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Groups > linux.debian.user > #223656 > unrolled thread
| Started by | Eike Lantzsch <zp6cge@gmx.net> |
|---|---|
| First post | 2020-06-19 21:20 +0200 |
| Last post | 2020-06-21 23:10 +0200 |
| Articles | 20 on this page of 108 — 42 participants |
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technical terms overhaul Eike Lantzsch <zp6cge@gmx.net> - 2020-06-19 21:20 +0200
Re: technical terms overhaul Brian <ad44@cityscape.co.uk> - 2020-06-19 21:40 +0200
Re: technical terms overhaul Greg Wooledge <wooledg@eeg.ccf.org> - 2020-06-19 21:50 +0200
Re: technical terms overhaul Brian <ad44@cityscape.co.uk> - 2020-06-19 22:00 +0200
Re: technical terms overhaul Greg Wooledge <wooledg@eeg.ccf.org> - 2020-06-19 22:10 +0200
Re: technical terms overhaul ghe2001 <ghe2001@protonmail.com> - 2020-06-19 22:20 +0200
Re: technical terms overhaul Greg Wooledge <wooledg@eeg.ccf.org> - 2020-06-19 22:20 +0200
Re: technical terms overhaul David Wright <deblis@lionunicorn.co.uk> - 2020-06-19 22:20 +0200
Re: technical terms overhaul Weaver <weaver@riseup.net> - 2020-06-20 02:40 +0200
Re: technical terms overhaul Dan Ritter <dsr@randomstring.org> - 2020-06-20 05:00 +0200
Re: technical terms overhaul ghe2001 <ghe2001@protonmail.com> - 2020-06-20 05:30 +0200
Re: technical terms overhaul Gene Heskett <gheskett@shentel.net> - 2020-06-20 06:20 +0200
Re: technical terms overhaul Weaver <weaver@riseup.net> - 2020-06-20 09:30 +0200
Re: technical terms overhaul Dan Ritter <dsr@randomstring.org> - 2020-06-20 16:00 +0200
Re: technical terms overhaul deloptes <deloptes@gmail.com> - 2020-06-20 16:40 +0200
Re: technical terms overhaul Weaver <weaver@riseup.net> - 2020-06-20 21:10 +0200
Re: technical terms overhaul Miles Fidelman <mfidelman@meetinghouse.net> - 2020-06-20 18:00 +0200
Re: technical terms overhaul Miles Fidelman <mfidelman@meetinghouse.net> - 2020-06-22 15:50 +0200
Re: technical terms overhaul deloptes <deloptes@gmail.com> - 2020-06-22 19:20 +0200
Re: technical terms overhaul Paul Johnson <baloo@ursamundi.org> - 2020-06-22 19:30 +0200
Re: technical terms overhaul Greg Wooledge <wooledg@eeg.ccf.org> - 2020-06-19 23:50 +0200
Re: technical terms overhaul Andrei POPESCU <andreimpopescu@gmail.com> - 2020-06-20 18:10 +0200
Re: technical terms overhaul Brian <ad44@cityscape.co.uk> - 2020-06-19 23:50 +0200
Re: technical terms overhaul Dan Ritter <dsr@randomstring.org> - 2020-06-19 22:40 +0200
Re: technical terms overhaul davidson <davidson@freevolt.org> - 2020-06-19 23:50 +0200
Re: technical terms overhaul Ben Caradoc-Davies <ben@transient.nz> - 2020-06-20 03:40 +0200
Re: technical terms overhaul riveravaldez <riveravaldezmail@gmail.com> - 2020-06-20 00:00 +0200
Re: technical terms overhaul Joe <joe@jretrading.com> - 2020-06-20 12:00 +0200
Re: technical terms overhaul "Thomas Schmitt" <scdbackup@gmx.net> - 2020-06-20 14:10 +0200
Re: technical terms overhaul Gene Heskett <gheskett@shentel.net> - 2020-06-20 15:30 +0200
Re: technical terms overhaul Gene Heskett <gheskett@shentel.net> - 2020-06-20 00:00 +0200
Re: technical terms overhaul Dan Ritter <dsr@randomstring.org> - 2020-06-20 00:50 +0200
Re: technical terms overhaul Celejar <celejar@gmail.com> - 2020-06-21 05:50 +0200
Re: technical terms overhaul Weaver <weaver@riseup.net> - 2020-06-21 07:00 +0200
Re: technical terms overhaul Andrei POPESCU <andreimpopescu@gmail.com> - 2020-06-21 07:50 +0200
Re: technical terms overhaul Stephan Seitz <stse+debian@rootsland.net> - 2020-06-21 12:20 +0200
Re: technical terms overhaul fmneto@gmail.com - 2020-06-19 21:50 +0200
Re: technical terms overhaul Marco Möller <talby@debianlists.mobilxpress.net> - 2020-06-19 22:30 +0200
Re: technical terms overhaul Doug <dmcgarrett@optonline.net> - 2020-06-19 23:10 +0200
