Groups | Search | Server Info | Keyboard shortcuts | Login | Register [http] [https] [nntp] [nntps]

Groups > linux.debian.user > #225533 > unrolled thread

BIOS time fine, Linux/Debian's isn't! ...

Back to article view | Back to linux.debian.user

Contents

  BIOS time fine, Linux/Debian's isn't! ... Albretch Mueller <lbrtchx@gmail.com> - 2020-07-30 13:20 +0200
    Re: BIOS time fine, Linux/Debian's isn't! ... Andrew Cater <amacater@gmail.com> - 2020-07-30 14:00 +0200
    Re: BIOS time fine, Linux/Debian's isn't! ... Brad Rogers <brad@fineby.me.uk> - 2020-07-30 14:10 +0200
      Re: BIOS time fine, Linux/Debian's isn't! ... Anssi Saari <as@sci.fi> - 2020-07-30 16:10 +0200
        Re: BIOS time fine, Linux/Debian's isn't! ... <tomas@tuxteam.de> - 2020-07-30 16:20 +0200
        Re: BIOS time fine, Linux/Debian's isn't! ... Brad Rogers <brad@fineby.me.uk> - 2020-07-30 17:00 +0200
          Re: BIOS time fine, Linux/Debian's isn't! ... <tomas@tuxteam.de> - 2020-07-30 18:00 +0200
            Re: BIOS time fine, Linux/Debian's isn't! ... Brad Rogers <brad@fineby.me.uk> - 2020-07-30 18:20 +0200
              Re: BIOS time fine, Linux/Debian's isn't! ... Andrei POPESCU <andreimpopescu@gmail.com> - 2020-07-31 08:00 +0200
                Signature [was: BIOS time fine, Linux/Debian's isn't! ...] <tomas@tuxteam.de> - 2020-07-31 11:30 +0200
                  Re: Signature [was: BIOS time fine, Linux/Debian's isn't! ...] Brad Rogers <brad@fineby.me.uk> - 2020-07-31 12:00 +0200
                    Re: Signature [was: BIOS time fine, Linux/Debian's isn't! ...] Greg Wooledge <wooledg@eeg.ccf.org> - 2020-07-31 13:50 +0200
                      Re: Signature [was: BIOS time fine, Linux/Debian's isn't! ...] Reco <recoverym4n@enotuniq.net> - 2020-07-31 14:40 +0200
                        Re: Signature [was: BIOS time fine, Linux/Debian's isn't! ...] The Wanderer <wanderer@fastmail.fm> - 2020-07-31 14:50 +0200
                          Re: Signature [was: BIOS time fine, Linux/Debian's isn't! ...] Reco <recoverym4n@enotuniq.net> - 2020-07-31 17:00 +0200
                            Re: Signature [was: BIOS time fine, Linux/Debian's isn't! ...] The Wanderer <wanderer@fastmail.fm> - 2020-07-31 18:10 +0200
                  Re: Signature [was: BIOS time fine, Linux/Debian's isn't! ...] The Wanderer <wanderer@fastmail.fm> - 2020-07-31 13:20 +0200
                  Tomas has a signature which isn't a .sig Dan Ritter <dsr@randomstring.org> - 2020-07-31 17:50 +0200
                    Re: [OT] Lisp is back (was: Tomas has a signature which isn't a .sig) Reco <recoverym4n@enotuniq.net> - 2020-07-31 18:00 +0200
                      Re: [OT] Lisp is back Teemu Likonen <tlikonen@iki.fi> - 2020-07-31 18:30 +0200
                    Re: Tomas has a signature which isn't a .sig tomas@tuxteam.de - 2020-07-31 21:10 +0200
                      Re: Tomas has a signature which isn't a .sig The Wanderer <wanderer@fastmail.fm> - 2020-07-31 21:30 +0200
                        Re: Tomas has a signature which isn't a .sig Brian <ad44@cityscape.co.uk> - 2020-07-31 21:40 +0200
                      Re: Tomas has a signature which isn't a .sig Brian <ad44@cityscape.co.uk> - 2020-07-31 21:30 +0200
