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Offline systems

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  Offline systems Peter <peter@aboutsupport.com> - 2020-09-20 16:50 +0200
    Re: Offline systems Dan Ritter <dsr@randomstring.org> - 2020-09-20 17:10 +0200
    Re: Offline systems Hans <hans.ullrich@loop.de> - 2020-09-20 17:10 +0200
      Re: Offline systems Peter <peter@aboutsupport.com> - 2020-09-20 17:50 +0200
        Re: Offline systems deloptes <deloptes@gmail.com> - 2020-09-21 00:50 +0200
    Re: Offline systems mick crane <mick.crane@gmail.com> - 2020-09-20 17:20 +0200
      Re: Offline systems "Thomas Schmitt" <scdbackup@gmx.net> - 2020-09-20 17:40 +0200
        Re: Offline systems mick crane <mick.crane@gmail.com> - 2020-09-20 17:50 +0200
          Re: Offline systems "Thomas Schmitt" <scdbackup@gmx.net> - 2020-09-20 18:10 +0200
          Re: Offline systems Andrew Cater <amacater@gmail.com> - 2020-09-20 18:30 +0200
            Re: Offline systems Peter <peter@aboutsupport.com> - 2020-09-21 07:10 +0200
              Re: Offline systems David Christensen <dpchrist@holgerdanske.com> - 2020-09-21 07:20 +0200
              Re: Offline systems Andrei POPESCU <andreimpopescu@gmail.com> - 2020-09-21 08:50 +0200
              Re: Offline systems deloptes <deloptes@gmail.com> - 2020-09-21 12:10 +0200

#227164 — Offline systems

Hi,

I want to setup a few servers(30+) on  intranet network and NONE(not
even a master server or anything like that) of them having internet access.

What is best approach so I can still install packages on demand ?

Try to make custom repo  ? But in this case what will be the proper 
procedure to update the repo ?

What is your advice ?

Thank you,

Peter

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#227165

Peter wrote: 
> Hi,
> 
> I want to setup a few servers(30+) on  intranet network and NONE(not
> even a master server or anything like that) of them having internet access.
> 
> What is best approach so I can still install packages on demand ?
> 
> Try to make custom repo  ? But in this case what will be the proper
> procedure to update the repo ?
> 
> What is your advice ?

I'm assuming you have internet access somewhere else, and can
regularly download packages to removable media, then bring it
back to your isolated network.

You can use apt-mirror to bring over new packages to the
removable media, then move it over to a server on your network
which can be set up as the apt server for the other machines.

aptly may be useful in accepting the new packages and publishing
them locally.

-dsr-

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#227166

[Multipart message — attachments visible in raw view] — view raw

Am Sonntag, 20. September 2020, 16:46:04 CEST schrieb Peter:
Hi,

I would install with the full-install dvd, not netinst. Then you could setup 
an own repo (by mirroring the one you need). 

At last point the servers to your own repo server.

However, besides, i personally would never trust those servers when someone 
else is adminitrating them, especially within a company. Do you really know, 
if those packages are not compromised to spy at the eployees???

Best

Hans
> Hi,
> 
> I want to setup a few servers(30+) on  intranet network and NONE(not
> even a master server or anything like that) of them having internet access.
> 
> What is best approach so I can still install packages on demand ?
> 
> Try to make custom repo  ? But in this case what will be the proper
> procedure to update the repo ?
> 
> What is your advice ?
> 
> Thank you,
> 
> Peter

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#227170

Hi ,

I will be administering all the servers. I can trust them, I just cannot 
have internet in that net. The number of servers can go up to 70.
Also servers are in different location with relatively slow(1-5 Mb/s) 
connections.

Do you see any drawbacks if I copy the 3 DVD of Debian 10 on each 
machine initially, mount them and use them if I want to to install 
something e.g nano at some point ?

Thanks,

Peter





On 20/09/2020 18:01, Hans wrote:
> Am Sonntag, 20. September 2020, 16:46:04 CEST schrieb Peter:
> Hi,
>
> I would install with the full-install dvd, not netinst. Then you could setup
> an own repo (by mirroring the one you need).
>
> At last point the servers to your own repo server.
>
> However, besides, i personally would never trust those servers when someone
> else is adminitrating them, especially within a company. Do you really know,
> if those packages are not compromised to spy at the eployees???
>
> Best
>
> Hans
>> Hi,
>>
>> I want to setup a few servers(30+) on  intranet network and NONE(not
>> even a master server or anything like that) of them having internet access.
>>
>> What is best approach so I can still install packages on demand ?
>>
>> Try to make custom repo  ? But in this case what will be the proper
>> procedure to update the repo ?
>>
>> What is your advice ?
>>
>> Thank you,
>>
>> Peter
>

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#227182

Peter wrote:

> Do you see any drawbacks if I copy the 3 DVD of Debian 10 on each
> machine initially, mount them and use them if I want to to install
> something e.g nano at some point ?