Re: technical terms overhaul elvis <elvis@dogonfire.com> - 2020-06-20 16:10 +0200
Re: technical terms overhaul John Hasler <jhasler@newsguy.com> - 2020-06-20 18:10 +0200
Re: technical terms overhaul Paul Johnson <baloo@ursamundi.org> - 2020-06-19 22:40 +0200
Re: technical terms overhaul Eike Lantzsch <zp6cge@gmx.net> - 2020-06-20 01:10 +0200
Re: technical terms overhaul Larry Martell <larry.martell@gmail.com> - 2020-06-20 01:30 +0200
Re: technical terms overhaul Nicholas Geovanis <nickgeovanis@gmail.com> - 2020-06-20 01:40 +0200
Re: technical terms overhaul Larry Martell <larry.martell@gmail.com> - 2020-06-20 01:40 +0200
Re: technical terms overhaul Ben Caradoc-Davies <ben@transient.nz> - 2020-06-20 03:40 +0200
Re: technical terms overhaul deloptes <deloptes@gmail.com> - 2020-06-20 13:30 +0200
Re: technical terms overhaul <tomas@tuxteam.de> - 2020-06-20 14:00 +0200
Re: technical terms overhaul deloptes <deloptes@gmail.com> - 2020-06-20 17:00 +0200
Re: technical terms overhaul Default User <hunguponcontent@gmail.com> - 2020-06-19 23:40 +0200
Re: technical terms overhaul Andrea Borgia <andrea@borgia.bo.it> - 2020-06-20 11:30 +0200
Re: technical terms overhaul davidson <davidson@freevolt.org> - 2020-06-19 23:50 +0200
Re: technical terms overhaul rhkramer@gmail.com - 2020-06-20 01:10 +0200
Re: technical terms overhaul Eike Lantzsch <zp6cge@gmx.net> - 2020-06-20 01:20 +0200
Re: technical terms overhaul davidson <davidson@freevolt.org> - 2020-06-20 03:20 +0200
Re: technical terms overhaul davidson@freevolt.org - 2020-06-20 04:00 +0200
Re: technical terms overhaul John Hasler <jhasler@newsguy.com> - 2020-06-20 03:10 +0200
Re: technical terms overhaul Ben Caradoc-Davies <ben@transient.nz> - 2020-06-20 03:30 +0200
Re: technical terms overhaul elvis <elvis@dogonfire.com> - 2020-06-20 16:10 +0200
Re: technical terms overhaul deloptes <deloptes@gmail.com> - 2020-06-20 19:40 +0200
Re: technical terms overhaul <tomas@tuxteam.de> - 2020-06-20 20:20 +0200
Re: technical terms overhaul deloptes <deloptes@gmail.com> - 2020-06-20 22:30 +0200
Re: technical terms overhaul "Thomas Schmitt" <scdbackup@gmx.net> - 2020-06-20 20:50 +0200
Re: technical terms overhaul deloptes <deloptes@gmail.com> - 2020-06-20 22:40 +0200
Re: technical terms overhaul "Thomas Schmitt" <scdbackup@gmx.net> - 2020-06-20 23:20 +0200
Re: technical terms overhaul deloptes <deloptes@gmail.com> - 2020-06-20 23:30 +0200
Re: technical terms overhaul Celejar <celejar@gmail.com> - 2020-06-21 05:40 +0200
Re: technical terms overhaul "Thomas Schmitt" <scdbackup@gmx.net> - 2020-06-21 08:20 +0200
Re: technical terms overhaul Leslie Rhorer <lesrhorer@att.net> - 2020-06-21 09:40 +0200
Re: technical terms overhaul "Thomas Schmitt" <scdbackup@gmx.net> - 2020-06-21 11:10 +0200
Re: technical terms overhaul deloptes <deloptes@gmail.com> - 2020-06-21 11:40 +0200
Re: technical terms overhaul The Wanderer <wanderer@fastmail.fm> - 2020-06-20 21:00 +0200
Re: technical terms overhaul Francisco Mariano Neto <fmneto@usp.br> - 2020-06-20 21:40 +0200
Re: technical terms overhaul deloptes <deloptes@gmail.com> - 2020-06-20 22:50 +0200
Re: technical terms overhaul Brad Rogers <brad@fineby.me.uk> - 2020-06-20 21:40 +0200
Re: technical terms overhaul deloptes <deloptes@gmail.com> - 2020-06-20 23:00 +0200
Re: technical terms overhaul Brad Rogers <brad@fineby.me.uk> - 2020-06-21 08:00 +0200
Re: technical terms overhaul deloptes <deloptes@gmail.com> - 2020-06-21 08:40 +0200
Re: technical terms overhaul Brad Rogers <brad@fineby.me.uk> - 2020-06-21 19:50 +0200
Re: technical terms overhaul Andrei POPESCU <andreimpopescu@gmail.com> - 2020-06-20 22:10 +0200
Re: technical terms overhaul Weaver <weaver@riseup.net> - 2020-06-20 22:20 +0200
Re: technical terms overhaul deloptes <deloptes@gmail.com> - 2020-06-20 23:00 +0200
Re: technical terms overhaul Andrei POPESCU <andreimpopescu@gmail.com> - 2020-06-21 07:50 +0200
