environment] Richard Owlett <rowlett@cloud85.net> - 2020-06-30 12:40 +0200
          Re: Installing/launching MATE in a command line environment Greg Wooledge <wooledg@eeg.ccf.org> - 2020-06-29 14:40 +0200
            Re: Installing/launching MATE in a command line environment <tomas@tuxteam.de> - 2020-06-29 14:40 +0200
            Re: Installing/launching MATE in a command line environment Jude DaShiell <jdashiel@panix.com> - 2020-09-13 01:00 +0200
              Re: Installing/launching MATE in a command line environment Greg Wooledge <wooledg@eeg.ccf.org> - 2020-09-14 14:30 +0200
                Re: Installing/launching MATE in a command line environment Kenneth Parker <sea7kenp@gmail.com> - 2020-09-14 16:20 +0200
    Re: Installing/launching MATE in a command line environment David Wright <deblis@lionunicorn.co.uk> - 2020-06-28 17:20 +0200
      Re: Installing/launching MATE in a command line environment Richard Owlett <rowlett@cloud85.net> - 2020-06-28 18:10 +0200
        Re: Installing/launching MATE in a command line environment Brian <ad44@cityscape.co.uk> - 2020-06-28 22:00 +0200
          Re: Installing/launching MATE in a command line environment Jude DaShiell <jdashiel@panix.com> - 2020-06-28 22:50 +0200
            Re: Installing/launching MATE in a command line environment Greg Wooledge <wooledg@eeg.ccf.org> - 2020-06-29 14:40 +0200
              Re: Installing/launching MATE in a command line environment <tomas@tuxteam.de> - 2020-06-29 14:50 +0200
              Re: Installing/launching MATE in a command line environment Jude DaShiell <jdashiel@panix.com> - 2020-06-29 19:00 +0200
      [SOLVED] Re: Installing/launching MATE in a command line environment Richard Owlett <rowlett@cloud85.net> - 2020-06-29 12:10 +0200
    Re: Installing/launching MATE in a command line environment Brian <ad44@cityscape.co.uk> - 2020-06-28 20:00 +0200
    Re: Installing/launching MATE in a command line environment songbird <songbird@anthive.com> - 2020-06-29 01:40 +0200
      Re: Installing/launching MATE in a command line environment Richard Owlett <rowlett@cloud85.net> - 2020-06-29 12:10 +0200
    Re: Installing/launching MATE in a command line environment Andrei POPESCU <andreimpopescu@gmail.com> - 2020-06-29 21:20 +0200

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#224142 — Installing/launching MATE in a command line environment

The default install of the MATE desktop installs too much I don't want.
Unfortunately the Debian installer does not allow coerces the 
installation of "recommended" packages.

Therefore I did an install without *ANY* desktop environment.
[Used DVD1 of Debian 8.6, latest for which I had a physical DVD]

I then did
apt-get --no-install-recommends install mate-desktop-environment gparted

On reboot the desktop did not appear.

What is the forgotten command to automatically launch the desktop at boot?

TIA

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#224143

On Sun, 28 Jun 2020 08:21:29 -0500
Richard Owlett <rowlett@cloud85.net> wrote:

> The default install of the MATE desktop installs too much I don't want.
> Unfortunately the Debian installer does not allow coerces the 
> installation of "recommended" packages.
> 
> Therefore I did an install without *ANY* desktop environment.
> [Used DVD1 of Debian 8.6, latest for which I had a physical DVD]
> 
> I then did
> apt-get --no-install-recommends install mate-desktop-environment gparted
> 
> On reboot the desktop did not appear.
> 
> What is the forgotten command to automatically launch the desktop at boot?
> 
> TIA

Did you install the X server and its depends? Did you manually run
startx? I assume you boot to a terminal and log-in there.

B

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#224144

On 06/28/2020 08:39 AM, Patrick Bartek wrote:
> On Sun, 28 Jun 2020 08:21:29 -0500
> Richard Owlett <rowlett@cloud85.net> wrote:
> 
>> The default install of the MATE desktop installs too much I don't want.
>> Unfortunately the Debian installer does not allow coerces the
>> installation of "recommended" packages.
>>
>> Therefore I did an install without *ANY* desktop environment.
>> [Used DVD1 of Debian 8.6, latest for which I had a physical DVD]
>>
>> I then did
>> apt-get --no-install-recommends install mate-desktop-environment gparted
>>
>> On reboot the desktop did not appear.
>>
>> What is the forgotten command to automatically launch the desktop at boot?
>>
>> TIA
> 
> Did you install the X server and its depends?