                        Re: Tomas has a signature which isn't a .sig <tomas@tuxteam.de> - 2020-07-31 21:50 +0200
                        Re: Tomas has a signature which isn't a .sig Charles Curley <charlescurley@charlescurley.com> - 2020-07-31 22:00 +0200
                Signature [was: BIOS time fine, Linux/Debian's isn't! ...] <tomas@tuxteam.de> - 2020-07-31 12:00 +0200
                Re: BIOS time fine, Linux/Debian's isn't! ... Brad Rogers <brad@fineby.me.uk> - 2020-07-31 12:00 +0200
                  Signature not working rhkramer@gmail.com - 2020-07-31 13:20 +0200
                    Re: Signature not working rhkramer@gmail.com - 2020-07-31 13:30 +0200
                    Re: Signature not working The Wanderer <wanderer@fastmail.fm> - 2020-07-31 13:30 +0200
                    Re: Signature not working Brad Rogers <brad@fineby.me.uk> - 2020-07-31 13:40 +0200
                      Re: Signature not working Stefan Monnier <monnier@iro.umontreal.ca> - 2020-07-31 15:00 +0200
                        Re: Signature not working Brad Rogers <brad@fineby.me.uk> - 2020-07-31 16:00 +0200
                          Re: Signature not working Brad Rogers <brad@fineby.me.uk> - 2020-07-31 17:10 +0200
                            Re: Signature not working Stefan Monnier <monnier@iro.umontreal.ca> - 2020-07-31 17:40 +0200
                              Re: Signature not working The Wanderer <wanderer@fastmail.fm> - 2020-07-31 18:10 +0200
                                Re: Signature not working Stefan Monnier <monnier@iro.umontreal.ca> - 2020-07-31 19:00 +0200
                            Re: Signature not working David Wright <deblis@lionunicorn.co.uk> - 2020-07-31 17:40 +0200
                              Re: Signature not working Brad Rogers <brad@fineby.me.uk> - 2020-07-31 18:00 +0200
                              Re: Signature not working The Wanderer <wanderer@fastmail.fm> - 2020-07-31 18:10 +0200
                                Re: Signature not working David Wright <deblis@lionunicorn.co.uk> - 2020-08-01 05:50 +0200
                                  Re: Signature not working Stefan Monnier <monnier@iro.umontreal.ca> - 2020-08-03 06:10 +0200
                          Re: Signature not working Reco <recoverym4n@enotuniq.net> - 2020-07-31 17:10 +0200
                          Re: Signature not working Stefan Monnier <monnier@iro.umontreal.ca> - 2020-07-31 17:30 +0200
    Re: BIOS time fine, Linux/Debian's isn't! ... Cindy Sue Causey <butterflybytes@gmail.com> - 2020-07-30 14:10 +0200
    Re: BIOS time fine, Linux/Debian's isn't! ... <tomas@tuxteam.de> - 2020-07-30 16:10 +0200
    Re: BIOS time fine, Linux/Debian's isn't! ... Albretch Mueller <lbrtchx@gmail.com> - 2020-07-31 14:00 +0200
      Re: BIOS time fine, Linux/Debian's isn't! ... <tomas@tuxteam.de> - 2020-07-31 15:20 +0200
        Re: BIOS time fine, Linux/Debian's isn't! ... Albretch Mueller <lbrtchx@gmail.com> - 2020-08-08 16:20 +0200
          Re: BIOS time fine, Linux/Debian's isn't! ... Andrew Cater <amacater@gmail.com> - 2020-08-08 16:40 +0200
            Re: BIOS time fine, Linux/Debian's isn't! ... Andrei POPESCU <andreimpopescu@gmail.com> - 2020-08-11 13:10 +0200