Re: technical terms overhaul rhkramer@gmail.com - 2020-06-21 17:40 +0200
Re: technical terms overhaul Rob van der Putten <rob@sput.nl> - 2020-06-21 12:20 +0200
Re: technical terms overhaul Eike Lantzsch <zp6cge@gmx.net> - 2020-06-21 13:30 +0200
Re: technical terms overhaul deloptes <deloptes@gmail.com> - 2020-06-21 14:00 +0200
Re: technical terms overhaul Joe <joe@jretrading.com> - 2020-06-21 14:20 +0200
Re: technical terms overhaul John Hasler <jhasler@newsguy.com> - 2020-06-21 16:50 +0200
Re: technical terms overhaul Jude DaShiell <jdashiel@panix.com> - 2020-06-21 17:50 +0200
Re: technical terms overhaul John Hasler <jhasler@newsguy.com> - 2020-06-21 16:20 +0200
Re: technical terms overhaul deloptes <deloptes@gmail.com> - 2020-06-21 19:00 +0200
Re: technical terms overhaul The Wanderer <wanderer@fastmail.fm> - 2020-06-21 19:10 +0200
Re: technical terms overhaul Peter Ehlert <peter@sdi-baja.com> - 2020-06-21 20:30 +0200
Re: technical terms overhaul "James H. H. Lampert" <jamesl@touchtonecorp.com> - 2020-06-21 21:00 +0200
Re: technical terms overhaul Charles Curley <charlescurley@charlescurley.com> - 2020-06-21 22:50 +0200
Re: technical terms overhaul Miles Fidelman <mfidelman@meetinghouse.net> - 2020-06-21 23:30 +0200
Re: technical terms overhaul davidson <davidson@freevolt.org> - 2020-06-21 23:30 +0200
Re: technical terms overhaul davidson@freevolt.org - 2020-06-21 23:40 +0200
Re: technical terms overhaul Joe <joe@jretrading.com> - 2020-06-21 19:30 +0200
Re: technical terms overhaul nemo <moelmoel2714@gmail.com> - 2020-06-23 22:50 +0200
Re: technical terms overhaul <tomas@tuxteam.de> - 2020-06-21 15:10 +0200
Re: technical terms overhaul davidson <davidson@freevolt.org> - 2020-06-21 18:00 +0200
Re: technical terms overhaul mick crane <mick.crane@gmail.com> - 2020-06-21 21:30 +0200
Re: technical terms overhaul John Hasler <jhasler@newsguy.com> - 2020-06-21 22:30 +0200
Re: technical terms overhaul davidson <davidson@freevolt.org> - 2020-06-21 23:00 +0200
Re: technical terms overhaul mick crane <mick.crane@gmail.com> - 2020-06-21 23:10 +0200
Page 3 of 6 — ← Prev page 1 2 [3] 4 5 6 Next page →
| From | John Hasler <jhasler@newsguy.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2020-06-20 18:10 +0200 |
| Message-ID | <AjOe5-1yv-13@gated-at.bofh.it> |
| In reply to | #223727 |
elvis writes: > If you are not a native English speaker then how do you know what > allow and reject mean? By knowing the English language and therefor having the words "allow", "reject", and "list" in his vocabulary. "Blacklist" and "whitelist" are also English words but not part of basic English[1]. One could easily have enough English to know the basic meanings of "white", "black", and "list" but still not immediately intuit the meanings of "whitelist" and "blacklist". It's hard for native speakers to see that because of the somewhat cultural association of "white" (not the race: just the color) with positive and "black" with negative. "Master" and "slave", on the other hand, are quite clear. Human slavery being extinct as a legal practice[2] and almost extinct as an illegal one I see no reason not to repurpose the terms. [1] "Blacklist" has nothing to do with race. It goes back to 17th century English politics. The term "whitelist" was invented quite recently to describe the reverse of a blacklist. [2] I consider military conscription slavery but almost no one agrees with me so that's irrelevant here. -- John Hasler jhasler@newsguy.com Elmwood, WI USA
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| From | Paul Johnson <baloo@ursamundi.org> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2020-06-19 22:40 +0200 |
| Message-ID | <AjvXQ-7kA-7@gated-at.bofh.it> |
| In reply to | #223656 |