I don't see any issue with that. I copy the iso images, mount them and add
them as source. I think 1-5Mbps is still good enough for using one single
server as a source, but if you have diskspace, you could do on each of
them.

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#227167

On 2020-09-20 15:46, Peter wrote:
> Hi,
> 
> I want to setup a few servers(30+) on  intranet network and NONE(not
> even a master server or anything like that) of them having internet 
> access.
> 
> What is best approach so I can still install packages on demand ?
> 
> Try to make custom repo  ? But in this case what will be the proper
> procedure to update the repo ?
> 
> What is your advice ?
> 
You'll want "something" connected to the internet to get updates.
Somebody mentioned jigdo which looked like a good thing.
Depends how paranoid you are. You could take disk or whatever from that 
separate, connected to internet machine and use that as your repository 
I imagine.

mick


-- 
Key ID    4BFEBB31

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#227168

Hi,

mick crane wrote:
> Somebody mentioned jigdo which looked like a good thing.

Jigdo is used for making ISO images from a frame of ISO 9660 metadata and
other non-packaged stuff (the .template file), and the .deb packages on a
mirror, or in a repository, or in an older ISO image.
The .jigdo file contains the list of packages which shall be inserted into
the frame.

So except that you get them wrapped in an ISO image, the packages are just
the same as on the mirror server (or other package source) from which you
could fetch them by appropriate means.


Have a nice day :)

Thomas

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#227169

On 2020-09-20 16:31, Thomas Schmitt wrote:
> Hi,
> 
> mick crane wrote:
>> Somebody mentioned jigdo which looked like a good thing.
> 
> Jigdo is used for making ISO images from a frame of ISO 9660 metadata 
> and
> other non-packaged stuff (the .template file), and the .deb packages on 
> a
> mirror, or in a repository, or in an older ISO image.
> The .jigdo file contains the list of packages which shall be inserted 
> into
> the frame.
> 
> So except that you get them wrapped in an ISO image, the packages are 
> just
> the same as on the mirror server (or other package source) from which 
> you
> could fetch them by appropriate means.
> 
> 
> Have a nice day :)
> 
> Thomas

What's the best appropriate means then to fetch mirror and then only 
fetch differences to local copy ? wget does that doesn't it ?
Not that I want to but wondered.

mick


-- 
Key ID    4BFEBB31

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#227171

Hi,

mick crane wrote:
> What's the best appropriate means then to fetch mirror and then only fetch
> differences to local copy ? wget does that doesn't it ?

That's indeed an old selling point of Jigdo: No need to download packages
which you already have.

But you need a pair of .jigdo and .template files which Debian produces for
its ISOs in order to get a new download list. And in the end the new ISO
will be as big as if all packages had been downloaded.

Whatever, Jigdo might have a role in this thread.


Peter wrote:
> Do you see any drawbacks if I copy the 3 DVD of Debian 10 on each machine
> initially, mount them and use them if I want to to install something e.g
> nano at some point ?

Should work. But you might get better performance if you unpack the ISO's
"pool" trees into a common "pool" tree on hard disk. One level of mount less.

Jigdo could bring you bigger single ISOs for either of the approaches.
16 GB:  https://cdimage.debian.org/debian-cd/current/amd64/jigdo-16G/
25 GB:  https://cdimage.debian.org/debian-cd/current/amd64/jigdo-bd/
50 GB:  https://cdimage.debian.org/debian-cd/current/amd64/jigdo-dlbd/

(I wonder what software ends up in DLBD-2 or BD-4 ...)


Have a nice day :)

Thomas

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#227172

[Multipart message — attachments visible in raw view] — view raw

Myself - I might use the 16G stick as install medium - see conversations
elsewhere in this list on how to use jigod. That gives you the contents of
more than DVD 1 to DVD 3 in one small format. These are up to 70 real,
physical servers and not VMs? You might want to look at automated ways to
deploy and build that many servers.

What you're asking is possible - but not necessarily a good move: Debian
changes daily with fixes, security fixes and so on. Unless you are going to
build them and then walk away completely - build a mirror which is
dual-homed: you can connect it to the internet to pull in updates very
regularly, then disconnect form the internet and use this machine to update
all of the others.