Page 3 of 3 — ← Prev page 1 2 [3]

#225634 — Re: Signature not working

[Multipart message — attachments visible in raw view] — view raw

On 2020-07-31 at 11:29, David Wright wrote:

> On Fri 31 Jul 2020 at 16:07:29 (+0100), Brad Rogers wrote:

>> The Wanderer couched his response to that far more politely than I would
>> have done.
> 
> That might be because The Wanderer was responding to some information
> in Reco's post. It was much more informative than "It doesn't work."

I think that he might have been referring to another of my replies -
most likely either the one timestamped 07:24 EST, or the one timestamped
07:17 EST, both from today.

The "that" he was referring to, from context, appears to be Tomas' reply
which boiled down to "no, I won't stop doing this", and to which my
07:17 mail was a reply.

-- 
   The Wanderer

The reasonable man adapts himself to the world; the unreasonable one
persists in trying to adapt the world to himself. Therefore all
progress depends on the unreasonable man.         -- George Bernard Shaw

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#225672 — Re: Signature not working

On Fri 31 Jul 2020 at 12:07:14 (-0400), The Wanderer wrote:
> On 2020-07-31 at 11:29, David Wright wrote:
> > On Fri 31 Jul 2020 at 16:07:29 (+0100), Brad Rogers wrote:
> 
> >> The Wanderer couched his response to that far more politely than I would
> >> have done.
> > 
> > That might be because The Wanderer was responding to some information
> > in Reco's post. It was much more informative than "It doesn't work."
> 
> I think that he might have been referring to another of my replies -
> most likely either the one timestamped 07:24 EST, or the one timestamped
> 07:17 EST, both from today.
> 
> The "that" he was referring to, from context, appears to be Tomas' reply
> which boiled down to "no, I won't stop doing this", and to which my
> 07:17 mail was a reply.

You're probably right. But by then I'd read other responses, and
"It doesn't work" was the shortest, and as uninformative as any.

On Fri 31 Jul 2020 at 12:03:56 (-0400), The Wanderer wrote:
> On 2020-07-31 at 11:30, Stefan Monnier wrote:
> 
> >> I can read everything fine.  Nothing gets trashed, but things that
> >> one expects to happen (non quoting of text after a valid sig
> >> separator) because Tomas has DELIBERATELY, broken his, don't
> >> occur.
> > 
> > I don't see any text following his `-- t`. What text do you see after
> > `-- t` that you think should be hidden?
> 
> In a properly compliant situation, the '-- t' itself would be omitted
> when replying to the message, because it is (part or all of) the
> signature block and not actually anything that will need to be
> responded to.
> 
> To be honest, I rather suspect you already understood that.

I was perplexed by two things. The first was that anyone would think
-- t was a sig-sep, because a sig-sep is "Hyphen Hyphen Space Newline",
and the second was that I couldn't think of any particularly bad
effects that the -- t would cause.

After all, if it's *not* recognised as a sig-sep, then -- t becomes
merely the last line of the message (wasn't that its intention?),
and if it *is* misinterpreted as a sig-sep, then anything after it
gets treated as a signature. Is that terrible? IDK. We're just told
it's "broken", "doesn't work", and "fails completely", rather than
being informed of which client produces what symptoms.

Cheers,
David.

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#225766 — Re: Signature not working

> I was perplexed by two things. The first was that anyone would think
> -- t was a sig-sep, because a sig-sep is "Hyphen Hyphen Space Newline",
> and the second was that I couldn't think of any particularly bad
> effects that the -- t would cause.
>
> After all, if it's *not* recognised as a sig-sep, then -- t becomes
> merely the last line of the message (wasn't that its intention?),
> and if it *is* misinterpreted as a sig-sep, then anything after it
> gets treated as a signature. Is that terrible? IDK. We're just told
> it's "broken", "doesn't work", and "fails completely", rather than
> being informed of which client produces what symptoms.

+1

I tried to ask these very questions but so far haven't seen any answers,
so I'm still convinced that the complains are the result of a confusion.


        Stefan

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#225625 — Re: Signature not working

On Fri, Jul 31, 2020 at 02:50:00PM +0100, Brad Rogers wrote:
> >Then you're confused: his `-- t` is perfectly normal and valid (just as
> 
> No, I'm not confused.  '-- t' is NOT a valid sig separator.

I agree. But it's a valid part of a e-mail body, and any MUA that
mishandles that is broken in this regard.

Reco

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#225627 — Re: Signature not working

>>Then you're confused: his `-- t` is perfectly normal and valid (just as
> No, I'm not confused.  '-- t' is NOT a valid sig separator.

Indeed it's not, and that's OK because Tomas doesn't use it as
a "signature separator" (the thing that should be `-- \n`), but just as
the last line of text in his email, which stands more or less for
his name.