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On Fri, Jun 19, 2020 at 2:14 PM Eike Lantzsch <zp6cge@gmx.net> wrote: > On the danger of starting a flame war ... > thinking about the article by Gunnar Wolf on Planet Debian > > instead of "whitelist" and "blacklist" I would like to propose the terms: > "allowlist" and "rejectlist" > instead of (for example on disk drives) "master" and "slave" I like to > propose > the terms: > "lead" and "lag" which are e.g. used when electrically managing two pumps > working on the same hydraulic circuit. > > What do you think? > Keeping with the color dynamic but disconnecting it from potential racial connotations, how about "redlist" and "greenlist"? I kinda feel like the five common traffic signal colors are pretty universal, especially the first three.
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| From | Eike Lantzsch <zp6cge@gmx.net> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2020-06-20 01:10 +0200 |
| Message-ID | <Ajyj0-oW-7@gated-at.bofh.it> |
| In reply to | #223671 |
On Friday, 19 June 2020 16:32:19 -04 Paul Johnson wrote: > On Fri, Jun 19, 2020 at 2:14 PM Eike Lantzsch <zp6cge@gmx.net> wrote: > > On the danger of starting a flame war ... > > thinking about the article by Gunnar Wolf on Planet Debian > > > > instead of "whitelist" and "blacklist" I would like to propose the terms: > > "allowlist" and "rejectlist" > > instead of (for example on disk drives) "master" and "slave" I like to > > propose > > the terms: > > "lead" and "lag" which are e.g. used when electrically managing two pumps > > working on the same hydraulic circuit. > > > > What do you think? > > Keeping with the color dynamic but disconnecting it from potential racial > connotations, how about "redlist" and "greenlist"? I kinda feel like the > five common traffic signal colors are pretty universal, especially the > first three. I really like "redlist" and "greenlist". Traffic lights abound in every country and are most probably well understood everywhere. Have a nice day Eike
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| From | Larry Martell <larry.martell@gmail.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2020-06-20 01:30 +0200 |
| Message-ID | <AjyCl-v8-1@gated-at.bofh.it> |
| In reply to | #223686 |
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On Fri, Jun 19, 2020 at 7:08 PM Eike Lantzsch <zp6cge@gmx.net> wrote: > > I really like "redlist" and "greenlist". Offensive to Native Americans and Martians. >
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| From | Nicholas Geovanis <nickgeovanis@gmail.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2020-06-20 01:40 +0200 |
| Message-ID | <AjyM1-ye-1@gated-at.bofh.it> |
| In reply to | #223689 |
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On Fri, Jun 19, 2020, 6:20 PM Larry Martell <larry.martell@gmail.com> wrote: > On Fri, Jun 19, 2020 at 7:08 PM Eike Lantzsch <zp6cge@gmx.net> wrote: > >> >> I really like "redlist" and "greenlist". > > > Offensive to Native Americans and Martians. > Are you Native American, like my son? >
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| From | Larry Martell <larry.martell@gmail.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2020-06-20 01:40 +0200 |
| Message-ID | <AjyM1-ye-3@gated-at.bofh.it> |
| In reply to | #223690 |
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On Fri, Jun 19, 2020 at 7:34 PM Nicholas Geovanis <nickgeovanis@gmail.com> wrote: > > > On Fri, Jun 19, 2020, 6:20 PM Larry Martell <larry.martell@gmail.com> > wrote: > >> On Fri, Jun 19, 2020 at 7:08 PM Eike Lantzsch <zp6cge@gmx.net> wrote: >> >>> >>> I really like "redlist" and "greenlist". >> >> >> Offensive to Native Americans and Martians. >> > > Are you Native American, like my son? > >> No just pointing out that everyone is offended by something these days.