No, I had assumed that was a depends. OOOPS ;/

> Did you manually run startx?

No ;}

> I assume you boot to a terminal and log-in there.

That's what happens. I had expected booting would yield the MATE desktop.


I did
apt-get --no-install-recommends install xorg
startx

That yielded a MATE desktop with a minimalist's dream menu <grin>

It does not yet boot to the MATE desktop automatically.
I've not yet investigated xorg's recommends.
I am reading https://wiki.debian.org/Xorg .
[Think I've found a typo, but need to follow the internal links to be sure.]

*Thank you*

This septuagenarian does some things the hard way to gain education ;}



> 
> B
> 
> 
> 

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#224145

[Multipart message — attachments visible in raw view] — view raw

Hello,

If you want the desktop environment to be started automatically check that
systemd is configured to run in graphical environment

 $> systemctl set-default graphical.target

If this is already setup, and you can launch your DE with startx, check also
that mate is the default DE with update-alternatives(8) or you can add the
startx command in /etc/profile.

Hope this helps.


Le dim. 28 juin 2020 à 16:15, Richard Owlett <rowlett@cloud85.net> a écrit :

> On 06/28/2020 08:39 AM, Patrick Bartek wrote:
> > On Sun, 28 Jun 2020 08:21:29 -0500
> > Richard Owlett <rowlett@cloud85.net> wrote:
> >
> >> The default install of the MATE desktop installs too much I don't want.
> >> Unfortunately the Debian installer does not allow coerces the
> >> installation of "recommended" packages.
> >>
> >> Therefore I did an install without *ANY* desktop environment.
> >> [Used DVD1 of Debian 8.6, latest for which I had a physical DVD]
> >>
> >> I then did
> >> apt-get --no-install-recommends install mate-desktop-environment gparted
> >>
> >> On reboot the desktop did not appear.
> >>
> >> What is the forgotten command to automatically launch the desktop at
> boot?
> >>
> >> TIA
> >
> > Did you install the X server and its depends?
>
> No, I had assumed that was a depends. OOOPS ;/
>
> > Did you manually run startx?
>
> No ;}
>
> > I assume you boot to a terminal and log-in there.
>
> That's what happens. I had expected booting would yield the MATE desktop.
>
>
> I did
> apt-get --no-install-recommends install xorg
> startx
>
> That yielded a MATE desktop with a minimalist's dream menu <grin>
>
> It does not yet boot to the MATE desktop automatically.
> I've not yet investigated xorg's recommends.
> I am reading https://wiki.debian.org/Xorg .
> [Think I've found a typo, but need to follow the internal links to be
> sure.]
>
> *Thank you*
>
> This septuagenarian does some things the hard way to gain education ;}
>
>
>
> >
> > B
> >
> >
> >
>
>
>
>

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#224173 — update-alternatives - was [Re: Installing/launching MATE in a command line environment]

On 06/28/2020 09:36 AM, echo test wrote:
> Hello,
> 
> If you want the desktop environment to be started automatically check that
> systemd is configured to run in graphical environment
> 
>   $> systemctl set-default graphical.target
> 
> If this is already setup, and you can launch your DE with startx, check also
> that mate is the default DE with update-alternatives(8) or you can add the
> startx command in /etc/profile.
> 

That manpage was intriguing, if not educational. I went searching for 
"update-alternatives tutorials". They all referenced Ubuntu and each 
covered only one instance.

I'm looking for something that aims to answer "What can 
update-alternatives do for me today?". IOW the manpage gives fine 
details but no sense of perspective.

