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Groups > linux.debian.user > #226151 > unrolled thread

Recommendation for filesystem for USB external drive for backups

Started byrhkramer@gmail.com
First post2020-08-13 02:20 +0200
Last post2020-08-15 13:00 +0200
Articles 6 on this page of 26 — 16 participants

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  Recommendation for filesystem for USB external drive for backups rhkramer@gmail.com - 2020-08-13 02:20 +0200
    Re: Recommendation for filesystem for USB external drive for backups Keith Bainbridge <keithrbaugroups@gmail.com> - 2020-08-13 02:40 +0200
    Re: Recommendation for filesystem for USB external drive for backups Ben Caradoc-Davies <ben@transient.nz> - 2020-08-13 03:00 +0200
      Re: Recommendation for filesystem for USB external drive for backups <tomas@tuxteam.de> - 2020-08-13 11:00 +0200
    Re: Recommendation for filesystem for USB external drive for backups Mark Allums <maa@allums.com> - 2020-08-13 03:20 +0200
    Re: Recommendation for filesystem for USB external drive for  backups Charles Curley <charlescurley@charlescurley.com> - 2020-08-13 05:20 +0200
      Re: Recommendation for filesystem for USB external drive for backups <tomas@tuxteam.de> - 2020-08-13 11:00 +0200
    Re: Recommendation for filesystem for USB external drive for backups David Christensen <dpchrist@holgerdanske.com> - 2020-08-13 10:40 +0200
      Re: Recommendation for filesystem for USB external drive for backups Tom Dial <tddial@comcast.net> - 2020-08-13 20:10 +0200
        Re: Recommendation for filesystem for USB external drive for backups rhkramer@gmail.com - 2020-08-13 22:00 +0200
          Re: Recommendation for filesystem for USB external drive for backups David Christensen <dpchrist@holgerdanske.com> - 2020-08-13 22:20 +0200
            Re: Recommendation for filesystem for USB external drive for backups Greg Wooledge <wooledg@eeg.ccf.org> - 2020-08-13 22:40 +0200
              Re: Recommendation for filesystem for USB external drive for backups Dan Ritter <dsr@randomstring.org> - 2020-08-13 23:00 +0200
                Re: Recommendation for filesystem for USB external drive for backups ghe2001 <ghe2001@protonmail.com> - 2020-08-13 23:40 +0200
                  Re: Recommendation for filesystem for USB external drive for backups Jonathan Dowland <jon+debian-user@dow.land> - 2020-08-14 11:40 +0200
                    Re: Recommendation for filesystem for USB external drive for backups <tomas@tuxteam.de> - 2020-08-14 12:00 +0200
            Re: Recommendation for filesystem for USB external drive for backups rhkramer@gmail.com - 2020-08-14 03:30 +0200
              Re: Recommendation for filesystem for USB external drive for backups David Christensen <dpchrist@holgerdanske.com> - 2020-08-14 07:10 +0200
          Re: Recommendation for filesystem for USB external drive for backups Tom Dial <tddial@comcast.net> - 2020-08-14 04:50 +0200
      Re: Recommendation for filesystem for USB external drive for backups David Christensen <dpchrist@holgerdanske.com> - 2020-08-20 00:10 +0200
        Re: Recommendation for filesystem for USB external drive for backups Ben Caradoc-Davies <ben@transient.nz> - 2020-08-20 01:40 +0200
          Re: Recommendation for filesystem for USB external drive for backups Michael Stone <mstone@debian.org> - 2020-08-20 04:20 +0200
    Re: Recommendation for filesystem for USB external drive for  backups local10 <local10@tutanota.com> - 2020-08-13 21:50 +0200
    Re: Recommendation for filesystem for USB external drive for backups Andrei POPESCU <andreimpopescu@gmail.com> - 2020-08-14 07:30 +0200
      Re: Recommendation for filesystem for USB external drive for backups David Wright <deblis@lionunicorn.co.uk> - 2020-08-14 17:40 +0200
        Re: Recommendation for filesystem for USB external drive for backups Andrei POPESCU <andreimpopescu@gmail.com> - 2020-08-15 13:00 +0200