There are 3 separate notions of signature here at play:
A) the `-- \n` notion of signature taken from ~/.signature.
B) the non-computer-related notion of someone adding his name at the
   end of his text
C) the cryptographic data meant to prove authenticity.

Tomas means his `-- t` to be of the (B) category (just like my `-nStefan`
below), and according to the RFCs with which I'm familiar it does indeed
correctly fall into the (B) category.

IIUC you think it was meant to be in the (A) category, but I have no
idea what makes you think so.


        Stefan

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#225539

On 7/30/20, Albretch Mueller <lbrtchx@gmail.com> wrote:
>  I used the same laptop with another hard drive with a Windows
> installation which shows the time correctly.
>
>  How do you make Linux get the time from the BIOS at start time and
> take it from there?


While you're waiting for others to chime in, this is what I do k/t
debootstrap'ing on regular occasion. One of the very first steps in
the debootstrap process is to:

# editor /etc/adjtime

Then fill it with these three lines:

0.0 0 0.0

0
UTC

After that, the next (terminal command line) step is:

# dpkg-reconfigure tzdata

Where we pick from those first choices and then next the more
localized spot that echoes our own local times. When the second step
completes, the feedback I receive looks like this:

Current default time zone: 'America/New_York'
Local time is now:      Thu Jul 30 07:27:23 EDT 2020.
Universal Time is now:  Thu Jul 30 11:27:23 UTC 2020.

Just learned something new myself here after all this time. If I page
down on that second screen (which I NEVER do), it offers "US" as an
alternative to "America". When dpkg-reconfigure completes with that
option selected, the slightly altered feedback says this instead:

Current default time zone: 'US/Eastern'

There may be some professional, universal benefit to using one of
those versus the other so there they are. Right offhand, I can see
where more people around the globe might recognize the geographical
location of New York a lot easier than they might be able to
distinguish between the United States' usage of Eastern and Central
time zones, etc. :)

Hope that helps someone out here. Have fun!

Cindy :)
-- 
Cindy-Sue Causey
Talking Rock, Pickens County, Georgia, USA

* runs with birdseed *

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#225550

[Multipart message — attachments visible in raw view] — view raw

On Thu, Jul 30, 2020 at 07:19:12AM -0400, Albretch Mueller wrote:
>  I used the same laptop with another hard drive with a Windows
> installation which shows the time correctly.
> 
>  How do you make Linux get the time from the BIOS at start time and
> take it from there?

Your posts are sometimes nearly... whimsical.

By how much is "Debian time" off? In what timezone do you live?

Background (as another poster has already hinted at in this thread):
Windows is totally naive wrt time: it expects the BIOS clock to
reflect the local time (DST included). Therefore, the BIOS clock
has to be massaged twice a year (if your timezone does the DST
thing).

There is a way to tell hwclock to interpret the BIOS clock at boot
time: you set HWCLOCKPARS in /etc/default/hwclock (CAVEAT: UNTESTED!)
like so:

HWCLOCKPARS=-l

("-l" is for "local", the default being "-u" for UTC). In the default
config file, this line is commented out with a '#' at the beginning;
make sure to remove that.

Should HWCLOCKPARS be set to something, just add the "-l" at the end,
separated by some whitespace.

Note that this localtime thing is discouraged, there are some ways
for it to go wrong (notably, local times are ambiguous in the Spring
change).

Microsoft and time. They didn't miss any opportunity to get it wrong.
Each time.

Cheers
-- t

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#225609

 OK, I will studz and try the manz options you have explain to me.

> Your posts are sometimes nearly... whimsical.

 Many of you have tell me such things, "you should know that ... "
"why do you even ask if it is so easz to find the answer on the
Internet?" ...

 Posts are not "whimsical" per se, what makes it so if the impedance
in the assumptions framed by your background and someone else s
conditions/reality. Like right now i have to type using two keyboards
...