TIA

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#224174 — Re: update-alternatives - was [Re: Installing/launching MATE in a command line environment]

[Multipart message — attachments visible in raw view] — view raw

On Mon, Jun 29, 2020 at 07:15:56AM -0500, Richard Owlett wrote:
> On 06/28/2020 09:36 AM, echo test wrote:
> >Hello,
> >
> >If you want the desktop environment to be started automatically check that
> >systemd is configured to run in graphical environment
> >
> >  $> systemctl set-default graphical.target
> >
> >If this is already setup, and you can launch your DE with startx, check also
> >that mate is the default DE with update-alternatives(8) or you can add the
> >startx command in /etc/profile.
> >
> 
> That manpage was intriguing, if not educational. I went searching
> for "update-alternatives tutorials". They all referenced Ubuntu and
> each covered only one instance.

FWIW, update-alternatives isn't (directly) related to the other
topics upstream.

It's intended to manage groups of workalike "applications", for example
bash, dash, etc. as alternatives to sh, or vim, elvis as alternatives
for vi.

It does so by juggling symlinks somewhere in /etc/alternatives. It's
smart enough to also juggle the relevant man pages, so that if you,
e.g. use "vim" for "vi", "man vi" will show you the vim man page.

> I'm looking for something that aims to answer "What can
> update-alternatives do for me today?". IOW the manpage gives fine
> details but no sense of perspective.

See "man update-alternatives", or this entry [1] in the Debian
wiki.

It's a Debian-specific thing.

What alternatives does for you? Mostly it does its job silently,
without complaining ;-)

Cheers

[1] https://wiki.debian.org/DebianAlternatives
-- t

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#224184 — Re: update-alternatives - was [Re: Installing/launching MATE in a command line environment]

On 06/29/2020 07:26 AM, tomas@tuxteam.de wrote:
> On Mon, Jun 29, 2020 at 07:15:56AM -0500, Richard Owlett wrote:
>> On 06/28/2020 09:36 AM, echo test wrote:
>>> Hello,
>>>
>>> If you want the desktop environment to be started automatically check that
>>> systemd is configured to run in graphical environment
>>>
>>>   $> systemctl set-default graphical.target
>>>
>>> If this is already setup, and you can launch your DE with startx, check also
>>> that mate is the default DE with update-alternatives(8) or you can add the
>>> startx command in /etc/profile.
>>>
>>
>> That manpage was intriguing, if not educational. I went searching
>> for "update-alternatives tutorials". They all referenced Ubuntu and
>> each covered only one instance.
> 
> FWIW, update-alternatives isn't (directly) related to the other
> topics upstream.
> 
> It's intended to manage groups of workalike "applications", for example
> bash, dash, etc. as alternatives to sh, or vim, elvis as alternatives
> for vi.
> 
> It does so by juggling symlinks somewhere in /etc/alternatives. It's
> smart enough to also juggle the relevant man pages, so that if you,
> e.g. use "vim" for "vi", "man vi" will show you the vim man page.
> 
>> I'm looking for something that aims to answer "What can
>> update-alternatives do for me today?". IOW the manpage gives fine
>> details but no sense of perspective.
> 
> See "man update-alternatives", or this entry [1] in the Debian
> wiki.
> 
> It's a Debian-specific thing.
> 
> What alternatives does for you? Mostly it does its job silently,
> without complaining ;-)
> 
> Cheers
> 
> [1] https://wiki.debian.org/DebianAlternatives

That is the type of page I was looking for. I think the links there will 
be valuable.

There is a "broken link" under "See Also"
Clicking on [ http://www.debian-administration.org/article/91 ] yields:
> $VAR1 = \'Can\'t connect to local MySQL server through socket \'/var/run/mysqld/mysqld.sock\' (111 "Connection refused") at ../lib/Singleton/DBI.pm line 95. '; 

[ https://debian-administration.org/ ] says:
> This site is now 100% read-only, and retired.
> This site is going to go read-only
> Posted by Steve on Sun 10 Sep 2017 at 07:02
> Tags: meta, site news
> 
> This site was born in late September 2004, and has now reached 13 years of age
> and that seems to be a fitting time to stop.

I believe a good link would be
[ 
https://web.archive.org/web/20140406045047/http://www.debian-administration.org/article/91/ 
]

Even though anyone can modify a wiki, I don't know enough about the 
topic to be comfortable doing it.