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#226314

FromBen Caradoc-Davies <ben@transient.nz>
Date2020-08-20 01:40 +0200
Message-ID<AFFQu-AK-9@gated-at.bofh.it>
In reply to#226313
On 20/08/2020 10:08, David Christensen wrote:
> On 2020-08-13 01:31, David Christensen wrote:
>> Without knowing anything about your resources, needs, expectations, 
>> "consistent backup plan", etc., and given the choices ext2, ext3, or 
>> ext4 for an external USB drive presumably to store backup 
>> repositories, I would also pick ext4.
> If you want to access the backup drive from foreign operating systems:

If interoperability is a consideration, FAT32 and NTFS should also be 
considered. FAT32 is widely used for removable flash media but has a 4GB 
file size limit, no journaling, and no support for permissions. NTFS is 
widely used for external hard drives and has journaling and support for 
attributes. If you buy a consumer-grade external hard drive, it will 
most likely be formatted with NTFS. Backup archives (such as tar 
archives) can be used to preserve Linux file metadata (permissions and 
timestamps) on foreign filesystems.

Kind regards,

-- 
Ben Caradoc-Davies <ben@transient.nz>
Director
Transient Software Limited <https://transient.nz/>
New Zealand

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#226315

FromMichael Stone <mstone@debian.org>
Date2020-08-20 04:20 +0200
Message-ID<AFIlj-2eY-3@gated-at.bofh.it>
In reply to#226314
On Thu, Aug 20, 2020 at 11:33:34AM +1200, Ben Caradoc-Davies wrote:
>On 20/08/2020 10:08, David Christensen wrote:
>>On 2020-08-13 01:31, David Christensen wrote:
>>>Without knowing anything about your resources, needs, 
>>>expectations, "consistent backup plan", etc., and given the 
>>>choices ext2, ext3, or ext4 for an external USB drive presumably 
>>>to store backup repositories, I would also pick ext4.
>>If you want to access the backup drive from foreign operating systems:
>
>If interoperability is a consideration, FAT32 and NTFS should also be 
>considered. 

These days exfat is the best choice. No (practical) file size limit like 
fat32, and more reliable across systems than ntfs.

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#226173 — Re: Recommendation for filesystem for USB external drive for backups

Fromlocal10 <local10@tutanota.com>
Date2020-08-13 21:50 +0200
SubjectRe: Recommendation for filesystem for USB external drive for backups
Message-ID<ADroB-J7-1@gated-at.bofh.it>
In reply to#226151
Aug 13, 2020, 00:14 by rhkramer@gmail.com:

> I'm getting closer to setting up a consistent backup plan, backing up to an 
> external USB drive.  I'm wondering about a reasonable filesystem to use, I 
> think I want to stay in the ext2/3/4 family, and I'm wondering if there is any 
> good reason to use anything beyond ext2?
>

I've been using an external USB drive for backups for years (more specifically, a regular HDD in a USB enclosure), it works reasonably well. I use ext4.

ext2 is more prone to lose stuff and become corrupted if your PC shuts down suddenly as it does not have journaling.
ext3 has journaling but is a bit slower than ext4, in my experience
ext4 works well and is able to recover from crashes and is a bit faster than ext3.

Regards,

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#226187

FromAndrei POPESCU <andreimpopescu@gmail.com>
Date2020-08-14 07:30 +0200
Message-ID<ADArT-6pn-1@gated-at.bofh.it>
In reply to#226151

[Multipart message — attachments visible in raw view] — view raw

On Mi, 12 aug 20, 20:14:03, rhkramer@gmail.com wrote:
> I'm getting closer to setting up a consistent backup plan, backing up to an 
> external USB drive.  I'm wondering about a reasonable filesystem to use, I 
> think I want to stay in the ext2/3/4 family, and I'm wondering if there is any 
> good reason to use anything beyond ext2?
 