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| From | Ben Caradoc-Davies <ben@transient.nz> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2020-06-20 03:40 +0200 |
| Message-ID | <AjAE9-1Ev-5@gated-at.bofh.it> |
| In reply to | #223689 |
On 20/06/2020 11:19, Larry Martell wrote: > On Fri, Jun 19, 2020 at 7:08 PM Eike Lantzsch <zp6cge@gmx.net> wrote: >> I really like "redlist" and "greenlist". > Offensive to Native Americans and Martians. And also culturally confusing to some Chinese in which red is a happy colour. As I understand it, Chinese stock market colour coding is opposite to Western. Red/green is also the most common form of colour-blindness. Kind regards, -- Ben Caradoc-Davies <ben@transient.nz> Director Transient Software Limited <https://transient.nz/> New Zealand
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| From | deloptes <deloptes@gmail.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2020-06-20 13:30 +0200 |
| Message-ID | <AjJR7-7iS-3@gated-at.bofh.it> |
| In reply to | #223686 |
Eike Lantzsch wrote: > I really like "redlist" and "greenlist". Traffic lights abound in every > country and are most probably well understood everywhere. > Have a nice day > Eike I think you deal with symptoms and not with the causes. Obama was 8y in power - what he did? Right - nothing! You all are going crazy with this stuff. Changing names does not change reality. Also in the computer world no person is affected, so nothing racial here. Redlist/green list - penny lane or whatever - you are out of your mind. I have a better idea - let us forbid the colors white and black, because people like you may think they reffer to race. F**king crazy you are! You must understand that only through education something will change - so better take care that the democrats stop hindering the black access to education in the US and stop promoting lies around. Hey Eike wake up! It has nothing to do with race ... oh oh just forgot to mention in the holy scripts it is mentioned black and white - should be change it ... may be we should stop saying day and night ... oh ... there are so many things you have to take care of ... don't stop. I can't describe it with other word but "idiotic". This was the worse spam I've read here.