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#224186 — Re: update-alternatives - was [Re: Installing/launching MATE in a command line environment]

On Mon 29 Jun 2020 at 08:52:24 -0500, Richard Owlett wrote:

> On 06/29/2020 07:26 AM, tomas@tuxteam.de wrote:
> > On Mon, Jun 29, 2020 at 07:15:56AM -0500, Richard Owlett wrote:
> > > On 06/28/2020 09:36 AM, echo test wrote:
> > > > Hello,
> > > > 
> > > > If you want the desktop environment to be started automatically check that
> > > > systemd is configured to run in graphical environment
> > > > 
> > > >   $> systemctl set-default graphical.target
> > > > 
> > > > If this is already setup, and you can launch your DE with startx, check also
> > > > that mate is the default DE with update-alternatives(8) or you can add the
> > > > startx command in /etc/profile.
> > > > 
> > > 
> > > That manpage was intriguing, if not educational. I went searching
> > > for "update-alternatives tutorials". They all referenced Ubuntu and
> > > each covered only one instance.
> > 
> > FWIW, update-alternatives isn't (directly) related to the other
> > topics upstream.
> > 
> > It's intended to manage groups of workalike "applications", for example
> > bash, dash, etc. as alternatives to sh, or vim, elvis as alternatives
> > for vi.
> > 
> > It does so by juggling symlinks somewhere in /etc/alternatives. It's
> > smart enough to also juggle the relevant man pages, so that if you,
> > e.g. use "vim" for "vi", "man vi" will show you the vim man page.
> > 
> > > I'm looking for something that aims to answer "What can
> > > update-alternatives do for me today?". IOW the manpage gives fine
> > > details but no sense of perspective.
> > 
> > See "man update-alternatives", or this entry [1] in the Debian
> > wiki.
> > 
> > It's a Debian-specific thing.
> > 
> > What alternatives does for you? Mostly it does its job silently,
> > without complaining ;-)
> > 
> > Cheers
> > 
> > [1] https://wiki.debian.org/DebianAlternatives
> 
> That is the type of page I was looking for. I think the links there will be
> valuable.
> 
> There is a "broken link" under "See Also"
> Clicking on [ http://www.debian-administration.org/article/91 ] yields:
> > $VAR1 = \'Can\'t connect to local MySQL server through socket
> > \'/var/run/mysqld/mysqld.sock\' (111 "Connection refused") at
> > ../lib/Singleton/DBI.pm line 95. ';
> 
> [ https://debian-administration.org/ ] says:
> > This site is now 100% read-only, and retired.
> > This site is going to go read-only
> > Posted by Steve on Sun 10 Sep 2017 at 07:02
> > Tags: meta, site news
> > 
> > This site was born in late September 2004, and has now reached 13 years of age
> > and that seems to be a fitting time to stop.
> 
> I believe a good link would be
> [ https://web.archive.org/web/20140406045047/http://www.debian-administration.org/article/91/
> ]
> 
> Even though anyone can modify a wiki, I don't know enough about the topic to
> be comfortable doing it.

Mended with

 https://debian-administration.org/article/91/Using_the_Debian_alternatives_system

-- 
Brian.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 

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#224195 — Re: update-alternatives - was [Re: Installing/launching MATE in a command line environment]

