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Groups > linux.debian.user > #226151 > unrolled thread
| Started by | rhkramer@gmail.com |
|---|---|
| First post | 2020-08-13 02:20 +0200 |
| Last post | 2020-08-15 13:00 +0200 |
| Articles | 6 on this page of 26 — 16 participants |
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Recommendation for filesystem for USB external drive for backups rhkramer@gmail.com - 2020-08-13 02:20 +0200
Re: Recommendation for filesystem for USB external drive for backups Keith Bainbridge <keithrbaugroups@gmail.com> - 2020-08-13 02:40 +0200
Re: Recommendation for filesystem for USB external drive for backups Ben Caradoc-Davies <ben@transient.nz> - 2020-08-13 03:00 +0200
Re: Recommendation for filesystem for USB external drive for backups <tomas@tuxteam.de> - 2020-08-13 11:00 +0200
Re: Recommendation for filesystem for USB external drive for backups Mark Allums <maa@allums.com> - 2020-08-13 03:20 +0200
Re: Recommendation for filesystem for USB external drive for backups Charles Curley <charlescurley@charlescurley.com> - 2020-08-13 05:20 +0200
Re: Recommendation for filesystem for USB external drive for backups <tomas@tuxteam.de> - 2020-08-13 11:00 +0200
Re: Recommendation for filesystem for USB external drive for backups David Christensen <dpchrist@holgerdanske.com> - 2020-08-13 10:40 +0200
Re: Recommendation for filesystem for USB external drive for backups Tom Dial <tddial@comcast.net> - 2020-08-13 20:10 +0200
Re: Recommendation for filesystem for USB external drive for backups rhkramer@gmail.com - 2020-08-13 22:00 +0200
Re: Recommendation for filesystem for USB external drive for backups David Christensen <dpchrist@holgerdanske.com> - 2020-08-13 22:20 +0200
Re: Recommendation for filesystem for USB external drive for backups Greg Wooledge <wooledg@eeg.ccf.org> - 2020-08-13 22:40 +0200
Re: Recommendation for filesystem for USB external drive for backups Dan Ritter <dsr@randomstring.org> - 2020-08-13 23:00 +0200
Re: Recommendation for filesystem for USB external drive for backups ghe2001 <ghe2001@protonmail.com> - 2020-08-13 23:40 +0200
Re: Recommendation for filesystem for USB external drive for backups Jonathan Dowland <jon+debian-user@dow.land> - 2020-08-14 11:40 +0200
Re: Recommendation for filesystem for USB external drive for backups <tomas@tuxteam.de> - 2020-08-14 12:00 +0200
Re: Recommendation for filesystem for USB external drive for backups rhkramer@gmail.com - 2020-08-14 03:30 +0200
Re: Recommendation for filesystem for USB external drive for backups David Christensen <dpchrist@holgerdanske.com> - 2020-08-14 07:10 +0200
Re: Recommendation for filesystem for USB external drive for backups Tom Dial <tddial@comcast.net> - 2020-08-14 04:50 +0200
Re: Recommendation for filesystem for USB external drive for backups David Christensen <dpchrist@holgerdanske.com> - 2020-08-20 00:10 +0200
Re: Recommendation for filesystem for USB external drive for backups Ben Caradoc-Davies <ben@transient.nz> - 2020-08-20 01:40 +0200
Re: Recommendation for filesystem for USB external drive for backups Michael Stone <mstone@debian.org> - 2020-08-20 04:20 +0200
Re: Recommendation for filesystem for USB external drive for backups local10 <local10@tutanota.com> - 2020-08-13 21:50 +0200
Re: Recommendation for filesystem for USB external drive for backups Andrei POPESCU <andreimpopescu@gmail.com> - 2020-08-14 07:30 +0200
Re: Recommendation for filesystem for USB external drive for backups David Wright <deblis@lionunicorn.co.uk> - 2020-08-14 17:40 +0200
Re: Recommendation for filesystem for USB external drive for backups Andrei POPESCU <andreimpopescu@gmail.com> - 2020-08-15 13:00 +0200
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| From | Ben Caradoc-Davies <ben@transient.nz> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2020-08-20 01:40 +0200 |
| Message-ID | <AFFQu-AK-9@gated-at.bofh.it> |
| In reply to | #226313 |
On 20/08/2020 10:08, David Christensen wrote: > On 2020-08-13 01:31, David Christensen wrote: >> Without knowing anything about your resources, needs, expectations, >> "consistent backup plan", etc., and given the choices ext2, ext3, or >> ext4 for an external USB drive presumably to store backup >> repositories, I would also pick ext4. > If you want to access the backup drive from foreign operating systems: If interoperability is a consideration, FAT32 and NTFS should also be considered. FAT32 is widely used for removable flash media but has a 4GB file size limit, no journaling, and no support for permissions. NTFS is widely used for external hard drives and has journaling and support for attributes. If you buy a consumer-grade external hard drive, it will most likely be formatted with NTFS. Backup archives (such as tar archives) can be used to preserve Linux file metadata (permissions and timestamps) on foreign filesystems. Kind regards, -- Ben Caradoc-Davies <ben@transient.nz> Director Transient Software Limited <https://transient.nz/> New Zealand
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| From | Michael Stone <mstone@debian.org> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2020-08-20 04:20 +0200 |
| Message-ID | <AFIlj-2eY-3@gated-at.bofh.it> |
| In reply to | #226314 |
On Thu, Aug 20, 2020 at 11:33:34AM +1200, Ben Caradoc-Davies wrote: >On 20/08/2020 10:08, David Christensen wrote: >>On 2020-08-13 01:31, David Christensen wrote: >>>Without knowing anything about your resources, needs, >>>expectations, "consistent backup plan", etc., and given the >>>choices ext2, ext3, or ext4 for an external USB drive presumably >>>to store backup repositories, I would also pick ext4. >>If you want to access the backup drive from foreign operating systems: > >If interoperability is a consideration, FAT32 and NTFS should also be >considered. These days exfat is the best choice. No (practical) file size limit like fat32, and more reliable across systems than ntfs.