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| From | <tomas@tuxteam.de> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2020-06-20 14:00 +0200 |
| Message-ID | <AjKk9-7sL-1@gated-at.bofh.it> |
| In reply to | #223719 |
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On Sat, Jun 20, 2020 at 01:20:15PM +0200, deloptes wrote: > Eike Lantzsch wrote: > > > I really like "redlist" and "greenlist". Traffic lights abound in every > > country and are most probably well understood everywhere. > > Have a nice day > > Eike > > I think you deal with symptoms and not with the causes. > Obama was 8y in power - what he did? Right - nothing! I guess opinions on that will vary. I don't know whether this is a language problem, but I feel you tend to state your opinions as if they were facts: that's somewhat disturbing to me. > You all are going crazy with this stuff. Changing names does not change > reality. Also in the computer world no person is affected, so nothing > racial here. Language carries power relationships. At least this is something most sociologists agree on these days [1], albeit there is criticism. So "changing names does not change reality" is at least a [citation needed]. Therefore I find such discussions very welcome. Personally, I'd even go out on a limb and risk the assertion that it's the discussion itself which raises awareness of possible perception problems, not its eventual outcome. Cheers [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sociology_of_language#Sapir-Whorf_Hypothesis -- tomás
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| From | deloptes <deloptes@gmail.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2020-06-20 17:00 +0200 |
| Message-ID | <AjN8l-Hf-5@gated-at.bofh.it> |
| In reply to | #223720 |
tomas@tuxteam.de wrote: >> I think you deal with symptoms and not with the causes. >> Obama was 8y in power - what he did? Right - nothing! > > I guess opinions on that will vary. I don't know whether this is a > language problem, but I feel you tend to state your opinions as if > they were facts: that's somewhat disturbing to me. > Well when there is no measure of truth anyone is right in his/her own view. This is what is disturbing me most. Some people (usually on the left) can not accept that those (usually on the right) also have the right to be right. The way to solve misunderstandings and conflicts is through discussion/dialog and understanding. >> You all are going crazy with this stuff. Changing names does not change >> reality. Also in the computer world no person is affected, so nothing >> racial here. > > Language carries power relationships. At least this is something most > sociologists agree on these days [1], albeit there is criticism. So > "changing names does not change reality" is at least a [citation needed]. > The problem with sociology is the lack of evidence for their assertions. It is a long story to put it here, but we do not have to agree with each and every sociologist or psychologist. Also in terms of language we see today things that were already tried in societies experimenting with communism - it does not work. Indeed language reflects reality, but it also reflects truth and even if you try to propose something today it will fade in some decades because it is not based on truth. It is simply waste of time and energy. I've been thinking over this for about 20-25y and I always come to one and the same conclusion. The problem is lack of Enlightment. The solution of our problems today (wars, hunger, environment etc.) is Enlightment. Only enlightent people can bring sustainable change. > Therefore I find such discussions very welcome. Personally, I'd even > go out on a limb and risk the assertion that it's the discussion > itself which raises awareness of possible perception problems, not > its eventual outcome. Agreed, but my impression is that there are too many out there willing to impose their perception to the others even with force ... and we have seen this in the past centuries (fascism, communism etc.) - we do not want this, hence we do not want this discussion here in this way. It is f**king colors white=light/sun/truth, black=darkness/night/lie. It has nothing to do with African or European (also called Caucasian for unknown reason to me in the US - according to me it should be Euroasian) Also there is nothing wrong being black or white - belonging to specific race. Why this all stupidity now? And why here on this list? regards
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| From | Default User <hunguponcontent@gmail.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2020-06-19 23:40 +0200 |
| Message-ID | <AjwTT-7T3-7@gated-at.bofh.it> |
| In reply to | #223656 |
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On Fri, Jun 19, 2020, 15:14 Eike Lantzsch <zp6cge@gmx.net> wrote: > On the danger of starting a flame war ... > thinking about the article by Gunnar Wolf on Planet Debian > > instead of "whitelist" and "blacklist" I would like to propose the terms: > "allowlist" and "rejectlist" > instead of (for example on disk drives) "master" and "slave" I like to > propose > the terms: > "lead" and "lag" which are e.g. used when electrically managing two pumps > working on the same hydraulic circuit. > > What do you think? > I think that is absolutely ridiculous.
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| From | Andrea Borgia <andrea@borgia.bo.it> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2020-06-20 11:30 +0200 |
| Message-ID | <AjHYZ-6aq-1@gated-at.bofh.it> |
| In reply to | #223674 |
Il 19/06/20 23:39, Default User ha scritto: > I think that is absolutely ridiculous. Amen.
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| From | davidson <davidson@freevolt.org> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2020-06-19 23:50 +0200 |
| Message-ID | <Ajx3A-7Wp-9@gated-at.bofh.it> |
| In reply to | #223656 |
On Fri, 19 Jun 2020, Eike Lantzsch wrote: > On the danger of starting a flame war ... > thinking about the article by Gunnar Wolf on Planet Debian Link? > instead of "whitelist" and "blacklist" I would like to propose the terms: > "allowlist" and "rejectlist" shitlist and shortlist. Santa's naughtylist and nicelist. hotlist and notlist. Shall I continue? > instead of (for example on disk drives) "master" and "slave" I like to propose > the terms: > "lead" and "lag" which are e.g. used when electrically managing two pumps > working on the same hydraulic circuit. > > What do you think? I will reserve judgement on the merits of your proposal until I have read the piece of G Wolf's to which you have yet to provide the link. -- https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=12518471 alexk already addressed your concern: your keys, preferably issued by your org's CA (instead of being generated by you) should be short-lived, oftentimes for the duration of your "work shift". The tools listed above support this.