On 06/29/2020 09:29 AM, Brian wrote:
> On Mon 29 Jun 2020 at 08:52:24 -0500, Richard Owlett wrote:
> 
>> On 06/29/2020 07:26 AM, tomas@tuxteam.de wrote:
>>> On Mon, Jun 29, 2020 at 07:15:56AM -0500, Richard Owlett wrote:
>>>> On 06/28/2020 09:36 AM, echo test wrote:
>>>>> Hello,
>>>>>
>>>>> If you want the desktop environment to be started automatically check that
>>>>> systemd is configured to run in graphical environment
>>>>>
>>>>>    $> systemctl set-default graphical.target
>>>>>
>>>>> If this is already setup, and you can launch your DE with startx, check also
>>>>> that mate is the default DE with update-alternatives(8) or you can add the
>>>>> startx command in /etc/profile.
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> That manpage was intriguing, if not educational. I went searching
>>>> for "update-alternatives tutorials". They all referenced Ubuntu and
>>>> each covered only one instance.
>>>
>>> FWIW, update-alternatives isn't (directly) related to the other
>>> topics upstream.
>>>
>>> It's intended to manage groups of workalike "applications", for example
>>> bash, dash, etc. as alternatives to sh, or vim, elvis as alternatives
>>> for vi.
>>>
>>> It does so by juggling symlinks somewhere in /etc/alternatives. It's
>>> smart enough to also juggle the relevant man pages, so that if you,
>>> e.g. use "vim" for "vi", "man vi" will show you the vim man page.
>>>
>>>> I'm looking for something that aims to answer "What can
>>>> update-alternatives do for me today?". IOW the manpage gives fine
>>>> details but no sense of perspective.
>>>
>>> See "man update-alternatives", or this entry [1] in the Debian
>>> wiki.
>>>
>>> It's a Debian-specific thing.
>>>
>>> What alternatives does for you? Mostly it does its job silently,
>>> without complaining ;-)
>>>
>>> Cheers
>>>
>>> [1] https://wiki.debian.org/DebianAlternatives
>>
>> That is the type of page I was looking for. I think the links there will be
>> valuable.
>>
>> There is a "broken link" under "See Also"
>> Clicking on [ http://www.debian-administration.org/article/91 ] yields:
>>> $VAR1 = \'Can\'t connect to local MySQL server through socket
>>> \'/var/run/mysqld/mysqld.sock\' (111 "Connection refused") at
>>> ../lib/Singleton/DBI.pm line 95. ';
>>
>> [ https://debian-administration.org/ ] says:
>>> This site is now 100% read-only, and retired.
>>> This site is going to go read-only
>>> Posted by Steve on Sun 10 Sep 2017 at 07:02
>>> Tags: meta, site news
>>>
>>> This site was born in late September 2004, and has now reached 13 years of age
>>> and that seems to be a fitting time to stop.
>>
>> I believe a good link would be
>> [ https://web.archive.org/web/20140406045047/http://www.debian-administration.org/article/91/
>> ]
>>
>> Even though anyone can modify a wiki, I don't know enough about the topic to
>> be comfortable doing it.
> 
> Mended with
> 
>   https://debian-administration.org/article/91/Using_the_Debian_alternatives_system
> 

Bookmarked

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#224185 — Re: update-alternatives - was [Re: Installing/launching MATE in a command line environment]

On Mon, 29 Jun 2020 Richard Owlett wrote:
> On 06/28/2020 09:36 AM, echo test wrote:
>> Hello,
>> 
>> If you want the desktop environment to be started automatically
>> check that systemd is configured to run in graphical environment
>>
>>   $> systemctl set-default graphical.target
>> 
>> If this is already setup, and you can launch your DE with startx,
>> check also that mate is the default DE with update-alternatives(8)
>> or you can add the startx command in /etc/profile.
>> 
>
> That manpage was intriguing, if not educational. I went searching
> for "update-alternatives tutorials". They all referenced Ubuntu and
> each covered only one instance.
>
> I'm looking for something that aims to answer "What can
> update-alternatives do for me today?".

Have you reviewed any notes regarding what it did for you yesterday?

If so inclined, you could review the thread which begins with this
post:

lists.debian.org/msgid-search/1e117e50-2f61-a487-9663-9b0a8a5b2a0d@cloud85.net
  To: debian-user
  Subject: Configuring WebHTTrack as I WANT
  From: Richard Owlett
  Date: Sat, 20 Jan 2018

> IOW the manpage gives fine details but no sense of perspective.

I find this claim puzzling. Possibly we are reading different documents?

  $ man update-alternatives # (in section 1, on my system, not 8)

  update-alternatives(1)   dpkg suite   update-alternatives(1)
  [...]
  DESCRIPTION

   update-alternatives creates, removes, maintains and displays
   information about the symbolic links comprising the Debian
   alternatives system.

   It is possible for several programs fulfilling the same or similar
   functions to be installed on a single system at the same time.  For
   example, many systems have several text editors installed at once.
   This gives choice to the users of a system, allowing each to use a
   different editor, if desired, but makes it difficult for a program
   to make a good choice for an editor to invoke if the user has not
   specified a particular preference.