All the very best, as ever,

Andy C

On Sun, Sep 20, 2020 at 3:47 PM mick crane <mick.crane@gmail.com> wrote:

> On 2020-09-20 16:31, Thomas Schmitt wrote:
> > Hi,
> >
> > mick crane wrote:
> >> Somebody mentioned jigdo which looked like a good thing.
> >
> > Jigdo is used for making ISO images from a frame of ISO 9660 metadata
> > and
> > other non-packaged stuff (the .template file), and the .deb packages on
> > a
> > mirror, or in a repository, or in an older ISO image.
> > The .jigdo file contains the list of packages which shall be inserted
> > into
> > the frame.
> >
> > So except that you get them wrapped in an ISO image, the packages are
> > just
> > the same as on the mirror server (or other package source) from which
> > you
> > could fetch them by appropriate means.
> >
> >
> > Have a nice day :)
> >
> > Thomas
>
> What's the best appropriate means then to fetch mirror and then only
> fetch differences to local copy ? wget does that doesn't it ?
> Not that I want to but wondered.
>
> mick
>
>
> --
> Key ID    4BFEBB31
>
>

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#227194

Hi,

 >These are up to 70
 > real, physical servers and not VMs? You might want to look at automated
 > ways to deploy and build that many servers.

All 70 will be physical. I think about making 1 single server then using 
hdclone or acronis to make copy of it to the rest. Then write a small 
bash script for the onsite tech to change IP. Better ideas ? :-)

Peter


On 20/09/2020 19:23, Andrew Cater wrote:
> Myself - I might use the 16G stick as install medium - see conversations
> elsewhere in this list on how to use jigod. That gives you the contents
> of more than DVD 1 to DVD 3 in one small format. These are up to 70
> real, physical servers and not VMs? You might want to look at automated
> ways to deploy and build that many servers.
>
> What you're asking is possible - but not necessarily a good move: Debian
> changes daily with fixes, security fixes and so on. Unless you are going
> to build them and then walk away completely - build a mirror which is
> dual-homed: you can connect it to the internet to pull in updates very
> regularly, then disconnect form the internet and use this machine to
> update all of the others.
>
> All the very best, as ever,
>
> Andy C
>
> On Sun, Sep 20, 2020 at 3:47 PM mick crane <mick.crane@gmail.com
> <mailto:mick.crane@gmail.com>> wrote:
>
>     On 2020-09-20 16:31, Thomas Schmitt wrote:
>      > Hi,
>      >
>      > mick crane wrote:
>      >> Somebody mentioned jigdo which looked like a good thing.
>      >
>      > Jigdo is used for making ISO images from a frame of ISO 9660
>     metadata
>      > and
>      > other non-packaged stuff (the .template file), and the .deb
>     packages on
>      > a
>      > mirror, or in a repository, or in an older ISO image.
>      > The .jigdo file contains the list of packages which shall be
>     inserted
>      > into
>      > the frame.
>      >
>      > So except that you get them wrapped in an ISO image, the packages
>     are
>      > just
>      > the same as on the mirror server (or other package source) from
>     which
>      > you
>      > could fetch them by appropriate means.
>      >
>      >
>      > Have a nice day :)
>      >
>      > Thomas
>
>     What's the best appropriate means then to fetch mirror and then only
>     fetch differences to local copy ? wget does that doesn't it ?
>     Not that I want to but wondered.
>
>     mick
>
>
>     --
>     Key ID    4BFEBB31
>

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#227195

On 2020-09-20 22:04, Peter wrote:
> Hi,
> 
>  >These are up to 70
>  > real, physical servers and not VMs? You might want to look at automated
>  > ways to deploy and build that many servers.
> 
> All 70 will be physical. I think about making 1 single server then using 
> hdclone or acronis to make copy of it to the rest. Then write a small 
> bash script for the onsite tech to change IP. Better ideas ? :-)

https://www.clonezilla.org/

(They currently seem to be having problems with their https certificate.)


David

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#227199

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On Lu, 21 sep 20, 08:04:58, Peter wrote:
> Hi,
> 
> >These are up to 70
> > real, physical servers and not VMs? You might want to look at automated
> > ways to deploy and build that many servers.
> 
> All 70 will be physical. I think about making 1 single server then using
> hdclone or acronis to make copy of it to the rest. Then write a small bash
> script for the onsite tech to change IP. Better ideas ? :-)

There's also ssh keys, partition UUIDs and other things that should be 
changed and/or regenerated.

FAI[1] was explicitly designed for your use case.

To manage the servers after installation you might want something like 
puppet, ansible, chef, salt, etc.

[1] https://fai-project.org

Kind regards,
Andrei
-- 
http://wiki.debian.org/FAQsFromDebianUser

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#227202

Peter wrote:

> All 70 will be physical. I think about making 1 single server then using
> hdclone or acronis to make copy of it to the rest. Then write a small
> bash script for the onsite tech to change IP. Better ideas ? :-)

ansible
 you invest time to configure (perhaps to learn as well)
 you save time on maintenance

or ansible alternatives like puppet or openstack

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