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| From | rhkramer@gmail.com |
|---|---|
| Date | 2020-06-20 01:10 +0200 |
| Message-ID | <AjyiZ-oW-1@gated-at.bofh.it> |
| In reply to | #223678 |
On Friday, June 19, 2020 05:42:51 PM davidson wrote: > On Fri, 19 Jun 2020, Eike Lantzsch wrote: > > On the danger of starting a flame war ... > > thinking about the article by Gunnar Wolf on Planet Debian > > Link? I'm not the OP (I'm sitting in the peanut gallery). Google worked, sort of -- apparently the "root" article is on LWN and behind a paywall until the 25th or so. The following is what Gunnar Wolfe wrote on his home page, basically pointing to the article. I don't know who the author of the article is, I suspect it it the editor of LWN (whose name I can't recall atm): Quoting from http://gwolf.org/: On masters and slaves, whitelists and blacklists... 2020.06.18 LWN published today yet another great piece of writing, Loaded terms in free software. I am sorry, the content will not be immediately available to anybody following at home, as LWN is based on a subscription model — But a week from now, the article will be open for anybody to read. Or you can ask me (you most likely can find my contact addresses, as they are basically everywhere) for a subscriber link, I will happily provide it. In consonance with the current mood that started with the killing of George Floyd and sparked worldwide revolts against police brutality,...
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| From | Eike Lantzsch <zp6cge@gmx.net> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2020-06-20 01:20 +0200 |
| Message-ID | <AjysG-sf-7@gated-at.bofh.it> |
| In reply to | #223678 |
On Friday, 19 June 2020 17:42:51 -04 davidson wrote: > On Fri, 19 Jun 2020, Eike Lantzsch wrote: > > On the danger of starting a flame war ... > > thinking about the article by Gunnar Wolf on Planet Debian > > Link? https://gwolf.org/2020/06/on-masters-and-slaves-whitelists-and-blacklists.html I thought that Planet Debian is well known on this list. I'm sorry not to have provided the link right away. [rest snipped as I did not intend to use offensive speech - rather the opposite] All the best to you -- Eike Lantzsch ZP6CGE
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| From | davidson <davidson@freevolt.org> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2020-06-20 03:20 +0200 |
| Message-ID | <AjAkN-1yq-1@gated-at.bofh.it> |
| In reply to | #223688 |
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On Fri, 19 Jun 2020, Eike Lantzsch wrote: > On Friday, 19 June 2020 17:42:51 -04 davidson wrote: >> On Fri, 19 Jun 2020, Eike Lantzsch wrote: >>> On the danger of starting a flame war ... >>> thinking about the article by Gunnar Wolf on Planet Debian >> >> Link? > https://gwolf.org/2020/06/on-masters-and-slaves-whitelists-and-blacklists.html > I thought that Planet Debian is well known on this list. I'm sorry > not to have provided the link right away. I am glad to have the link. Thank you. Let us remember that $Giantcorp and $Nationstate hold power at orders of magnitude higher than we do, who are the poor slobs who may be incited (or not) to fight over just how woke (or not) to make this relatively non-technical vocabulary. $Giantcorp will be happy to call their filters whatever. And change nothing meaningful. Blacklist/whitelist are folksy names for the dual concepts of filter/ideal, respectively. No need to make up new words. The famously Woke field of mathematics already did the work for us. We don't call it St Petersburg due to our fervent anti-communist beliefs. And when we called it Leningrad, that told you nothing meaningful about our ideology either. And so on. We called it whatever we called it because the historical analogues of $Giantcorp and $Nationstate, in terms of real power---including the power to name things---decided that's what it was called. $Giantcorp will be very happy to change some names, and watch us pretend that not only has something meaningful changed, but that it was us who changed it. $Giantcorp just loves it when we delude ourselves. Gunnar Wolf writes, Etymological discussions on what, say, “master” really means may be interesting, but they miss the point and are irrelevant to this discussion. and I agree with Wolf there, if nowhere else. Meaning is not at all the point. Power is the point. We are MEANT to think meaning is at issue. We are meant to be idiots divided. Naming things is a demonstration of power you already have. The name you choose doesn't matter. $Giantcorp knows this. Contentious spats about the names of things don't change the world. Names are not magic words. The world changes names, not the other way around. (Go ahead, find a counterexample and I'll promptly retract my claim.) > [rest snipped as I did not intend to use offensive speech - rather > the opposite] Getting some strong Poe's Law vibes from you here. Thanks for the laugh. > All the best to you You too, dear stranger. Stay free. -- https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=12518471 alexk already addressed your concern: your keys, preferably issued by your org's CA (instead of being generated by you) should be short-lived, oftentimes for the duration of your "work shift". The tools listed above support this.