   Debian's alternatives system aims to solve this problem.  A generic
   name in the filesystem is shared by all files providing
   interchangeable functionality.  The alternatives system and the
   system administrator together determine which actual file is
   referenced by this generic name.  For example, if the text editors
   ed(1) and nvi(1) are both installed on the system, the alternatives
   system will cause the generic name /usr/bin/editor to refer to
   /usr/bin/nvi by default.  The system administrator can override this
   and cause it to refer to /usr/bin/ed instead, and the alternatives
   system will not alter this setting until explicitly requested to do
   so.

   [...]

For a general overview, I would be hard pressed to improve on the
second and third paragraph above.

-- 
What do you want to take off? [hrzF or ?*] F
You were wearing a +0 robe.  The frost giant turns to flee.

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#224189 — Re: update-alternatives - was [Re: Installing/launching MATE in a command line environment]

On 06/29/2020 09:12 AM, davidson wrote:
> On Mon, 29 Jun 2020 Richard Owlett wrote:
>> On 06/28/2020 09:36 AM, echo test wrote:
>>> Hello,
>>>
>>> If you want the desktop environment to be started automatically
>>> check that systemd is configured to run in graphical environment
>>>
>>>   $> systemctl set-default graphical.target
>>>
>>> If this is already setup, and you can launch your DE with startx,
>>> check also that mate is the default DE with update-alternatives(8)
>>> or you can add the startx command in /etc/profile.
>>>
>>
>> That manpage was intriguing, if not educational. I went searching
>> for "update-alternatives tutorials". They all referenced Ubuntu and
>> each covered only one instance.
>>
>> I'm looking for something that aims to answer "What can
>> update-alternatives do for me today?".
> 
> Have you reviewed any notes regarding what it did for you yesterday?

Yesterday's problems stemmed from installing mate-desktop-environment 
rather than task-mate-desktop ;{

> 
> If so inclined, you could review the thread which begins with this
> post:
> 
> lists.debian.org/msgid-search/1e117e50-2f61-a487-9663-9b0a8a5b2a0d@cloud85.net 
> 
>   To: debian-user
>   Subject: Configuring WebHTTrack as I WANT
>   From: Richard Owlett
>   Date: Sat, 20 Jan 2018

That problem and this week's problems are only loosely related.
I consider the Debian installer has a design flaw in that it does not 
allow me to install _*ONLY*_ packages required by an explicit depends - 
it insists on installing some undesirable "recommended" packages.
I've abandoned that fight for the time being.

> [snip]
>
> For a general overview, I would be hard pressed to improve on the
> second and third paragraph above.
> 

I was pointed to [ https://wiki.debian.org/DebianAlternatives ] which, 
especially with its internal links, spoke to me.

Thanks

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#224205 — Re: update-alternatives - was [Re: Installing/launching MATE in a command line environment]

On Mon 29 Jun 2020 at 10:21:18 -0500, Richard Owlett wrote:

> On 06/29/2020 09:12 AM, davidson wrote:

[...]

> > Have you reviewed any notes regarding what it did for you yesterday?
> 
> Yesterday's problems stemmed from installing mate-desktop-environment rather
> than task-mate-desktop ;{
> 
> > 
> > If so inclined, you could review the thread which begins with this
> > post:
> > 
> > lists.debian.org/msgid-search/1e117e50-2f61-a487-9663-9b0a8a5b2a0d@cloud85.net
> > 
> >   To: debian-user
> >   Subject: Configuring WebHTTrack as I WANT
> >   From: Richard Owlett
> >   Date: Sat, 20 Jan 2018
> 
> That problem and this week's problems are only loosely related.
> I consider the Debian installer has a design flaw in that it does not allow
> me to install _*ONLY*_ packages required by an explicit depends - it insists
> on installing some undesirable "recommended" packages.
> I've abandoned that fight for the time being.

If you ever take it up again, a wishlist bug against tasksel would be
the way to go. Perhaps ask for a preseed option turning off Recommends:?

-- 
Brian.

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#224207 — Re: update-alternatives - was [Re: Installing/launching MATE in a command line environment]

On Mon, 29 Jun, 2020 at 10:21:18 -0500, Richard Owlett wrote:
> On 06/29/2020 09:12 AM, davidson wrote:

[...]