 I am in Germany right now living in a half way house without access
to the Internet ... (you donät want to know more ;-))

 Also, the kinds of problems I work on (corpora research of free text)
are kind of demanding, zou cant "solve" such problems nicely with OOP
and such paradigms, because zou cant model text with DAGs .

 lbrtchx

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#225617

[Multipart message — attachments visible in raw view] — view raw

On Fri, Jul 31, 2020 at 01:56:10PM +0200, Albretch Mueller wrote:
>  OK, I will studz and try the manz options you have explain to me.
> 
> > Your posts are sometimes nearly... whimsical.
> 
>  Many of you have tell me such things, "you should know that ... "
> "why do you even ask if it is so easz to find the answer on the
> Internet?" ...

Don't take it personally. It was just a short form of "I'm unsure
whether I have managed to interpret your meaning correctly, so
please watch out for the possibility that I got that totally wrong"
or something like that.

So please understand that rather as "I'm not sure I've managed to
decode you correctly, so watch out and help, please".

>  Posts are not "whimsical" per se, what makes it so if the impedance
> in the assumptions framed by your background and someone else s
> conditions/reality. Like right now i have to type using two keyboards
> ...

Definitely. I was just stating my impression, which has as much to
do with me as with you as with the medium in-between. That said,
of course "Your posts are ... whimsical" sounds much more absolute
than it was meant to.

>  I am in Germany right now living in a half way house without access
> to the Internet ... (you donät want to know more ;-))

Ah, that sound äxciting :)

>  Also, the kinds of problems I work on (corpora research of free text)
> are kind of demanding, zou cant "solve" such problems nicely with OOP
> and such paradigms, because zou cant model text with DAGs .

That sounds even more exciting. Confusion networks?

Cheers
-- t

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#226012

 On the installer it says:

 Configure clock: if the desired time zone is not listed ...

 Select your time zone:

 https://manjaro.site/step-by-step-install-debian-9-0-netinstall-version/install-debian-9-0-configure-clock/

 but why can't you set up your computer as US English and be, say, in
the Ukraine with the time from there?

 lbrtchx

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#226014

[Multipart message — attachments visible in raw view] — view raw

Hi Albretch,

If I'm reading your question correctly:

Why can't you set the locale for one country, the timezone for a second,
the keyboard for a third?

You can. As root or equivalent, you can reset timezone with

dpkg-reconfigure -plow tzdata

[That's the dpkg-reconfigure command, -plow to force asking low priority
questions rather than taking the default answers, and tzdata being the file
that sets the timezone.]

dpkg-reconfigure -plow console-setup

[dpkg-reconfigure -plow and then the console-setup program. That might not
be installed by default, so you might have to apt-get / apt install
console-setup which will reset the keyboard layout that you see in a
terminal - UTF-8 is usually a good choice to start with.]

dpkg-reconfigure -plow locales

will set the system wide language and spelling defaults etc. using the
locales package and allow you to switch between locales

If you want to be asked all the questions at low priority during the
install, consider using the expert install method which will ask _all_ the
questions that a standard install sets automatically - if you set your
locale to British English during the install, it will provide
England/London or GMT as options for timezone and your keyboard to British
UK layout, for example.

Live well

Andy C.

On Sat, Aug 8, 2020 at 2:12 PM Albretch Mueller <lbrtchx@gmail.com> wrote:

>  On the installer it says:
>
>  Configure clock: if the desired time zone is not listed ...
>
>  Select your time zone:
>
>
> https://manjaro.site/step-by-step-install-debian-9-0-netinstall-version/install-debian-9-0-configure-clock/
>
>  but why can't you set up your computer as US English and be, say, in
> the Ukraine with the time from there?
>
>  lbrtchx
>
>

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#226106

[Multipart message — attachments visible in raw view] — view raw

On Sb, 08 aug 20, 14:38:30, Andrew Cater wrote:
> 
> dpkg-reconfigure -plow tzdata
> 
> [That's the dpkg-reconfigure command, -plow to force asking low priority
> questions rather than taking the default answers, and tzdata being the file
> that sets the timezone.]

As the manpage states, dpkg-reconfigure is using priority low by 
default. Saves a few keystrokes ;)

Kind regards,
Andrei
-- 
http://wiki.debian.org/FAQsFromDebianUser

[toc] | [prev] | [standalone]

Page 3 of 3 — ← Prev page 1 2 [3]

Back to top | Article view | linux.debian.user

csiph-web