In my opinion using ext2 in 2020 is mostly pointless, beyond the rare 
situation where some software doesn't support ext4 (e.g. some odd/old 
bootloader, other OSs, etc.).

Because it is getting significantly less use support for it is also more 
likely to bit rot.

As far as I know ext3 is mostly ext2 with journalling added.

In comparison ext4 was developed from scratch with journaling and 
support for other newer techniques, like better allocation of space to 
prevent fragmentation and improve performance.

> (Some day I'll try ZFS or BTRFS for my "system" filesystems, but don't see any 
> point (and don't want to learn) either of them at this point -- I don't see 
> much need for a backup filesystem.)

As has been stated already, both btrfs and ZFS have built-in bitrot 
protections that are very useful for backups and archives. To achieve 
the same level of protection on ext4 you need additional tools.

Kind regards,
Andrei
-- 
http://wiki.debian.org/FAQsFromDebianUser

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#226195

FromDavid Wright <deblis@lionunicorn.co.uk>
Date2020-08-14 17:40 +0200
Message-ID<ADJYe-3FN-5@gated-at.bofh.it>
In reply to#226187
On Fri 14 Aug 2020 at 08:25:20 (+0300), Andrei POPESCU wrote:
> On Mi, 12 aug 20, 20:14:03, rhkramer@gmail.com wrote:
> > I'm getting closer to setting up a consistent backup plan, backing up to an 
> > external USB drive.  I'm wondering about a reasonable filesystem to use, I 
> > think I want to stay in the ext2/3/4 family, and I'm wondering if there is any 
> > good reason to use anything beyond ext2?
>  
> In my opinion using ext2 in 2020 is mostly pointless, beyond the rare 
> situation where some software doesn't support ext4 (e.g. some odd/old 
> bootloader, other OSs, etc.).
> 
> Because it is getting significantly less use support for it is also more 
> likely to bit rot.
> 
> As far as I know ext3 is mostly ext2 with journalling added.
> 
> In comparison ext4 was developed from scratch with journaling and 
> support for other newer techniques, like better allocation of space to 
> prevent fragmentation and improve performance.

If you create your backup partitions on a newer distribution,
just check that wheezy can mount it before you start filling
it up. There are one of two options that wheezy kernels can't handle
in ext4, though I don't know whether any of them get enabled by
default. man ext4 for details.
Ditto for any encryption scheme you might use.

> > (Some day I'll try ZFS or BTRFS for my "system" filesystems, but don't see any 
> > point (and don't want to learn) either of them at this point -- I don't see 
> > much need for a backup filesystem.)
> 
> As has been stated already, both btrfs and ZFS have built-in bitrot 
> protections that are very useful for backups and archives. To achieve 
> the same level of protection on ext4 you need additional tools.

I'm dubious whether I shall ever start using these filesystems.
I create multiple backups on ext4 filesystems on LUKS, and keep
MD5 digests of their contents. Would that qualify as your
"additional tools"?

Cheers,
David.

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#226199

FromAndrei POPESCU <andreimpopescu@gmail.com>
Date2020-08-15 13:00 +0200
Message-ID<AE24N-6fo-5@gated-at.bofh.it>
In reply to#226195

[Multipart message — attachments visible in raw view] — view raw

On Vi, 14 aug 20, 10:31:51, David Wright wrote:
> 
> I'm dubious whether I shall ever start using these filesystems.
> I create multiple backups on ext4 filesystems on LUKS, and keep
> MD5 digests of their contents. Would that qualify as your
> "additional tools"?

Assuming you are also periodically checking that the files still produce 
the MD5SUMs, yes, as far as I know from playing around with btrfs and 
reading on it and differences to ZFS.

Kind regards,
Andrei
-- 
http://wiki.debian.org/FAQsFromDebianUser

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