> > Have you reviewed any notes regarding what it did for you yesterday?
> 
> Yesterday's problems stemmed from installing mate-desktop-environment rather
> than task-mate-desktop ;{

Whoosh. davidson is reminding you that she has already explained
update-alternatives to you.

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#224219 — Re: update-alternatives - was [Re: Installing/launching MATE in a command line environment]

On Mon, 29 Jun 2020 at 22:16, Richard Owlett <rowlett@cloud85.net> wrote:

> I'm looking for something that aims to answer "What can
> update-alternatives do for me today?". IOW the manpage gives fine
> details but no sense of perspective.

Have a read of this page [1] about half-way down under the heading:
"DEBIAN SPECIFICITY Alternatives"

Actually, read the whole page, it also mentions display managers and
menu systems that you have been asking about recently.

Actually, read the whole chapter [2], it covers X and the graphical
desktop environment.

Actually, read the whole book [3].

Some of it you will already know, but it gives a great overview of
Debian administration. So it's not a specific topic to just bookmark
and forget about, it's worthwhile to actually read the whole thing,
skimming whatever is not relevant to you.

It is easy to read, has a considerable coverage, and is partially
example-based [4], a documentation style that you often request.

[1] https://debian-handbook.info/browse/stable/sect.customizing-graphical-interface.html
[2] https://debian-handbook.info/browse/stable/workstation.html
[3] https://debian-handbook.info/browse/stable/index.html
[4] https://debian-handbook.info/browse/stable/case-study.html

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#224230 — Re: update-alternatives - was [Re: Installing/launching MATE in a command line environment]

On 06/29/2020 07:38 PM, David wrote:
> On Mon, 29 Jun 2020 at 22:16, Richard Owlett <rowlett@cloud85.net> wrote:
> 
>> I'm looking for something that aims to answer "What can
>> update-alternatives do for me today?". IOW the manpage gives fine
>> details but no sense of perspective.
> 
> Have a read of this page [1] about half-way down under the heading:
> "DEBIAN SPECIFICITY Alternatives"
> 
> Actually, read the whole page, it also mentions display managers and
> menu systems that you have been asking about recently.
> 
> Actually, read the whole chapter [2], it covers X and the graphical
> desktop environment.
> 
> Actually, read the whole book [3].
> 
> Some of it you will already know, but it gives a great overview of
> Debian administration. So it's not a specific topic to just bookmark
> and forget about, it's worthwhile to actually read the whole thing,
> skimming whatever is not relevant to you.
> 
> It is easy to read, has a considerable coverage, and is partially
> example-based [4], a documentation style that you often request.
> 
> [1] https://debian-handbook.info/browse/stable/sect.customizing-graphical-interface.html
> [2] https://debian-handbook.info/browse/stable/workstation.html
> [3] https://debian-handbook.info/browse/stable/index.html
> [4] https://debian-handbook.info/browse/stable/case-study.html


Your crystal ball is working fine. An hour ago, during breakfast, I 
answered an email from a friend. I may have placed myself in a situation 
parallel to [4].

I have read portions of _The Debian Administrator's Handbook_.
The last read was a couple of years ago. I forgotten the book existed.
I downloaded the ebook. I'll be reading it with the benefit of ~8 years 
experience I didn't have when I first saw it. Thank you.

P.S. I date back to when CPU's used 12AX7's etc.

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#224176

On Sun, Jun 28, 2020 at 04:36:56PM +0200, echo test wrote:
> Hello,
> 
> If you want the desktop environment to be started automatically check that
> systemd is configured to run in graphical environment
> 
>  $> systemctl set-default graphical.target
> 
> If this is already setup, and you can launch your DE with startx, check also
> that mate is the default DE with update-alternatives(8) or you can add the
> startx command in /etc/profile.

Do not put startx in /etc/profile.

There are many different ways to run X.  One of them is to login on a
console, and run the startx command, either manually, or from your
*personal* (NOT system-wide) ~/.profile.  Typically you would surround
this call with some code that verifies you really are on a Linux console
(e.g. check whether $(tty) matches /dev/tty*) so that it doesn't fire
when you ssh in.

Another is to install a Display Manager, such as lightdm, sddm, gdm3,
xdm, etc.  There are roughly a dozen of 'em.  This is what the Desktop
Environment metapackages do.