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| From | davidson@freevolt.org |
|---|---|
| Date | 2020-06-20 04:00 +0200 |
| Message-ID | <AjAXv-1Lf-1@gated-at.bofh.it> |
| In reply to | #223696 |
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On Sat, 20 Jun 2020, davidson wrote: [snip] > Blacklist/whitelist are folksy names for the dual concepts of > filter/ideal, respectively. This is false, and I am duly embarrassed. I will see myself out now. -- @almightygenie 8 Jun 2020 | @Windex Thanks, Windex. That’s a relief. Your drink is even more refreshing now that I know that it deplores racism & discrimination. twitter.com/almightygenie/status/1270096054864809988
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| From | John Hasler <jhasler@newsguy.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2020-06-20 03:10 +0200 |
| Message-ID | <AjAb7-1vl-3@gated-at.bofh.it> |
| In reply to | #223656 |
Eike writes: > instead of "whitelist" and "blacklist" I would like to propose the terms: > "allowlist" and "rejectlist" Yes, that improves communications. The words are no longer and express their meanings quite directly. > instead of (for example on disk drives) "master" and "slave" I like to > propose the terms: "lead" and "lag" which are e.g. used when > electrically managing two pumps working on the same hydraulic circuit. Incomprehensible to most people and not technically correct. A device with leading phase (by some measure: it may have lagging phase by another) does not necessarily control one with lagging phase. -- John Hasler jhasler@newsguy.com Elmwood, WI USA
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| From | Ben Caradoc-Davies <ben@transient.nz> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2020-06-20 03:30 +0200 |
| Message-ID | <AjAut-1Bo-1@gated-at.bofh.it> |
| In reply to | #223656 |
On 20/06/2020 07:14, Eike Lantzsch wrote: > instead of (for example on disk drives) "master" and "slave" I like to propose > the terms This discussion reminds me of the PC gaming supremacists on the pcmasterrace subreddit <https://old.reddit.com/r/pcmasterrace/>. The term "master" has a long history. In addition to its racial connotations, it is also gendered. Kind regards, -- Ben Caradoc-Davies <ben@transient.nz> Director Transient Software Limited <https://transient.nz/> New Zealand
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| From | elvis <elvis@dogonfire.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2020-06-20 16:10 +0200 |
| Message-ID | <AjMlY-qY-5@gated-at.bofh.it> |
| In reply to | #223656 |
On 20/6/20 5:14 am, Eike Lantzsch wrote: > On the danger of starting a flame war ... > thinking about the article by Gunnar Wolf on Planet Debian > > instead of "whitelist" and "blacklist" I would like to propose the terms: Since the terms have nothing to do with race, then no. Are you proposing to rename everything with the word black in it? Sometimes a cigar is just a cigar. > "allowlist" and "rejectlist" > instead of (for example on disk drives) "master" and "slave" I like to propose > the terms: But it is a master and slave relationship. So what? How is this related in any way to human masters and slaves? > "lead" and "lag" which are e.g. used when electrically managing two pumps > working on the same hydraulic circuit. > > What do you think? > > All the best > Eike > -- > Eike Lantzsch ZP6CGE > > Paradox: Getting live-updates about fatalities > > > -- Or people are just trying to start shit. No, no - "People are just trying to contribute in the ways they are capable of" is the proper form; always look for positive-sounding equivalents.
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