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| From | local10 <local10@tutanota.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2020-08-13 21:50 +0200 |
| Subject | Re: Recommendation for filesystem for USB external drive for backups |
| Message-ID | <ADroB-J7-1@gated-at.bofh.it> |
| In reply to | #226151 |
Aug 13, 2020, 00:14 by rhkramer@gmail.com: > I'm getting closer to setting up a consistent backup plan, backing up to an > external USB drive. I'm wondering about a reasonable filesystem to use, I > think I want to stay in the ext2/3/4 family, and I'm wondering if there is any > good reason to use anything beyond ext2? > I've been using an external USB drive for backups for years (more specifically, a regular HDD in a USB enclosure), it works reasonably well. I use ext4. ext2 is more prone to lose stuff and become corrupted if your PC shuts down suddenly as it does not have journaling. ext3 has journaling but is a bit slower than ext4, in my experience ext4 works well and is able to recover from crashes and is a bit faster than ext3. Regards,
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| From | Andrei POPESCU <andreimpopescu@gmail.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2020-08-14 07:30 +0200 |
| Message-ID | <ADArT-6pn-1@gated-at.bofh.it> |
| In reply to | #226151 |
[Multipart message — attachments visible in raw view] — view raw
On Mi, 12 aug 20, 20:14:03, rhkramer@gmail.com wrote: > I'm getting closer to setting up a consistent backup plan, backing up to an > external USB drive. I'm wondering about a reasonable filesystem to use, I > think I want to stay in the ext2/3/4 family, and I'm wondering if there is any > good reason to use anything beyond ext2? In my opinion using ext2 in 2020 is mostly pointless, beyond the rare situation where some software doesn't support ext4 (e.g. some odd/old bootloader, other OSs, etc.). Because it is getting significantly less use support for it is also more likely to bit rot. As far as I know ext3 is mostly ext2 with journalling added. In comparison ext4 was developed from scratch with journaling and support for other newer techniques, like better allocation of space to prevent fragmentation and improve performance. > (Some day I'll try ZFS or BTRFS for my "system" filesystems, but don't see any > point (and don't want to learn) either of them at this point -- I don't see > much need for a backup filesystem.) As has been stated already, both btrfs and ZFS have built-in bitrot protections that are very useful for backups and archives. To achieve the same level of protection on ext4 you need additional tools. Kind regards, Andrei -- http://wiki.debian.org/FAQsFromDebianUser
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| From | David Wright <deblis@lionunicorn.co.uk> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2020-08-14 17:40 +0200 |
| Message-ID | <ADJYe-3FN-5@gated-at.bofh.it> |
| In reply to | #226187 |
On Fri 14 Aug 2020 at 08:25:20 (+0300), Andrei POPESCU wrote: > On Mi, 12 aug 20, 20:14:03, rhkramer@gmail.com wrote: > > I'm getting closer to setting up a consistent backup plan, backing up to an > > external USB drive. I'm wondering about a reasonable filesystem to use, I > > think I want to stay in the ext2/3/4 family, and I'm wondering if there is any > > good reason to use anything beyond ext2? > > In my opinion using ext2 in 2020 is mostly pointless, beyond the rare > situation where some software doesn't support ext4 (e.g. some odd/old > bootloader, other OSs, etc.). > > Because it is getting significantly less use support for it is also more > likely to bit rot. > > As far as I know ext3 is mostly ext2 with journalling added. > > In comparison ext4 was developed from scratch with journaling and > support for other newer techniques, like better allocation of space to > prevent fragmentation and improve performance. If you create your backup partitions on a newer distribution, just check that wheezy can mount it before you start filling it up. There are one of two options that wheezy kernels can't handle in ext4, though I don't know whether any of them get enabled by default. man ext4 for details. Ditto for any encryption scheme you might use. > > (Some day I'll try ZFS or BTRFS for my "system" filesystems, but don't see any > > point (and don't want to learn) either of them at this point -- I don't see > > much need for a backup filesystem.) > > As has been stated already, both btrfs and ZFS have built-in bitrot > protections that are very useful for backups and archives. To achieve > the same level of protection on ext4 you need additional tools. I'm dubious whether I shall ever start using these filesystems. I create multiple backups on ext4 filesystems on LUKS, and keep MD5 digests of their contents. Would that qualify as your "additional tools"? Cheers, David.
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| From | Andrei POPESCU <andreimpopescu@gmail.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2020-08-15 13:00 +0200 |
| Message-ID | <AE24N-6fo-5@gated-at.bofh.it> |
| In reply to | #226195 |
[Multipart message — attachments visible in raw view] — view raw
On Vi, 14 aug 20, 10:31:51, David Wright wrote: > > I'm dubious whether I shall ever start using these filesystems. > I create multiple backups on ext4 filesystems on LUKS, and keep > MD5 digests of their contents. Would that qualify as your > "additional tools"? Assuming you are also periodically checking that the files still produce the MD5SUMs, yes, as far as I know from playing around with btrfs and reading on it and differences to ZFS. Kind regards, Andrei -- http://wiki.debian.org/FAQsFromDebianUser
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