Another is to set up "autologin", in such a way that an X session running
as some specific user is launched as soon as you boot.  This is the
common choice for "kiosk" machines.

Once you've chosen how you want to proceed, you can investigate the
details of that particular approach.  With a DM, there really isn't much
you need to know, beyond "what do I click to control the type of session".
With startx, you might choose to write a custom ~/.xsession script to
control your session startup.  I've never done autologin, so I can't say
a lot about it, but I do know that the details of setting it up will
depend on which init system you use.

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#224177

[Multipart message — attachments visible in raw view] — view raw

On Mon, Jun 29, 2020 at 08:32:58AM -0400, Greg Wooledge wrote:

[...]

> Do not put startx in /etc/profile.

Seconded. Thanks for spotting that.

Cheers
-- t

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#226950

On Mon, 29 Jun 2020, Greg Wooledge wrote:

> Date: Mon, 29 Jun 2020 08:32:58
> From: Greg Wooledge <wooledg@eeg.ccf.org>
> To: debian-user@lists.debian.org
> Subject: Re: Installing/launching MATE in a command line environment
> Resent-Date: Mon, 29 Jun 2020 12:33:17 +0000 (UTC)
> Resent-From: debian-user@lists.debian.org
>
> On Sun, Jun 28, 2020 at 04:36:56PM +0200, echo test wrote:
> > Hello,
> >
> > If you want the desktop environment to be started automatically check that
> > systemd is configured to run in graphical environment
> >
> >  $> systemctl set-default graphical.target
> >
> > If this is already setup, and you can launch your DE with startx, check also
> > that mate is the default DE with update-alternatives(8) or you can add the
> > startx command in /etc/profile.
>
> Do not put startx in /etc/profile.
>
> There are many different ways to run X.  One of them is to login on a
> console, and run the startx command, either manually, or from your
> *personal* (NOT system-wide) ~/.profile.  Typically you would surround
> this call with some code that verifies you really are on a Linux console
> (e.g. check whether $(tty) matches /dev/tty*) so that it doesn't fire
> when you ssh in.
>
> Another is to install a Display Manager, such as lightdm, sddm, gdm3,
> xdm, etc.  There are roughly a dozen of 'em.  This is what the Desktop
> Environment metapackages do.
>
> Another is to set up "autologin", in such a way that an X session running
> as some specific user is launched as soon as you boot.  This is the
> common choice for "kiosk" machines.
>
> Once you've chosen how you want to proceed, you can investigate the
> details of that particular approach.  With a DM, there really isn't much
> you need to know, beyond "what do I click to control the type of session".
> With startx, you might choose to write a custom ~/.xsession script to
> control your session startup.  I've never done autologin, so I can't say
> a lot about it, but I do know that the details of setting it up will
> depend on which init system you use.
>
Would sysctl set-default text.target display the dm on startup?
>

-- 

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#226979

On Sat, Sep 12, 2020 at 06:50:05PM -0400, Jude DaShiell wrote:
> Would sysctl set-default text.target display the dm on startup?

https://wiki.archlinux.org/index.php/systemd#Targets

There isn't a "text.target" as far as I'm aware.  multi-user.target
will skip the DM if one is installed.  graphical.target is the
default in Debian, and runs the DM if one is installed, or skips it
if none is installed.

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#226981

[Multipart message — attachments visible in raw view] — view raw

On Mon, Sep 14, 2020, 8:27 AM Greg Wooledge <wooledg@eeg.ccf.org> wrote:

> On Sat, Sep 12, 2020 at 06:50:05PM -0400, Jude DaShiell wrote:
> > Would sysctl set-default text.target display the dm on startup?
>
> https://wiki.archlinux.org/index.php/systemd#Targets
>
> There isn't a "text.target" as far as I'm aware.  multi-user.target
> will skip the DM if one is installed.  graphical.target is the
> default in Debian, and runs the DM if one is installed, or skips it
> if none is installed.
>

+1

I use "systemctl set-default multi-user.target" on all my systems (with
SystemD), and then issue "systemctl start graphical.target" when I am
satisfied. (I prefer to do the "apt-get dance" in Text Mode).

Kenneth Parker

>

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